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What about McShame's treason in 1968?

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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-29-08 11:33 PM
Original message
What about McShame's treason in 1968?
In August of 1968, a program of severe torture began on McCain.<44> McCain was subjected to repeated beatings and rope bindings, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery.<44> After four days, McCain made an anti-American propaganda "confession".<33> He has always felt that his statement was dishonorable,<45> but as he would later write, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_mccain

I've read here that we aren't supposed to attack his military service. He surrendered his military identity. The acts of treason were expunged, probably due to his father's position. Is that typical? What happened to other prisoners who gave up information.

I do feel some guilt even writing this. Is it a factor or should I look elsewhere for his failings. I'm afraid that something like this (painting him with shame) could be used against other current military personnel.
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trixie Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-29-08 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. I would pass on that
I wouldn't blame anyone who is a POW and being tortured with statements they make. We can agree his role as president is a bad move without bringing that up.
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cstanleytech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Agreed, all it will do would provide ammo for them to use against the democrats
so they cant attack him with that.
Now that recent "no" vote for that spending bill for veterans benefits of his, that might prove useful.
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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-29-08 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. Do more research into his military record
starting with his years at the naval academy an his sorry career as a pilot before he was shot down. You will find out that you don't even need to bring up his behavior in confinement in order to make him look bad. He was a poor officer and a very substandard pilot. He was also transferred to another carrier once for his own protection because it was widely believed that he had caused an explosion which too the lives of 160 or so of his shipmates.

There is ample basis for criticism of McCain's military record without dealing with what he did in prison.
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. The Forrestal disaster is why he's called "Wet-start McCain."
;)
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dems_rightnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
25. Oh, good.
I was afraid it was sexual.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-29-08 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. Not that I support it, but there will be some 527 ads about this in the fall
527s suck.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-29-08 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. This story is about as sad & dead end as the Hillary tax return "scandal".
There's more than enough bad stuff about McCain's policy positions to sink him. Why reach out for shit like this?
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
6. That's not treason
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
7. Wait... are we still against torture?
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
9. We don't need to drag out shit like this
leave that kind of swiftboating to the reTHUGs. Using this kind of crap is just stupid and will backfire on us. Get the guy on his present policies not on ancient history.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 03:45 AM
Response to Original message
10. I don't think there's a person alive that wouldn't crack under torture
Hell I'd crack at just the threat of it.

That said Wes Clark was dead on in his comments today. That's all that needs to be said about McCain's military service.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:57 AM
Response to Original message
11. People often have sympathetic feelings toward tortured US POWs
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
12. Please don't go there.
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
13. If you go there, we lose and lose badly.
Everyone knows they would crack under torture.
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jzodda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
14. This angers me to read this crap on our forum
Edited on Mon Jun-30-08 07:47 AM by jzodda
Lets run an honorable campaign ok? These issues are HUGE FUCKING loser issues for us. To spread this around makes us sound like kooks. The guy spent years as a pow. Attack him on policy but have some FUCKING RESPECT! Calling him a traitor?

Man what a winning issue.... NOT!
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iconicgnom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
15. That isn't treason. It's wrong to hold the military to impossible standards.
The only people that don't break under torture are in the movies. Under torture reason and human will vanish and a person will say or do anything. Under sustained psychological and physical torture a human can be turned permanently into a vegetable.

I detest McCain's politics - but I can see no reason to doubt the intensity of his suffering throughout the prolonged ordeal of his POW years.
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
16. Succumbing to torture should NOT be called "treason"
That's inflammatory and inaccurate language.

However you ask a good question. Were any other POW's, of lesser means and family connections within the military, treated less graciously? Given Bad Conduct Discharges? Charged with treason?

John Kerry was vilified in 2004, and his patriotism called into question, because he opposed the War in Vietnam, when he came home. Not, as they claimed, because of the character of his service. That was BS, eh? I don't think WE, should subscribe to those same tactics. Wrong is wrong.

It IS relevant that McCain was tortured, had a principled stand against torture while serving as a Senator, then caved in to Bush for political expediency.

It IS relevant that he was tortured and has an issue with rage.

It IS relevant that his PTSD is being covered up.

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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
17. Succumbing to torture is not treason
I say look elsewhere. McCain's history as a POW isn't anything for us except that it is not a qualification for the presidency. But we should not seek to smear his personal character through his POW experience.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
18. MC CAIN WAS NEVER TORTURED!
He was subjected to ENHANCED INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES, to use the verbiage of the current administration.
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sourmilk Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
19. Having never been tortured...
Edited on Mon Jun-30-08 08:57 AM by sourmilk
...I cannot say that my reaction would be any different. As a veteran, I will say, however, that casting aspersions on his character though his torture and incarceration by the NVA is a really shitty way to attack him and is doomed to backfire.

Attack his judgemtnt on security through his 2007 trip through a Baghdad market - you know, the market that (reported by McSame) General Petraeus was able to drive through in an "unarmoured HumVee?" Remember? The market that was RAIDED the very day after McLame's little jaunt (with armoured HumVees, Apache Helicopters and over 100 armed soldiers) and had 21 merchants taken out by insurgents AND SHOT TO DEATH?

Attack his TEMPER. How many other Senators (other than Cheney) have called a multitude of colleagues "jerks" and "assholes" on the Senate Floor?

Attack his marital record. His abandonment of his first wife, his calling his current one "a c*nt," etc.

Attack his immigration policies as slavery for agribusiness.

Attack his blind support for free trade of any stripe, at any cost.

Attack his support of current unjust wars and his drumbeating for a new one against Iran.

Attack his selling-out of the POW-MIAs on the Senate floor.

Attack his flip-flopping.

Any attack on his military record is doomed to fail, unless someone can actually get their hands on the transcripts of those 32 pro-NVA/VC speeches.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
20. I've been represented by McSame for 25 years, can't wait till he's retired, but this is hands off.
It's bad politicking and an absolute ethical void. No, No, No.
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. I agree.. there is no need for it either
and it is the thing the right wing has been breathlessly waiting for..because they have that history of attacking McCain's service in 2000..and want to get out from under it..nothing better than trying to pin that on the democratic party..besides.. the man is a war hero.. does not mean he is a good politician.or that he should be president..I am totally with you on this..
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
22. This is an excellent idea, if our goal is to be like the freepers.
Otherwise this strategy is beyond the pale and has no place among decent people.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
23. This claim is crap and you know it. nt
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dems_rightnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
24. Treason????
So if Freepers kidnap a DU'er and torture them until they issue a statement agreeing to support McCain..... should that DU'er be tombstoned for said writing?
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wakemeupwhenitsover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
26. locking at the request of the OP.
best,
wakemeupwhenitsover

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