Why, IMO, this election will be close, if we win it at all:

[DFW]

If logic and clean elections were both universal realities, then yes,
we should win this election 70-30. But they aren't.

If you want a frightening look at what we are really up against, peruse this board:

http://groups.msn.com/BabyBoomers/soundoff.msnw?action=get_threads

Get a good look at the ones Obama correctly surmised are "proud of their ignorance."
Oh, yes they are, and there is NOTHING we can do or say to convince them otherwise.
If McCain tells them their piss is wine, they will say yes, it is, and pause only
to inquire as to the year of vintage.

[smartvoter]

1. So, what? We roll over? Not a chance. nt

[DFW]

4. Not at all!

I'm just saying that it is not going to be the cakewalk it should be.
We are deluding ourselves if we think this election will be handed to
us on a silver platter just because logic and the interests of the
nation (and the world) say we should walk away with a landslide.

There are a LOT of ignorant, frightened people out there, ready to
believe ANYTHING the Republicans shove down their throats because
it's easier than thinking for themselves. If we laugh these people
off, we lose. We need every vote we can get.

[OneGrassRoot]

18. Spot on

"There are a LOT of ignorant, frightened people out there, ready to
believe ANYTHING the Republicans shove down their throats because
it's easier than thinking for themselves."

As are Obama's, that they're "proud of being ignorant."

I'd love to get a t-shirt with that on it, but in my very red, crazy right-wing area, I'd be at risk. Truly. And my daughter is terrified of my saying or doing anything. How said is THAT?!

There are "Obama is the antichrist" stickers all over the place.

Scary shit.

P.S. -- Maybe all the batshit crazy right-wing Rapture types can go to Alaska? I'd hate to see them rape a beautiful area, but they need to be sequestered somewhere.

[EstimatedProphet]

26. I absolutely agree with you there

30 years of Repub dumbing-down has taken its toll on Americans. The average person is afraid to think for themselves anymore.

[melody]

2. Oh, well, let's all throw in our towels ... it was a nice campaign while it lasted

Time to just abandon hope and accept our fate.

[TeamsterDem]

3. DFW, I fear I just lost IQ points through some vortex, traction beam kind of thing

Here's a quote from one of them: "To say that FOX is right winged is completely stupid. You can't tune into that channel without seeing an interview with people the likes of al sharpton, susan estritch, lani davis, kirsten powers, alan colmes, members of the new black panther party and other entities which are way far to the left of karl marx.

All of this kicking and screaming about right winged fascist types ( which no one can seem to locate anywhere ) being at FOX is completely lame and looney."

Goodness. What could I even say to that?

[DFW]

8. Exactly! That's the problem

These people live everywhere, all over the country, and they can all vote.
We dare not get complacent, because if we do, these fanatics (who look like
kindly Mother Hubbard, and you CAN'T tell) are in every town, and they ALL
vote, and unlike us, THEIR votes all seem to get counted.

Howard Dean is well aware of this, but he can't win this for us on his own.

We need EVERY vote we can muster, because every one of the nut cases you saw
on that board will vote, too. Notice how the one or two voices of sanity get
drowned out there? That is our uphill battle. Winnable? Absolutely. A cinch?
Sadly, no way José.

[TeamsterDem]

16. Yes sir! Absolutely correct.

I wish you were wrong. I wish Obama would win in a landslide. But I can't and won't assume anything until the race has been called (but I guess that wouldn't be an assumption then). Yogi Berra's truism has always proven accurate: "It ain't over 'till it's over." If we act like it's already over we'll get "Bushed" again. I've had enough of that poisonous little shrub and all of its thorns to risk allowing it to happen again.

[silverweb]

5. I'm afraid you're right. Very afraid.

Some of the people on that board could be members of my family.

There is NO discussing or reasoning with them.

[chknltl]

6. I believe in the citizens of America more than I believe in-

- the tricks of those who control the media. I doubt that you will find many here willing to give up and move to Iceland just yet. The GOOD FIGHT is one best done from inside, this one ain't over yet!

[the Sundance Kid]

7. eeeeeeek!

[DFW]

10. In a word, exactly!!

That's pretty much my reaction. Welcome to the Middle America we wish were only our nightmare.

[GrizzlyMan]

9. Obama will win, and it won't be close (nT)

[DFW]

11. If common sense were universal, I'd agree with you

But look at some of the posts. Logic is nowhere to be seen.
Hate, fear, ignorance--these are our worst enemies, and they
are around in abundance.

[GrizzlyMan]

13. I don't need to read posts from a message board to tell me what to think

Whether it be this board, freeperville or some right leaning baby boomer internet ho-down. I know what my gut tells me. It told me we would win in '92, it told me we would lose in 2000 and 2004. It tells me we will win this year.

