We had a bad week and the problem isn't the ads

[AllentownJake]

I'm young but from my reading of history and its probably more complex than this but my simplified view is:

Since 1960 and Richard Nixon the GOP has adopted a strategy of sliming the democrat. Hell Nixon adopted this strategy early in his career when running for Congress and Senate by calling his opponents communist agents. The last decent GOP President, and I know he was wrong on alot of things, was Eisenhower.

When issues are the central message of a campaign the democrat will generally always win. When their are distractions and the democrat can be potrayed as weak, un-American, or lacking some sort of Social Values, we lose. But on the actual issues we always win. It has been the nature of US politics since 1960 and Nixon and Kennedy battled...a battle Kennedy won by the skin of his teeth. After watergate, Carter won because Ford had pissed of most of America by pardoning Nixon and Americans were ready to listen to his ideas. Bill Clinton won in 1992 because people were hurting economically and he had a message that offered them hope and good ideas on how he could help them.

The reason they are so good at it and we aren't is because they have to be good at sliming their opponent. Its the only strategy that has worked for them. Our challenge in this election isn't to come up with an ad that necessarily hits McCain in the nuts real good, because that only confuses people more, its to bring things back to the issues.

The issue in 2008 is the country is in giant a mess and John McCain is offering the same solutions to our nations problems as the failed policies of George W. Bush. This isn't sliming John McCain this is the truth. We all know John McCain is not a good man or an honorable man. Pointing this out doesn't help us. It only confuses people. Its the war, healthcare, and the economy stupid and that is the message we need to get out.

John McCain was succesful this week in his attacks because people weren't talking about the economy, the war, the healthcare system, in short the things that matter. They were talking about bullshit and as long as the subject is bullshit the party of bullshit is going to win.

[Barack_America]

1. I still say they were forced to blow their wad earlier than they wanted to.

Because of Obama's post-foreign policy tour bump.

Sorry for the vulgar expression, but I think that ultimately, though this week hurt Obama, the fact that it happened THIS week (as opposed to later) helped Obama.

[AllentownJake]

3. This is just the beginning

Trust me McCain is saving his worst shit for after the convention.

Obama's challenge is to stay out of the mud pit and get things back to the issues.

[Barack_America]

6. Like what?

IMO, leveling the "playing the race card" shit is something they were hoping to hold onto for much, much longer. What else is left other than personal attacks regarding Rezko, Wright, etc.? He's pretty much blown threw Hillary's playbook.

[AllentownJake]

7. Rezko, Wright, and Ayers will all be appearing in ads

come September...and I fully expect them to out right call him a traitor and leave hints he's a secret muslim in ads by October.

I don't think it will work as long as Obama brings it back to calling him Bush's twin but I fully expect it to be thrown.

[27inCali]

12. yeah, and all that shit backfires

the minute there are debates and everyone tunes in and sees Johnny Song Bird stumble through his answers next to a serious-faced, grey-haired Obama giving them serious talk with way more gravitas than they ever expected about the hard work that needs to be done.

[AllentownJake]

15. One problem

Debates are about expectations not about who really wins or loses see Gore/Kerry If McCain doesn't Pee himself on stage it will be spun as a success for McCain.

[Drunken Irishman]

24. The debates are the only reason Kerry got back into the race.

Prior to the debates, he was getting KILLED by Bush in most polls, however, once he debated him, the media consistently declared Kerry the winner, which got him back into the race.

[Cosmocat]

28. WHAT ???

We were watching a completely different media ...

NEVER did they call a clear cut and decisive Kerry win ...

NEVER ...

Most times they spun it into a wash, and they did PLENTY to cover up the Idiot in Chief being, well an idiot, and did plenty to mitigate Kerry's edge ...

[AlinPA]

37. All McCain needs in the debates are a few one line "zingers" and for the idiots

to ask about flag pins and that crap and the moron public will see McCain as the "winner".

[Cosmocat]

27. Like ...

Obama is a child molesting space alien ...

I DO agree that McCain had to go "negative" earlier than he would have liked, but that means in NO WAY that every possible BS they could create about BO has been purged ...

