Barack Obama is not "Black." Please make a note of it.

[PBS Poll-435]

Black? WTF ? I am so sick of the divisive definitions.

Barack Obama represents America. He represents what can happen here.

160 years ago "Irish" would have been a worse descriptor.

He is the next President of the United States of America.

He was the first person of "color" to head the Harvard Law Review.

He worked with people that most would shun.

He went to the Illinois Senate knowing how the damned thing worked.

Barack Obama is the quentissntial American. He comes from an interesting background. He knows where he came from, and he knows what he can do.

Do you really want to label people?

[BlooInBloo]

1. I don't know why some white folks are so scared of him being black....

Oh wait - yah I do.

[PBS Poll-435]

2. Why?

I am excited!

[BluegrassDem]

3. Uhh...he considers himself black and that's good enough for me

And besides, being black is not something to be ashamed of, so I'm not sure where you're coming from on this. Our society, and the world for that matter, see him as a black man. As he said once, when he tries to hail a cab in NYC, they see him as a black man. Good enough for me.

[PBS Poll-435]

4. Absolutely

My point was that Senator Barack Obama is more than just a ***** politician from Chicago.

[EffieBlack]

37. BIngo!!!

[The Traveler]

5. It has been well established that he is Black Irish

which, of course, makes him invincible. :) Erin Gobama, baby.

Trav

[PBS Poll-435]

6. Hehe

Nah, he is an American Man who knows what to do.

[The Traveler]

9. That is just it ... an American man

and one of the finest.

Trav

[PBS Poll-435]

15. Absolutely

I can not freaking wait until November.

[jcla]

16. Dear Trav

My son wears his "Kiss Me! I'm Black Irish" Button on St. Paddy's Day! Love it! We all mongrels anyway! Hurray for us mutts! We'll just celebrate a little harder when Obama, the right person for president, wins!

[Bluebear]

7. What on earth is wrong with him being identified as black?

Shirley Chisholm was black.
Barbara Jordan was black.
Dr. King was black.

I don't consider the term divisive but maybe that's just me.

[redstate_democrat]

8. I'm trying to figure out what is so wrong about being black that made the OP say this

Um, yes, Obama is black or he "looks black", which is the same damn thing in America. So what? If people can't deal with that, simply claiming he is NOT black is not going to change anything. People ain't blind.

[Bluebear]

10. When Obama wins, are we not to give this to the people of color to celebrate?

Of all of a sudden he will be colorless, not setting a precedent?

[The Traveler]

12. I am not giving this to people of color to celebrate

I will, however, be right in there with them celebrating my ass off!

[PBS Poll-435]

13. We will definitely give people of color reason to celebrate on 11/4

The point of the OP was that the Democratic Party nominee is so much more that a label.

[Balderdash]

54. Why can't we all celebrate?

Yes he's half black and he looks black but he is also half white and he is a Democrat and a ex-smoker and a lawyer and a Senator and so many other labels we could use. I don't care what color he is, he beats the hell out of who the Republicans have to offer for President.

[goodgd_yall]

65. It's a BIG DEAL to elect an African-American president

I don't see why we have to diminish the fact that black Americans, in particular, will have something to celebrate. And the rest of us can look on with awe that this has happened in America where 40 years earlier we were blasting civil rights demonstrators with high-pressure hoses.

[Bluebear]

74. Thank you.

[Balderdash]

102. I never blasted anyone with a hose!

I was too young to go and march but I sure wanted to. But you're probably right all of us white folks who have voted and marched and did what we could do to help will just sit at home and watch the celebration.

[The Traveler]

11. This race stuff just screws people up

It is better not to even play with that. Obama is the right man for the job, right now. Nuff said.

[PBS Poll-435]

14. I agree. And I am very tired of the pre-emptive excuses

We are going to win.

Any more excuses as to why we may not, :puke:

Oh yeah, ... FUCK Ron Fornier.

[FrenchieCat]

18. The media is doing its job to keep Americans divided.

If they didn't do it, who would.

That's the sad truth.....that our media, just like it was complicit in taking us to war, complicit in pushing George Bush upon us, so it is also complicit in keeping "race" as an issue in this contest and in this country. Some folks might even forget what color Barack was, if it wasn't for Ron non accomplished asshole Fournier and his ilk that felt compeled to remind us.

