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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 03:07 PM
Original message
This important article, with this graphic, are really making the rounds on the internet.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008...



Spread them far and wide! I've emailed all of my friends and none had ever seen it broken down so clearly before.

This is truly the great debunker when it comes to the lies about Obama raising taxes for the average person. McClaim is lying over and over about this, and getting away with it.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. Interesting how McCain's tax cuts get smaller as the income level decreases
Whereas Obama's get bigger.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yet also notice how Obama's tax cut AVERAGE (at the bottom of the table) is much smaller!
Which means much more revenue is available!
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. exactly. i'd like to see the total cost of each program.
seeing as mccain's means a bigger deficit and therefore higher interest rates....
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. That is an excellent graphic! Definitely needs to be distributed far & wide. Rec'd (nt)
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. kick nominated n/t
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shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. how much would it cost to make a billboard of this in red states?
or take out full page ads in red state newspapers?
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yes! I was waiting for a clear picture just like this. Spreading the word... n/t
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samsingh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. so the people who may not vote for Obama, in fact, will get the
biggest tax cut from Obama's plan. He is clearly not an elitist.

Mccain on the other hand is giving money to his elite friends and himself.

hopefully the people are smart enough to see this.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. kickarooni! . . .. . . n/t
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. Obama's plan is 100x - hell, 1,000,000x better. BUT....
The overall net is still a decrease in taxes. We are TRILLIONS of dollars in debt. It is fiscally irresponsible to lower taxes, and I will continue to question the judgment of anyone who says otherwise.
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comtec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. If you make it possible for the little guy to buy
then you boost the economy.
The slack is taken up by the taxes the rich are NOT paying right now.
A rising tide lifts all boats...
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
34. Just remember:
Federal income taxes are not the only source of revenue.
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Odious justice Donating Member (117 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
39. Why? Their are other sources of revenue for the government.
I don't think lowering an individuals taxes is anything but good for the economy. There are certain tax penalties that should be put upon people/companies that outsource jobs in order to import goods. However, if the millionaire next makes more money, he spends more money. He buys boats. He hires people to improve his house. He invests the money. There is no difference between those spending habits and those of the middle class. It's the same argument.

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wishlist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. Must be why Donald Trump today said he supports McCain due to tax plan
CNBC interviewed Trump this morning and he repeatedly said he supports McCain because Obama's "double taxation" would hurt the economy. As if the huge tax breaks for wealthier and corporations had been so great for the economy so far.
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Odious justice Donating Member (117 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
40. He's referring to Capital Gains tax.
he can still do a 1031 exchange though. Maybe his money isn't in real estate anymore.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. John Sidney McCain III's Family Plan, eh? K&R. /eom
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 04:48 AM
Response to Original message
13. K & R
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
14. K&R
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
15. Wow, Obama is making a huge mistake.
He's going to alienate his Elitist constituency if he raises their taxes like that.







for the sarcasm impaired: :sarcasm:
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rms013 Donating Member (105 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
16. Tax Cuts
Is there not the largest national deficit on record?. Isnt't the infrastructure crumbling? Don't we have a national health care crisis? Doesn't the U.S. Treasury owe the Social Security trust billions of dollars?

If this is true than why are tax cuts even considered. The bottom line should be in the plus and not on the back of the middle and low income earners.

McCain's proposal is ludicrous, Obama's unrealistic.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. The lower income people
will be getting larger tax cuts, meaning they have more money to spend. They are the ones more likely to return these savings to the economy. This means the higher income people who benefit from the spending will make more money, and have to pay a larger amount of tax. The net effect is increased tax revenue. This is the reverse of reagonomics, where the wealthy get the big tax breaks and throw the money in the bank, where it does the economy no good at all.
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Veilex Donating Member (115 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Your kind of missing the point
Edited on Fri Jul-18-08 12:20 PM by Veilex
Right now our economy is floudering...it's in a downward spiral and we need something to pull it out of that spiral. The easiest way to do that is to get money circulating via sales and purchases in large volumes. With 60% of the populace receiving the biggest tax break, their ability to purchase increases...particularly since many rely on their tax refunds to cover debts incurred during the holiday season (which incidentally is where most businesses make their realized profits for the year). More buying power in the hands of the general populace equates to businesses spending more money on getting those dollars...which includes hiring people and paying for advertisements. Its a positive domino effect for the economy. Mass people can buy ===> Businesses advertise and hire to capture revenue ===> Paid employees go out and buy...its kind of a capitalist society 101 type thing.

bottom line? Anything that increases buying power of the little guy increases the earning potential of the business owner...and potentially vice versa.
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emmadoggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. I totally get what you are saying,
but frankly, with the situation as it is right now, I don't see how an extra $500-$1000 a year is giving average people much extra spending money. That's not even enough to cover the higher costs of gas, energy and food.
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northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. not necessarily
that's at least partly a factor of where and how you live.