I'm not trying to be coy, and I understand some have concerns, but I don't subscribe to them. I have no reason to.

[DFW]

15. Here's hoping your gut is right one more time!!

[MilesColtrane]

34. .

[Indi Guy]

12. Obama is a fascinating choice & the right one for most Americans...

Policies:

Get out of Iraq -- while focusing on Afghanistan...
Repeal tax cuts for big business
Pro Choice (most women are Pro Choice)
Reverse NAFTA
....& much more...

[DFW]

14. You're betting on people voting in their own best interests

Many do not. That is the big problem.

[Indi Guy]

20. I think most Americans are tired of voting against their best interests..

$4.00 gas has a way of bringing that point home...

[DFW]

23. Many, but far from all

Did you see those posts? They are from middle- to lower-income white people
who would rather die of diabetes with no health care than let Obama steal
Christmas from them and abort their children's children. This is really
how they think, and they say that $4 gas in the Democrats' fault because
it happened after 2006.

Again, Obama is exactly right: they are proud of their ignorance.
In many cases, that is all some of them have left.

[madmax]

66. If I didn't know any better

I would swear I knew those posters when I lived in a blue state of NJ. Although I now live in a fairly blue area of NC I've met many like minded bots here, too.

It's going to be all about the ground game - GOTV. Don't stop until we're there. I thought Kerry was a wrap and look what happened.

[bdamomma]

28. I would love to prove my husband (who is not American) wrong on this election

that Americans are very naive, and gutless. It won't be close, we know this will be a battle, but we must do everything to get people out to vote in record numbers.

[AspenRose]

69. Me too

A friend in New Zealand thinks McCain will win. He's lived here for several years and went back home recently.

[quantass]

17. Beating Hillary who was better financed and well-known is a huge accomplishment that should never

be forgotten..He did the impossible and he is still leading McCain....who knows if he will win but when you listen to Obama/Biden you cant help but listen...they are genuine.

[DFW]

19. Again--under normal circumstances, it would be a no-brainer for us

But Obama/Biden being not only genuine, but competent and clearly the
best choice for the country isn't going to win it for us alone.

Remember the story of the woman who called out to Adlai Stevenson:

"You have the support of every thinking American!"

and Stevenson's reply: "That's not enough. I need a majority!"

Times haven't changed.

[Monk06]

21. If they can keep it to a statistical tie (within 3% margin of error) you may be right

If Obama maintains an 8 to 10 point advantage
I don't think they can steel it without a
ballot by ballot recount. And no SC interference
this time.

Still it will come down to the close swing states.

Arnold not showing up at the convention puts Cali
in the Dem column for sure. IMO

[DFW]

24. I'd be amazed--thrilled, but amazed--to see him up by 8% on election day

The RNC has way more money in the bank than the DNC, and Obama can't be in twenty
places a day at the same time. Plus, I would be surprised to see that any "debates"
will be run in a purely objective fashion--pleasantly surprised, but surprised all
the same. This SHOULD be a landslide, but it probably won't be. Read those people's
posts. They are deranged, but they vote.

[elkston]

30. Really surprised you don't have more faith in Obama/Biden

Why the defeatist attitude?

It may be "close", but I am confident we will win. Why can't you be the same way?

Have you seen the team we have? You don't think they can win voters? If even half the new voters we have signed up come out, its good news.

Have you been for Obama all along or are you just pissed that he won and this is your way to "bring him down to earth".

[DFW]

38. We had all better get down to earth

I was there in Denver. I have not only seen the team we have, but met them, and Howard
Dean happens to be a friend from many years back. It's not that we are deficient. It's
that we are up against a huge number of very scared, hate-filled people who vote, and
really believe it when they hear on National Hate Radio that Obama will take away their
guns, kill their babies and abolish Christmas.

Don't start in with this divisive crap about me not being with the party. I was with
the party before you were in diapers, and think it foolish to underestimate what we
are up against. Half the new voters are good news IF we get them to vote and IF those
votes are counted. We are up against an opposition that will nullify that advantage
any way they can, and it can only be overcome by organizing as vast a turnout as we can.
Don't think McCain's handlers don't know that.

[Chan790]

58. I'm unconcerned because...

the vocal minority has never scared me.

We're winning the war, and we're winning every single battle. Our candidate is Barack Obama...a man of hope who strikes me as being a good deal tougher than either Kerry or Gore. He's not going to roll over or back down. He can be magnanimous now that he's leading by a good margin because it makes him opponents look desperate and if it gets close by election day, I have zero doubt the gloves will come off and he will pummel the old man like a punch-drunk palooka into a sobbing mess on the floor. McCain may have been a POW, but Obama came out of Chicago precinct politics where campaigning is a bloodsport.

