HIllary Clinton Hates Women; John Edwards Wants To Limit Lawsuits, Richardson Hates Hispanics

[Median Democrat]

You probably read that tag line, and thought what the heck? Yet, if any of them were the nominee, and not Obama, I guarantee that this would be the discussion we would be having on this board. Why? Big media spin, and none of them are immune.

In 2000, Al Gore was running as President following 8 years of economic growth and peace. Gore should have been a slam dunk. However, Gore was spun as Gore the liar against George Bush. We are talking George Bush whose only real claim to fame was a failed attempt at running a baseball team, and a Governorship that was handed to him by virtue of his family name. Indeed, Bush was giving pretty good marks for the environment, and the media was pushing the idea of compassionate conservativism. Liberals were drawn to Ralph Nader because Gore was not liberal enough and they believed that there was not much difference between Bush and Gore. Worse, despite the success of the Clinton years, those eight years were spun as a time of shame! Remember Bush campaigning on the need to start over, change all the policies that brought success, and bring integrity back to the Presidency? Well, how did that work out?

In 2004, John Kerry - a war hero - was spun as a fraud and coward against 2 guys who dodged the draft. John McCain actively argued that military experience did not make 1 qualified to be President. Zell Miller, a pissed off democrat (much like the Democrats on this board), supported George Bush and argued that John Kerry would be defending this nation with spit balls if he was elected. So, George Bush won another term.

In 2008, Obama is being spun as a flip flopper based on 1 vote and John McCain is giving a free pass. A army of DUers (GOP Plants) have started debates regarding whether he is a true liberal while others argue that he is African American sell-out who is merely appealing to whites because it is wrong to discuss the high rate of father less African American children even though Obama grew up without his father present. The media repeatedly pounds the theme that Obama is flip flopping while ignoring the issues that directly affect us like the economy, the environment, and the war. McCain make criticizes Obama for calling for a timetable, but the media gives him a free pass when Iraq's president asks for the same thing. Liberals threaten to abandon Obama based on the FISA vote even though Obama has an 89% rating with the ACLU compared to McCain's 17%.

The media is great at whipping up emotion to overwhelm logic and facts. It is okay to critique Obama, but if you are not working hard to get him elected, then you have either been mislead by the Media.

The other great deception being spread is the idea that alternative Democratic candidates would not be facing the same type of spin. However, it is worse than that. Its not just a matter of your candidate being called a flip flopper again and again and again while the GOP candidate is given a free pass. Rather, its the fact that your candidates strengths will be attacked directly and without any basis in ethics. Fox News will offer high pay to Democrats to criticize your candidate. If your client is a woman, women from never before seen Women's rights groups will call your client a sell out.

What I am saying is that Gore, Kerry and now Obama were and are fine candidates. It is not a matter of finding the perfect candidate. Rather, it is a matter of Democrats stopping from passively waiting and hoping that some perfect candidate falls into their laps and working to take back the Presodency.

What does this mean? This means that each of you need to spread the word. Notice how the RW goes out, defaces your Democrat stickers, and tears down your signs as people have mentioned on this board. They did that to Gore, Kerry and now Obama, and the RW will continue to do that. Those are the tactics of facism. The question is whether we will display courage, or passively blame the candidate, and hope for some new candidate to walk on water for the new election?

The issues are vitally important in this election. It is time to fight back, and that means it is time to spread the word. Focus on the issues. Try to convince at least 1 undecided or McCain lean to vote for Obama. It will be hard, because Big Media has people emotionally invested against Obama and for McCain. Even when McCain fucks up, he is portrayed as a sympathetic figure. Cut through the emotional ties. Focus on the facts. It will be hard, because even on this board, people are reluctant to deal with facts, particularly to the extent that they suggest that they are going to sit this election out and wait for a candidate to walk on water in 2012.

Sorry, change is not just given to you. You have to work for it. And given the importance of the issues facing us, we do not have time to spare.

[snowbear]

1. Very nice thread ~~~ Let's go Obama!

We can't take another 4 years of r-THUGS.

