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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 02:28 PM
Original message
If This Has Been Posted I Would Like To Know & Where I Can Find It.
I heard that Obama does not intend to hold the "criminals" now in power accountable for their crimes. It was told to me by a friend that he DOES NOT want to bring charges against any of the EVIL, LYING Assholes who have all but ruined THIS COUNTRY!!

Please Advise!

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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh, goody. We can reheat this shit agan.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Sorry... I ONLY ASKED Because As I Said I Haven't Been Tuned In
lately. I didn't mean to start any kind of up-rising and thought "here" would be a place that I could get information. I decided about 3 months ago that I needed to stop being involved because it simply upset me too much.

Where once I would come to DU 7 to 8 times a day, now it might be 3 weeks in between or more. I actually wanted to tell the other person what I found out. If I upset you that much then just put me on your "ignore" list. This kind of reaction is ONE of the reasons I stopped blogging. It seemed that you could hardly ask/say ANYTHING without getting jumped on.

Now, I'll go away again!
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. "This kind of reaction is ONE of the reasons I stopped blogging." Really?
Have you considered reading a newspaper -- online or printed?
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Not Lately... On Sabbatical... Just Plain Tuned It All Out & Decided To
slink away. Not an easy decision because I've been a political junky and activist since Viet Nam. A personal choice I made and it does NOT mean I'm DUMB nor STUPID!
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Bicoastal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. I would honestly want President Obama to FIX the problems caused by the former administration....
...before he even thinks about spending time and political capital punishing those responsible.

And guess which one is going to take longer?
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. There is enough work to do without the focus being that.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. In addition to what others wrote, meanwhile, McCain will just continue to employ them.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. The Primaries are Over
arguments over who will or may punish the current administration more ended after Denis Kucinuch left the race.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
6. zOMG !!!
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. He has said he will advise his AG(Edwards?) to look at every
signing statement and executive order to see which ones violate the Constitution. And, that's where things would start.

He can't run on "trying the war criminals", as much as I wish he could.

He will close gitmo. And Restore Habeas Corpus.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. Not true. One of his legal advisers said they would pursue only
Edited on Wed Jul-23-08 02:47 PM by JenniferZ
the most egregious violations of law by the Bush Administration. If they went after everything, there wouldn't be time left to spend on fixing all the other stuff like the economy, the Iraq war, finding Bin Laden, etc.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Thank You, I Appreciate Your Reply... n/t
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. A few links, the first an answer from Obama himself...
Edited on Wed Jul-23-08 06:38 PM by slipslidingaway
The original article appeared in the first link, although I think David Swanson added some interesting comments so I'll post them as well.

Personally I doubt anyone will be held accountable, we have not been given a reason to think otherwise IMO.

See the last link, who knows whether or not our children will also be fighting many of the same people in the future.

:(

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/attytood/Barack_on_t...

http://www.davidswanson.org/?q=node/1269

"...The question was inspired by a recent report by ABC News, confirmed by the Associated Press, that high-level officials including Vice President Dick Cheney and former Cabinet secretaries Colin Powell, John Ashcroft and Donald Rumsfeld, among others, met in the White House and discussed the use of waterboarding and other torture techniques on terrorism suspects. I mentioned the report in my question, and said 'I know you've talked about reconciliation and moving on, but there's also the issue of justice, and a lot of people -- certainly around the world and certainly within this country -- feel that crimes were possibly committed' regarding torture, rendition, and illegal wiretapping. I wanted to know how whether his Justice Department 'would aggressively go after and investigate whether crimes have been committed.'

Here's his answer, in its entirety:

"What I would want to do is to have my Justice Department and my Attorney General immediately review the information that's already there and to find out are there inquiries that need to be pursued. I can't prejudge that because we don't have access to all the material right now. I think that you are right, if crimes have been committed, they should be investigated. You're also right that I would not want my first term consumed by what was perceived on the part of Republicans as a partisan witch hunt because I think we've got too many problems we've got to solve. So this is an area where I would want to exercise judgment -- I would want to find out directly from my Attorney General -- having pursued, having looked at what's out there right now -- are there possibilities of genuine crimes as opposed to really bad policies. And I think it's important-- one of the things we've got to figure out in our political culture generally is distinguishing between really dumb policies and policies that rise to the level of criminal activity.

You know, I often get questions about impeachment at town hall meetings and I've said that is not something I think would be fruitful to pursue because I think that impeachment is something that should be reserved for exceptional circumstances. Now, if I found out that there were high officials who knowingly, consciously broke existing laws, engaged in coverups of those crimes with knowledge forefront, then I think a basic principle of our Constitution is nobody above the law -- and I think that's roughly how I would look at it."


Obama did not say he prefers prosecution to impeachment for political reasons. He said he's opposed to both because he doesn't know of any crimes having been committed, and he hasn't seen any exceptional circumstances, but that he's open to prosecution should he discover that crimes have been committed. We can leave to one side the fact that many impeachable offenses are not crimes, and the question of why Obama is waiting until 2009 to look into this seemingly important issue, as well as the question of what in the hell WOULD constitute exceptional circumstances. I want to focus on what Obama already knows, because we all know it, because it's public knowledge.

