I just got off the phone with the Kerry Campaign and I'm pissed

[NightOwwl]

They are getting hundreds of calls from people who think it's time for Kerry to take the gloves off. I asked when and if they were going to start going negative on Bush I was told that they already are. WTF?

Tried to explain that people are waiting to see if Kerry is a fighter, because the truth is, for many people this is what decides their vote. Backing Bush into a corner = Strong Leader = A vote for Kerry.

But no, they don't want to hit "below the belt." Waah? Attacking Bush for his incompetent presidency is not below the belt! But they have a strategy and they are sticking to it.

Please don't attack me as a whiner or a doomsdayer. I am a realist, and an angry one at that. After all the smears and attacks on Kerry, they are still trying to play nice. How can they be so naive?

[wakfs]

Yes it's getting pretty depressing

We can only hope that the Kerry campaign is saving its best for last.

Otherwise, he doesn't deserve to get elected.

[MoonRiver]

26. Doesn't "deserve" to be elected because he's TRYING to play fair?

So I suppose you think bush* DOES deserve to be re-Selected because he's employing scum bag tactics??

:wtf: I sincerely hope you were being sarcastic, but I didn't get that impression.

[NightOwwl]

86. Negative attacks do not mean smear.

The problem (as I see it), is the responses from the campaign aren't tied up into nice little sound bites that the media loves. For example:

Bush's war is a catastrophic failure.

The RNC is shamelessly exploiting 9/11 for political gain.

Rudy Guliano went over the line in his speech last night.

Delegates wearing purple heart bandaids are an insult to all veterans.

This is what I mean by negative attacks. Dean and Clark know how to do this very well and I wish we could see more of them.

[Blue_Roses]

93. so you want Kerry to act the same way Bush is acting?

that's not gonna happen, I hope, 'cause that's what this election is all about--electing a MATURE candidate who knows when to take the gloves off. It'll happen, but not like we are used to it happening. I have full faith in Kerry and even though I too, would have already come out of the gate fuming and fighting back like a back-ally thug, I'm glad he isn't. He has too much class for it, so give him a break--until--the debates! Then I expect full throttle.

[NightOwwl]

96. See my post# 86. n/t

[wakfs]

109. I agree

It's not that I want the Kerry campaign to conduct brutal attacks and smear campaigns. I want Kerry to find a simple message that resonates with a lot of voters, then just keep repeating that message, send the surrogates out to repeat that message, repeat the message on TV, etc.

Seems like he's just sitting back playing it very very safe. It's frustrating to see the Bush camp score hit after hit, then see a rise in their poll numbers.

Kerry needs to start scoring some points soon.

[derby378]

115. No more < 50% victories

Clinton won both terms with less than 50% of the vote. Bush "won" with less than 50% of the vote.

I think we should all let the Kerry campaign that they need to get off their butts and do something. The time for hemming and hawing is over.

[liberal_in_GA]

57. ABCnews interested in story on Bush's dirty push pollers—help!

Hi--

I'm brand new here, but I lurk frequently on the Salon.com table talk forums. There was a post on the Kerry '04 thread yesterday about someone in the DU forums receiving a call from a Bush push poller who finished the conversation by asking about Kerry's cancer. After the dirty push polling used in the South Carolina primary in 2000 (when Bush's henchmen exploited racial prejudices regarding McCain's daughter) I really think this could backfire on Bush. I took the liberty of writing to several news organizations about the cancer question, and just got an email back from ABC news:

Thank you for writing. Can you offer any contact information for this person, and
tell me where she/he lives, etc.? Any details are necessarry so we can report on
this.

Thank you.
Lisa Todorovich
ABC News

If you know who got this phone call or have any info about it, please write to me: [email protected], or to Ms. Todorovich: [email protected]. Maybe we can finally get the media to scrutinize Bush's dirty campaign tactics.

[liberal_in_GA]

61. This was the original "cancer question" on Salon.com

I just read a post over on DU that the Bush people are push-polling again.
The poster (a registered independent) got a call from a phone-banker; and after a short discussion the poller asked if the poster knew that Kerry had had cancer, and added that a patient is not truly a "cancer survivor" until one is cancer-free for five years.

[Warren DeMontague]

77. Which Brings Me Back To My Point...

Maybe we should run some unofficial "polls" of our own, asking people if they're aware of the relapse rates for serious alcoholics.

[still_one]

1. Where did you get numbers for the Kerry Campaign?

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

5. Contact Info

Contact National Headquarters
Kerry-Edwards 2004, Inc.
P.O. Box 34640
Washington, DC 20043
202-712-3000
202-712-3001 (fax)
202-336-6950 (TTY)

[still_one]

8. Thanks

[NightOwwl]

10. 1-202-712-3000

From the web site.

http://www.johnkerry.com/contact/

[Walt Starr]

2. It's up to US to hit below the belt

That's just all there is to it!

[luaneryder]

13. How, when, where?

I'm ready. The hardest part is how to counter the effective lies, distortions, misdirections the Repubs have already put out there and are believed. What to do?

[NightOwwl]

20. Call them and complain.

They are getting inundated with calls right now.

Where is the rapid response team?

Why is there not one Kerry rep on the media this morning responding to the RNC shameless exploitation of 9/11 for political purposes?

Why is no one mentioning the despicable purple heart bandaids?

