Today, I am ashamed to be a DU member

I've been here a long time. Not a prolific poster, but a prolific reader. And from what I've read today, I don't belong here anymore.

Women being bashed for their right to choose having a family and a career with the support of their spouse.

Women being called sluts, bimbos and brood mares.

Women having their appearance dissected and witchhunts for compromising photos.

Innocent young girls being slandered with rumors & innuendos.

Enough. I want to win. But I don't want to win this way. And if you do, then I don't want any part of it.

I feel exactly the same way! It is such a turn off.

What's gotten into you?

(To be clear, I agree with you right down the line.)

for McCain to even entertain the possibility to select a VP that could ruin this country even more than he would, if something were to happen to the old coot. I can remain above the fray.. But I think her disrespect to Hillary supporters is astounding and bellow the belt.. to suggest that she has been an advocate for women and a leader in this nation on issues that really do mean so much to Hillary is absolutely disgusting. I really have no respect for either. Its political pandering and it could ruin this country... if they manage to steal another election.

made racist comments about the Obamas?

between a troll and DU member in good standing.

Can you?

Just asking?

parentage. I don't understand the poster's "disappointment"

I know you were probably referring to HRC's being trashed, but my point is that why was she not outraged for our Democratic candidates? (And that may have been your point also.)

One thing does not excuse the other.

Let's condemn all things contemptible if that is what they are.

nowhere in winning this election! The high road doesn't win elections! Period!

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are not best met with more lies and distortion.
The way to fight back and fight back hard is always from the high ground.

about something she's heard on the T.V or the radio ..... my first question is always "Who said that" .... and I sometimes relay that type of thinking to DU. Check out a few posts I found yesterday through the search function which drove me away from this thread .... for awhile anyway to see how it played out.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

This one threw me for a loop .... as it relates to this present thread??
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

There's more but draw your own conclusions ...... or don't? Just makes ya wonder about those who sew discord on messages boards. Defending the other side whatever the topic, seeds of doubt etc ... etc...

I don't know maybe all these things are really relevant concerns to the OP? Peace.

And thanks! When I see these kinds of posts I don't take the time to read very often. BUT I am glad that ppl like you watch and spot the pattern....truly, thank you.

PS If I miss the delivery of the pizza, please email me. TY.

This place is chaos. It always has been. People post shit, think better of it, sometimes retract it, sometimes don't. It's a lunatic asylum where, every so often, something useful and good floats to the top of a sea of nonsense.

Now please excuse me, I see many potential candidates for my ignore list here!

I'm shocked, such hypocrisy from the same people who were offended by the thought of waving keys to spotlight McCain's seven to twelve homes.

Actullay, not shocked at all as far as bandwangons go.

Question: If they had waved the keys, do you think the media would be trying to portray McCain as someone with PTSD?

They're both right-wing, inexperienced, incompetent tools.

Not knowing her, I don't know if she more often wears dresses or pantsuits, but that's my only quibble.

How about "female" Dan Quayle....?

But seriously. She has enough REAL issues and reasons that thinking people wouldn't vote for her that we don't need to devolve in our commitment to supporting women in their choices.

We need better jokes, higher brow humor. Or something.

But I don't think the Quayle comparison is sexist - I think it's accurate.

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respects them.

Oh sure, the Dems are by far better than the Rethugs. But I will never fortget the heartache I have felt over the sexism that was rampant among Dems - and atrocious here at DU.

though.

you are defending the wrong team

The poster is not defening Palin; she's defending principles and procedure. Why is that so hard to understand? You can attack Palin all you want, as long as you restrict it to issues/policy/positions. But to get into bashing of her because of her appearance or her choice not to stay home with her kids, etc. verges on personal attacks that we ourselves would decry if done against a female Dem.

I am a firm believer in fairness in our political dealings. The ends do not justify the means. So if a certain tactic is vile when done by your opponent, it is vile when you do it.

I'll be honest -- other than hearing the name, I didn't know a blessed thing about Palin until today. So I'll do some reading over the weekend. I will not join the pitchfork crowd in attacking this woman for being a pageant winner or a mom with small kids.

The Repukes have CRUCIFIED Obama with a SMEAR campaign this entire election, and it is time to strike back--something that the Repukes did not expect. Do you honestly believe that Palin was McInsane's pick all along? McCain's slogan about "Country First" is a joke! He dumped his faithful wife for a TROPHY wife rodeo beauty queen - all for political ambition, and he's doing it again! And I can just about guarantee you that his advisors were opposed to it. I think she was an 11th hour choice out of desperation - all for political gain, he hopes. So, it looks to me that McInsane is pulling out all the stops, and it's every man for himself. HUGE gamble that speaks of his decision-making capabilities, IMO. Palin also has some skeletons in her closet, and we have less than 2 months to dig them out and use them against her. That's just the way it is. Again, look at what the Repukes have done to Obama.

If the Dems keep taking the high road to nowhere, we will never take back the White House. Look what happened to Kerry....to Howard Dean....if we don't fight back, we look weak. And I am not interested in nuances. We are in it to win it, and it won't be pretty if we are serious about winning.

I AM a woman, and I can't imagine ANY woman with an infant or small children even CONSIDERING the VP role, particularly after Palin has played up her role as "just a hockey mom....." etc. And this hockey mom is one heartbeat away from becoming the POTUS!?!

NOTE: Michelle Obama is not running for office - she will continue to be the wife to the President and mother to their children. The demands are not the same as that of the VP.

want us to behave like Republicans. Do you really believe in Obama or do you just pay lip service to hope and change.

MY interpretation of hope and change = no more rich war-mongering rich-get-richer-poor-get-poorer Repuke crooks in the WH = Obama taking our country in a new direction = hope and change.
Obama has to WIN to take the White House.

Here is the thing. I don't think anyone should be attacking her on certain things, but if she wants to force 1950's values on the rest of the women in this country, then I think she should live by them herself. I have always been disgusted with RW women who are all out to keep other women from having the rights that they themselves have all the benefits of. If she, like the RW men, make decisions on how the rest of the women in this country can live their lives, then she should set a good example and be that perfect June Cleaver mother she still believes in.

If Palin is lying, repeatedly on the public record about her pregnancy, it's very much a matter of public concern.

That was the thing with John Edwards. Not what happened but 1. He deliberately and repeatedly mislead the public and 2., knowing the history of Gary Hart and others, willfully put the Democratic Party at risk, and in doing so the Republic.

Sarah Palin's candidacy, gives every indication of not being properly vetted.

This is an innocent 17 year old girls reputation that's being bashed.

Newsflash. Teenagers surf the net. They love to gossip. Do you have any how devasting this will be to her daughter once these "rumors" get out? Palin is a big girl and she will address what needs addressing. But her kid? You really think this is OK?

Because I hated it.

Chelsea was inundated with lies. Chelsea is not a public figure. Questioning whether Palin lied about her pregnancy, the pregnancy she said was hers, is questioning statement by a public official on the public record.

Why would she lie, Not so much to protect her daughter. She portrays her self as a super moral fundamentalist, and a model mom. "Saint Sarah" they call her up there. If she is lying she is protecting HER own political career.

If you can't see how these RUMORS would hurt her, then I can help you.

herself, herself, herself - AS GOVERNOR ON THE PUBLIC RECORD. Why can't you see the problem.

THAT HER 17 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER IS THE MOTHER! IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT PALIN!

If you can't understand how that sort of thing would affect her daughter, I give the fuck up trying to explain it!

cap lock off. i need a drink.

You were the one who brought Chelsea up.

-----

News flash on the picture. If YOU were trying to hide an unplanned pregnancy, would YOU wear a tight shirt?

Or would you dress as Sarah was in that picture, in loose-fitting clothing? Like most pregnant women do?

I'll also say this. Not all pregnant women get as big as a house. My friend whose daughter I proudly call my god-niece was still able to hide her "bump" with clothing if she wanted to even after six months. She was built very much like Sarah in that pre-pregnancy she was very slender. She is relatively tall, about 5'6, but I don't know how tall Sarah is. Her baby shower was when she was 6 and 1/2 months pregnant and if she hadn't chosen to wear a clothing style specifically showing off her belly, no one would have known. As a matter of fact, it was only during the last two weeks of pregnancy that she gained most of her weight -- she gained 15 lbs in water weight during the last two weeks of her slightly more than full term pregnancy, and that was because she went into preeclampsia.

It is reported that Palin's son was born slightly premature, at only eight months along. Given my friend's experiences, I can believe that she didn't show all that much, and was able to hide it with skillful clothing if she chose. Admittedly most women who had kids saw my friend's experience with weight in pregnancy and were all horribly jealous -- at least until she became "the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Woman" as she called it near the end due to the preeclampsia -- but not all women, even slender ones, show a great deal. Additionally, most babies with Down's Syndrome, even if they are full-term, have a low birth weight for gestational age.

-----

In a way, you are correct that there is no comparison between what Chelsea went through as First Daughter and what these rumors suggest.

