An observation about McCain: everyone is ignoring the 500 lb. gorilla in the corner.

[glarius]

Why is nobody from the Democratic side talking about McCain's involvement with the Keating 5? Was this not a huge scandal that McCain was up to his eyeballs in? I certainly think that is much more important than the fact that Obama didn't wear a flag lapel pin! :sarcasm:
Seriously.....it seems to me that every little negative fact or detail about Obama is highlighted constantly by the Repubs (and repeated ad nauseum by the media)....and yet BIG AND IMPORTANT FACTS about McCain are ignored. For instance, why aren't the Democrats hammering away at McCain's well-known womanizing when he was married to his first wife?
I just don't get this hands off attitude toward McCain. Does the fact that he was a prisoner of war excuse him from blame for any and all sins?
P.S....I realize, as a Canadian, there may be facts here that I'm unaware of, but this is how it looks to me.
P.P.S....It's SOOOOO important for Obama to be elected. Not just for the sake of your country, but the whole world!!!!!

[nc4bo]

1. I'm sure a Keating 5 discussion is not "off the table".

We got Joe when it comes time to take out the garbage ;)

[glarius]

2. When I saw Biden make his acceptance speech I was impressed

by his fighting spirit. I hope you are right.

[Cosmocat]

34. I don't think Biden is the man for Keating 5

He was in the senate at the time, then has served the last 20 plus years WITH McCain. A LOT of water under that bridge for Biden to be the one to bring it up.

HILLARY, stepping up to counter Ayers or Rezko attacks is ideal. Again, I think she needs to drop some bombs on McCain to 1) tell her supporters McCain is the enemy, not BO 2) To make the media either talk about her attacks on McCain or to just STFU.

[JaneQPublic]

3. His bio is a series of failures and bad choices

-- A series of crashed planes in the Navy

-- A failed marriage caused by his dumping the mother of his children for a rich heiress

-- Getting into Congress solely on the cash and influence of his rich in-laws

-- The whole Keating 5 debacle

-- Dozens a predictions at the start of the Iraqi War that all proved to be wrong

[glarius]

4. That's my point..Why are we hearing virtually NOTHING about this...all we hear is WAR HERO!

If the media won't talk about it....WHY DON'T THE DEMOCRATS?

[nc4bo]

7. We've got 2 long months to go - there's plenty of time to make maximum impact.

At least that's what I'm thinking.

Timing is everything in this short attention spanned world.

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. Yep. Tactics.

If they know what they are doing (and Obama shows every sign of knowing exactly what he's doing) they will roll out one item a week over the next two months, starting with the more minor ones, and making the revelations tougher and more devastating as we go.
Week 1 - Bad prediction about Iraq.
Week 2 - Bad vote in congress about the war; and don't forget the bad prediction about Iraq.
Week 3 - Philandering destroyed his first marriage; and don't forget bad vote, and the bad prediction.
Week 5 - Keating; and don't forget...

Pound on him with something new, while the old items are kept alive by the punditry by circling back and linking each previous error with the newest revelation, and it will come out as a total picture of a man who is woefully wrongheaded, hot tempered, disconnected with the reality on the ground in America.

[wvbygod]

9. A series of crashed planes in the Navy

The problem is that these crashes will be spun as him being shot down rather than him
joyflying and augering in million dollar aircraft.

[GoesTo11]

23. Causing Forrestal, the largest aircraft disaster since WWII

Reportedly, he was screwing around with his plane, "backfiring" (wet-starting the engine to make a flame come out of the back) to give a little scare to the guy in the plane behind his. The heat caused that plane to accidentally fire its rocket which then hit McCain's plane. In the mess, McCain's bomber (which he had, against regulation, overloaded with bombs larger than it was supposed to have) dropped its load on the deck and exploded causing a chain reaction of fires and airplane explosions. The end result was 134 crewmen dead, 24 planes destroyed. McCain, the admiral's son, was immediately reassigned to another carrier before his shipmates could hang him. (He was the only person so transferred). All hushed up and not really investigated because the admiral's son did it.