Osama Bin Laden? No one feels the need to point out there is no mention of his name?

They are screwing up big time.

Kerry-Edwards 2004, Inc.
P.O. Box 34640
Washington, DC 20043
202-712-3000
202-712-3001 (fax)
202-336-6950 (TTY)

[NightOwwl]

17. It should not have to be completely up to us.

This is what his campaign staff is getting paid for.

[mbali]

53. Have you ever worked on a national campaign?

The campaign staff has plenty on its plate and depends heavily on grass roots people.

The Bush campaign has 40,000 volunteers mobilized across the country getting the message out. Their volunteers are calling radio shows, doing visibility, writing letters to the editor, etc., and are one of the primary reasons (along with a compliant press) that the Bush mantra is getting disseminated better than our message. They know that it doesn't do any good to form a circular firing squad, which is the only way to characterize organizing a mass call-in to the campaign to bitch about their strategy and then expecting the underpaid and overwhelmed campaign staffers to jump up, say "yassuh" and do as YOU tell them to do.

If you want to make a difference in this campaign, stop griping, stop wasting the campaign's limited time and resources with cranky phone calls, criticisms and lectures and DO something CONSTRUCTIVE!

And if you feel absolutely compelled to call the campaign, it would probably be more helpful if, instead of bitching at the kid who answers the phones about what YOU think THEY should be doing, try asking them what THEY think YOU should be doing and how you can be more helpful to them.

[liveoaktx]

52. ACT as Kerry's surrogates-that's what Chimp does

If you've read "Fortunate Son", you know that Bush's campaign style is to remain above the fray, dissassociated from negative attacks, while he sends out his minions to do his dirty work.

Well. Have you written a letter to your local paper today? Did you take out an advertisement, even a small classified? Did you call a local radio station? Have you volunteered to go out block-canvassing? Have you put up something on the internet (other than here) that talks about your point?

DON'T WAIT FOR SOME OTHER GrOUP TO DO SOMETHING. DO SOMETHING YOURSELF.

[cynatnite]

3. I emailed the campaign

I basically told them that they've got to hit shrub and his minions hard. Pretty much the same thing as you. I'm sick of this playing nice shit.

Let them call us angry. Let them call us negative. We've got a hell of a lot of reasons to be pissed.

Cyn

[ClassWarrior]

18. Then DON'T play this nice shit!

Cripes, do you want someone to feed you your Maypo and tuck you into bed at night too?? YOU hit Shrub and his minions hard!! Ever hear of LTTE's?? Door-to-door canvassing? Phone banking??

Sheeeeesh.

[NightOwwl]

22. Hey!

We are doing what we can, but we can't carry this election ourselves. Why direct your anger at someone who is making an effort?

This campaign is dropping the ball. Why should we have to pick it up for them Every Single Time?

[ClassWarrior]

27. Making an effort to do WHAT?? Harass the guys on OUR side??

Why should WE have to pick up the ball any time one of our campaigns drops it?? BECAUSE THIS IS A PARTICIPATORY DEMOCRACY, DAMMIT. AND BECAUSE WE HAVE A STAKE. If you want something done right DO IT YOURSELF!!

Of course, some people would rather that the candidates do everything for them, so they can sit around on their asses and watch their soaps.

[NightOwwl]

34. Watching soaps and sitting on my ass?

I spend 1 to 2 hours a day emailing media, writing LTTE's, calling campaign.

What a stupid thing for you to say.

[ClassWarrior]

37. Good. Then spend 3-4 hours a day doing that...

...and quit spreading BS that our campaign is weak and unresponsive.

[NightOwwl]

44. Our campaign is weak and unresponsive.

That's the point of my post.

[ClassWarrior]

49. Then obviously you HAVEN'T been volunteering...

...because I've observed during the several months that I'VE been volunteering that this campaign is the tightest, smartest one I've seen in my quarter-decade of political activism.

[Dhalgren]

116. "quarter-decade "?

So you've been involved in campaigns for 2 1/2 years? That's not a lot of experience to be trash mouthing someone with legitimate concerns, IMO. You can work your fingers to the bone for a candidate, but if that candidate isn't playing to win, you got nothing but bony fingers to show. If I feel like the candidate isn't running the right campaign, I'll say so, and you can do your hero-worship somewhere else.

[molly]

56. Maybe "yours" is - "ours" is not

[molly]

39. Door knocking works......

see my post below.

[Kinkistyle]

4. Been hearing that alot lately.

E-mails from friends, Howard Stern etc... "Why is Kerry just sitting back and taking this punishment? Why doesn't he punch back?" etc.. etc...

Its kinda disheartening yeah. But he has surprised me before, and I have a feeling he will surprise again. I hope.

[NightOwwl]

12. No. No he won't.

Not if his campaign staff has their way. They are loathe to go negative. It sucks but it's true.

[bigtree]

25. Kerry Campaign to Sprint Out of the Gates Following Rep. Convention

Kerry-Edwards Campaign to Sprint Out of the Gates Following Republican Convention

Kerry, Edwards, Wives to Storm Battlegrounds Labor Day Weekend; Kerry and Edwards to Kick Off Effort with Midnight Ohio Rally
For Immediate Release

Washington, DC - Following four days of misleading slogans, miscalculations and soundbites designed to hide the real Bush record in New York, John Kerry and John Edwards will kick off the general election Friday with a real plan for America, a formidable sign of campaign strength and impressive grassroots support as they join their wives in barnstorming battleground states Labor Day weekend.