[PBS Poll-435]

19. FC, you freaking rock

You got what I was trying to say.

The American Media is the fucking star witness to the theft/rape/murder of the last eight years.

I don't believe a freaking thing they say anymore. Anything. If they said, in my town, that it was going to be 80 degrees and partly cloudy, I would reach for my parka.

[FrenchieCat]

20. Well, you read this, right?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7134202


Like Colin Powell stated today on CNN in that SOS special...when asked if he was "proud" of Barack because he was an African American. Powell simply responded.....I'm an American.

Folks started clapping wildly.

See that's the problem. Somehow, Black folks have to be Black first.....while everyone else can just be who they are. That's not them doing that....it is folks like Ron Fournier, that incredible ugly imp.

Ron Fournier deserves to be fired.

[PBS Poll-435]

21. As far as I am concerned, Sec. Powell has no credibility

And I am sick of him being the representative of anyone.

[FrenchieCat]

22. That's not my point.

My point was what he said in that program today, not who he is so much.

It would be like someone deciding for me that being Black was more prominent for me than being French, or being a woman, or being a wife and mother, etc....

Who are they to believe that this is their jobs?

Anyways, I'm staying up emailing that article that I gave you the link to reporters who's email addresses I have.

If you want, you can write to them too.

Josh Marshall [email protected]
Andrew Sullivan [email protected]
Mark Ambinder [email protected]
Keith Olberman [email protected]
Rachel Maddow [email protected]
Eugene Robinson [email protected]
Frank Rich [email protected]
E.J. Dionne [email protected]
Ed Schultz [email protected]
Randi Rhodes [email protected]
Stephanie Miller [email protected]
Thom Hartmann [email protected]
Mike Malloy [email protected]
Steve Clemons [email protected]
Bob Herbert [email protected]
Joe Klein http://www.time.com/time/letters/email_let...
Howard Fineman [email protected]
David Remnick (the New Yorker) [email protected]
The New York Times Editors [email protected]
The Washington Post www.washingtonpost.com

[Chan790]

33. I write my letters to Fournier's bosses weekly...

asking that they fire him and pointing out what a friggin' hack he really is. I'm not making a dent yet but if I keep at it for another 5 years or so, I expect a cease-and-desist letter eventually.

[Balderdash]

103. Right on!

I'd rather view people for "content of their character than the color of their skin."

[FloridaGrl]

32. I'm trying to figure it out myself

n/t

[PBS Poll-435]

17. Nothing is or ever will be wrong with being identified as a "Black-American."

I apologize for trying to make a point about this election.

[goodgd_yall]

66. Maybe you made your point unclearly

If you meant to criticize the media, it wasn't apparent.

[BlooInBloo]

57. To the OP, being black is a bad thing, a negative that needs to be spun away.

[progressivebydesign]

59. I think the OP was frustrated with people who use that term to discount him..

Like the folks who are saying they can't vote for him because he's "Black". And I think I see what the OP was trying to say.. that Obama is many things, he's half Irish (hell, he's more Irish than I am and I've got blue eyes and blonde hair). I think they're trying to say that he's being dismissed by some as a "black guy" when instead he's a wonderful representation of America's melting pot.

That's my take on it. If someone tells me that they can't vote for him cuz he's black, I'll ask them how they'd vote if he'd physically favored his Mother's side of the family. We would not be having this conversation, had he taken on those traits.. Sadly.

[Orsino]

60. Well, it is an oversimplification.

I think his mixed heritage makes him look more like America than any other president ever has. Unfortunately, there are plenty of people who will use the "black" label as an excuse to write him off.

[EffieBlack]

69. The way to deal with that is to continue to demonstrate

to such people why being black is not a bad thing, not try to avoid the label. It reminds me of how liberals allowed the Republicans to cow us into running away from being called liberal.

[Orsino]

72. ...and to demonstrate that "black" and "white" are not mutually exclusive...

...and that Obama is both and neither. There are so many people of mixed ancestry in our country, and these folks shouldn't remain invisible.

[EffieBlack]

76. I don't agree . . .

Obama is no more "both" or "neither" black or white than any other black American.

Frankly, the notion that black people must somehow "transcend" race in order to be accepted by whites and the assumption that if they are accepted by whites it is proof that they have indeed successfully "transcended."

White people are NEVER excpected to "TRANSCEND" their whiteness. It they are accepted and respected by black people, it's simply because they earned it, not because they managed to shed their whiteness.