The current president has openly confessed to violating the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, and with it the Fourth Amendment..."



Also see...

Obama Adviser Cass Sunstein Debates Glenn Greenwald on FISA Vote, Executive Power and Prosecuting White House Officials for War Crimes

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/22/obama_adviser_cas...


"...CASS SUNSTEIN: Well, I speak just for myself and not for Senator Obama on this...."


Madfloridian's thread...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

"...Politicians, legal experts and progressive activists grappled with Republican abuses of power at the third annual netroots convention on Friday, debating how an Obama Administration might restore the rule of law. Cass Sunstein, an adviser to Barack Obama from the University of Chicago Law School, cautioned against prosecuting criminal conduct from the current Administration. Prosecuting government officials risks a "cycle" of criminalizing public service, he argued, and Democrats should avoid replicating retributive efforts like the impeachment of President Clinton--or even the "slight appearance" of it. Update: Sunstein emailed to emphasize that he also said and believes that "egregious crimes should not be ignored."



Excellent analysis of Lee Hamilton, Iran-Contra, and Onward...

http://www.atlargely.com/2008/03/excellent-analy.html

"...Remember that some of the Iran Contra folks graduated to the Bush II administration...

As you can see, the past is also the present and Iran Contra is as much a current scandal as it is a past crime..."











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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Thank You So VERY Much For ALL This Information!! This IS What I
was looking for in the first place. I really appreciate your kindness and the time you took to provide links!!

:hug:
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. You are very welcome, accountability has always been a big
issue for me so finding the links was not too difficult.

:hi:
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Thanks Again... I'm No Techie So Depend On Those Like You! n/t
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Jonathan Turley linked to madfloridian's post in this article...
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. All The Same... Thanks Again! AND madfloridian Is One Person Who
is so informative. Living in the same state she did extensive coverage regarding the "Primary Issues" here!

I still appreciate your input!
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yes, madfloridian has done a great job of the issues in Florida
:)

...and YW.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
18. "I heard".
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Unfortunately I have not heard differently....
http://www.davidswanson.org/?q=node/1269

"...So this is an area where I would want to exercise judgment -- I would want to find out directly from my Attorney General -- having pursued, having looked at what's out there right now -- are there possibilities of genuine crimes as opposed to really bad policies. And I think it's important-- one of the things we've got to figure out in our political culture generally is distinguishing between really dumb policies and policies that rise to the level of criminal activity."


"Here's his answer, in its entirety:

"'What I would want to do is to have my Justice Department and my Attorney General immediately review the information that's already there and to find out are there inquiries that need to be pursued. I can't prejudge that because we don't have access to all the material right now. I think that you are right, if crimes have been committed, they should be investigated. You're also right that I would not want my first term consumed by what was perceived on the part of Republicans as a partisan witch hunt because I think we've got too many problems we've got to solve. So this is an area where I would want to exercise judgment -- I would want to find out directly from my Attorney General -- having pursued, having looked at what's out there right now -- are there possibilities of genuine crimes as opposed to really bad policies. And I think it's important-- one of the things we've got to figure out in our political culture generally is distinguishing between really dumb policies and policies that rise to the level of criminal activity.

You know, I often get questions about impeachment at town hall meetings and I've said that is not something I think would be fruitful to pursue because I think that impeachment is something that should be reserved for exceptional circumstances. Now, if I found out that there were high officials who knowingly, consciously broke existing laws, engaged in coverups of those crimes with knowledge forefront, then I think a basic principle of our Constitution is nobody above the law -- and I think that's roughly how I would look at it.'"


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SidneyCarton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
22. The ship of state is sinking...
The waters of chaos already wash over the bow, and yet many want the new Captain, (when he gets into office) to spend his time searching the hold for mutineers to shoot, instead of working the bilges and getting us into safe harbor.

Go read SMW on Latest, If Obama gets elected he will be lucky if he can keep us from absolute collapse. Justice delayed is justice denied, but none of this will matter if the whole country goes up. W had the perfect getaway plan, wreck our country on his way out.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Upholding The Constitution & What It Once Stood For Is Of Primary
concern for me. Since he stated he would go after serious crimes and leave Impeachment off the list is acceptable to me. I most certainly have felt IMPEACHMENT should have been addressed and DONE a long time ago. Now, time is short and the election cycle is in full bloom, it's all but impossible. It's a real shame that it didn't get done and it has upset me to a great degree! Because they have NEVER been held accountable for ANYTHING, their ARROGANCE has ruined far too many lives!

Having said that, I most certainly feel there should be serious consequences to so very many crimes and nose-snubbing this administration has done to the Constitution. If it's not addressed, as Turley says, it sets a very BAD precedent for the future. It's my opinion that it courts the possibility of reverting back to a Monarchy. To let them "slink/slide" away from prosecution of some sort sends a really bad message. There could be indictments after they leave and not all of them have to be at once.

I've taken myself out of being an activist for the election and don't plan to "work" as I have always done in the past, for my own personal reasons. However, if I see that some "real change" will take place I will return. And yes, my cynicism is showing because my hopes have been dashed far too many times. What I see in the future will determine my decision about the Democratic Party. Will they be able to "do something" for this country or not, or WILL THEY??
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