Hours after the close of the Republican convention, Kerry, Edwards and their families will hold a midnight rally in Springfield, Ohio before splitting up to hold separate tours through battleground states.

Culminating in coordinated, country-wide Front Porch visits on Monday, the weekend will focus on the Kerry-Edwards plan to create jobs, cut taxes for the middle class, lower health care costs and make America stronger and safer because John Kerry and John Edwards believe a stronger America begins at home.

As Kerry, Edwards and Teresa Heinz Kerry and Elizabeth Edwards hit the battleground states, the campaign will unveil new television ads next week on their plan to build a stronger America.

“John Kerry and John Edwards will sprint out of the general election gates with a real plan for America and incredible grassroots strength across this country,” said Kerry-Edwards campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill. “With two months to go, we will begin our final push to make sure voters know about the fundamental choice in this election: four more years of policies that benefit the few and ‘catastrophic’ successes that blame the military for administration ‘miscalculations,’ or the Kerry-Edwards plan to build an economy that strengthens and expands the middle class.”

Following the midnight rally, Kerry, Edwards and their wives will split up for four separate tours Friday and Saturday, and Front Porch visits on Monday. Kerry’s Friday and Saturday bus tour will take him through the Ohio cities of Newark, Akron and Steubenville. Edwards will hold a similar bus tour through Wisconsin. Teresa Heinz Kerry will tour through Iowa, while Elizabeth Edwards tours Michigan.

On Labor Day, all four individuals will hold front porch visits. They will be joined in the effort by supporters across the country and in each and every battleground state who will gather in their communities on front porches, cul-de-sacs and other meeting places to hold Front Porch Visits of their own. Each Front Porch event will feature the Kerry-Edwards book, “Our Plan for America,” and local elected officials and other prominent backers of the Kerry-Edwards team.

In another sign of the strong grassroots support building behind the Kerry-Edwards team, the campaign this week expects to sign-up the 2 millionth subscriber to its online list at Johnkerry.com. The Labor Day weekend tour will be cataloged and followed closely on this webpage. In addition to readouts from the road and maps to follow along, the website will feature pictures of the best local front porch visits and some of the best stories from the weekend.

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0831a.html

[NightOwwl]

30. Jesus. This is what I'm talking about.

Fuck the long-winded wishy washy responses. That just isn't working anymore.

[apnu]

51. I don't understand how this happens

The GOP has figured out how to get their message to the people in a way they can swallow. Namely bullet points devoid of reason, intelligence, and logic. They are engineered to invoke an emotional response, which lingers in the human mind a lot longer than cold hard facts and figures.

For some odd reason, the Dems haven't figured it out. They need some bite-sized fire that voters can digest easily. These nuggets of thought have to be emotional and tied to the culture of America.

The reason politics is this way has a lot to do with the dumbing down of America. The majority of voters (regardless of political ownership) are one issue voters. Ask a typical 'pug if they would ever consider voting for a Dem and they'll say "hell no!" you ask why and they respond "Dems will tax me to death." Bingo! one issue, perfectly framed and designed to nullify anything positive about a Dem.

We have to find a similar statement about the 'pugs. Something like "Repugs will take all your rights away" or "Repugs tax your kids" or "Repugs are abusing your children's future" Or something like that.

We have got to get into this thing and KNOW that this is a fight. A deadly back-alley knife fight where the winner goes home with everything and the loser is just dead in the dirt. That's how the GOP is battling us and unless we respond with the exact same intensity we will lose over and over and over.

Get up and get loud people!!!

[Tomee450]

106. You are

absolutely correct. It is so frustrating to watch how poorly the Kerry campaign is operating.

[annxburns]

6. Why didn't they jump all over Bush's comment yesterday

That the war on terror cannot be won? All I saw was a tepid response from Edwards.

Why didn't Kerry release a statement? That was a huge gift. Every Democrat should be repeating it.

Honest to God.

[luaneryder]

15. The Pickles turned it around and said

it was being won.

[bigtree]

23. Edwards Statement on Bush Comments on the War on Terror

August 30, 2004
For Immediate Release

Wilmington, NC - Senator John Edwards released the following statement in response to Bush’s comments today on the war on terror:


“After months of listening to the Republicans base their campaign on their singular ability to win the war on terror, the president now says we can’t win the war on terrorism. This is no time to declare defeat -- it won’t be easy and it won’t be quick, but we have a comprehensive long-term plan to make America safer. And that’s a difference.”

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0830a.html

[NightOwwl]

41. They just don't get it.

George Bush's war is a catastrophic failure.

RNC delegates ridicule vets with purple band-aids.

No mention of Osama Bin Laden. Did Bush flip-flop?

Shamelessly exploiting 9/11 for political purposes.

Why did it take George Bush 3 days to get to Ground Zero?

We should be hearing this from a Kerry rep right now!

[NightOwwl]

24. Exactly.

This is just the latest example of missed opportunities.

[ClassWarrior]

45. It's out there.

It really chaps my hide when people whine that the whores aren't changing their spots fast enough for their liking.