IMV, this is part of the continuing strains of white entitlement that still permeate our culture. White people are considered the norm while anything that is different is a deviation from the norm. Black fols are welcome into the white enclave, but they must first shed their blackness at the door in order to be accepted among white people, who have to shed nothing.

Example: why is it that the fact that 95 percent of black people support Obama is considered suspect and race-based? Because it deviates from the percentage of white people supporting him. It doesn't seem to occur to anyone that maybe the 95 percent support among blacks should be the norm and it is white voters who are behaving oddly by supporting him in smaller numbers. This possibility hasn't even been considered - instead black voters are treated as a little off-kilter solely because their voting numbers differ from that of whites.

[Orsino]

80. I may not be able to agree with you on this.

It is true, I'm sure, that Obama's Caucasian heritage doesn't come with the requisite white privilege attached, but but his unusual descent is helping him (and us) to begin transcending race in a way no white American politician ever has (or perhaps has ever felt a need to). He is both and neither in a way that confounds, to some extent, those who feel the need to pigeon-hole him. He's not merely proving that a black man can become president; he's showing the artificiality of ethnic labeling for what it is, and showing us a way past it, if we are wise enough.

No one should feel the need to run from ethnicity, but neither should we cling to it out of misplaced fear or pride.

[Karenina]

91. "his unusual descent?"

:shrug:

[Orsino]

93. Yep. Still very unusual for a politician on the national stage.

Either/or is still the accepted norm.

[EffieBlack]

95. I understand. but my point is that, although some

believe that Obama's heritage is unusual and, thus, the reason that mamy white people who ordinarily would not identify with a black person are connecting with him, he is not an aberration. Not even close..

Obama's mixed lineage is not all that unusual among blacks. Most of us come from a mixed racial heritage; very few African Americans have no white blood. Until now, that has never been enough to enable us to "transcend" our blackness.

For example, six of my eight great-grandparents had a white parent. And seven of my 16 first cousins have a white parent.this is very common among black folk.

Did you know that Rev. Jesse Jackson is more than 1/4 white? His maternal grandfather was a white man and many of his other ancestors were, as well. This certainly wasn't enough to make white people identify with him. While he earned significant white support in his presidential runs, it was nothing like that garnered by Obama and I doubt that his white supporters attributed their supprt for him to the fact that he was part white and, therefore, able to transcend race in a new way.

I think it's wonderful that so many white voters are supporting Obama - in fact, I'm thrilled. But I believe that the view that Obama's mixed racial lineage is something new and unusual is based, not on reality, but on a findamental misunderstanding about blacks in America.

[Orsino]

96. This is apples and oranges, then.

I'd hoped I was acknowledging the racially mixed heritages of many, many people who identify (or are forced to identify) as black or white. No, it's not that unusual to be of mixed race in America. What's unusual here is the ability of a politician to get a real message across that speaks louder than does the color of his skin. What's astounding is Obama's ability to turn it into another strength; words less hyperbolic than "transcendent" fail, IMO.

It's no fun for me to see him patly described as "black" precisely because he is something else, something that millions can identify personally with and which looks suspiciously like today's America.

[EffieBlack]

99. I agree

Obama's strength and ability to connect with and inspire whites has little or nothing to do with his mixed heritage - it is largely due, as you note, to his communication skills, intelligence and empathy.

But I also think this is partly the result of white Americans' growth and willingness to listen and understand more than in the past. Obama is not an anamoly. For centuries, our community has produced many, many, many brilliant, eloquent, empathetic black men and women - men and women with no less talent, skill and drive than Obama has. They just never had the chance to reach their full potential.

But Obama came along - standing on their shoulders - at just the right time in our history and the perfect confluence of his talents, his vision, and where this country is at this exact moment are largely responsible for what is happening now. Obama, to his great credit, recognized, seized and made the absolute most of this moment. And to the country's great credit, we are, for the first time, opening up to the possibility.

It is wonderful, isn't it?

[Orsino]

100. I hope you are right.

That's my hope, that Obama's popularity isn't just a gimmick, and will be remembered in history books as another turning point. I hope it is a symptom of advancement, and a spur to further progress in many areas.