... and yes, I will go here, because I saw someone else go there with this when asking about if Down's Syndrome was related to "interfamily" relationships. And I hope you all will forgive the imagery.

This is much more like suggesting that the blue dress was actually worn by Chelsea and put into Monica's closet to protect Bill.

And now I need to go throw up, to think that our party is actually pulling this bull.

Thom Hartmann discussed this rumor on national radio today.

It was my intent in my thread (which I deleted and requested locked) was to analyze the "proof" that Thom Hartmann's guest presented today.

I doubt seeing it on the internet will be that huge a shock.

ago. This story seems to have emerged and been pushed all at once, in response to Palin becoming McCain's running mate.

I did find comments on Alaskan sites and blogs criticizing Palin for her pregnancy as soon as she announced it in March -- saying on the one hand that she shouldn't have become pregnant because it would interfere with her duties as governor, and on the other that she became pregnant to help her approval ratings -- but there were no hints that anyone thought this was a fake pregnancy. And there was a comment on one site and a picture on another about her wearing dark, baggy clothing and scarves for a while before the announcement, with no one bothering to wonder what that might mean.

If this rumor has supposedly been around for a while, I'd like to see some proof of that.

http://www.reddit.com/comments/6f3nq/coverup_alaska_gov...

Messages from two anonymous posters on one site?

hey now, I'm overweight! LOL

and gave birth, then the gossip is probably already out there. My sister had a baby when I was a teenager, and when I quit school the gossip spread like wildfire. The two had nothing to do with each other and did not even happen at the same time, but that did not matter to the gossipers. :0

But I do agree this is one thing that doesn't need to be discussed and is not something I want to be a part of it. Leave it to the National Enquirer.

What's more disgusting -- an implication that :gasp: a teenager might have had sex and gotten pregnant or being said teenager and having your own mother be so ashamed of you that she would herself fake a pregnancy and claim your baby as her own? Teenagers have sex and get pregnant. That's not the issue here, the issue is, did Palin FAKE a pregnancy and lie to the world in an attempt to cover up what might have been slightly politically embarrassing for her? It's not a brave motherly thing to fake a pregnancy. A brave mom would say "my daughter is pregnant and this is a personal matter" and that brave mom wouldn't give a shit whether it caused political fallout. Faking a pregnancy borders on psycho if you ask me. I don't know whether this story is true or not but this is huge and because there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that seems fishy I think this needs to be looked at and discredited if it is false (and an apology to Palin for suggesting she's a lying psychopath) or brought to the light of day. This isn't a PTA position we're talking about, this is a position that could put Palin one heartbeat away from leadership of the entire country.

The daughter is innocent regardless of whether this baby story is true or not. It's not her reputation that's at risk here, it's Palin's.

This part of the story needs to be investigated because if it is true it is a lie of such magnitude that it makes Palin unfit to be trusted with leadership.

... i mean, these type of rumors are the VERY sort of thing that the PUMA/Right Wing is dishing out against Barack.

Gimme a break.

Oops, sorry. That's McCain.

that I have not clicked on the nasty stuff you've had to be exposed to today. Sorry some are so insensitive and crass. No excuse for it. Be well and hope the shitstorm ends soon.

Pfft.

It only makes you look like a guilty party who has to resort to attacking the messenger rather than the message. Ad hominem indeed.

Yeah there's always people who go over the line.

Pretending it's a movement worthy of a nanny's scolding is transparent.

.

It's no surprise that the immediate reaction of a few hard core kooks was to go after Palin's womb and her children instead of her policies.

With two months left to the election it is going to get A LOT worse (from both sides) before it gets better.

There is a nasty side of DU and it's out in full force today.

from last night and from the gift of an utterly inexperienced VP pick on the other side. Once they sober up, hopefully they'll realize how stupid some of their posts were.

a male veep choice would have brought out the same vitriol

Seriously, as a "prolific reader", you haven't seen this here dozens of times before?

Give it a few days and it'll die down...it always does.

Belated, but warm.

I swear, they need to post the join date alongside the post count.

I could not take the primaries, so I stayed away till they were over.

I saw enough of this crap during the primaries. And where did it get the dems? It left them with a lot of disenchanted Hillary supporters who McCain is actively courting.


BTW-you forgot 'whore' I saw a poster calling Sarah a whore today.

and four nieces whom I don't wish to see stripped of their reproductive rights. Fuck fair, I just want to win.

concerned also, but I will not fall into the cess pool of demeaning women like i have seen here on Du.

...then you guarantee your own disappointment.

Modify your expectations to match reality and your problem will disappear.

AND, lives literally depend upon McCain not winning, so please prioritize what you choose to find outrageous.

eom.

would be insanity.

