Biden for VP, even though he's DLC and Mr. MBNA, won't deliver any swing state

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

I'm growing to like Biden because he was right about Pakistan even before Obama started talking about it. Biden has many problems, but I don't think he's the worse choice, given the list of options left. I much prefer him as the Sec. of State for obvious reasons, but if Kaine isn't acceptable and Bayh is *NOT* acceptable (under any circumstances), then I can see why Biden is the only viable choice left.

Here are my issues with him, though:

1. He's yet another DLCer, as is Bayh
2. He's "Mr. MBNA". Frankly I'm shocked that liberals continue to pull for Biden. He's a great friend of the corporations
3. The Repukes will go after him for alleged plagiarism
4. I don't see where he would appeal to those "working class whites" or the middle class, being a DLCer and pro-corporation
5. He's a senator, no executive experience
6. He's from a small, blue state
7. He often suffers from "foot in mouth" disease
8. He voted for the IWR and against Levin-Reed

The good news:

1. He was right about Pakistan
2. He has impeccable foreign policy credentials
3. He can negotiate and engage our allies
4. He's not a pompous ass like Bayh
5. He's not as hawkish as Bayh
6. He's pro-choice, unlike Bayh or Kaine
7. Though he voted for the IWR, he regrets the vote and had a master plan for the reconciliation of Iraq (3 separate countries, divided based on Sunni, Shia, and Kurds)
8. What better way to repair his faux paus, referring to Obama as "clean" and "articulate" than to serve as his VP
9. He's attractive. Biden and Obama are just about the same height. Biden is an elder statesman and they look good standing side by side
10. Biden can be an effective president

[saltpoint]

1. He rides the Amtrak train into work.

I like Biden and have liked him a long time.

If he's Obama's pick, I'm ok with that.

And the world is generally better off.

[TwilightGardener]

2. I am torn between Biden and Bayh--Biden is more likable, has more

creds on foreign policy, but is riskier, because of his mouth and his length of time in the Senate and on Sunday shows. Bayh is not very likable, but a much more careful politician, and has exec experience, sits on some good committees, has not thus far been the target of Republican ridicule, AND brings a state. Hmmm...

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. He's not been a target of republican ridicule because he is all

but a republican himself.

[TwilightGardener]

19. Well, that works in our favor, then.

[RaleighNCDUer]

23. I don't vote for republicans. nt

[TwilightGardener]

24. Last I checked, Bayh wasn't one, so you're safe there.

[gateley]

36. He's considered more liberal than Obama according to some ratings agencies. nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

42. Bayh? former head of the fucking DLC?

The fucking DLC is the republican wing of the democratic party. Nobody who is a member of the fucking DLC is a liberal.

[gateley]

43. No - Biden. nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

44. My mistake. Mini-rant withdrawn. nt

[gateley]

46. Totally more than okay -- I understand! :-) nt

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

51. O.K. all is forgiven. But Biden is not more liberal than Obama and neither is Bayh

[trewsx11]

47. If someone with an upside down US flag as their avatar hates Bayh...

Then that's an even more of a reason to support the centrist Bayh as Obama's VP.

Bayh may be boring like Gore and Cheney, but they did no harm to their respective tickets and played well with moderates, centrists, and swing voters.

Obama/Bayh 2008!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

52. I must say that if Obama was relying purely on pragmatism, I would

understand the Bayh choice. The Repukes are most fearful of him.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

50. What? Where the hell are you getting this bullshit from?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

49. Really? Isn't that going too far?

[polichick]

3. If he can't deliver a swing state, I say save him for SofS...

He'd probably like that better anyway ~ and his talents would be best used there.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

10. I agree that he's better as Sec. of State but who else is suitable

for VP given the limited choices we have?

[polichick]

31. imo Obama will choose to win - and that's what counts right now...

We can't afford four more years of Republicans.

[gateley]

37. I'm so with you.

It has to be a STRATEGIC move, not one that is especially who we, progressives, LIKE. (Although I think the world of Biden. ) Regardless of who the choice is, it needs to be somebody who will bring votes to the polls in November.

[Thrill]

4. It would be hard for me to support a ticket with Bayh

I would. But would hold my nose

[Lost4words]

5. Nah, they both suck big time! n/t

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

9. Who would you use if the only options left were:

Biden, Bayh, Kaine?