But if Obamania is a fad, it's gonna last a lot longer than Palin's. :patriot:

I came out of a public school system still reeling from Brown v. Board of Education. "Wonderful" is another one of those words that may not suffice--but it'll do for the moment. :D

[lligrd]

23. Obama Is The Quintessential American.

an obvious product of the melting pot. He is the hope for the future. McCain is the past and good riddance to it.

[Number23]

24. Dumbest thread I have ever seen

And that my friend, is no small feat!

The idea that you feel you have to MINIMIZE, deny and trivialize his racial identity so that you can somehow feel that he "represents America" says much more about you than it does about Barack Obama.

Barack Obama identifies HIMSELF as a black man. His mama identified him as a black man. I'm sure that his wife, children and other family members identify him as a black man. And for millions of black Americans, Americans of color, and people of color across the world, it makes our hearts swell with more pride than you could know that he IS a black man. The hearts of millions of white Americans and whites of other nations also swell with pride that this man, who is going to be the next president of the U.S., is a black man.

If YOU can't deal with or accept the fact that he is black, or as you call it a "divisive definition" :wtf: my dear that is truly something I would taken with me to the grave.

160 years ago "Irish" would have been a worse descriptor.

The dumbest comment in the dumbest thread I've ever seen. Are you going for some type of award or something? Are they still doing those Squirrel Awards because by God you would be one HELL of a contender.

[TorchTheWitch]

27. Bravo!

Very well said!

[JTFrog]

28. I have to agree.

100%

[old mark]

25. OK, then he's Irish. nt

[No Elephants]

26. 160 years ago, Irish was another bad descriptor, not a worse one. Of color? Isn't that just

another label? BTW, Obama describes himself as African American. Says it is an accurate description of both sides of his family. And he has an Irish ancestor, too!

[Honeycombe8]

29. Actually, he's a little bit country & a little bit rock & roll. That is, he is black AND white.

He considers himself both, I think...but in our country, if you have Af. Am. blood in you, or if you look Af. Am., then you ARE Af. American.

I know what you're trying to say. We shouldn't see color. Maybe the world will be perfect one day. In the meantime, we are all defined in part by our genetics. That can be a good thing, actually. I am a result of all my ancestry and genetics (white, French, farmers). It only becomes a negative when someone else hates what my ancestry and genetics are....which is their problem, I guess.

[Connie_Corleone]

30. Obama calls himself black.

[alcibiades_mystery]

31. Obama is black

Welcome to America.

[BrainStorm]

34. He's a biracial Kenyan-American

How's that?

[no_hypocrisy]

35. Barak Obama's mother is invalidated every time he's called "black".

[EffieBlack]

39. So you think Obama purposely invalidates his mother? Please

You do realize that Obama's racial makeup is not much different than most African Americans? With very few exceptions, we all have a considerable amount of white blood coursing through our veins. In fact, Obama has more "black" blood than most of us, since he is 50% African, something that most other black people cannot claim. Our lineage is full of white ancestors, but for some reason, Obama is being labled as something separate and apart from most other blacks ("he's not REALLY black, you know - he's 'BI-RACIAL!').

What's even more interesting is watching the number of whites who believe that he's connected to and therefore a part of the larger white community because his mother was white. All through our history, our white blood meant absolutely nothing to white people - if we had "one drop" of African blood somewhere in our body, we were black and that was that. And we would have been smacked right out of town if we went around claiming that we should be treated anything else because we were part white. Being an octaroon didn't help Homer Plessy - his 1/8 black blood got him thrown into the Jim Crow car 'm not and led to a century of government-sanctioned apartheid.

So, I don't buy the attempts to suddenly "convert" Barack Obama into something other than he, society, and history have clearly defined him as - a black man.

[BrainStorm]

75. You do understand that you are following the white racists' "one drop" rule, right?

If you have "one drop" of black blood in you, you're black. That was the racists' way of seeing it. It was the racial purity, eugenics kind of bullcrap that is distasteful enough to make you want to vomit.

I think that needs to change and the acceptance of "biracial" or "multiracial" as a status is a good start.

[EffieBlack]

107. Yes, I'm quite familiar with the one-drop rule

It's been used to marginalize and separate blacks for centuries. So you shouldn't be surprised that I'm not so impressed at hearing white people - many of whom are the very people who benefitted from the and, in some cases, perpetuated the distinct refusal to dignify, much less embrace and claim as thei own, any person with a smidgen of African blood, regardless how much white blood they had - suddenly so quick and eager to suddenly claim kinship to Barack Obama because he is part white.

