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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:09 PM
Original message
Obama should move toward the center
Now that the primary is over, it is important for Obama to move toward the center.

Over the past few decades, the republicans have been spending their propaganda time telling the middle that the liberals are weak on defense,big on tax increases, and anti-business while they will protect us and make us all rich. Must of us here know this to be untrue but it has taken some root among those who pay less attention. Their efforts have, none the less, moved the center to the right. This was indicative during the bush election when the many MSM morons pronounced the need for the democratic party to become more conservative.

Any political credit they may have earned has been wasted by a continuing record of increased spending, national debt, removal of civil liberties, economic woe,institutional dishonesty, and global instability. While they have fooled the center into looking right for so long, now is the time for us to show them that we are not extremists but rather simply the party bent on instituting equity, peace, and decency here at home.


The time is ripe and it should be clear that Obama should begin his turn to the middle as the primaries have ended. If we can move the center back to the actual center or maybe to the left some, we can begin a phase of continued progression that can last for decades on end. politicians at the local level can reap this benefit as can nominees that may come in the future.

Its time for us to go get the center square back.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. he's already in the center
it's just that most people don't know it.

my biggest problem is that he's moving to the right...
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. Obama is left and has been all along.
hes speaking to the middle
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. and because you say it it's true?
Have you read his book? It's DLC lite, at best.

Let me ask you - do you think backing four of the most right wing Supreme Court justices we've ever had in this country, not just once, but twice, is speaking to the middle?
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. i havent
but im not dumb enough to think that his policies are middle.


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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. then maybe you should
and maybe you should have been paying attention to what Obama actually was saying during the campaign, rather than what you wanted him to be saying.

Implying that other people are "dumb" because they haven't arrived at the same conclusions you have, especially when you admit to not even having read the book, is the argument of a five year old.

Grow up.
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MessiahRp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. Obama has been moving to the center
The problem is he's moving to the MSM's right leaning center on certain issues (FISA and Faith Based Initiatives mostly).

I am an Obama supporter but I'm fairly sure he's not going to be the politician that redraws the political spectrum unless he comes out full borne for restoration of media regulation and the fairness doctrine. Something I don't think he will do even in his first term knowing he has to run again and the media will attempt to destroy him if he does it.

Rp
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. i think the fairness doc is hardly left
it seems pretty clearly a right wing item.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. Commentators on Air America Radio, the most clearly Liberal of the more-or-less mainstream media,
agree with you on this.

I've heard some of them speak against the idea of mandating equal air-time for every cock 'n' bull point of view out there.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. fairness doctorine was a response to "communism" in america
it has been reawakened when the MSM swings back and forth but its still a facist alignment tool.
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MessiahRp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. If the media continues to be deregulated and owned by right wingers
Edited on Tue Jul-08-08 03:00 PM by MessiahRp
We have no alternate choices other than the two I listed to create a fair exchange of ideas. The past 8 years have shown us that they own the airwaves, that the pentagon is in on it, and that even churches are aligned to spew their filth. Between them owning the vast majority of TV, Radio and Newspaper outlets there are not a lot of ways for alternate talking points to get out and thus the authoritarian spin wins the day.

Lets also tackle this thought that it is "right wing" in nature.

Would the fairness doctrine, if it were enforced in Cold War Russia to speak against authoritarian rule be considered a right wing or a left wing tool? It's not a right or left issue at all but a way for a variety of viewpoints to be heard.

Sure some will be insane or asinine but I'd rather have a collective amount of ideas out there to provide freer thought then we have currently over one set of views no matter which side espouses it.

Rp
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. Anyone who thinks he was Left is just uninformed or up-to-no-good. nt
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. if you say so. His policies are liberal to me.
The just arent hard left.
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GihrenZabi Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Or we listened to his talk about change
At least be up front about who you are in the primary...how about a little truth in advertising? Assume I am a very busy man and provide me the basic info on yourself I need without reading your book. If you look at his voting record, it doesn't tell you a whole hell of a lot, and it's at the point where I don't trust voting behaviors to stand for the person much at all with all the procedural votes and politricking going on.

If you look at his basic history, he looks like a leftist...community activism, populist, big believer in the fairness doctrine...he does NOT look like someone who would support FISA or who would cuddle up to the ethanol industry.