The whitewashed version of the story is that a plane misfired for mysterious reasons and McCain's plane. He was a hero, climbing out of the burning plane. He requested immediate transfer because this carrier was disabled and he wanted to be in combat.

You won't find official accounts that reflect the first paragraph, just unofficial. You have to read between the lines of the official accounts, and look for where things just don't make any sense. Why would a rocket just happen to fire and hit another plane out of the blue? Why was the Maverick's plane the one involved? Why did only one pilot (the Maverick) get immediately taken out of there and reassigned?

But really, his not just misjudgement, but poor character led directly to the worst aircraft carrier disaster. Over a hundred men died - they didn't just lose 5 years of their lives, they lost their whole lives. Puts the POW experience in perspective.

Now imagine him doing the same thing with our country, our entire military, our nuclear arsenal.

[glarius]

24. My gut feeling about him, since I first observed his darting, blinking eyes

and inappropriate chuckle, is that he is completely ruthless. He scares the shit out of me. I can imagine him starting world war 3!

[wvbygod]

25. which he had, against regulation, overloaded with bombs larger than it was supposed to have

I had never hear of a pilot loading his own bombs before. Maybe his bong but not his bombs.
Do they still get to do that in the Navy now?

[GoesTo11]

26. Don't know, maybe he can ask the crew to load it up

"Damn it, give me the 500 pounders. I want to kick some ass."

[Arugula Latte]

27. His string of failures is downright Bushian.

Everything he touches turns to crap --> He and Dubya have sure have a lot in common.

[Lisa0825]

5. Short Attention Span.

Do you realize how much shit we had on W that never got traction either? I think it is because of the average voter's short attention span. Elections are (unfortunately) won and lost on sound bites. Complex issues usually fall by the wayside.

I do hope that the Obama campaign will bring up the Keating 5, and I hope they will find a way to make it stick, unlike Bush's numerous scandlaous actions and connections.

[nc4bo]

8. Get out of my head LOL. nt

[Lisa0825]

12. LOL!

GMTA :evilgrin:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

16. They should conduct a poll "have you heard of the Keating 5?"

[grannie4peace]

6. according to the press he gets a pass on it all because he was a POW

[JaneQPublic]

15. How come Cleland didn't get a pass for losing three limbs?

His opponent got away with painting him as unpatriotic, simply for opposing Chimpy.

And Tammy Duckworth didn't get a free pass into office for all her sacrifices.

And don't get me started on the treatment of John Kerry in 2004. The MSM sat idly by as the GOPers sported their purple-heart band-aids.

[Overseas]

36. You forgot to add-- AND he is a Republican.

Media consolidation into right wing hands has been successful at promoting the Republican agenda and candidates, with lots of negative stories about the Democrats.

Because a lot of reporters are personally pro-choice and may believe in environmental protection, that allows the pretense that they are "liberal," and make a station like CNN "balanced."

[TooBigaTent]

10. Simple answer is that some Dems believe that we speak "the truth" and that truth should be

enough to convince reasonable people that Democratic ideas and policies are the better course.

Fact #1 - Our policies are better. Doesn't matter because most voters are not educable.

Fact #2 - Aggressive campaign tactics work. Doesn't matter because "we are better than they are" which really means that we are not comfortable with really fighting for our side.

Fact #3 - Scandals are only useful when attacking Dems. Does matter because the media, being de facto GOP operatives, make it more difficult to get any message out effectively. Since Dems do not like to attack, they will not put the effort into effectively communicating the real meaning of McInsane's past actions.

Those of us who have been in the political wars for longer than three years are frustrated by the history of our party and its track record of being beaten over and over again by the successful tactics of the rethugs. We would like to see every weapon put on the table and actually used.

[Dbdmjs1022]

11. I'm pretty sure Obama's saving this for October, when people are paying the most attention.

[polly7]

13. I'm curious as to why

John McCain personal donation and support for the mutilating contra has never been mentioned anywhere. A present advocate of torture, he personally supported it in 1988, a year after Rights organizations had reported on the systemic mutilation, rape and torture of civilians and Congress had cut off aid. What is it I'm missing here, is this subject just too taboo?