Maybe they can claim the NEXT major black presidential candidate (who, if he's like the vast majority of black Americans, will also be part white) but folks need to leave Barack alone and let black folks enjoy this moment of watching one of our own do his thing before we go all post-racial.

[BrainStorm]

110. While I sympathize with your viewpoint, there's a strong argument for "biracial" or

"multiracial". It's more accurate and it doesn't owe its ideology to 19th and 20th century segregationists and the KKK.

Besides, don't you think it will actually help Obama to win if everyone can see part of him as part of themselves? It creates more, not less.

And quite frankly, I don't give a crap who takes credit for him; I just want him in office and McCain feeding the pigeons at Rock Creek Park.

[rebel with a cause]

104. Barack is a Black man and he is also bi-racial

just as my children are Latinos and multi-racial. The two identities are not exclusively separate. If you are multi-racial or bi-racial, you of course can call yourself that while retaining the identity you see yourself as.

I'm seen as white and identify myself as such but proudly claim my American Indian heritage and admit I don't know what else I may be. Several parts of the family cannot be traced back past two or three generations, so don't know where they came from. My children's heritage is so mixed we only claim the ones we are sure of and admit there may be more.

As for the idea that Obama's mother is invalidated by his identifying himself as a black man, I would have to agree with you and say.. WHAT? I gave birth to two Latino children, I knew when I married their father that was how it would be. I am not insulted that they have an identity than is not mine. They have no problem with their identity except there is the fact that I raised them and their way of thinking is more mine than that of their father or his family. I imagine that Obama has that also since he was raised by his mother and her parents. But my children know what it feels like to be treated like one of the 'others' because they have faced the prejudice that other minorities face. And there I believe Barack has probably walked also, and he found the identity of who he was and who he wanted to be just as my children did.

The thing that I don't agree with you on is that Barack has to identify with only one parent. Like my children, he doesn't have to identify with only one side of his heritage. Since he is the beginning of the division, he is clearly of two different ethnic identities, and choosing the one does not mean he is denying the other. He choose the one with which he is comfortable being, and that is who he is. As for some white people having to tell themselves he is half white, I don't like it is that way, but I don't fight it because if that is what it takes for them to accept him then we will take that for now, and fight to change it after the election. ;)

[democracy1st]

36. Another BS post to inject race once again into this campaign

If you notice the first ones to try this trick was the GOP

[WinkyDink]

38. "He was the first person of "color" to head the Harvard Law Review." And this supports your point??

[mtnsnake]

40. Besides being happy Obama is a great American, I'm happy he's black because

this election is not only going to be fantastic for ALL of us, but it is going to be especially wonderful for African Americans all over this country and it's about time something like this happened. Thank goodness Obama came along.

[EffieBlack]

45. Unfortunately, the "Obama's not REALLY black, you know" claims are often an attempt

to rob this of any meaning for us.

It's a little amusing - white folks (not all, of course, but the majority in power) have ignored, marginalized and separated black folks for centuries, insisting in every way that they can that we are somehow different, distinct from the larger society. They erased our history and defined our identities. This was the case despite the fact that, not only were we instrumental in building this country, had been on these shores for centuries and most of us had almost as much white blood as black. Until recently, our white blood meant nothing to them. All that mattered was the black blood - regardless how small - that defined who were were.

Then get a black man who could be president and what happens? All of a sudden, many of these same folks who constantly saw us as black first and everything else second, now are insisting that Barack's white blood means he's not REALLY black, but should be seen as white, as well. It's actually pretty funny.

[flamingdem]

51. It's fine with me that blacks want to own Obama racially

They deserve this win from a self identified black American. But that doesn't mean white people cannot see themselves in Obama. You'd have to be very close minded to not realize that Obama projects plenty of whiteness as well as blackness. That is not a bad thing.

[EffieBlack]

53. I agree!

[Number23]

90. You say "funny"

It's actually pretty funny.

I say "pitiful and more than a little hypocritical." :)

And I would be oh so very curious of the three people who recommended this foolishness.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

41. Yes, i do want to label people. Barack Obama is Black.

why would i take this achievement away from the black community?

he is many other things as well, but he is black

[Heather MC]

42. How is that a label? he is black, I am black, why are people so afraid to say BLACK

No one discusses the Whiteness of McCain and what a problem that is.

he's black he's black he's black
(think Blazing sadles"

SO FUCKING WHAT

[IndianaJones]

43. what a load of crap. nt.