[wyldwolf]

6. I like Biden for the exact reasons you've stated

Like Obama, he isn't a DLC member but shares a large amount of their policy positions, being DLC (or a New Democrat like Biden) is a major point in his favor to me.

Like Obama said, "It was Bill Clinton's singular contribution that he recognized that the categories of conservative and liberal played to Republican advantage and were inadequate to address our problems.

He understood the falseness of the choices being presented to Americans. He saw that government spending and regulation could serve as vital ingredients and not inhibitors to growth, and how markets and fiscal responsibility could help promote social justice. He recognized that societal and personal responsibility were needed to combat poverty. Clinton's third way went beyond splitting the difference. It tapped into the pragmatic, nonideological attitude of Americans.

By the end of his presidency, his policies enjoyed broad support... "

[invictus]

7. The plan to split up Iraq is arrogant and stupid. What right does the US have to break up ...

... someone else's country. Only a neo-con would support that idiotic suggestion.

[TwilightGardener]

13. I also disagreed with that plan. It was the one time I thought Biden had

a bad foreign-policy idea.

[jillan]

29. The only thing is, is that is exactly what the Iraqi's are doing.

When you hear about Anbar Province (for example)..... it was from Shia and Sunni's dividing up and defending their territory. The Kurds in the north, Al Sadr in the the south.

Biden's plan was based on the divisions in Iraq which already existed for many years, since it first became a country.
But his plan could've only been executed by the Iraqi parliment, which he had alot of support.

Unfortunately this administration was hell-bent on a unified Iraq which will never happen.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

34. That's what I thought, too! I didn't think it was a stupid plan...

[invictus]

58. It is a stupid neo-con plan.

n/t

[invictus]

57. neo-con bullshit. American did worse during the civil war. Ever heard of blue states and red states?

Perhaps a "civilized" foreign power should have cut America up because those New Englanders and Southerners just don't get along.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

65. You may have a valid point there. I wouldn't want a country occupying me whose

only solution is to break me into several different pieces. It was a sovereign nation and we had no right to be there in the first place. How is Obama going to find someone who squares with that sentiment?

[Skwmom]

8. He kills the change and judgment argument.

[saltpoint]

11. Many variables to a veep pick. One is whether we tune in to the

vice presidential nominees' debate.

If it turns out to be Biden for our ticket, I believe he will smash the Republican nominee.

[Douglas Carpenter]

12. I like Sen. Biden for the same reason I like Gov. Kaine - because he is NOT Evan Bayh

Biden is a hawk. ANYONE who is going to be selected is going to be a hawk - that is the unfortunate reality of the elitist political culture of the Washington, D.C. and of the media.

That is not what I want. I would rather see someone genuinely focused on peace.

But, at least Biden is NOT an ideological foreign policy neoconservative like Bayh.

When all is done and said, I back the viable candidate who actually might win and who would be less likely to turn the Middle East into a blood bath.

When I see other single issue focused posters demanding uncompromising compliance to a demanding strident line...I feel somewhat jealous. All I am asking for are candidates who are less likely to rain death and carnage on the Middle East. I really don't see how that can be described as demanding perfection.

Of those under serious consideration, again I say, ABB - ANYBODY BUT BAYH!!

A.B.B. - ANYBODY BUT BAYH!!

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/bayh_as_veep_he_cochaired_wing.php

"In 2003, Bayh was an honorary co-chair of the neocon pro-war Committee for the Liberation of Iraq -- a group he joined along with none other than John McCain and Joe Lieberman, according to a press release from during the run-up to the invasion.

Check this out, from the group's press release on February 14th, 2003 (via Nexis):

The Committee for the Liberation of Iraq (CLI) is pleased to welcome Sen. Evan Bayh (D-Ind.) as an Honorary Co-Chairman. Bayh becomes the third U.S. Senator to join the committee after Sens. Joe Lieberman (D-Conn.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) announced their participation on January 28.

The Committee is a neo-con group that was formed to propagandize the country into war. It boasted such illustrious neocon members as Bill Kristol, former CIA director James Woolsey, and even McCain senior foreign policy adviser and Chalabi-bamboozler Randy Scheunemann, whom Josh has been blogging about.