But that does not preclude my speaking out against behaviour that I find to be offensive.


Free speech anat...

I have been attacked for my faith on here, but it's representative of DU, just a small percentage of posters, but as long as it doesn't go overboard, it's their right to say they disagree with me. Now, overt sexual jokes, and strong mocking of Palin being female is not permitted, and should be simply alerted.

There's others of us that feel the way you do. This kind of discussion comes up often. There are too many (in my opinion) on this board who haven't integrated the values of the Democratic Party. We need to call them on it.

I'm just sayin...

B2G,

This DU is a big tent. Full of people of all stripes -- which inevitably means of all "prejudices" - and all levels of principle and intellectual honesty.

The current political environment (on ALL sides, although NOT all people on all sides) - is to attack the person, not the ideas or decisions.

And, there are those misguided people who look at the past few years and think that the only way to win is through personal destruction.

The thing is, it's people like YOU - who are disgusted and appalled at this type of sh*t, that make the difference.

So - be proud. Be proud that you stood up here and condemned these types of posts.

And - be strong. Keep saying it. Start posting responses! Consider it practice ... responding to ignorance with intelligent thought is how we're going to win in November.

It's people like you that keep me coming back.

My 22 year old Young Republican co-worker is all hyped and excited because McCain picked a beauty queen running mate, and I nearly barfed.

But I have noticed that there are guys who liked Bush because they thought his daughters were hot babes. It's a guy thing, and even though I "understand", it makes me squirm.

SOME guys just don't know how to not see gender. It's not in their programming. The best they can do is put the thought aside after it happens, and reach for a better one. And when the woman is attractive, the pause between thought #1 and thought #2 gets bigger.

Having sexually related thoughts about an attractive woman running for president is not restricted to Republican males. Clearly, Democratic males do to.

Give them 72 hours to get it out of their systems. We're all in shock right now. If, after Labor Day, they are still making ridiculous sexist comments, then it might be time to find a more feminist site.

Not all Democrats are feminists.

comments like you quote above appear on DU every day- there is nothing new.

I've been here a few seasons myself, and I've come to understand that there will be some really outrageous statements made, in ways that I find very offensive, but they are a part of our American society.

I personally, find the choice of Sarah Palin to be offensive to ALL women. She was chosen ONLY because she is a woman, and was chosen over other far more appropriate, qualified and experienced WOMEN because she is more visually appealing than they were.

I find this FACT offensive, degrading and infuriating.


I also, as mother, feel that I have every right to voice my perspective on her choice to drag her family, including a four month infant into the chaos and frenzy of a Presidential campaign. I believe it is a selfish, poorly thought through decision. And I don't think my chosing to say that is in any way 'sexist' or a mandate that women cannot work outside the home.

I'm not ashamed of DU- If someone says something I feel is wrong, or offensive, I have the chance to offer my reasons for why I disagree- or not. Shame is personal. If you are ashamed, what have you done to cause you to feel that way, or what are you doing to help you NOT feel that way?

You choose your path. I've seen only the threads talking about the sexism, and I've read several threads today. So, in saying I realize they're there, they're clearly not even remotely the majority! Take a break if it bothers you, but you'll be back, as 95% of us are compassionate respectable people. And even half of the other 5% are just making silly remarks that they know better than to do, the other people are just wrong...

take care!



"We are more compassionate than a government that lets veterans sleep on our streets and families slide into poverty. That sits on its hands while a major American city drowns before our eyes.

Tonight, tonight, I say to the people of America, to Democrats and Republicans and independents across this great land: Enough!"

Obama/Biden items at www.cafepress.warisprofitable

We have learned the wrong lessons from our enemies

And leaving a Downs infant to run for VP is not in line with my values.

Sorry, if you don't like it, but it is a real belief that I have.

I got some static here for suggesting that putting career over family could be a problem for Palin with some voters. While I personally believe that when it comes to job and family, each women ought to be free to make her own choices, I think it's fair to take a look at where Palin's priorities lie.

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Not really that long to most around here. Looks like you just want to stir the pot up by injecting sexism into the debate. Nice try but Palin is being bashed because of her inexperience. If there are a few sexist comments around then grow up and deal with it. Go vote for McCain if it offends you and enjoy setting women's rights back 40 years. That makes sense.

Anywhere you go in life there's always a certain percentage of a**holes. Let's say it's 10% for the sake of argument. So at work you have 10% a-holes, at school-10%, in politics-10% & here at DU-10%. It's not even that people are bad, but that they sometimes react badly without thinking about how it looks & then often the mob mentality follows. (With Repubs, I think the theory is reversed - 10% are normal!)