[flamingdem]

44. The fact is our country doesn't handle the term "mulatto" very well

People of black and white racial heritage are forced to choose due to the history of racial separation here. In the Caribbean it is a completely different story. Mulattos are the majority in Cuba for instance.

The mulatto is the subject of songs and books and is associated with beauty. Here that word freaks people out. It implies racial mixing. In Cuba the ideal for many people is a mulatto that is the product of a white and black person, they are proud of their mixing, it defines who they are -- though I am not saying that racism is not a problem there -- but you don't have to "choose" to be black or white.

The term "mulatico" is an affectionate term for a mulatto in the Caribbean and they are not called black, unless they move to the USA!

[EffieBlack]

46. In America, people didn't "choose" to be black or white - it was decided for us

A drop of black blood, regardless how tiny, defined us - by law - as black. Unless a person was light enough to "pass" (and thereby live a life of isolation from family and friends, denial and fear of being found out), they were black. Period.

[flamingdem]

49. Yet Barack feels he had to choose and defines himself as black

even though the One Drop rule is no longer the rule of the land it seems to rule in peoples minds.

It seems difficult for some to see him as mulatto. That IS the correct term. Not black. Though
he can define himself as he wants -- whatever -- but technically is neither black or white according
to most measures of racial heritage.

I expect that after he is president for a while those categories might relax. We might be able to
define him as a mulatto -- though a better word has to be invented to get beyond the rejection of
that term.

[EffieBlack]

52. I don't think Obama "chose" anything. Like most black people, he knows exactly

how he is defined in America. He is black, notwithstanding his white mother.

Imagine how ridiculous he would appear if he'd spent his life going around calling himself "white."

Barack Obama is not the first mixed-race person - in fact, he's like the vast majority of blacks, most of whom are mixed race. Very very few black Americans are pure African.

Much of this discussion, I think, is based upon a lack of understanding of black history and knowledge of black people. People who are familiary with this know that Barack is nothing unusual in our community since most black people are mixed race.

This was very obvious a few months back when a genealogy study showed that some of Obama's white ancestors were slave owners and some people wrung their hands wondering if this "revelation" would hurt Obama among blacks. I actually fell out laughing when I heard this. The people saying this apparently had no idea that many, many, if not most blacks have slave owners in our ancestry. In fact, this actually made Obama MORE like most black Americans, not less.

I agree that some of these categories might relax a bit but hope they don't. I have no problem with racial diversity and think it's wonderful when we celebrate our differences. What I don't like is the use of that diversity to divide or degrade. But I'm just as concerned that there still is a notion that the "melting pot" approach really is no such thing - in reality, it means that people of color give up our identities to blend in with the larger white culture. That's what I fear is occurring with the "Obama's not really black, you know" arguments. That now that a black man has reached this point, some people are trying to subsume him into the larger white culture rather than recognizing and appreciating and, yes, celebrating, his blackness.

[flamingdem]

61. Obama is a mulatto, why is that so difficult to deal with in the USA?

If the social construct was more flexible here he would define himself as a mulatto.

The term fits in the case of Obama whose upbringing was fostered by a white family even if he is defined or self defined as black.

However, at this point mulatto doesn't hold much meaning for Americans. Black Americans do not tend to celebrate that category as far as I am aware, and whites who have not traveled much do not see it at all.

If you spend time in the Caribbean or Brazil you get it because you see so many examples of mixing. Here we see some but it is not that common so the simple categories predominate.

[flamingdem]

62. My feeling is -- let people project what they want onto Obama so they vote for him!

The less divisive we are about it the better, but that includes letting him be seen as white as well as black especially now when white Americans are learning to like him and want to identify with him.

[Colobo]

47. He's a mulatto, like many black people around the world.

[EffieBlack]

48. What do you call a person who's half white and half black?

Black.

At least in this America.

[flamingdem]

50. If Cuba becomes our friend that could change

65% of the country is racially mixed and confounds categories. The USA has very little experience with racial mixing compared to the Caribbean and other countries like Brazil.

What they're into is detailed descriptions of the mix with names like Jabao, Moro, trigeno. Eventually the USA will expand it's vision of the races.