At least in my neck of the woods people have already made major adjustments to rising oil, and an extra $500 goes a long way to other things. Plus the state is looking at helping return to wood fuel, not sure if they mean burning as a temporary measure or research into biofuel cellulose from wood chip scrap from paper industry. Not everybody will go running back to oil just because of a tax break. Instead, the money will go to other necessities.

For example, the tax break could help the fisherman across the street get his boat out fishing again. They're all being forced out of business by the combo of high gas driving up costs while ocean trawlers drive down their prices. It could also help tourism, which is suffering up here as well.

For many of my fellow healthcare students, it could make the difference between them continuing on to higher pay (and higher tax paying) careers versus forced to quit school.

For me, it could help me sell a few more of my luxury items bought when I was flush to keep *me* in school so that I am able to return to working and paying income taxes.
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northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. lowering taxes for the lower income people
gives them more money to spend.

These are the people who *will* spend the money, so that will increase sales and business, hence increase sales tax revenues and business revenues, hence increase business profits and business taxes on profits. Net effect is an increase in tax revenues...Clinton proved this back in the 90s when he inherited Reagan/Bush1's then record deficits and turned them into surpluses.

Obama's plan gives aid where 1. it's most needed and 2. will have the most beneficial effect.


Whereas McCain's plan just siphones more money into secret offshore accounts. Lichtenstein, huh? Shows how behind the times I am...I always thought the Cayman Islands, Paraguay and Uruguay were the fave places for hiding money.
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
35. Income taxes are not the only source of revenue
Too many Americans foolishly think that because Republicans want you to think that.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
17. Wow.
K&R
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beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
20. K&R!
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didact Donating Member (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
21. I'd like to thank you for posting this
I must read the article
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
23. There are 3 very dumb comments to the WaPo article. nt
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World Citizen Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
24. this a great tool. I just sent out my email.
Subject: John McCain claims that Obama's Plan will raise taxes for the average person.

Text:
See for yourself. Why does John McCain feel the need to lie?

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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
25. Great graphic--thanks for posting
:kick:
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
28. K & R !
Excellent!
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JPZenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
29. And we get reduced health insurance rates too
Obama intends to use the funds from removing tax cuts for the rich to reduce health insurance costs. Therefore, the net savings for the average middle income family will be greater than the tax cuts. More people will be insured, which will reduce the average cost for people with insurance. There will be subsidies for lower income households to buy health insurance, and all children will be covered.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
30. k&r
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fiamma mama Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
31. the wa po commenter's complain it is unsourced...
...when all the lazy gits had to do was google 'tax policy center', to get the full report with further breakdowns and a list of sources.
I've done that, and here is a link the whole thing, in .pdf format.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/411693_Candi...

might want to add that to your emails, to lend veracity to the above graphic.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
33. Poor people can't even take a vacation in their own city. I'm with Obama.
Rich people go to bloody San Trope.

McCain = Poor people get zero tax cuts. Obama = Poor people get most tax cuts

I agree with Obama. Rich people can afford to do quite a bit of things and yet the people who are teh working class who can't even go to vacation in their own city because of high price costs can't get a single tax break?! Bull shit.
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caraher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
36. I actually think the graphic makes McCain's plan look artificially good
Especially the "Average Cut" line. That percent figure is calculated by averaging the % decreases - with equal weights - across the income ranges given (so that the McCain "average cut" is (4.4% + 3.4% + 3.1 % + 3% + 2.5% + 1.4% + 0.7% + 0.5% +0.2%)/9 = 2%; similarly with Obama). That is a very misleading calculation! A casual glance indicates that 2% is a vast overestimate of the McCain cut for the vast majority of taxpayers - anyone making under about $110,000 per year!

Meanwhile the graphic says the Obama "Average Cut" is 0.3%. But if you fall under $110,000 or so in annual income the percent numbers are almost all 2% or greater!

I'd hesitate to use this graphic myself - it oversells what McCain offers as a cut to the vast majority of Americans
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sandyj999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
37. Well then we just must get Barack elected! n/t
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JBoris Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
38. Kick, for those who haven't seen this. n/t
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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
41. Kick.... for clarity
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MichDem10 Donating Member (644 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
42. Excellent graphic presentation - KICK!!
:kick:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
43. Thank you,
Truthisfreedom!
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