I have said this since the end of the primary, the MSM has at least two more "pastorbates" in it before Novemember ... By any possible reasoned and objective view, the Reverand Wright was a complete and total NON story ... They made it into a two months SMASHING of BO ...

They WILL find SOMETHING else to beat the living snot out of him ...

[Doremus]

35. I think in terms of race, they're just getting started.

This is the warm up, not the final act. They will hammer on it until it's a bloody pulp ... then hammer some more.

By November we'll look back on these first ads as timid precursors.

[musicblind]

38. They can start referring to him by his middle name

They can start accusing him of STILL doing illegal drugs.

They can come up with some HORRIBLE things. Trust me, this is only the beginning. They are desperate to win, and the idea of running a whole nation makes people do crazy things.

If you check out British History you'll see what I mean.

Hopefully Obama can stay above the fray, and win on issues. I believe that is possible, and may be our best strategy.

[27inCali]

11. exactly the vulgar expression I would use

it's the perfect anology.

[upi402]

2. I like to boil things down.

We the people are easy to fool (and lazy).
The corporate owners of the media find it in their interest to fool us.
And chickens end up voting for Colonel Sanders.

Then 98% of us take it in the tailfeathers.

[AlinPA]

36. Exactly. The TV is the main media tool.

[spag68]

4. You pretty much have a handle on it

In my 66 years, I believed Nixon was the slimiest bastard there was, but bush has proven me wrong. I can't help but wonder how his kids can even live with themselves, and the wife, she has to be disgusted.

[otohara]

5. Don't Forget Ross Perot

he helped Clinton a whole lot.

[AllentownJake]

8. Some people argue that both ways

Who he helped more and they actually have valid points and statistics for both sides of the argument. I have my opinions but if I say Ross Perot got Clinton elected it tends to piss some people off and I don't want to argue that in this thread.

[MrModerate]

9. Admittedly, I'm looking at this from outside the US, and so . . .

My news sources are mostly Web-based, foreign papers, and the Beeb, but I don't see how this week could possible be seen as hurting Obama, regardelss of any poll twitches. Tell me if the mood in the States is actually different, but it seems as if McCain had one thing going for him -- a reputation as an honorable man. That reputation is now where it deserves to be (since it's totally phony) -- the crapper.

Additional negative ads will just get crankier and crankier, and the reaction of disgust (or even distaste, which is all that's required for uninvolved voters to decide against a candidate) will grow. Meanwhile, Obama continues to inspire, to stay positive, to lighthandedly mock McCain, and appear (oh, the presumption!) presidential.

McCain's campaign jumped off the cliff this week. They haven't hit the bottom yet, so, like the fellow passing the 50th floor after jumping off the Empire State Building, can yell out "doing fine so far!"

[AllentownJake]

10. The American Press

and TV is reporting this far differently from the foriegn press on TV. McCain comes up with an ad, they invite 3 republicans and one democrat to discuss it, the GOPers dance around and sing the ads praises the democrat explains why its disgusting for 1 sentence and gets cut off by the moderator for a commercial break or to go back to one of the GOP cheerleaders.

Correction this is just American TV...the newspapers have been a little more fair if they aren't owned by Newscorp.

[BlooInBloo]

13. The week was fine. The people talking about it are fucking idiots.

[AllentownJake]

14. Nope it was a bad week

Ovearll week probably won't matter come November however McCain was succesful for the first time in changing the conversation. Hoping this isn't a pattern.

[Gabi Hayes]

18. Bloo, I hope yer right, but it's hard to take a reasonable perspective, and I'm

such a political pessimist (based on past experience), that I'm very gunshy on this

the WORST night of my life, just about, was going home Election Night, 2000, from a local dem party gathering, after watching the 9PM ish results, CDT, when they said Florida was finally, for sure, going for Gore

Went home, got up, got out of bed, dragged a comb across my head. went downstairs and drank a cup (not really)....etc.

little did I know the five week horrorshow that was about to unleash the worst president in US history, along with one of the most vile, criminal, murderous regimes in WORLD history

[Gabi Hayes]

19. meant to add that I do take some heart in Mr. Moderate's view from abroad, but

they're much more politically aware over there, for the most part.