[NYC_SKP]

2. K&R.....And Obama said we'd have to work hard.

Thanks for reminding us and for providing a great read before I hit the sack!

:hi:

[Median Democrat]

3. Thanks! In 2004, I Supported John Dean . . .

But he lost to Kerry in the primaries. Of course, I blamed the media for the Dean Scream baloney. I got past my disappointment, and gave more then I ever did to the Kerry/Edwards campaign. Even got to go to a nice dinner I game so much. Kerry lost, but I have not deluded myself into thinking that if John Dean had won, the result of election would have been any different.

Turn on Fox News. It is a 24/7 attack ad that not only controls the perceptions of millions of Americans directly, but those Americans run out and deface your cars, vandalize your signs, and intimidate Democrats from speaking up. Why? Because if you believed what Fox is selling, and people do, you would believe that the Democrats are trying to commit treason. Again,we dismiss Fox and ABC as fringe, but for many Americans, that is their link to current political events, and that link is dramatically warped and pervasive.

For me, now, its not about the particular person. The issues facing us are much bigger than any one person. We need to make a stand now, and stop passively hoping that an election win just falls into our lap the moment we get the "perfect" candidate. If Jesus Christ walked in the door, the GOP would turn people against him with attack ads showing that he consorts with criminals and prostitutes, and suggests that they too can enter God's kindom by repenting and asking for foregiveness. They would marginalize Jesus for his anti-free market ideals in upsetting vendor stands in the jewish temples. Finally, they would attack him as being weak on defense, since he advocates non-violence and turning the other cheek.

[snowbear]

5. No wonder Howard Dean didn't win... you voted for John Dean!

"

Thanks! In 2004, I Supported John Dean . . .

It's all YOUR fault!

..........

[Median Democrat]

9. Doh!

I guess that was why it was so hard to find his name on the ballot. j/k


Thanks for the correction.

[NYC_SKP]

6. I watched as, AGAIN, my favorite candidate, Dean, was taken down by...

...things that made no sense. The "owned" media conspired to take him out over that laugh?

I dunno.

Not this time.


BTW, you did mean Howard, not John, Dean, right?

otherwise, where the fuck am I?

:rofl:

[Median Democrat]

10. Toche' Sorry for the Typo - My point is that I do not assume that Howard Dean

Would necessarily have done better against George Bush than John Kerry. Even with John Kerry, and his military background and his foreign policy experience, you still had Zell Miller screaming at the top of his lungs that John Kerry would have been defending this nation with spitballs.

Also, remember that interview following the RNC convention when a reporter kept on asking whether Zell Miller was serious about that claim, and Zell Miller physically threatened the reporter.


So, I liked Howard Dean due to his Iraq stand, and unlike Kerry, Dean did not support the invasion. Yet, I am not going to assume that Howard Dean would have fared any better against the media onslaught.

[NYC_SKP]

12. We'll never know what might have been, but..

Isn't it satisfying to see team Obama/Dean successfully standing up to the old guard?

There's a boatload of poetic justice to it all!

[Median Democrat]

13. I Admit - I Liked Dean Because He Gave Me An Emotional Outlet

To rip on the Bush administration while Kerry was too darned reserved. However, the Dean scream likely would have been played again and again to the point of ridiculousness the way Fox played Wright and Ayers.

[John Q. Citizen]

4. Actually, I feel betrayed by Obama because of his FISA vote. I'm going to vote for him.

But I've lost my enthusiasm.

By the way, one very cool thing about the Obama campaign is they don't much believe in yard signs and bumper stickers. As Pat, the staff guy in Missoula, MT during the primary said, "Good thing that signs don't vote, or Ron Paul would be president."

I think he's right.

I'm not too worried about the fascists taking my yard sign. It usually turns out to be kids. I'm more bothered by the FISA act and the immunity, and the loss of Habeas Corpus, and the military commissions act, and torture and rendition, and national security letters, the no fly list, and all the other losses of our freedoms facilitated by mostly Republicans with the assistance of some Democrats.

I don't buy your guarantee. It's like some really weird propaganda tract.
This is one of the stranger things I've seen on this board in a while.

