what IF on the "biggest mistake" question during the debate. .

[eileen from OH]

one of the guys who'd voted for the IWR would have just come out and admitted that THAT was their biggest mistake?

Yeah, I know, Lieberman doesn't believe it WAS a mistake, and neither does Kerry (I guess) and Gephardt is in all those damn Rose Garden pictures which were, evidently, taken on the odd moments he wasn't in conference with George Tenet. And Edwards doesn't get the flack, but he voted for it too. But, wow, just imagine the splash that woulda made if one of 'em woulda done a mea culpa.

I suppose it would get played as pandering and changing for political expediency and all that, OR it could be taken as a really ballsy move. . .But if one of them had really wanted to suck the oxygen out of the debate and REALLY change the dynamic and get ALL the next-day press, boy, that would have done it.

So, would you admire 'em if they had?
Or think it was a desperate measure and too late?

eileen from OH

[Lone Pawn]

1. I'm afraid

With most of these guys, anything short of having Dean assassinated is too little too late.

[liberalhistorian]

2. LOL!

Ooooohh, now that's not very nice! I think you're wrong as far as Clark is concerned, though, I think he's going to do better than almost anyone else.

[Fovea]

3. Indeed it was my hope

that Kerry, Edwards or Gephardt would use that moment to face the people and ask forgiveness for not holding Dubya to the same sort of standards of proof that his predecessor was held to.

America would be a safer place right now had they realized the gravity of that mistake and forced the truth about Niger, WMD, and Halliburton, KBR, etc out of the White House. To win the trust of the Democratic base, they really need to embrace their error. Denial will not fly.

[windansea]

4. if Dean had admitted

his anti IWR stance was just a ploy I would possibly not be so disgusted with him

[Tadah]

5. ;-)

[eileen from OH]

7. yeah, and it would have been nice if Lieberman had

said it was a mistake to let Cheney play knick-knack on his butt during the VP debate but that wasn't the question.

Ya don't have to play, and you don't have to answer. And, luckily, the way things work here, you could have taken my li'l question and used it as a springboard to post your very own little thread with your own little question instead of trying to inject your own li'l little Dean bashing comments into this one.

Geez, give it a bloody rest already.

eileen from OH

[StClone]

8. Dean's anti-war a Ploy? Please explain.

I think he has an honest opinion that I concur with and he had the courage to say it and live the consequences.

[retyred]

9. Or at least that his

Biden-Lugar approval was basically the same as the IWR.


retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[arewethereyet]

6. they all say that given the information they had, it was the right vote

to somehow come out and contradict that would totally eliminate any credibility they have.

those guys say the case that none of us will ever see and voted their conscience. I don't ask any more of a representative of mine than that.

[eileen from OH]

10. That's fair and honest.

I'm not sure I would go as far as you do in trusting their judgment, but I can certainly see your point of view. Thanks for commenting.

eileen from OH

[arewethereyet]

14. I hear what you're saying

but we don't have any choice but to trust their judgement, we put them in office specifically to rely on them to do just that.

Thats why it matters who you vote for even if its just for dog catcher because you put that person in a position of some power. The higher the office, the greater the power.

Most people have no idea what sorts of things this government does and that it's important that it does them. Its a complicated and ugly world we live in and its up to some of them to be the "dad" and take care of stuff like that so we can go along and "be" the economy.

[eileen from OH]

15. Oh, wow, arewethereyet. . .

I really have a problem with the "any choice but to trust their judgement". I mean, taking that to it's logical conclusion, then we should have trusted Bush when he said we had to go to war. In fact, that's what a majority DID. And we should continue to trust him. Even after he's been caught in lie after lie after lie. . .

And I definitely don't think of elected officials as "Dad". They work for me, for us and they owe US accountability. I agree that we don't know all that our government does and part of the big problem is that with a Congress and an executive branch controlled by one party there is no checks or balances.

I don't mean to hammer on you, really. I respect that you are being very forthright and honest. But there are some really ugly, nasty, and greedy people in our government and just because they were elected doesn't make them any less dangerous, both to its citizens and to the country as a whole.

But then, I lived through Watergate and Vietnam (maybe you did too, I don't know) and I'm afraid it made me a permanent cynic. Or at the very least, suspicious.

(Although, ironically, that's combined with an irrepressible optimism that things can change. I think I need medication.)

eileen from OH

[arewethereyet]

16. I lived throught that as well

and I'm not naieve, there is rampant corruption and that will never stop. but I also have to believe that there are times and situations that will force these guys to have to try harder to do the right thing specifically because they know that failure will cost them their cushy jobs.

they'll screw us over and over but as I said before, we did elect them to make decisions on our behalf. you can be as cynical as you want but that fact remains. if we don't care for the choices they make, we do have options.

you have to remember, even with the money and the power, these guys still have to look at themselves in the mirror, they still have to sleep at night. sure they'll scratch a back here and there knowing that it'll come back around but when it's life and death, most take that seriously. the rest you can tell that they don't sleep like LBJ for example.

[retyred]

11. They did what they thought was the right

thing to do at the time, better to be wrong with principles than right without any.


retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[Elidor]

12. I thought they were wrong *and* without principles

The worst of all possible options.

[WillyT]

13. LOL !!! --- Shhh...

Don't scare 'em.

:evilgrin: