Hillary has no choice.

[Labors of Hercules]

She cannot allow her supporters to sit out or vote against Barack Obama out of spite, and she's got to come out hard against ANYONE who says they are voting for McCain "on her behalf".

This kind of irrational response could cost her politically.

If they really support Hillary, these folks better make DAMN SURE Barack Obama WINS the White House, AND HERE'S WHY:

With all the media attention that will continue to be directed at this "PUMA mentality", if the Republicans win the day on November 4th there is a good chance the blame will be pinned on Hillary Clinton. She will go from being loved and respected to being universally despised in a millisecond.

Think about it. :scared:

[anonymous171]

1. She will become the new Nader.

[Lucky 13]

4. Worse. Much much much worse.

He wasn't in our party. She was. Anything other than squashing the holdouts is a betrayal.

[tblue]

7. Agreed. Does she really wanna go there?

She can't be that cynical and shallow. I know she's dedicated and she has a "must win" mentality. I admire that. But there comes a time when you have to move on. And that time has clearly past.

[madfloridian]

2. I think if she does not...her career in politics is gone.

[StevieM]

15. This is why Clinton supporters are so disgusted by parts of the Obama movement

Hillary is trying to help Obama, and it is turned around on her and presented as something she must do in order "to save her skin."

This is all total nonsense, of course, but it makes the Obamites feel righteous.

Steve

[leftofcool]

18. Spot on

[Labors of Hercules]

49. The "Obama movement" isn't the problem.

That her situation "is what it is" is largely of her own creation. You can bullshit all you want, but the truth is Obama has to win or Hillary's finished.

Their political futures are inextricably dependent on each other at this point, and the ball's in her court.

[greguganus]

20. Her future depends on Obama being elected. Don't blow it Hillary. We are watching you.

lol

[StevieM]

23. You get one vote...and no crystal ball (eom)

[madfloridian]

24. I feel sick inside. Not righteous. Angry...not righteous.

If she can not even get Loretta Sanchez to shut up, how can she control those other groups.

And yes, many of them are Democrats and are her supporters.

[ronnykmarshall]

33. Just what THE FUCK is supposed to do?

Follow everyone around and slap the shit out of them?

[Barrymores Ghost]

30. Doesn't make me feel righteous at all...

...but based upon her past performance, she's gonna have to work pretty tirelessly to convince me personally that she is committed to Obama and Democrats winning this election. Right now, she's nowhere close to it.

[ronnykmarshall]

32. Go on Stevie!

All you hear around here is "well she BETTER do <blank>" .... nothing is going to make the extremist happy. Not the PUMA's nor the Obama "supporters".

They are all cut from the same cloth.

[cali]

48. oh please. Obama supporters are not PUMAs.

[ronnykmarshall]

50. Did I SAY there were?

Was I talking about ALL Obama supporters? That's why I used the term "supporters". It's the so-called supporters that do NOTHING but bash Clinton that are JUST like the PUMA's.

[wyldwolf]

46. very good explanation

[iconicgnom]

52. This is a problem caused by Rush Limbaugh, Anne Coulter, and others

who've explicitly and repeatedly outlined the tactics of an "operation chaos". It is NOT Obama's fault, nor is it Hillary's fault, but it does put Hillary behind the 8-ball. The tactic is AIMED AT Hillary's supporters, or our perception of Hillary's supporters, and it is only Hillary who can step in and defang it once and for all.

When Hillary's supporters react to our dismay at the goings on of the crew that promotes the tactic ("PUMAs") by saying they're disgusted by Obama's movement, or parts of it, they've been suckered into acting as proxies for the tactic, they've been suckered into promoting the disunity that the tactic is designed to ignite. Hillary's true supporters should be bitch-slapping the Limbaugh-Republican "PUMAs" and their dishonest smear machine.

Just my opinion.

[glowing]

3. Which is why Puma's are Pugs.

[oasis]

40. POOMAHs are far more irritating.

Pathetic Overly Obsessed Morans Against Hillary.

[speedoo]

5. Right. If she is defined as contributing to an Obama loss, she can forget about 2012.

She will lose the support of many Democrats.

[tblue]

13. Even people who admire HRC will fear voting for her, because they'll worry she'll drag it on

ad nauseum again, and she'll sabotage the next nominee at the next convention, should it not be her.

Who wants to go through this a second time? Think carefully, PUMAs in the midst. This could be the beginning of the end for the talented junior Senator from NY.

[leftofcool]

6. Should she bring along her "supergirl raygun" with which

to zap voters into submission? This is a Democracy and people are entitled to vote the way they want to.

[Egnever]

11. yes ! why hasnt she whipped it out allready?

sandbagging ! I mean she is annie oakly right?

[leftofcool]

16. LOL

Annie Oakly was one of the first feminists. If I was Hillary, I would see being compared to Annie as a compliment.

[StevieM]

8. Hillary has plenty of choices and she has chosen to fight for the Party and for Barack

You are attributing your own sentiments and your own analyses to everyone else. In the first place, Hillary can't "allow" or "disallow" her supporters to do anything--and in the end it is up to Obama to win them over. Some people may try to blame Hillary if Obama loses, but silliness of the complaint will be readily transparent to any objective follower of the race. Every candidate is responsible for his or her own victory or defeat, and that includes Barack Obama.

Steve

[alcibiades_mystery]

9. Hillary will be finished if Obama loses

And anyone not completely looped into Clinton partisanship knows it.

[leftofcool]

14. So if Obama loses, it is Hillary's fault?

I don't think so. More than half the country is Republican. You did know that?

[tblue]

19. Depends on how she handles herself and her delegates at the convention.

Perception is everything. It COULD look like it's her fault.

I don't wanna go there. She'll do the right thing. He'll win.

[CakeGrrl]

26. Fair or not, the perception will be "YES" thanks to MSM coverage of PUMAs

Whether or not true Hillary voters really did make the difference if Obama loses, it will be perceived that way when all anyone sees are people claiming to be for Hillary and withholding their votes for Obama. They may be Repub plants, but who will know for sure?

Hillary does take some of the blame - what does anyone expect when you throw the kitchen sink at your opponent and give a 'denial speech' that seems to tell your supporters that you're still the best choice for POTUS on the same night that your opponent has earned enough delegates to claim the nomination?

She opened the door, and maybe Republicans are helping to capitalize, but that's the risk that was taken. Fair or unfair, she now has some damage control of her own to do if she wants to win back Democratic support for a future run.

[wyldwolf]

47. "progressives" are already setting that excuse up if Obama loses

[The_Counsel]

56. Your Numbers Are A Little Off...

"Half the country" isn't Republican. It's more like 36% GOP and 38% Dem. The rest are independent/undeclared/apathetic.

As to the original question, yes Hillary will be blamed if Obama loses. Will it be fair? Heck naw. But that won't change the reality...

[StevieM]

21. That's so silly. Obama is responsible for his own victory or defeat, like everyone else (eom)

[SeaLyons]

29. oh c'mon....give it a rest....

Hillary is an icon. She's just getting warmed up. LOL.

[ronnykmarshall]

35. You are too much

:rofl:

[Zenmaster]

28. No. The OP is right.

Kind of like Michelle Obama said last night, you are trying to talk about "the world as it should be" vs. "the world as it is".

It doesn't matter, in the least, if Hillary Clinton has any real control over her supporters, or not.

In a perfect world it would matter. And if Hillary did all she could (or should) do, she shouldn't be held responsible for a group of people who clearly are no longer supporting her goals.

But, we don't live in a perfect world. And its not just Obama supporters, or DUers that are blaming Hillary for this. In fact, in spite of all of the constant back and forth on this site, both sides of the media are playing up Hillary's dissention MORE so than any Obama supporters are.

And you are not living in "the world as it is", if you believe that an Obama loss isn't going to blamed on Hillary Clinton, by the media. The stage is set for it completely. They've set the groundwork. With the dissaproval rating of the current administration, low party identification for republicans vs. high for Democrats, they've been saying flat out for months that Obama SHOULD win this election easily and if he doesn't it will be the democrats throwing away an election, and the primary reason being Hillary Clinton's ungracefull exit and following supporter dissent.

Hillary Clinton's political future is more dependent on Barack Obama winning this election than Barack Obama's is.

[StevieM]

57. Nope, that's just they world as seen through the arrogant prism of the Obamites (eom)

[endthewar]

41. And Hillary's political future rests in Obama's hands

Hope she remembers that.