Bayh would, to put it very charitably, muddle Obama's message. It's true that Bayh was said to have subsequently removed himself from the group. But Obama's campaign is partly about -- and rightly so -- the judgment he made, and others didn't, in the run-up to the invasion.

The McCain campaign and the Repubs would have a grand time mocking the choice. Indeed, the McCain camp is already trying to make an issue of Bayh's past."."

[trewsx11]

39. Joe Biden VOTED FOR THE IRAQ WAR!

I vehemently opposed the Iraq invasion, but the Iraq War is a foregone conclusion anyway. The surge worked. Nothing you can do about that now.

Bayh is better because he is a centrist Democrat, plays well amongst white voters in swing states, and has executive experience as governor.

Two liberal senators on the same ticket? I don't think so.

[mrigirl]

60. Did you forget that everyone was lied to regarding the intelligence reports they were given?

Do you really think that we would have gone to war if we knew our evidence was completely false? No way. Joe wouldn't have bought it. If the CIA was lying to our own people along with other agencies who would have thought it?? Bush and Co. had their cronies in all the right places.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

66. Biden is liberal? I thought I heard it all...

[TwilightGardener]

14. I never, ever thought I'd say this, but I think Bayh is Obama's best choice.

Good God, somebody slap me hard.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

15. The Repukes are much fearful of Bayh! Puts Indiana in play.

I just can't stand him. But we liberals needs to just suck it up if he does pick Bayh. What other choices are there who can deliver, other than Kaine?

[Douglas Carpenter]

18. with Bayh, Sen. Obama will have to completely forsake his judgement slogan

Bayh didn't just vote for the war on Iraq. He was a cheerleader for it.

And Sen. Bayh could quite possibly be a cheerleader for war against Iran:

links


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/23/evan-bayh-defends-clinton_n_98240.html

Bayh could he is an ideololgical foreign policy neoconservative.

For that matter, Kaine is much more likely to make the difference in tipping Virginia to the Democrats than Bayh is for tipping Indiana.

Also Kaine was born in Minnesota and grew up in Missouri, so he could conceivably help with those two swing states as well.

I have no particular reason to support Kaine, except unlike Bayh, he has not done or said anything so far to lead me to believe that he is a foreign policy neocon nut like Bayh.

As someone with a special interest in the Middle East, I do NOT have very standards. I just want don't want someone who is likely to turn the Middle East into a sea of blood.

[TwilightGardener]

20. Obama can get around that. Pretty much everyone in the Dem party

has to admit they were wrong to let us go to war (except Jack Reed, who was my pick)--Bayh is no different. He can say he's changed his mind, that he supports Obama's position. And he won't influence Obama's foreign policy, I don't think--Obama is pretty confident of what he wants to do.

[flpoljunkie]

17. Biden's Governor, Donald Carceri, is a Republican. That is a negative.

[bornskeptic]

30. Last I heard, Carcieri was Governor of RI,

and Ruth Ann Minner(D) was Governor of DE.

[flpoljunkie]

33. Oops! Thanks for the correction. Brain fart!

[KittyWampus]

21. Using "DLC" in the context of Biden is so fucking stupid, the rest of your post has no merit

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

22. Please do tell, oh wise one. Why am I fucking stupid?

Better yet, why isn't your post deleted? Mods?

[wyldwolf]

27. Biden is not an actual card-carrying member of the DLC...

...so the mere suggestion of it must be "fucking stupid" to cryingshame. However, he's a Third Way New Democrat, which makes him (policy wise) a generic brand of DLCer. (Much like Obama.) Now, none of this is an insult to them. I like their policy stances.

For example, here is a speech by Biden to the DLC on the DLC's website praising one of their policy positions:

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=106&subid=122&contentid=252157

[darius15]

25. If The Repubs start attacking Biden...

they will be sorry. Biden is not one of the Mr. Nice Guy Dems.

[Marrah_G]

26. None of it matters or needs to be discussed. GoBama!

[jillan]

28. Another thing about Biden that alot of people don't know, is his high marks on the environment.

Including a 95% rating from the LCV.

He has had his legislation passed for the development of Li-ion batteries.
For 35 years, since he has been in office, he has fought to protect the coastline and beaches of DE, including not letting businesses develop there.