Right now it seems just as threatening, or more threatening to black that these categories be in flux. For good reasons the black community doesn't want to dilute it's identity because along with that their culture and history is potentially undermined.

[BlooInBloo]

64. No it won't. American white folks will call the whole gaggle of them black...

The racist white ones left when Castro took over, and are now in Florida, as an essential part of the republican party.

It's unlikely that white folks will expand their vision of anything having to do with race anytime soon.

[flamingdem]

78. Even the white Cubans know the difference between a mulatto and a black

... they are not as tightly wound about the definitions and their racism is a bit different from US racism but believe me they know their mixtures -- as most of them have a relative or two around ... who don't fit the purely white definition though you won't find them acknowledging it much.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BklynChick]

56. he is black. i certainly don't want that used against him, but nothing wrong with saying it.

[LibraLiz1973]

58. He's black AND American. Who gives a shit?

He IS black and I, for one, will not be shying away from that.

Fuck the haters.

[IDsweetpea]

63. Sorry, I posted the wron link..here is the right one!

He is sueing the DNC and claiming Obama was born in Kenya and forfeited his right to be a natural born citizen.

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/6524

Please tell me when I can post a thread, I need serious help fight rabid reps on another board!

[AspenRose]

71. Obama's mother was an American citizen.

Children born to one American parent are considered American citizens.

Therefore this is moot. Thank you and good day.

[crazy_vanilla]

67. Barack is Barack and I have never thought in terms of color

I like the person and what he stands for. That's it.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

68. He's biracial. Half of him is as pasty-white as any cow-town Midwesterner.

But you'd never know it to look at him. To the extent that appearances matter in the world--which is no small extent, btw--he is black.

:shrug:

[flamingdem]

87. Why do people always pick on pasty white people

Up with the pasty white people, pasty is beautiful too!

As Bill Maher says "Honkey, pleeaase"

[NYC_SKP]

70. I recommend this post. The OP speaks broadly to Americans, the press, etc.

In my opinion, and not to progressives, per se.

So, I don't understand some of the negative responses.

Obama doesn't label himself "black", and the OP description is compatible with the way he presents himself, and I celebrate that and I recommend this post.

:patriot:

[flamingdem]

79. I think the OP is incorrect because yes Obama labels himself in the context

of the American cultural scene as "black" but he is proud of and describes in detail his very white family that raised him.

It's not the label issue as much ... I do agree that he reflects so many of us and he is the great uniter, so let's stay
on message and stay united behind him.

[Raineyb]

83. Obama does label himself as black

Why is it if someone who is biracial commits some horrific crime no one rushes to label him or her as half white but now that we have someone who is biracial running for President suddenly the need to emphasize the half white part becomes rather strong?

It is unbelievable the depths to which people will go to minimize what Obama's election will mean to the black community.

And as to the OP, the OP's description is not compatible with the way Obama presents himself and merely moves to minimize the historic nature of this upcoming election. All this sudden interest in post-racial America as though we've actually gotten past our ugly racial past and present is ridiculous to say the least.

Regards

[flamingdem]

89. I like your first point

But I don't think anyone is denying that Obama is a black candidate in the American context and his election is going to be huge for blacks and black culture in the USA and that is going to be great.

[Raineyb]

105. I'm not saying that they're denying it, more minimizing it.

Obama is a great candidate. Frankly, I wouldn't expect anything less from him, I think a lot of black people will understand what I say when I say that we've had to be twice as good to be seen as half as competent so I wouldn't expect anything but a top notch campaign from someone as ambitious as Obama. However it seems to me that there are some who seem to be surprised by the quality of Obama and the campaign who can't bring themselves to believe that such a campaign is being run by a black man and feel the need to come up with some reason why this black man is such an outstanding candidate. So you get these "well he's not really black" type of memes. It's like they can't bring themselves to see a black man as a truly outstanding candidate in his own right so there must be something about him that makes him "different." It's annoying and further proof that there's no such thing as a "post-racial America."

Regards

[Number23]

92. As usual, Rainey

You and I are letters on the SAME PAGE.

It is unbelievable the depths to which people will go to minimize what Obama's election will mean to the black community.

Could NOT agree more.

[EffieBlack]

106. Great point!

"The suspect was described as a 5'10", bi-racial male.". Never.