Oh well. Fool me once, shame on you, not me...
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Pavlovs DiOgie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. How can you move to the center
if that's where you started?
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. yeah, because national health care is clearly in the center
just like ending iraq and expanding head start and preserving choice and pay equity and tax cuts for the low-middle, and funding the community development block grant and ....



wow, you make a great case.
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Pavlovs DiOgie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. Universal health care is left
Obama's health care plan is clearly moderate, more moderate even than Hillary's was. Ending the war in Iraq is an across the board Dem position, not left or center. Wanting early childhood expanded is hardly a leftist point of view - it's pretty mainstream core Dem, as is fixing education through the repeal or hearty reworking of NCLB. His view on "preserving choice" includes a caveat restricing some so-called late term abortions - hardly a leftist view. Another core Dem policy is lowering the tax burden from the middle/low class and shifting it to the wealthy - hardly a leftist position.

But thanks for your thoughtful yet snarky post.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. all items listed are clearly left of middle
You can make the case that hes not hard left, but you fail to make the case that hes middle.
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
6. he started in the center and has moved further right much more and McCain will be left
of him.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. i dont think you actually know the policies then
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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. McCain will be to the left of him? What a pile of crap.
A big steaming rancid pile of crap.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. because more war is clearly a left issue now huh?
you really cant be this stupid can you?
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NattPang Donating Member (993 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Wow! You really believe that?
Are you a McCain supporter?
Because only McCain supporters
would be that wacked in their thinking.

Obama is a progressive left of center
if he must be defined.

Black mixed race person raised without a father
growing up in Hawaii and a bit in Indonesia
who ends up working on the South Side of Chicago,
for almost no pay, even after graduating from Harvard,
to address the needs of that community,
and who practiced social justice law,
and led record breaking voter registration drives
while working for ACORN
and who was a member of the Trinity Church
where Rev. Wright preached for 30 years,
and who opposed the Iraq war before it even started

Is not a conservative.

But maybe it is good for some to believe it.

He is a progressive,
just not a flaming liberal.
There is a difference,
and I find it sad that flaming Liberals
are using progressive as their label,
because of their own hesitancy to use Liberal
while not affording Obama its use.

Obama is pro-choice
even if he doesn't support Late term abortions
willy-nilly, as Roe vs. Wade doesn't either.

Obama is for universal health care
even if he didn't include a mandate in his plan
other than for children up to the ages of 25.

Obama is for ending this war
even if he doesn't want to simply
pull troops out without a wise strategy.

Obama is for guarding our civil liberties
even if he might vote for a compromise FISA bill.
He didn't vote for the last FISA bill,
voted for under a different name.

Obama is for diplomacy with both
friends and enemies.

Obama is for fair trade.

Obama is for providing local communities
with the tools that they need
including allowing churches to compete
with other private enterprise for a chance
at making a local difference.

Obama is for Civil Unions.

Obama is for the regulation of big media,
and against the conglomeration of our news.

Obama is only in favor of the death penalty
for heinous crimes, and has stood in action
for equal justice under the law of all citizens.

Obama rightfully believes that
government is not the answer to
all that is wrong with our society,
which is not a conservative value,
only a common sense observation.

Obama believes that being patriotic
is more than just talking about it.

Obama believes in dissent.

Obama believes in appointing judges
who are empathetic to the plight of
the minority of us.

I repeat,
Obama is a progressive.

To say otherwise is a gross distortion,
and will only be said by those who
are against him.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Agreed. As long as "Left of Center" =/= Left. It's some PORTION of the Left side of the Center. nt
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
28. you really think anyone supporting McCain wants him tagged as left of Obama?
take it easy, Obama is as centrist as Clinton, he just had to run left of her to win the primary.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. That's a joke. nt
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. Yes it is, glad somebody got it. nt
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
15. that way
even if we win, we also get to lose.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
19. It's not about MOVING to the center. It's about CAMPAIGNING
to the center.

In the primaries he, as a centrist, campaigned to the left, and could do it very effectively because of his personal background in community activism.

Now that the primary is over, he's speaking to the larger audience, and can do so very effectively because he is, and always has been, a left-leaning centrist. All he has to do is express to the center why Democratic principles are better and more effective in dealing with national security, the economy, the environment. He has the skills to do it.

He doesn't need to move to the right, or adopt RW positions to gain the center - merely point out how the right has failed, and thus move the center toward the left.

It's time to bring back the old challenge - are you better off today than you were 8 years ago? I can tell you why you are not.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. thats exactly right
Which is what i believe he is doing now.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
25. He's been there the whole time.
He's always been a left-center candidate. But this FISA thing is fucking disappointing.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
31. The only thing Obama should do is stick to what got him here in the first place
He's a strong promoter of diplomacy. He needs to stick to that message. Most people in this country are sick of war.

He needs to stick to his positions on the environment and not give in one iota to Republicans who would love to continue raping and pillaging our forests and wildlife.

He needs to keep inspiring.

Obama shouldn't move anywhere but where he's always been.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
32. True. He's way too far to the right.
He needs to be more in line with the majority of Americans.

NGU.



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