There's alot more.


And he was right about Iran.

Even tho I am a huge Bidenite - if he's not offered the Veep, I don't care.
Would be happy to see him as SoS or even stay right where he is where he can help bring an orderly end to our occupation in Iraq.
That said - there is no one that will be able to take on McCain like Joe...with the possible exception of Webb.

[Zodiak]

32. Biden is not DLC

I do not think you will find him listed on the DLC website, nor is there evidence that he took money directly from the DLC like stealth DLCer Schumer.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

55. I stand corrected. He may not be a card-carrying member but he does identify

more with the DLC on many issues, particularly when it comes to the corporations. He's hawkish, too. I still think he's more suited as the SoS rather than the VP but I understand the arguments for the VP.

[Marie26]

35. Biden has grown on me

Yeah, he's Mr. MBNA, but he's smart, articulate, funny & a fighter. Obama could do much worse.

[trewsx11]

38. I prefer Evan Bayh then...less arrogant version of Biden

And in addition, Bayh actually has executive experience: stellar record as Indiana governor and can help Obama immensely in the Midwest.

[Debi]

41. You say he's less arrogant but have you met him???

Biden has a wonderful personality and is genuine (and has a self-deprecating sense of humor). Bayh is plastic in public and bland in private, he shares no personal information or asks none of people he's talking to - shake my hand ask your damn question, get an autograph, take the picture and leave me alone. Based on personal experience with both candidates Biden wins hands down.

[DFLforever]

40. Please, Obama, not two senators on one ticket.

with decades of good, bad, and mixed votes to pour over, many at variance with your own.

Any governor would be better: a first term governor (like FDR) or a five term one (like Bill Clinton).

[AlCzervik]

45. MBNA got hoovered up by Bank of America so that's "Mr. BOFA" now. :-)

[depakid]

48. Want to give the McCain campaign tons of ammunition?

Let some interns loose with all those years of drivel on the Sunday "news" shows....

[Milo_Bloom]

53. Biden is a good example of what is wrong in the democratic party.

A finger in the wind Politician with a capital P.

His foreign policy "credentials" are in serious question... he voted for the war, which means either, despite a large amount of evidence and testimony to the contrary, he FALSELY believed there were WMD's in Iraq OR he was duped by bush into believing that the on its face war resolution he signed wasn't really an on its face war resolution, which would mean he is incredibly gullible.

Either way, I wouldn't trust this guy to set up a security system at my house.

[invictus]

59. Exactly! n/t

[mrigirl]

61. Dude, just about everybody voted for the damn war! Get over it! They were lied to.

When you can't trust your own intelligence THEN WHAT? Of course everyone believed it.

[Milo_Bloom]

62. The information was out there for those interested enough to find it.

An actual weapons inspector came forward and said the WMD didn't exist.

Smart people didn't vote for the war and/or voted FOR the Levin amendment... moron, finger in the wind politicians did.

[AlinPA]

54. My top favorites for VP: Richardson, Hillary, Schweitzer. I change between them daily.

Today I'm thinking it would be good if Obama were to wait a long time and then announce Hillary. Yesterday I was thinking to go with Richardson ASAP. Monday I was for him to call Schweitzer immediately. (Remember that I was pissed at Hillary during the primary, but now I just want to beat that slimy McTurd.)

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

67. I like Hillary but was very turned off with how nasty she ran her campaign.

I don't think Hillary is a wise choice at all. In fact I think she would be the absolute worse because she's too polarizing. Wanna ignite the Republican party? Add Hillary Clinton to the ticket. Nothing energizes The Reich more than the Clintons. I can't deal with 4 years of rumor, innuendo and upstaging the presidency. There are much better choices if he has to pick a Senator. I'm not convinced that he must do so. Choose Bayh, Richardson or Clark.

[cleveramerican]

56. I really hope he gets the nod too

I like Biden and I always have.
Tough and sensible are very good qualities in a VP.

[barack the house]

63. I don't think we know the real short list myself.

[Bucky]

64. the swing states he can deliver include Pennsylvania, West Virginia, & Ohio

He'd also probably play as strongly in Virginia as any of the native sons getting touted. Biden would all but close the deal. He's a powerful performer on the stump and in debates. I think Obama's insane not to go with him.