"I would have gotten that job, but they gave it to a bi-racial guy!" Never.

"Why is it that white blue-collar white people are having trouble connecting with a half-white candidate?" Never.

[Runcible Spoon]

73. great more "post race" garbage, courtesy of liberal white guilt

[flamingdem]

81. It's not garbage, America is working out some major issues regarding

identity and it's not just liberal white guilt involved. I don't think the people of Iowa voted for Obama over guilt and most of us are way past that old idea, the young certainly have gotten past it, but that doesn't mean we are post race anything, not at all, just dealing with race more openly.

[Runcible Spoon]

82. ummm..I'm referring to the attitude of the OP

not Obama's white supporters in general. Just thought I would clarify. And YES liberal white guilt is what drives people to bury their heads in the sand and trumpet this Benetton ad, post race bullshit.

We are NOT dealing with race openly in this election. We are avoiding it, and letting the Repukes capitalize on fear.

[flamingdem]

84. I see some of what you're sayiing, it's simplistic to pretend we are past labels

because we certainly are not and will not be for a long time.
What is the Benetton thing? Do they push a post racial idea?

[Runcible Spoon]

85. yes, "United Colors of Benetton" campaign....

let me see if I can dig one up. To be fair, the images are beautiful but I'm using them as a graphic representation of how overly optimistic and simplistic this whole "post race" ideology is. In all fairness, I think most people's hearts are in the right place but you know what they say about the road to Hell.

[flamingdem]

86. OMG, anything for attention in the media..

That image is inappropriate for selling sweaters! Jeez.

[IDsweetpea]

77. I did not know you COULD forfeit you natural citizen status..

I am on a sewing board...sewing for god's sake...and they are all over this with glee. Defending Palin (save me, please), think McIdiot was innocent in the Keating 5 and it goes on and on. One Dem. did insist that Palin did say she can see Russia from you house in a stump speech. Can any one help me help her by pointing to a site? I know she said from places in Alaska, but do you know what speech is referencing?

[JI7]

88. he is black ,you make it sound like there is something wrong with it

[BlooInBloo]

94. Yup.

[PBS Poll-435]

97. Absolutely not.

I have a problem with the media (and others...) attempting to exert undue influence in this election.

[MellowDem]

98. Totally agree..

While it is true that for many Americans one drop equals black, for an ever increasing number of Americans that is not true. Obviously, the one drop rule is totally absurd.

Obama is not "black". He can call himself whatever he wants, but he is biracial. What I don't get is how some in the black community thinks this "takes away" from Obama's history setting campaign. It's very ignorant, it reminds me of the whole purity of race shit.

I am young, and I and my friends laugh at the simplicity of the one drop rule, a rule created by white slave owners by the way. The irony is that many black leaders continue to push the one drop rule and defend it. You have to laugh at the notion, even though it is a rather sad reflection.

Some will say that to view Obama as biracial is idealistic and not grounded in the reality that is American society. I think that viewing Obama as biracial is progressive and also part of the solution. It's telling the truth, even if most of society does not accept it. That's the only way people's views will change. You can't be scared shitless and just go along with some stupid and ignorant idea just because "that's the way it's always been". Nothing will ever change with that attitude.

Many people, when they first see Obama, think that he is "black". But when he is described accurately, as biracial, it's like a light bulb goes off in their head and they think, "ohh yeah, I guess he is isn't he?" It is a perfect representation of how progressives view the world in shades of gray instead of black and white. And the more that others come to think that way, the better for progressives. That's why I find it so counter-productive when some progressives continue to push such a regressive idea.

In the near future, most Americans will consider Obama biracial, and not too far after that, most Americans will consider Obama human, as the whole concept of race finally dies the death it needs to.

[alwysdrunk]

101. Yes the fuck he is

And there is nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with "labels" either. Diverse phenotypes are a fact of humanity, there will always be some way to communicate the differences.

[sampsonblk]

108. "Black" is not a divisive definition. And yes, Barack Obama is black - nt

[EffieBlack]

111. It seems the only times that some people think that labeling someone "black" is "divisive" are

1. When it is black people defining themselves as such; and

2. When it is portrayed as a positive thing.

Otherwise, people define us as "black" freely and completely unselfconsciously, as they have for centuries

[ileus]

109. I'm half as black as Obama? Who really cares about color?

I hate this crap about race.