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All you 'Hagel for VP' supporters - answer me this question.....

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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:50 AM
Original message
All you 'Hagel for VP' supporters - answer me this question.....
Let's say for some very strange twist of fate Hagel ends up as President, which could happen. Part of being VP is becoming president should something befall the current president.

Hagel is president and we hear the announcement that John Paul Stevens plans to retire from the US Supreme Court.

What chance do you think Hagel would replace STevens with another moderate-progressive Judge like Stevens? I'm guessing less than ZERO.

Hagel can be a strong member of the Obama administration without giving him VP. I don't want a VP who happens to agree with us on one issue but will subvert us on the other 90%.

This is just wrong to think he is a viable VP candidate.
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Fran Kubelik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
1. k&r
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eallen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. I agree. Hagel on cabinet would be different from Hagel as VP.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
2. Most people aren't thinking beyond the election.
Edited on Wed Jul-23-08 09:16 AM by Kristi1696
The more important issue is who Obama trusts with his agenda and who he can work with. Obama can win regardless of who he picks for VP. McCain and the entire GOP are in free-fall.
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likesmountains 52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
3. I was at an Obama House Party last evening and this was suggested by a few people
as a way to bring in more Republican votes. Most of the people at the house party believed he'd be better in a cabinet position than as the VP though. I agree with you LynneSin..no Hagel for VP.
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
4. Good luck.
I have pointed this out about a dozen times. They don't get it. :shrug:
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
5. Well... I am not an "Hagel for VP" supporter
Edited on Wed Jul-23-08 09:27 AM by Inuca
I think it would be an interesting, courageous, and potentially transformational choice, but also very difficult and risky in many ways, and probably not worth it. But I do think that Hagel is a smart and honorable man, so I will try to answer your question. First, my sincere hope is that Stevens will announce his resignation the day after Obama is inaugurated, and Ginsburg soon after. As to what SC choices Hagel would make in the unlikely case that he will have the opportunity, I do not think he would appoint the likes of Stevens, but not the likes of Alito or Scalia either. Most likely in the Kennedy or O'Connor mold, not progressives, but true moderates.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Just looking at Hagel's stance on Abortion, I think an Alito or Scalia would be very likely
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. He is not a Brownback (just as an example)
he may be anti-abortion personally, I guess he is, I have no idea, though I remember reading somewhere (sorry, no link) that he changed his stance on this shortly before he ran for the first time a la poppy Bush, but I have no idea how reliable that info is. But he seems to truly believe in going for the common ground rather than exacerbating the differences, and in this his way of thinking is similar to Obama's. I read his book, written I think as a kind of personal political manifesto and testament, the word abortion is not mentioned even once. I think it's not something that he particularly cares about, one way or another. Voting history is important, no doubt, but it does not tell the whole story.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. You don't know how reliable that information is??!! Get your head out of the fricking sand
Edited on Wed Jul-23-08 10:09 AM by LynneSin
THAT information, some of it came from only 2-3 years ago, comes straight from his VOTING record, which any fool with access to the internets can look-up.

I can't believe you would fricking RISK my ability to choose what I do with my body, you'd risk Gays & Lesbians having equal rights as straight people, you'd risk our ENVIRONMENT what - for one cause Hagel happens to agree with and oh, I hope that Hagel would have changed by now.

Please - get your head out of the fricking sand and READ what was posted in my OP. Hagel is NOT a democrat and is NOT material to be our VP.

EDIT NOTE:

Really the only difference between a Brownback and Hagel is Hagel's stance on the war. You remove that one issue and hell, might as well promote Brownback as VP for Obama.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. A few comments
1. Hagel vs. Brownback - you have no idea what you are talking about. What they have in common is the R part and that they are both senators. But Brownback is an ideologue, which Hagel is not.
2. you asked a question, I replied politely with my opinion with which you are free to disagree. It would be preferable though if you did so politely, without suggesting what I should or should not do with my head. Also, if you want to reply it is preferable to first read what I wrote. I said I do not thin Hagel as VP is a good idea, and I mean it.
3. the possibly unreliable information I was referring to was not Hagel's voting record but the statement that he changed his position on abortion in order to get elected in Nebraska. Again, read before hitting reply is usually a good idea.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. I see more similiarities between Brownback & Hagel over Obama & Hagel
The guy's party line voting record is over 80% which makes him pretty much a Brownback not only in my book but for most of us here at DU.