[Awsi Dooger]

22. Open races are always close

When was the last time a Democrat won an open race by margin?

This cimate might have been somewhat comfy until we isolated a woman or black atop the ticket. That's an automatic regulator, sad to say.

[bdamomma]

25. why are we calling our defeat, isn't that kind of premature of us to

think that, we did it in 2004 and let us not get into that mindset again, we have to fight these SOB's.

Right now the other side is playing us saying we are in a panic because of choice for McCain's VP, can we prove them wrong.

[DFW]

27. No one is calling our defeat. This is a call to arms

Vigilance and GOTV are absolutely VITAL to our winning, because there is a huge
force of inertia out there that wants no change at all. They are not well off,
they are not well-treated by the Republicans they adore, but they are VERY
susceptible to RW propaganda, and deaf to anything that deviates from it.

The sooner everyone realizes that common sense fails to convince a lot of voters
the better our chances are to do something about it.

[NoFederales]

37. THIS boomer has arms, and is being edged towards a position as paladin. nt

NoFederales

[DFW]

43. I sometimes wonder if that is not exactly the direction in which we are headed?

[NoFederales]

48. If the R's steal another one, it may be the only way out. nt

NoFederales

[renie408]

29. Why is it that people always want to think that they are in the minority? That THEY are the only

ones who 'get it'? At the DU, everybody seems to think that the Democratic Party is some secret club that only the cool kids know about.

Maybe there are more people 'like us' out there than you think there are. We need to talk to them and simply do the best we can to avoid alienating the lost causes.

[DFW]

31. Being in the majority isn't enough

It has to be a significant majority, and we need to register every possible voter
and get them to the polls on election day AND have their votes counted. Being right
isn't enough in today's America, as the last 2 elections have shown.

[renie408]

39. So, why is it that some people feel the need to beat their breasts

even when things are looking up?

Look, you have as much angst as you need to feel bad about things and beat your head against a wall and go out in the rain and scream silently up into uncaring void if that is how you need to approach this election. Me? I am going to spread the joyous good news about Obama, try to get those voters registered and go at it from a slightly more upbeat angle.

Cause I got news, my friend...either way, whatever happens...happens. From this moment on, I choose to be positive.

I do want to thank you. I woke up feeling less psyched than I have been for the past couple of days. Reading your posts have helped me to crystallize some of my own feelings.

[renie408]

32. Did you look over that WHOLE board? There is a fair degree of back and forth

and it isn't 'all McCain, all the time'. I read at least one pretty thoughtful exchange between Dems and Repukes. I am not sure that one message board is backing your 'the US is filled with knuckle draggers who don't get it' theory.

[DFW]

47. The "back and forth," as you put it, is lopsided

I used to hang around there, and still pop in to watch, obviously.
There is one poster who is a vet and is informed, and now hates Bush
and his party, but fell for their line and voted Bush in 2000. There
is one other who despises the far right, but just goes in to give
them a hard time because he doesn't like the individuals left on
the board. But there is a very angry and hateful core of people on
that board who I find to be very representative of the far right here,
and that is what I consider to be our biggest obstacle, other than
organized electoral fraud.

I love coming home and being with friends and family. I have been home
in the States now since July, and I have been to L.A., Dallas, Maryland,
Massachusetts, Denver, Dallas again, Washington/Northern Virginia, New
Jersey and New York. I leave tonight to go on station overseas again
until the end of the year. I hope to return to a better country. I expect
to return to a country whose president-elect is named Obama. I also have
long ago learned to expect that which is unexpected.

[high density]

33. So the idiots want to vote against their own self interest

That is nothing new. If they can't realize now that Republicans do not care about running this country in a proper manner then they will never realize it. Obama is aware of this and that's why he's so focused on registering new voters. We need to expand the pool of voters, because we already know that it's very full of idiots that gave us Bush twice.

[DFW]

51. Exactly. I'm just saying this will not happen on its own.

Inertia is our enemy here.

[Occam Bandage]

35. Oh, no! There exist Republicans! Clearly we cannot win in face of the existence of Republicans!

I'm just going to go home now.

[renie408]

42. OH MY GOD!! **running in circles. clutching hair** You mean there are still CONSERVATIVES out there?

Yeah...seems kind of weird to freak out over conservatives in America.

[goclark]

36. The Voting Fraud is the only reason we won't win

just like the last two election.

This time they have even more reason to do it. They know this is their last stand and they are desperate.