The meme about SURRENDERING THE WAR ON TERROR is out there. With our help, we can make it an issue. But we need to focus on the right people - the press, not our guys!!

[RandomKoolzip]

7. The only way Kerry can win the hearts of fence-sitting Americans

is if he FIGHTS this shit. Undecideds love a fighter. None of this Dukakis/Mondale "lie back and take it" shit. I know he'd love to stay above the fray and remain untouched and above it all, but he doesn't have that option anymore.

[Kahuna]

19. Don't forget Al Gore. Gore had blinders on and never responded

to any of the lies and attacks. Thus, he became another victum of the republican attack machine.

[NightOwwl]

46. Exactly. n/t

[The Traveler]

9. Do I feel safer with GWB in office

Hell no. Not only is he missing the terrorists and hitting everything else around him, like a bad marksman, but the question remains unanswered: Who is going to protect us from Bush himself?

** edited for typoes **

[pmbryant]

11. Huh?

You must not be watching the same campaign I'm watching.

The media is on Bush's side, remember. They are not going to publicize Kerry's campaign's criticisms of Bush the way they do the opposite. But that doesn't mean it isn't happening.

--Peter

[NightOwwl]

48. Media loves negative sound-bites.

One of the best examples was Kerry calling Bush on his "itsy-bitsy" new slogan, "turning the corner."

"Kerry attacks Bush on "itsy-bitsy" slogan. That was all over the news the next day. And guess what? Bush quit using it.

[pmbryant]

58. A good example

Kerry is indeed "fighting back", as your example clearly shows. The press deigned to cover that one, fortunately, but we know their loyalties. And the closer the election comes, the less likely they are to favor our point of view.

--Peter

[michigandem2]

14. i am beyond frustrated....

this is absurd...you can't just sit back and not say anything..DEFEND yourself..attack their policies...ask some questions...lets get out there and make some noise...this is re-goddamn-diculous..and we need to take a stand...if the media is ignoring us....or our side of the story..that is one thing, but so far there is nobody out there with STRONG opposing views..everyone is so polite and nice..its just not the time to be polite...they aren't...and they won't change

[umtalal]

69. the purple heart bandaid should not be forgotten by us.

we need to keep at it until we get an official apology.

[Blue_Roses]

98. I don't give a damn about an apology,

I just want them OUT! OUT! Fuck the apology. These people wouldn't know an apology if it hit them in the ass!

[ClassWarrior]

16. Oh, I'm sure you could run a national campaign against...

...the scummiest bunch of lowlife slugs in history MUCH BETTER. I'm aghast that the Kerry people didn't put you on the frickin' payroll right then and there!

I guess we're all screwed. Give up. The election's over folks. Move along. Nothing to see here.

[NightOwwl]

32. Bullshit.

This is not what I said and you know it.

I never said the election is all over. I said it is time to get tough.

[ClassWarrior]

40. You said nothing of the sort in your original post.

You said you're pissed at our own guys, you implied that they're weak, and you called them naive.

Never once did you use the words, "time to get tough."

[bigtree]

21. You are whining

What makes you think you know better than all of the political minds that are involved with and aiding the Kerry campaign? And what did you expect for an answer as you call uninvited to the campaign and proceed to tell them how much you think they suck. I would suggest that you put your suggestions (without obvious insults) into writing. Send a copy or two to the campaign and try to dissiminate your comments to some other receptive outlets.

[NightOwwl]

28. Not whining, fighting back.

I talk to them almost every day. This is what the campaign is telling me. I'm not making this up out of thin air.

And bullshit. I am not whining. Whining is sitting back and complaining the sky is falling while letting it hit you on the head. I am trying to do something about it. Don't you wonder why there is NO ONE this morning criticizing lasts night RNC? That is just unforgivable.

[ClassWarrior]

42. Then complain to the frickin' PRESS fer cripe's sake!!!

[Blue_Roses]

99. thank-you!

geezee...:eyes:

[Dhalgren]

117. Oh, I'm sorry,

I didn't know you owned this board. If you are the owner, then you get to tell everyone what they can and can't say here. I'll watch my step from here on out - with your permission, of course.

[bigtree]

43. DNC Daily Press Conference:

'Mission Not Accomplished for Compassion' Daily Press Briefing Aug. 31

8/31/2004 9:06:00 AM

Contact: Press Office, 212-243-5224

News Advisory:

DNC Daily Press Conference:

"Mission Not Accomplished for Compassion"

DETAILS:

The Democratic National Committee's Convention Response Team will host its daily morning press conference on the topic of "Mission Not Accomplished for Compassion."

Speakers include Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack, U.S. Senator Chuck Schumer, Congressman Ciro Rodriguez, Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones, and several healthcare professionals. The DNC will also unveil a special video at tomorrow's press conference.

WHAT:

Daily Press Briefing

WHERE:

DNC Convention Response Team Headquarters

275 7th Ave. (between 25th and 26th streets), 15th floor

WHEN:

10 a.m., Tuesday, Aug. 31

SATELLITE COORDINATES:

10 a.m. to 10:45 a.m. ET

Galaxy 4R

Transponder 21

Cband

Downlink Frequency 4120 horizontal

[polmaven]

73. Should the people from the rapid response team

shove their ways onto the sets of the networks without being invited? The talk shows, the cable networks, etc.? Maybe they should hold some hostages?