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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
23. Well, no--there are considerable differences between Hagel and Brownback.
Hagel doesn't spout the family-values bullshit, he's not a religious wackjob, I've never heard him advocate for creationism in schools, and I'm pretty sure he believes in science and evolution. And he also splits with his party on key issues more often than chickenshit Brownback. He's my Senator, and I keep my eye on him and Ben Nelson, so I would know. I can understand if Dems don't want the guy for VP, or anything for that matter--but there's no need to make shit up about him or trash the man's character by comparing him to Brownback, or Cheney, or any other complete nutcase. The guy is doing what he can to get Obama elected, for chrissakes--the whole Iraq trip was pretty much an endorsement. Take it as a little gift, and lighten up.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
7. The Whole "Hagel For Veep" Is a Steaming Pile of You-Know-What
Edited on Wed Jul-23-08 09:41 AM by Crisco
We do not need a Hagel or any right-leaning libertarian or centrist Republican on the ticket to win in November. Barring any unforeseen disaster, President Obama is a given. Republicans and neo-cons know it and are desperately attempting to cling to power.

IMO, anyone who suggests in this forum that Hagel should seriously be considered for VP is a troll.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. IMO, anyone who suggests in this forum that Hagel should seriously be considered for VP is a troll.
On your say so?
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Mine too
They are promoting Republicans over Democrats on a website that claims that is against its own self made rules.
A Republican criminal on the ticket makes two Republican tickets. Lots of Democrats just will not vote for a Republican ticket, see? I for one will not. No way will I be part of returning them to power after the last 8 years.
Anyone who is promoting Republicans for office is worse than a troll. They are in fact Republican lovers, if not Republicans. Far worse than mere trolls, they are capitulating, servile, spinless bits of desperation. And I say, get thee behind me.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #11
28. Actually, I was quoting the post above. While I'm not supporting
him for VP, I thought the quote inapproprite, especially if Obama is considering him. That being said, I respect your feelings concerning Republicans since they have spearheaded such a ruination of this country.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Sign me up for your team
:D
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #12
30. See my reply above though I respect your sentiments.
We have plenty of good candidates for the job (though I'm leaving out Nunn because he doesn't fit my description).
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
32. Is Obama a troll? After all, his campaign has done NOTHING to quell
the suggestion or speculation in the media that Hagel is being considered--and they knew the Iraq trip would just encourage it. I think the campaign just wants it out there to make Obama look bipartisan, but still. They could have put out a statement that no Repubs were being considered in response to media speculation, but they have not. So, if it's being seriously discussed in the news, we discuss it here.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
13. Good lord there are actually morons here in favor of Hagel as VP?
posting support for that horseshit ought to garner a swift granite cookie.

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Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
14. What if....
Hagel pulled a George HW Bush and agreed to abandon many of his positions to join up on the ticket?

Remember Bush 1 was pro choice, didn't buy into trickle down economics, but abandoned all that and wound up giving us justices that were the antithesis of what his initial beliefs were.

For the record, I DO NOT want Hagel as VP... I want him as SOD and think he has a place in an Obama administration, but I wanted to pose the hypothetical...
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. What if What if What if What if
"What if" is something I do not trust with republicans. Remember Bush went to the RIGHT with what he did to be Reagan's VP.

What if Hagel ended up becoming President and figured he doesn't have to hold that promise anymore
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Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. You are foolish if you TRUST any politician.
Remember when anti-war democrats like Kerry and Clinton voted for a war?

Remember when poor advocate John Edwards voted for the bankrupcy bill?

Remember when Obama suddenly decided to support the FISA bill?


Politicians go where the power is and where they think they will retain that power. OUR job is to try and show certain policians where their bread is buttered, so to speak. "If you take this position, you will be popular, take this one, you will be unpopular"

This is why a pro-choice moderate like Bush 1 became an arch conservative right wing nut job.



Here is another what if for you...

What if Obama becomes president and decides the power is in the middle and starts adopting right wing policies he was against in the primary? What if he ultimately comes out against gay marriage? What if he decides a compromise justice is a good choice and puts someone on the court who pulls a Souter (but going from good to evil, instead of evil to good).

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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. You're absolutely right which is why I trust a politicians track record more than a 'What if"
I'm not so cynical that I'm going to totally not trust any politicial.
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NCarolinawoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #14
26. You should NOT want him as Secretary of Defense.
IMO, NO Republican should be appointed SOD.

Democrats have got to stop playing into the meme, or a better word would be myth, that only Republicans can keep the country safe.

Bill Clinton made this mistake when he appointed Cohen as Secretary of Defense back in the 90's.

Republicans have "owned" National Security since the late 60's/early 70's. A Hagel appointment would only perpetuate this.

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Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. That's a silly reason.
I want the most qualified person for the job and Hagel has an excellent head on his shoulders when it comes to foreign affairs/national security. Would you rather him as secretary of state?

I trust him on these issues not because he is a republican, but because he seems to actually THINK the issues through and was willing to take a courageous stand early on against bush when it was obvious things weren't going right.

Sorry, but I don't see the world in terms of R's and D's. Those letters mean very little to me.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. You did not ask me :-), but
yes, I would rather see him as secretary of state. There are others that would be excellent fits there as well, but I am not sure they would be willing to give up their day job. Hagel will soon be unemployed (not that I worry too much about his future).
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Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. Wow, I'm impressed.
A little confused. Isn't Secretary of State and even more influential position than secretary of defense?