I think free press problems started with the telecommunications Act signed by Bill Clinton. It led to the consolidation of the media, which is antithetical to freedom of the press and to democracy itself.

I have to say, that after 7 years of rights being eroded, I am unhappy with Obama for continuing the trend. Big mistake. I hope he finds a way to mitigate it.

I agree that if you want to win, you need to show up at your local Obama office, go to your local Obama event, volunteer through the Obama web site.

That is all.

Good night.

[Median Democrat]

11. The Problem - The Emotion Of The Issue of the Moment

Many folks on DU are now calling Obama a "centrist" notwithstanding his very progressive voting record and proposals. Yes, many DUers disagree with Obama's vote on FISA. Many DUers disagreed with Hillary Clinton and John Edwards vote for the Patriot Act. However, the Patriot Act took place long ago, and memories fade. Does that mean that John Edwards is not a true progressive?

The problem with buying into this idea that Barack Obama is flip flopping or that he is suddenly renouncing his proposals, which he isn't, is that we begin to buy into the idea pushed during Gore v. Bush that there is not much difference between the candidates as noted in this recent article:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-centrists13-2008jul13,0,1800667.story

Of course, to the contrary, there are substantial differences between Obama and McCain:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g4lIWe9-SY3-yNRrs0N7rmQJO5sQD91SNMTG0

Are we confused, yet? Here's a cool website that compares their proposals:

http://obama-mccain.info/index-obama-mccain.php

Even a casual review will show that Obama and McCain offer dramatically different proposals, and I believe that most liberals would strongly prefer Obama's proposals to McCains. Thus, like Gore and Bush, where the media started pushing the idea that Bush and Gore were not too different, we are also going to get the media spin that Obama and McCain are not too different notwithstanding the facts to the contrary. Then, the media will then focus on how McCain is really a good guy, and since they are not too different, why not vote for the war hero?

Thus, I submit that the election is bigger than just one candidate. To put oneself on the sidelines based on 1 recent issue by a candidate ignores the vast number of issues on which you agree with the Democratic party platform, because this election is not about Obama, nor was it about Gore or Kerry. They were and are all fine candidates. Thus, it was a mistake then, and it is a mistake now, to sit out and not work to win on the premise that 4 years from now a candidate will walk on water and win.

[John Q. Citizen]

14. I'm not going to go lie to people at the doors and if I tell them the truth it will hurt

Obama.

Yes, Obama is better than McCain. If that's what you think will motivate people to vote, then I think you are fooling yourself.

During the primary I was a believer. I would say, "Obama is running this incredible grassroots campaign and I think he's going to actually listen to the grassroots."

Well i can't say that anymore. He pledged to the grassroots that he would help filibuster any bill with immunity. The grassroots, his own supporters formed the largest group on his web site to ask him to honor his pledge, He didn't much care that he made a pledge or that he was blowing off the grassroots.

So I guess at the door I could say, Obama is better than McCain, except on FISA and the 4th amendment. And when it comes to listening to the grassroots. But he's better on education, I think. His healthcare plan won't work because as long as the private insurers are in the game it won't be 1. affordable for everyone, 2. available to everyone and 3. You can choose your own care provider.

I used to hope that the grassroots could push Obama to get a healthcare plan that would meet those 3 criteria, but he doesn't look like he values the input of the grassroots. I mean if we couldn't get him to honor a pledge he made already to show some leadership and backbone in regards to telecom immunity, then why should we expect we could push him to take on the insurance industry or big pharma?

Look, I'd like to believe, but I don't. So i will vote for Obama, advise others to vote for Obama, and maybe I will go do some data entry one day for the campaign, where I don't have to lie about Obama or worse , tell the truth about Obama.


By the way, as far as Hillary and Edwards go, I never supported either of them for president. I backed Kucinich because I thought it was important that his message/issues got out there, I knew he wasn't going to win. After he dropped out I was leaning Edwards but never committed and then Edwards dropped out. And I started checking out Obama and his past (10-20 years ago ) was pretty cool, the way he talked was pretty cool, for instance , his statement on FISA back in OCT was great. He talked the talk, but in the end, he didn't walk the walk.