[No Elephants]

40. We will win. And hound your mayors, Governors, Election Boards, etc. for a paper trail!

[DFW]

46. True! Nationwide participation and activism is what we need

[goclark]

54. Our gov is Arnold

I live in "Cal E Four Ne A" but you are right we need a clear plan spelled out by the OBAMA campaign NOW.

[DFW]

59. I agree

We are still on our high from Denver, and need to keep the ball rolling.
The election campaign wasn't won with Denver, it was started with Denver.
I listened to David Plouffe talk. They know what they want to do, but it
has to be one continuous coordinated marathon of momentum. I didn't watch
the Republican convention, but I heard it was pretty lame compared with Denver.
I mean compare Bush's video with Bill Clinton. No contest. But it has to be
maintained. I have to be back in Europe tomorrow, but I hope to see a continuous
stream of events, speeches and media dominance through election day, all with
a clear optimistic Obama message. This can and should be won, but it is by no
means inevitable. No one is handing this election to us on a silver platter,
especially when the other side thinks God gave THEM the silver platter.

[DFW]

41. A huge turnout on our part can nullify that

And I think that is the ONLY thing that can nullify it. They ARE desperate, but
a cornered wounded beast is at its most dangerous.

[renie408]

44. PEOPLE!! READ THE BOARD HE LINKED TO!! Not all of the posts were 'bad'.

In fact, I read several that were pro-Obama. I am not going to go dissect that board, but it was no Free Republic. I am not sure it even makes the OP's case.

[DFW]

50. I used to belong to that board

There are two, count 'em, posters who regularly try to go against the tide, but
they are NOT representative of the board's sentiment as a whole.

[renie408]

52. OK, for chrissakes, if you are determined to wring your hands, far be it from me

to take that fun away from you.

[renie408]

53. Just think...this election is a win/win for you. If we lose, you get so say "I told you so" and if

we win, you get to rejoice with everybody else!!

Honestly, you may have something there...

[DFW]

55. If we lose, I'm probably applying for asylum in Germany

[Neecy]

45. You're scared of Bush's 28%?

I'm on a board that has some of these mouth-breathers as well - they call him "Barry Hussein" and make lots of racist comments. It's a small handful but they're vocal and rude.

I think it's safe to write off the RW base. That leaves us with 60-65% of the rest of the country. I'll take those chances.

[DFW]

49. I'd love for your numbers to be correct

I wish I could be like that Star Trek character who could just say "Make it so."
But I'm not. We need a few million activists to make it so. Are they out there?

[Neecy]

57. Well, what are you doing?

I'm doing voter registration in Kansas City every weekend - and if we register enough voters in the cities and suburbs Obama will win Missouri. And if you get out and talk to people, they're hurting and angry. I'm SO not afraid of a few RW nuts on a message board.

[DFW]

61. I have to leave tonight to go back on station in Europe

I meet with the Democrats Abroad to try to register as yet unregistered Americans
overseas. I won't be back until after Christmas, barring unforeseen job-related
travel or catastrophic illness in family Stateside.

[apnu]

56. That's the 30-percenters that have keep Bush out of the teens in the polls

The real concern for this election is where those above the 30 percent mark will go. Namely independents, libertarian and Rockefeller Republican types. The social liberals so to speak. The ones who toed the line for Bush while holding their noses.

The trick for the Obama camp will be to make McCain-Palin so nauseating that they can't hold their noses anymore and vote 3rd party or for Obama.

[DFW]

60. Very true, but keep this in mind

We are up against far more than the 30-percenters here. There are plenty of RW Republicans
who are only angry with Bush because he failed. They are outside the 30%--the 30% are only
those who don't yet realize that Bush has failed. There are many, many more out there who
know he did, but wish he had not.

[apnu]

63. Right, I do. Which is why its so important to paint McCain as the same as Bush

They'll have a lot of trouble pulling the lever for McCain when all they can see is Bush III.

[iconicgnom]

62. This just shows why Obama is right to keep his campaign steady on topic, to drill the issues home.

Not to win over the dumbest of the dumb, but to provide bedrock reference points (a narrative) for the average thoughtful/thoughtless would be voter who's going to be bombarded with trivia and distractions and superficial "analysis".

Not easy, but doable enough to win the election.

[DFW]

64. "not easy, but doable"

That pretty much sums up how I see it, with an emphasis on the "not easy" part!

[crispini]

65. Lord, I hope you're wrong, but my gut says, esp. with Palin on the ticket

to energize the fundie base, I think you may be right.

On to work! :kick:

[codjh9]

67. I can't even go read that. My blood pressure would go through the roof. But

I know that MANY of the Right can't be swayed by ANY facts, logic, anything. It's mind-boggling. Maddening. Crazy!

[Orsino]

68. The depth of their hatred won't make it close.

Close will depend on how widespread it is.