There will be a daily morning press conference held. If the press chooses to ignore it, what should the campaign do? Shoot their way in?

Get real! During this convention, the press will cover what they want to cover. Period.

If you have suggestions on how they should force the coverage, why have you not volunteered to be a strategist at the nearest Kerry campaign office?

[HootieMcBoob]

102. yeah stop whining

take some Valium and bury your head in the sand with the rest of us.

[Snellius]

29. Nothing will change until they get rid of that Al From/DLC crowd

Kerry made a major tactical mistake in not taking Howard Dean's advice and finally clearing out that whole Al From/DLC gang, who should all join Zell out the back door. Their only major strategy is to show the country how Republican the Democrats are.

[oc2002]

31. Kerry Blitzkrieg to start this labor day weekend!!

Its a race, sometimes you have to hold your horses back until you reach the last corner of the stretch, thats what the Kerry campaign is doing.

The media is currently following dutifully the Rove agenda, by repeating over and over the swift boat story.

Too bad the Kerry campaign does not "endorse" a moveon.org adds, that would actually get the media attention.

fight fire with fire damn it!

[DaveinMD]

33. Did you talk to Mary Beth Cahill

or did you talk to some poor staffer who has no decision making ability. Cahill and company will get things going in the right direction again. Don't worry about this race until two weeks after the convention. Things will settle back down to where they should be at that point.

[molly]

35. I have a suggestion

why not go door knocking? Meet people face to face with a copy of the facts. If they are not home, leave it in their door - NOT their mailbox - that's illegal.

[Claire Beth]

36. They best be fighting back HARD...

and QUICK!!!

[kentuck]

38. Are they going to use your strategy or mine?

:) Or a thousand other strategies I'm sure that has been suggested to them? I think they have a strategy and are sticking with it and I think I know what it is?

[mbali]

47. Maybe they could get something done if so many "experts" weren't tying up

the phone lines bitching at the kids on phone duty about what the campaign's doing wrong.

[NightOwwl]

50. They have people staffing the lines for just that purpose.

Are we supposed to keep our mouths shut if we disagree with the strategy? Sign an oath of loyalty before we're allowed to talk to them?

[mbali]

54. Right - and all these kids can do is pass on your concerns to their bosses

So why bitch about the kid saying he'll pass the message on?

[ItsMyParty]

55. The press release mentioned above says it all

They are going to come out fighting over Labor Day weekend and tell Americans their PLAN........I just can hardly wait. I'm peeing myself with excitement. Stuff the goddamn PLAN. Nobody is listening. You've said enough about the plan and you are not burying Bush with your goddamn PLAN. The republicans are busy telling the country why you don't want a slimebag, liberal, devil dancing, lying vet, piece of crap like John Kerry as your president. But we say the people don't like to hear that. Bullshit---why do you think our favorite TV subject matter in this country is the reality crap where people sneak behind each other's backs, lie and cheat to get on top. These dumbasses who are advicing Kerry have no clue to American culture..none. Are we ever going to say: Please don't vote for Mr. Bush because he sometimes burps after eating..sorry, I didn't mean to be so negative about him...sorry....COULD WE AT LEAST SAY THAT??--huh, could we??? geeesh

[troublemaker]

59. Rather than flaming, I'll just ask, "is this helpful?"

The Republican party pays people to sow despair and alienation on Democratic message boards and to tie up phone lines at Kerry headquarters, so why do the same work for free? What good comes of it?

It would be suicidal for the Kerry campaign to be responsive to supporter feedback at this point. Their primary job is fighting panic and executing a plan. The day to day emotions of the campaign are potentially deadly if they give in to them.

For a fairly objective factual overview of where we are, please check out this outstanding entry:

http://www.emergingdemocraticmajorityweblog.com/donkeyrising/

[Fleshdancer]

60. Kerry doesn't strike me as a "take off the gloves" kinda guy

He didn't come across that way in the primaries when Democrats nominated him and I don't understand why our expectations of him should change now. :shrug:

[mbali]

62. Yeah - the fact that he cleaned the clock of every one of his opponents

and wrapped up the nomination 6 weeks into the primary is a sure sign that he's a wimp who doesn't know how to fight.

[Fleshdancer]

66. I never said he was a wimp, but thanx for putting words in my mouth

your defensive post is so very appreciated. :eyes:

I'm not saying he won't win (I think he will and I'll be voting for him so knee jerk on that concept) and I recognize that he's obviously won many campaigns in the past, but he still doesn't come across as a "take the gloves off" kinda guy.

Because his tactics aren't like Bush - meaning, since he doesn't seem to have any plans to unleash any millionaire attack dogs from Texas anytime soon, he's going to do things differently. Speaking of the primary, he "wrapped it up" after practically rising from the political ashes when everyone thought his campaign was dead. He didn't win by taking gloves off or by any other psuedo macho actions like "cleaning the clocks" of his opponents as you so eloquently put it. He took some hits, didn't let temporary low poll numbers freak him out, hit the streets, and slowly and steadily made his case and won support.

The fact is that people here want him to campaign in a way that isn't suited for him. If people here think that taking off the gloves is the best way to win against Bush, that's fine. But if that's the case, then they should have voted for someone else in the primary. That's all I'm saying.