That being said, folks do have the right to think about personal choices Palin has made although they are not particularly relevant, IMO to the election. Many repubs questioned John Edwards decision to continue campaigning with a sick & dying wife. I didn't completely agree with them, but can understand that others might make a different choice particularly when you consider the stress & time involved in a Presidential campaign & the job itself. I think the Palin situation is the same thing.

You'd have to go live the life of a hermit to entirely avoid racism, sexism, ageism, etc. Those undesireabe traits exist everywhere. Better to stand up and be vocal against that stuff than retreat. Ashamed to be a DU'er? Bullshit I say.

Is precisely what McPOW is banking on.

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How nice of some broad-brushing DUers to give you an opening to start this thread.

Good luck upping your post count.

They're not even trying anymore.

She CHOSE to do that. And there are consequences to your choices in life. A woman who wants to be governor, VP or President does NOT pose like that.

Women's liberation is NOT about the liberty to appear half clothed. It's about women being treated with dignity and respect.

It's about women NOT being treated as sex objects. It's NOT about MAKING women sex objects, as if they have nothing MORE to contribute to society.

every time.

Ignore function is your friend.

The same people come out of the woodwork and make it a big deal whenever possible. Try to look at it this way - there are far more people like you and me who find the discourse to be ugly.

There are some very mean spirited and immature posters here but they are the minority. They are very vocal though and they get away with name calling and brutal attacks. I suppose they donate more than I do and that is why they are allowed to stay.

This. is. an. online. message. and. discussion. board. This is not a church social. It will get nasty and messy.

And for the record, I basically agree with you. However, DU is what it is. Leave it, accept it and/or change it.

Be the solution and write something constructive to initiate change. But please, save the righteous indignation and over-the-top hyperbole.

during the primaries. If not, better late than never, I guess.

but we're not going to sit here and listen to you bad-mouth the United States of America! Gentlemen!

You should work on that problem. It's a personal matter.

just asking. Oh and this is politics. I guess we should play by your rules.

Don't let the door hit ya, leave, you've only been here 2 years, all from the usual. How warm and welcoming, how progressive, how big tent. Of course, I could just hide the thread.

and that's wrong. (i mean bias related to innate characteristics that are not relevant)

i'll bet many don't intend to do that, but do. if you point it out, thoughtful people will avoid the behavior.

Some of yesterday's threads were bash-fests; some were just plain old childish. There's a little 12-year-old in all of us and I think it became apparent yesterday. How many times was I tempted to join in? Hundreds. I resisted (well... mostly... I caved a couple of times). Oy!

then it's a legit issue and guess what? The nearly adult daughter would HAVE to be an active participant, so she can deal with it too.

I think the focus should be on her being a rabid Theocrat/Corporate Fascist but being a liar and becoming an anchor because of it is a good thing for us.

Taking her off the board would put a hurting on them.

I am disgusted enough as it is.

That's why the Dems continue to lose elections, IMO. We "take the high road" to nowhere!

I always knew the level of sexism here and this validates my suspicions. See the problem is that is is enabled from the top down. I can hate Failing as a repuke but just because she is a woman is no reason to hate her.

And if you did, I apologize.

There's so many things wrong with Sarah Palin that I don't think we need to attack her over things like that... ...I mean, the jokes write themselves by virtue of the policies she advocates.

Former Illinois Senator Carol Mosley Braun was elected primarily by women of both parties, including the very Republican DuPage County, angered by incumbent Senator Alan Dixon's confirmation of Clarence Thomas and the treatment of Anita Hill in the hearings.

Surely the more sensible solutions is alert or block than to totally throw in the towel. In everyday life you'll find a sexist or a racist why it would be diffent on here is confusing. We just march on and get to work for the greater good as Hillary has shown the fine and gracious example.

Hillary " If the dogs are backing keep going." Giving up isn't what Hillary advised.

We can go after them but just simply with facts than made up smear really.

It was once a haven. Today I fear posting. Because I don't want to be judged by association.

Ideals that we once decried have become the norm. DU was a place "we" could go to find progressives with similar values and ideals in the crazy through-the-looking-glass-world of Bush and his followers.

We have become what we once decried.

and you want to go easy on her because she's a girl. She could be fucking President and she believes the earth is 6000 years old. Our Presidents 200 years ago didn't believe that.

I don't want to talk about how she is a whore or a slut or talk about her vagina.

I want to discuss issues, not reduce ourselves to arguments invented and perfected by those fundis you seem to want to emulate.

I had that surgically removed in law school.