[depakid]

16. That's essentially Dr. Rachael Maddow's take

Though you'll hear people toss her under the bus and demean her, too- PhD in Political Science from Oxford and all

[AllentownJake]

17. Some people want a knife fight after the past 8 years

If we act like the GOP people vote for the GOP.

Only issue is getting this back onto issues in the current US media enviroment.

[depakid]

21. Yep- and the way to do that is to focus on McSame and his crony's

Using their own public statements and policy decisions.

Make the election a referrendum on the past 8 years- and whther Americans want more of that.

[AlinPA]

34. Won't happen. When McCain picks a VP like Sarah Palin the media will go completely berserk with

stories about her being Miss Alaska, children with "odd" names, etc. I just used her, but the same would happen w/ Jindal.

The media controls everything. Everything. 'murcans eat it up on TV.

[AndyTiedye]

20. The Reason They Are So Good At It is Because the Media is In the Tank For Them!

[FrenchieCat]

22. I'll tell you now,

John McCain was only as succesful as you are
willing to give him credit, and apparently you give him a whole lot of credit.


I disagree with you wholeheartily, and agree with this analysis!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6573927

The media is the problem, and it cannot be handled as you say, in order to win.
Clinton signed the 1996 telecommunications Act after he was elected the 2nd time.
Shortly thereafter is when Monica/Impeachment became the rage.

The Republicans aren't "good"...they just have a bigger microphone called Corporate media.

[AllentownJake]

23. Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, Bush I, Bush II

to Carter and Bill Clinton.

12 years to 28

They are good...damn good at it and the meida is their ally. However they honed their techniques before there ever was a corporate media.

[CitizenLeft]

29. I saved that big media chart for future reference.

Excellent - thanks! :hi:

[RayOfHope]

31. Fantastic post. Also, Obama had a great week.

He hit 3 states with multiple events a day, is hitting his economic plan over and over, is getting great coverage in local media because he's stopping in places that other politicians ignore.

[fasttense]

25. True people and the corporate media have been busy

talking about other things besides the economy. But the average person can't find a good paying job, has to pay double for his gas, his food is getting costlier and his savings are eaten up by inflation. Now he's spent all his collateral on junk and his pay check is getting smaller. Though the corporate media isn't talking about the recession the voters are living it every day.

I made the mistake of going to the grocery store on the first of the month. I realized it was the first when I was halfway there so I went to the grocers anyway. Normally the first of the month the grocer is packed with people getting their pay checks and Social Security. It's not a big fancy place, and it is the cheapest place in town to get your food. Even Wal-Mart hasn't been able to force them out of business. The place was practically empty. The checkout clerk was talking about how little business they were getting.

Then on my way out I talked to a bagger friend of mine and he was saying how food prices are so high people aren't splurging on food like before. They are buying staples but he's putting into people's trunks a whole lot less frozen and pre-made foods. Then there was the lady in the cooking supplies aisle that couldn't believe the price of walnuts.

The corporate media may be ignoring the every higher costs of everything but the voters are Not.

Bad economies always lead to a change in leadership in Washington D.C. This economy is very, very bad and the people known it. Washington and the media's lies about it are not convincing the public.

[no_hypocrisy]

26. Helen Gahagan Douglas was the first victim of the Nixon tradition of smear campaigns.

In the race against Nixon, Gahagan Douglas was considered by many liberals to have been the prototypical victim of a smear campaign. Alluding to her alleged Communist (or "Red") sympathies, Nixon suggested that she was a "fellow traveler", citing as evidence her supposed "Communist-leaning" votes in Congress — but neglected to mention that her voting record was not substantially different from his own. He referred to her as "the Pink Lady", and said that she was "pink right down to her underwear." His campaign manager, Murray Chotiner, even had flyers printed up on sheets of pink paper, to underline the point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Gahagan

[AllentownJake]

32. He sure was a nasty son of a bitch

and he is the heart and sould of the GOP till this day.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

30. Write to the Democrats. Demand that they respond and support the nominee

Here's my generic letter and thread from the other day.

Take action!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6571441

WHERE ARE THE DEMOCRATS???!?!??!

[AlinPA]

33. This is how bad it is now; WSJ asks if Obama is too skinny and overweight 'murcans

may not think he "is one of us".

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16401.html