[mbali]

72. I stand corrected

I mistakenly confused you with those DUers who seem to think that they know so much better than Kerry how to run a successful campaign.

[AuntPatsy]

63. As someone said earlier on another thread..

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't....

So the heck with playing fair, obviously it is not working, I know alot of people that are firm Bush supporters, they need to be hit and hit hard in order to wake up....

They call the Dems weak, living in Texas, I hear this often, but not only here, from up North as well...

I agree with Owl though I know the media is in far too much control for it to be an easy fight, but a fight it needs to be...and just as hard hitting as has been coming from Bush and company...

[incapsulated]

64. I want to say something, too!

For those of you getting on Night Owwls case:

You can knock on doors until your hands fall off, but you can't knock your way onto CNN to make a statement to the nation. That is what we are asking for, for big name Kerry spokespeople to come out swinging. We can't do that, they have to. And don't tell me that CNN or MSNBC is going to REFUSE an interview with Edwards or Dean, especially one that promises fireworks.

[vetwife]

65. I just called Congressman Lewis and the General backing Kerry was on CNN

The Kerry Campaign is UPSET !

[umtalal]

67. UPSET about what?

[incapsulated]

68. Which General...

My General (Clark)? ;) or another? Damn, I missed it... Did you see it? Did they say they were going to roll some people out?

[ClassWarrior]

70. Why can't you??

Did you ever pay a visit to the news director at your local Faux affiliate?? Huh? Do I hear you saying, "No??"

Eric Alterman calls it working the refs - no it's not the big hit of getting on the air to "make a statement to the nation," but it's a steady eroding away of the "CONventional wisdom." Arguably even more lasting than a two-minute live segment that two percent of America might catch over the dinner table.

And in case you hadn't noticed, Howard Dean and Wes Clark and lots of other big-name Kerry spokespeople HAVE BEEN COMING OUT SWINGING!!

[NightOwwl]

114. Thanks incapsulated.

Appreciate the support. :hi:

[Darby]

71. Fax an Ethics Complaint on O'Neill to the Texas Bar TODAY

AND WRITE LETTERS TO THE EDITOR OF TEXAS NEWSPAPERS ON THIS TOPIC


Stop John O'Neill and force accountability upon him - this is how...
John E. O'Neill
CLEMENTS O'NEILL PIERCE WILSON ET AL
1000 LOUISIANA ST STE 1800
HOUSTON, TX, 77002
phone [phone]

Bar Card Number: 1529750

John E. O'Neill, author of Unfit for Command, is an attorney licensed and practicing in Texas. Rumor has it he thinks he will be appointed a federal judge...

According to the Texas Disciplinary Rules of Professional Conduct:

Rule 8.02 Judicial and Legal Officials (a) A lawyer shall not make a statement that the lawyer knows to be false or with reckless disregard as to its truth or falsity concerning the *qualifications or integrity* of a judge, adjudicatory official or public legal officer, or of a *candidate for election* or appointment to judicial or legal office.

Rule 8.04 Misconduct (a) A lawyer shall not: (3) engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation;

The State Bar can sanction him, suspend his license or even DISBAR him.

PLEASE WRITE, FAX, FED EX THE TEXAS STATE BAR TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THESE VIOLATIONS - including at least one specific example of an obvious lie:

P.O. Box 12487
Austin, Texas 78711

1414 Colorado St.
Austin, TX 78701

Fax: [phone] <----------------------------

Telephone Numbers --- but writing is better

Toll Free: [phone]
Local: [phone]

COMPREHENSIVE LIST OF O'NEILL'S DEBUNKED LIES AT www.mediamatters.org - search on "O'NEILL"

[AuntPatsy]

74. Well I frankly have not noticed to much swinging

definately not enough when you take into account the mindset of so many here in America, there are still many seemingly terrified of another 9/11 hitting them where it hurts, in their own backyard...

I believe someone said that many on this board do not understand politics as it is. Well maybe, and this could be cliche...

But perhaps we should be saying instead outloud..

"Houston We Have A Problem" and yet it is not only in Houston as it were...

We have those falling all over themselves because of some misplaced illusion that Bush is going to make or keep them in riches...they refuse to take a closer look at the direction is administration is leading us and not only the poor America whom many associate with being Democrats...

We also have the religious right winged zealots absolutely convinced that Bush and company is their only help of salvation and refused to be sidetracked by those devil worshiping liberals...

Still others, too fearful of believing themselves capable of having the strength or intellect to think for themselves..

So how do you hope to defeat such obstacles?

The only way that I see it is through the media, the same way politics has been shaped for many years now. Without them, we lose.

[ClassWarrior]

76. We lose?? WE LOSE???

Yes, let's give up. Move along folks, we have bon-bons to shove down our fat faces. It's just a waste of time to even try. Let's watch our soaps instead.

[AuntPatsy]

79. Common, a clear head is needed...

I never said to give up nor have others. Many are frustrated and they have every right to be, yet I have not seen anyone on this forum actually advocating giving up....

But I do believe that without the media to force on the nation that Bush is not very well liked by as many as they keep spouting he is, the lies that this administration is so quilty of and does quite openly will never be fully investigated enough for many of these people that I mentioned to take a second look...

Take another look at one of the threads. I believe it was about Laura Bush being a hooker or something, some people on this board actually believed it and you know why? Because so many kept the little charade up, even I who knew from post one that it was not to be taken serious has to shake my head a time or two to get the mental images out..