So like I say, I'm not very enthusiastic any more.

I mean it would help if Obama figured out a way to mitigate his position on FISA and immunity. I don't know how. I don't want to punish him, or hurt him, but the thrill is gone. It's like he told us he loved us, then he went and slept around with bush and the Repos, and I'm not sure I trust him anymore. I feel betrayed.

[Median Democrat]

16. Fair Enough - Its A Reasoned Response

The election that this election kind of reminds me of is the 2000 election more than the 2004 election. In that election, I know many liberals who got fooled into the idea that there was not much difference between Bush or Gore. Worse, they were arrogant in that they voted for Nader as a "protest" vote, because they assumed that Gore would still win. I am not too old, but I am jaded enough to no longer sit passively by waiting for some dream candidate to make things better.

Elections and change are bigger than just 1 person. Martin Luther King was a wonderful leader, who was an eloquent speaker, but we often forget the thousands of Americans who risked everything in marches,protests and boycotts. Everyone of them was a hero. We talk about John Kennedy's call for volunteerism. However, his call for service would have been empty if the call went unheeded.

I now realize that if we cannot simply hold our breath and wait for an election to be handed to us by virtue of a candidate that walks on water, because no candidate is beyond being smeared by the Big Media machinery that now controls what many of us thinks. The only chance for change I see is for Democrats to actively educate and preach the need for a change. The RW's do this in no small part because the evangelicals do this with respect to religion. Democrats need to do this with respect to ideas and facts.

Democrats are at a disadvantage, because RWers are already use to pushing their religious views on people. Democrats tend to preach tolerance, thus we are almost genetically programmed not to challenge the views of Republicans. Well, education is not the same thing as intolerance. Listen to the views of RWers. Empathize with why they hold these beliefs. However, we should not be ashamed to engage Republicans with why the Democrats have the better vision of where this Nation needs to go.

[John Q. Citizen]

17. We seem to be mostly in agrreement. Something that might interest you is

DFA (Democracy for America) does a thing called Night School. They do activist training sessions with experts by conference call. The next one is on Thurs at 5:30 Eastern It might interest you. George Lakoff is a linguist and a cognitive psychologist.
************************


Ever wonder why simply stating our positions on the hot button issues isn't enough to win votes? Or why Democrats who try and adopt conservative stances on issues usually lose their elections even in conservative districts?

Professor George Lakoff has the answers and will show us how to frame the solutions during the next Night School. Thursday, Professor Lakoff will be our special guest trainer; highlighting specific thinking points from his new book "The Political Mind" and teaching the framing progressives need to know to win. Join us "Live from Netroots Nation" at a special time: 5:30pm Eastern.

The Political Mind with George Lakoff
Thursday 5:30pm Eastern Time
CLICK HERE TO SIGN UP FOR NIGHT SCHOOL NOW!

Howard Dean called Professor Lakoff "One of the most influential thinkers of the progressive movement." Lakoff's 2004 book "Don't Think of an Elephant" taught progressives how to take back the message and expose Republican framing. He changed the way people speak about the issues and now he's taken it to the next level with his new book.

We'll be spending an hour with Professor Lakoff as part of this special Netroots Nation edition of DFA Night School.

Night School is DFA's interactive online training program. Every month Night School brings top campaign experts right to your home at absolutely no cost to you. Simply visit www.democracyforamerica.com/lakoff to sign up and get the info you'll need to listen to the program live Thursday afternoon or listen to the recording on your own time. As always, Night School training will be accompanied by a slideshow that you can view from your computer.

Join Professor Lakoff and me at Netroots Nation and learn the secrets of the Political Mind.

-Matt

Matt Blizek, Training Director
Democracy for America

[11 Bravo]

15. As long as you suck it up and vote for him ...

and I'll double my enthusiasm to make up for any lack of same on your part. It'll be east, I'll just repeat to myself "Supreme Court of the United States" and POOF, instant enthusiasm.

[AllentownJake]

7. Wow someone who understands we are being played

like a fiddle again.

K&R.

[AllentownJake]

8. Wow someone who understands we are being played

like a fiddle again.

K&R.