[StevieM]

58. She doesn't. Because it isn't the case...it's just condescending, self-righteous dribble (eom)

[endthewar]

62. Turning the page.

Be still my heart. :-)

[Bonobo]

10. The Clinton name will be like "Lieberman". She will become untouchable. nt

[StevieM]

59. Dream on. (eom)

[elocs]

12. If Clinton even appears to not give campaigning for Obama her all and best,

her national political career is all but over. If her backers do not follow what she says in supporting Obama, then they never had much respect for her--it's all about them and their feelings. If Hillary Clinton can get over her disappointment, then her supporters should be able to do that also.

[leftynyc]

17. But you'll still blame her

if her supporters don't get over it. She simply cannot win.

[LostinVA]

22. You got it -- I wish people were as adult as Obama and Clinton

[ronnykmarshall]

37. Adults in DU???

It's more like this ......

[elocs]

39. Sorry, you're wrong about me. If she campaigns as well as other prominent Democrats

I will not blame her at all. I still say that if she can get past what must be one of the major disappointments of her life I don't understand why so many of her supporters cannot do the same. The "everybody is out to get Hillary" paranoia gets old just as the notion that anybody who disagrees with her or does not support her automatically becomes a "Hillary Hater" in the eyes of some of her supporters. It's simply not true as a blanket statement which is how it is used.

[tigereye]

25. excuse me - Hillary is not urging anyone to sit the election out -

that rumor is another bit of RW propaganda.

[Balderdash]

27. What the hell

is wrong with you people and I mean you people that put all the pressure on Hillary to deliver, which she has been doing and none on the nominee. It's up to all of us, ALL OF US to get Obama elected including Obama. This shit doesn't help just keeps us divided.

[GoesTo11]

31. Whatever. It's close. It will be close. Have to work hard to win.

If Obama was up by 20 on average, we wouldn't hear much about it being 18 one day, 22 the next. But this is very close - I think a 2-3 point lead for Obama in the average of polls, so as it bounces around there's a headline every day. The practical implication of a 0 point lead or a 2 point lead are the same: have to play hard, organize, GOTV, and win the close ones (since it is about electoral votes). We'll just have to fight and then see what happens.

[highplainsdem]

34. Hillary is supporting Obama, and everyone knows it.

Everyone also knows that we don't have a unity ticket, and Rasmussen and Gallup seem to be attributing the worsening poll numbers to that. Apparently a lot of voters weren't happy with the choice of Biden, at least so far. I hope that will change, but at the moment it appears that choosing him did nothing to unite the party.

I'm praying we can still win anyway.

But you can't blame this one on Clinton. The polls all showed very clearly, for months now, that most Democrats wanted her on the ticket as Obama's VP.

It was his right to choose someone else, of course.

But he can't force all Democrats to be happy with his choice.

[ronnykmarshall]

38. Oh there will ALWAYS be a way to blame Hillary.

This IS DU ya know.

[endthewar]

42. She shouldn't have race-baited

Bring it. :rofl:

[SeaLyons]

53. I could really feel like

kicking your ass for that statement, but laughing is better..:rofl:

[endthewar]

54. Please don't scratch me

:rofl:

Aww, I'm just kidding with you. :hug:

[StevieM]

60. She didn't...you were lying, remember? (eom)

[endthewar]

61. Farrakhan

Oh noes! Trying to scare the white people. :rofl:

[GoesTo11]

36. If Obama wins, she can look forward to her future

I don't think it has to all be about her becoming president some day. She is in a position where she can accomplish more and do more good than almost anyone has a chance to in a lifetime, and if Obama wins she'll be generally accepted (enough) by all in the party to go on to write her own story. If Obama loses, I think the posters are right, that she will suffer as well. Even if she puts her all into it, I don't think 2012 will be an option. The stars lined up last time, but the inevitability feel won't be helping her next time.

[no_hypocrisy]

43. How many election cycles will the PUMA's "punish" the democratic party

for not making sure that HRC got the nomination this year?

[President Decider]

44. **FOLKS** The more threads you post on this subject, the more you're allowing the media to

self-perpetuate the story .....


MAny are already saying how this is a media-spun issue run amok.

[wyldwolf]

45. those who would sit out are not her supporters

[BigDDem]

51. "there is a good chance the blame will be pinned on Hillary Clinton"

In other news....Sun will set in the west.

[SeaLyons]

55. ....

:thumbsup: you nailed it.