Television is in my mind one of the most powerful weapons of our day in regard to attempted brainwashing...

[ClassWarrior]

83. Words are even more powerful than television.

Words that I keep hearing all over DU, words like "we lose" and "it's hopeless." Feh.

[abrock]

75. Patience...

Patience is a virtue. I said this last night and I'll say it again: The only thing that can save the Bush campaign from its own incompetence is a miracle directly from God, and after they stomped all over the graves of the 9/11 victims God probably isn't exactly pleased with them, either.

[Lorien]

78. What # did you call?

I want to make the same call-I'm pissed as hell too! The DLC thinks Dems look "tough" by talking tough about terrorists and acting like pathetic wimps in the face of GOP lies. ATTTACK ADS WORK! Clinton used them and was elected twice!

[Norquist Nemesis]

80. Take a moment and BREATHE!!

Step back, take a deep breath, and think about this...

Look at the way the Bush campaign is being run and look at the way the Kerry campaign is being run. Seriously. Analyze how Bush is attacking and how he is defending. Then compare to Kerry.

One thing you're going to see, if you're really truthful and honest about it is:

Bush does not deal with people below Kerry/Edwards. That is the reason why he would not meet Max Cleland and Jim Rasmussen to accept the letter at his ranch. To do so, would be against the rules of the game. Just like in the corporate board room, the CEO does not go after the team manager. The CEO uses the chain of command to do it and expects the designees to do their jobs.

That's what is going on with Kerry's campaign as well.

While you can argue that it hasn't been effective, I would differ on that point. Proof of it is the attacks on Kerry. In other words, if the campaign with the support of people like us haven't been effective, the GOP soldiers would not be fighting so hard and taking action.

So what's the point of this post? You should not expect Kerry to come out and start 'defending' himself to each and every attack! He needs to stay on message in a Kerry vs. Bush fight. Kerry is depending on US (you and me) to directly fight the battles and win this war against the GOP soldiers. He's giving us the tools we need (check the website! sign up for alerts with press releases for talking points! host a meetup! go door knocking! put a bumber sticker on your car! display your support everywhere you go! engage others!). There's some great material already on this thread from the Kerry campaign. Use it to write a LTTE, make a flyer with bullet points and hand it out.

Just do something besides throw up your hands and start whining the sky is falling.

[Gregorian]

81. I also just got off the phone with the Kerry campaign

It was the answering machine, and I didn't expect to get through. So I was totally unprepared.
But, I was one of "those" people. I ranted about how he better not get Gored, because we won't stand for it. And how these people he's up against are a gang of criminals who are not playing by the rules. They will fight dirty. So he had better get swinging with a hardball right now. I brought up GWH being in Dallas when JFK was killed, and Laura's car accident, and AWOL, and anythng else we can muster up in order to get these people with Crime Family Values, out of the WH.

I probably sounded like a madman. And after this regime, if you don't sound like one, you haven't been paying attention. I just hope Kerry is listening. We can't afford to lose.

[mbali]

82. Frankly, I think that "madmen" ranting about the JFK assassination

and Laura Bush's car accident are the people Kerry is LEAST likely to listen to.

Get a grip.

[Gregorian]

85. Yeah. I know.

It's really hard to take this. Some of us are type-A. And to have sat and watched Gore being a nice person, while those asshats stormed the recount room, just adds up to complete frustration.

I didn't rant, per say. I don't do that. I used the word rant, because I usually don't bring up crazy ideas like those. Ranting is what the entire country will be doing for decades, when the unelected people, take office. The appointed politicians. The supreme court appointees. And it goes even double for those who are on the business end of our military. My rant can't compare with those who will suffer, if bush gets elected. This is so serious, we can't afford to play nice. I know, I know, they are the pros. And it might take phd's in political science to play the campaign game properly.

At least my phone call got a sense of our urgency to them.

But I hear you.

[nagbacalan]

84. My local Democratic Club stands above "sign-offs" from informed

and willing club members on letters-to-the-editor. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory gives one such a sense of moral purity.

[Gregorian]

87. Zoom. Swooshhhh. That went right over my head.

Can you translate that for the dummy?
I actually have no idea what you just said. :)

(I may be educated in engineering, and I may be charged with energy on this subject, but I am not politically experienced. George just woke us up, and we are alive now. )

[mbali]

90. Don't feel bad - went right over my head, as well . . .

[mbali]

91. Don't feel bad - went right over my head, too . . .

[mondo joe]

88. I agree with you. This is Kerry's test for the electorate.

However undeservedly, democrats are often viewed as soft on defense.

I think that even people who think the Smearboaters are liars are looking to see how Kerry responds. This is a test.

Unfortunately Dems are responding in the worst Dem way - getting into the minutiae, haggling over details - as if this were a LEGAL problem rather than a POLITICAL one.

[Gloria]

89. The candidate himself has to come down from Mt. Olympus and start

delivering scathing comments about Bush. The media WILL cover him then, because they want to see a fight. This is what they've done in the past...
Make it about Bush's character, integrity and incompetence and back it up with the facts.

Forget all the long-winded plans.....you can get a lot of info about your plans as you go after Bush's "plans."