I know they all technically rule their own roosts.. but in terms of who has more influence over policy I would give the nudge to secretary of state.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. I think Hagel is one of the best out there on FP
and I do not know of any differences between him and Obama on FP issues, both on specific positions and in the general approach. I don't say they do not exist, I just do not know of them, and I have followed pretty closely. He is also a "known quantity" to many international leaders. Again, I am not saying he is the only one to have these qualifications, but one of the very few.
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NCarolinawoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #29
37. Okay, I'll approach this from a different angle....
Hagel gets a 0% ranking from the League of Conservation voters.

In recent years we have learned the hard way in NC, the impact that the Department of Defense has on environmental matters:

Since the Bush Administration, there have been massive efforts to put a huge Naval landing field in Washington County, near our coast. The lake and wetlands there encompass the largest wintering grounds for migratory birds in all of North America. Lawsuit after lawsuit have been filed by the state of NC. to prevent this airstrip from being built. So far a federal judge has ruled twice in favor of North Carolina, and the the Department of Defense has not gotten their way. But they are still trying.....

A better SOD and better people in positions such as Secretary of Navy, etc. would have made all this time and money unnecessary.

There are many more examples than this. There is the decline of the California Desert tortoise, and the saving of the red cockaided woodpecker, all directly related to who runs Defense. Not to mention what is going on with the effects of sonar on dolphins and whales.

It all starts at the top.
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Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. The top is the president.


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NCarolinawoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. Obama has already said, in different ways, that he doesn't micro-manage.
That isn't Obama's style. He delegates. That is why cabinet positions are so very important.

So I doubt very seriously he would find the time to take an interest in this. Too many other things to think about.
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Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Its about policy, not micro management.
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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
17. Obama should not make his decision out of FEAR but out of HOPE. I SUPPORT HIS RIGHT TO CHOOSE!!
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Rainbowreflect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
18. As someone from Nebraska, I do respect Hagel, probably more
than our "dem"?? senator. That said I would not vote for him due to his stand on the majority of issues that are important to me.
He would not be a good VP choice for Obama.
McCain can pick him and he will lose the Nebraska Republican vote. ;)
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
21. Good luck - Some people here would support Lieberman as VP if the media were pushing it.
And then, they would try to find a rational just in case Obama chose him.

And some, of course, have never seen a Republican they did not like, as soon as he had mild criticisms of Bush. No matter what else he supports (see the support of Ron Paul).
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
25. DUers just love repblicans.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
27. Hey, another "Don't think about Hagel as VP" thread !
Reminds me of "Don't Think of an Elephant!"

I like the list of why-NOT-Hagel items you've posted as another thread. Why not just put that excellent list as a comment in any other thread that tries to push Hagel, rather than starting new threads every day that say

DON'T THINK OF HAGEL.

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GihrenZabi Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
33. What does Hagel stand for?
I don't really know who Chuck Hagel is, other than he's been bucking the Party leadership on Iraq.

Does anyone here really know who he is OTHER than "He's a Republican?"

I've heard from a few members of his actual constituency here and they've all had positive things to say about him - and they're Democrats.

If you want to argue, argue with facts and cold logic, not your emotions. If Chuck Hagel is really such a demon, may we have some argument to that effect?

I'd like a record of his Congressional votes where his vote actually mattered.

I'd like to see a record of his congressional votes where he was not under the obligation to represent his constituency and could therefore vote his conscience.

Those would be the only things that would make me feel either way about Chuck Hagel - his actions, not his words, what he does, not what his party says - within the reasonable boundaries of his obligation to represent the views and needs of the people who put him into office.

For all I know, he could be a MUCH different Veep...or President...than his Congressional record speaks to...
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
36. OK, I sense the need for humor here. From HuffPo today:
http://www.236.com/news/2008/07/22/i_want_to_be_number_...



He rates "7 Quayles" on a 1-10 Disaster Possibility, and would also make Obama seem "less manly" by comparison, according to this site--so ease your worried mind, DUers!
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. But they give him a high hotness rating
especially to the same sex. And he gets extra points for having a penis and not having gone to an Ivy league school. That was pretty funny, thanks :-).
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. I am baffled by the higher hotness rating to males than to females--
had to laugh at that.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
40. Hagel won't be Obama's VP pick. He will be in the cabinet.
.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
42. well, this thread managed to ruffle up the usual suspects!
:rofl:
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
45. it just won't happen, i don't know what the motives are for those that keep bring this up.
imagine how pissed Hillary supporters would be if a repug was picked over her?

imagine how pissed how many democrats in general would be?

all for what exactly?
a few possible dangling indie or repug votes and feel good bipartisanship?

this is stupid talk of the most idiotic kind.
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