John McCain personally donated to Contra terrorists
by Daisy Cutter
Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:05:40 PM PDT
Washington Post, 9 February 1988:

Nicaraguan rebel leaders, scrambling for a survival strategy in the wake of congressional refusal last week to appropriate new aid funds, pleaded today for independent financial contributions from U.S. supporters to two private foundations based in Washington.

The contra leaders said Republican presidential candidate Robert Dole recently contributed $500 to rebel coffers, and Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) donated $400.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/13/172137/707/441/456202

"Another NGO compiled a year's worth of Contra atrocities, which included murder, rape, torture, maiming children, cutting off arms, cutting out tongues, gouging out eyes, castration, bayoneting pregnant women in the stomach, and amputating genitals.

An eyewitness to a Contra raid in Jinotega province said: "Rosa had her breasts cut off. Then they cut into her chest and took out her heart. The men had their arms broken, their testicles cut off and their eyes poked out. They were killed by slitting their throats and pulling the tongue out through the slit."



Published: April 1, 1988
LEAD: ''Historians will look back and view the vote that cut off military and humanitarian aid to the contras as a low point in United States history.'' - Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona. < A5:5. >
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE4DE123FF932A35757C0A96E948260

[Spazito]

14. It's timing, they will raise Keating 5 when it is most effective and damaging to McCain...

unlike the repubs who are already throwing the kitchen sink at Obama/Biden due to desperation, the Obama campaign has exquisite timing and will use the MANY incidences,comments, etc, they have already documented when the time is right, imo.

[ieoeja]

18. Because McCain was already exonerated. His defense?

He didn't know he was doing anything illegal.

While ignorance of the law may be no excuse for the rest of us, it is apparently a perfectly good excuse for those who make those laws.

[EstimatedProphet]

19. The real 500 lb. gorilla

Compare McCain to Obama IN PERSON. How they look and come across, on stage.

Obama inspires, McCain looks like a confused old man. Leadership vs. pathetic. Literally.

And the media is ignoring that too.

[glarius]

20. Exactly....Remember McCain's offering his wife as a biker babe contestant?

If Obama had done that....you'd never hear the end of it.

[thenext8seconds]

21. It's gonna be just fine come November because by then

I'm sure they'll be bringing the fight when the time is right.

The McCain campaign is playing checkers while the Obama campaign is playing chess.

[glarius]

22. The problem is everyone knows how to play checkers...most don't know how to play chess.

I'm wondering if the public's mind may be made up by then? Hope to God I'm wrong!

[thenext8seconds]

28. the obama campaign will have mccain in check right when the public starts to make its mind up

which is not now. it's still only august. they've gotta conserve the energy to no doubt fight back hard when the right wing brings reverend wright back up. notice, that's the one thing they really haven't used yet since obama became the nominee.

[Beregond2]

29. I agree.

This is a man who turned traitor in Vietnam, dumped his injured wife to remarry for money, was deeply involved in a major political scandal, and all we can harp on is his houses? WTF?

[harun]

30. Saving it until October (like others have stated)

[glarius]

31. But aren't you afraid the Repubs will have defined Obama by then?

If they wait too long, it may be too late!

[harun]

32. I think this exact reason is why Obama refused public financing

He knows it is going to take a fortune to go against the Corporate Media, who is going to cheerlead McCain every day. We have already seen news spots actually running McCain's negative ads as news, then saying "How will they counter this?". Helping to give McCain free negative ad runs because he has (and will continue to have) less money than Obama.

People will start paying attention now that the conventions are starting.

[AuntPatsy]

33. Wait until the race gets in high gear, I cannot wait until they nail him

to the fire with the facts, nothing else need be addressed, the facts of what having a mcbush presidency would do to this country should be enough to win his hands down with the popular vote...

[eleny]

35. Ed Schultz's guest just mentioned it

Leo Gerard, president of United Steel Workers, just brought it up Keating 5 in his interview with Ed. So, it's in the conversation.

I look at it this way - some issues are trickling in and will gain momentum. Just like McCain's overuse of his POW experience. Clark pierced that balloon and it's been falling apart ever since.