Really. It's already in the gutter, so Kerry has to show he can get into the trenches and fight mano a mano. If he hangs back he will be perceived as WEAK and that will be the biggest factor in his defeat...

Mark Shields said that Kerry hasn't faced a camera and shown righteous anger about being smeared about his medals, anger about his own feelings and on behalf of other vets. He needs to start doing that. If you can't defend your own honor, for yourself...then ......

[AuntPatsy]

92. Sure the media loves a fight but?

Did we all here not four years ago not watch the debate between Gore and Bush? And did we all not get thouroughly excited knowing the outcome of that debate went convincingly to Gore who blew him out of the water with his higher intelligence...

And what happened in the media the following week? I dont know about you but I am still trying to get over that faux of supposedly unbiased reporting..

Omg it was poor Bush and Gore is so mean...

WE need the MEDIA on our side..

[Gloria]

107. Sorry, Kerry has to speak directly and bluntly....they won't twist those

words if they're direct and to the point. It's all the wishy wash crap that gets him into trouble.

Look, It's the PERCEPTION of strength that is lacking here. People will follow someone who looks strong even if he's wrong...I believe that is a Clinton observation.

This bandaid thing is another opportunity. Get off the surfboard, stand in front of the cameras, and have at it.

"This disgraceful display shows the contempt they have for vets, me and all vets... Meanwhile, they exploit their sacrifices, then turn around and go after their benefits. They are hypocrites."

For God's sake, does it take $180 million to express that?????

[AuntPatsy]

94. edited

[mondo joe]

95. I'm emailing the campaign. Not another $ donated till I see results.

I've gotten hit for more donated $ several time in the last week.

I'm withholding my support - not another $ donated until I see some results.

I want Bush HIT and HIT HARD.

[grasswire]

97. more theater, more theater

The news outlets will cover Dems making news.

Example: Max Cleland going to Crawford.

More theater! More imagination! More mockery!

The campaign may not be able to get its message through the media filters in any other way.

[saracat]

103. You don't know how right you are!

Or maybe you do! It is all about "theatre".

[Democat]

113. The media will cover the Democrats if the Democrats make news

Your point is a good one.

[saracat]

100. This is about Perception ,Stupid!

Tp paraphrase a famous quote.Look like a winner and you will be a winner. It doesn't matter what you say or do.It doesn't matter what you believe. How others perceive you is what counts.Kerry let the opposition define him before he defined himself.Don't flame me about the fact he didn't have money.What he didn't have and still doesn't IMHo is talent at self promotion. For a campaign with all the Hollywood connetions they have ,this is stupidity.Get Harvey Weinstien and Speilberg to "create" a "new" Kerry and to do it quick before he harms himself.

[HootieMcBoob]

104. PERCEPTION IS REALITY!

We need to keep that as our number one priority.

[saracat]

110. Exactly

and that is why the Campaign needs to create a positive one!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

101. Get a grip on yourselves.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x701789

[GOPBasher]

105. No! Let moveon and ACT do the negative advertisting.

It will work just as well, plus Kerry can seem like he's above the frey and look good for his positive message. That's my opinion.

[Gloria]

108. They can only do so much....Kerry has to RECLAIM his own status...

This is the politics of personal destruction, so he has to make it personal. He has to defend and reclaim his honor, or else he will lose!!!

Some things you have to do yourself. His message of being a better leader won't work unless he show he is willing to fight for himself!!

[goldstone]

111. We have to hit back -- ourselves!

There's no question but that we have to fight harder.

But we can't leave it up to the campaign.

One small step towards doing it ourselves:

http://onesimplequestion.blogspot.com

[NightOwwl]

112. Is Hard-Hitting an acceptable term?

Because this is what I mean when I say go negative. I would never advocate the Rove technique of lies and smears. I am saying the campaign needs to package up some hard-hitting sound bites that the media will pick up on. Here is a great example where Kerry mocked and embarrassed BushCo to great effect:

When Bush changed his slogan to “We’re turning the corner”, Kerry immediately attacked it as an “itsy-bitsy” change. He used the slogan to his benefit, saying “they must be turning around in circles.” The next day the entire media was on it. It was in newspapers, all over the cable news shows, it was all the pundits were talking about. BushCo was floundering about, trying to defend the meaning of the now ridiculous sounding campaign slogan. Well, guess what? That slogan was gone in two days.

The RNC is offering numerous opportunities for hard-hitting comebacks. Think of our reaction when we saw the Purple Heart band aids, and when Giuliani talked about bodies falling out of buildings. We thought it was despicable, and I’m pretty sure most people would agree with us. I hope we see a reaction to this from the campaign, and I’m not talking about a press release.

Clark and Dean know how to hit hard. I wish we could see more of them.

And for those of you who think I just sit on my butt and whine:

I donate to MoveonPac and Kerry/Edwards at least once a month.

I write letters and phone various media shows daily.

I write LTE to my local paper. They only publish one letter a month by the same person, so I can't inundate them, but I do get my one letter a month published like clockwork.

I do what I can to help.

[Dhalgren]

118. You are a citizen and a voter,

you have the right to express your opinion, whatever it might be. You have good questions and sound concerns. Don't let the "personality slaves" squeal you into silence. If they were as strong in conviction as they are in their rhetoric, they would welcome your concerns as earnest and constructive.

Peace