Dem Strategist: On Laying Gloves and Fighting Back

[Dem_Strategist]

We Dems often make a fundamental mistake when assessing the effects of Repub attacks. Swift Liars is a great example: on the one hand, we believe (rightly) that we're facing a ruthless opponent, a complicit media, and an uninformed electorate. On the other hand we freak out if our opponent lands a couple of body blows.

In the end, the forces arrayed against us are formidable, especially the whore press. What makes John Kerry a winner is that he'll take the punches and come back swinging.

There's no need to be alarmed or surprised if the other side gets a few good licks in. It's unavoidable. The important thing (and the thing that causes endless consternation among Kerry's enemies) is that he keeps coming back and WINS.

[Triana]

1. I have every confidence in Kerry...

...and in his judgement and intelligence and ability to fight. What scares me most and what the majority of my energy seems to go toward, is fighting the damn media...GOD I hate the media!

:mad:

[AlinPA]

2. If he doesn't fight back here, now, and every day about this damn Vietnam

stuff, he is going to be in big trouble. Here's what's going to happen: in the next day or so, Bush* will say that the swiftboat ad is "not nice" and the media will drop the story, leaving Kerry with no way to repair the damage already done. Those dirty bastards in the White House are not that stupid when it comes to low road politics.

[meti57b]

3. another mistake, Dems expect our candidate to deal with the smear, alone.

We need organization out there for rebuttal of this rubbish and to launch our own attack on the republican candidate.

We can't expect one person (our candidate) to do all of the rebuttal and the attack. The republicans certainly don't expect their candidate to handle all that by himself.

[apnu]

5. absolutely.

We need some sort of lasting alliance among the liberal factions. With out such, in the long run, we might as well give up and assume the position for a one party system.

[madfloridian]

11. We have been activists here for years.

I have been getting almost daily letters from media groups to respond to attacks. It is the party itself who has not been fighting. We have tried.

[unfrigginreal]

4. You may be underestimating the significance of this body blow.

I think most here expect shots fired from the other side and realize what we're up against with the press and the Bush smear team. The concerns that you saw expressed on this board was that the Kerry team was letting it get out of hand. The latest polling suggests that that may be the case.

Let's hope that the next time the TV news outlets push the swift boat liars, that they get the word out about the scum behind these ads now that they've been exposed. That won't happen unless the Kerry spokespeople make it happen.

[madfloridian]

6. You need to remember something. We here HAVE been fighting.

A lot of us here have been fighting back hard for a long time. This media activism is not new here. I have been here about 2 years, many have been doing it much longer.

See, we are the ones who were calling and protesting against this invasion of Iraq.

We got spun by our own Democrats in congress. I remember some of those calls to certain candidates. The decision was made early on, and there was no turning back.

I called Edwards campaign office among others on the day we started the shock and awe bombing. I simply said how do you think he feels today. After 5 minutes of talking, I finally got that he supported the war but hated the killing. Hilary's office and Kerry's office, much of the same.

I called Nelson's office and was told that though almost 3000 called to protest the war....they had to listen to the ones who did not call. How about that?

Yet, I and many others like me, INCLUDING some here who worked hard against the war......are supposed to start understanding all of a sudden that the media twists things?

Hell, we know they twist. I have sent research to reporters for two years. I had a Tampa Tribune reporter tell me they knew, but they could not write about it or they would lose their jobs. She then said she and her hubby got their news from overseas.

Sadly, the worst spin we got was from our own Democrats....go figure.

Sometimes we have to get past all the spin from our own, or we suffer dearly for it.

You have referred back to my use of the word condescension. It is condescending to think we are not bright enough to know that our guys knew it was a wrong-headed war.

That said, we donated to Kerry and will vote for him. Just don't yank our chains about the "nobody suspected" stuff.

[deutsey]

10. Excellent post

Thanks. :thumbsup:

I also remember in 2002 here on DU being assured that the Dems had a strategy and knew what they were doing...and we saw how well that all worked out in the elections that year.

Also, regarding being hip to media distortion: Anyone who protested the theft of the 2000 election knows how biased the corporate-owned media are. What I saw in the streets of DC that day was nowhere to be found in the mainstream media.

[liberalnurse]

21. You are so on target!

We have been in the trenches!

[KittyWampus]

37. No One Said You DIDN'T Fight Back

but go ahead and use another DU'er as your whipping boy.

And apparently you misread the Original Posters message because it was about Kerry necessarlily taking some blows and not getting overly twisted up about it.

It was NOT about "start understanding all of a sudden that the media twists things".

[bigtree]

7. Can you stay with us awhile and flesh this out for the anxious here?

We need some real direct responses to the anxious that will make them understand that the campaign has not been flat-footed. It's clear that Kerry has some of the best minds in the party, in politics, advising him and directing his campaign. I have had complete confidence that they have a winning strategy and are doing everything they can to fight back against an array of entrenched forces in the media and the government who have an interest in maintaining Bush in office.

Can you outline just what the campaign has been focused on in the last few weeks and why?

[gasperc]

8. we also know and are bracing for the anti-Vietnam attacks

here they will be truly ruthless, this initial smear seems to have just been a softening up campaign, expect far, far worse

we need to get battle hardened and stick with Kerry no matter what because Bush has nothing positive to run on and will do all he can to make Kerry radioactive

[auburngrad82]

9. Taking the fight to them

Democrats have traditionally been on the defensive when it comes to running against the republicans. We need to change the way we campaign and be more assertive and less defensive. The republicans have done a great job of convincing a massive number of Americans that we are weak on defense, weak on the economy, anti-family, blah blah blah. And we know it's all untrue. We need to initiate a huge information disemination campaign showing that it was a Democrat who brought us out of the depression (Roosevelt), it was a Democrat that gave us the longest period of growth that we've ever had (Clinton), It was Democratic presidents that took us through WWI and WWII, etc etc etc.

Then we need to get ugly with the right-wingers on family values issues. Any and all evidence of wrong-doing by right-wing officials needs to be publicly aired. It has to be documented and factual but we need to bring to light that many of these "family value" proponents are really worse than their followers can possibly imagine.
Bob Barr, Newt Gingrich, Henry Hyde, Rush Limbaugh, all of these pillars of virtue need to be identied as the hypocites that they are.

I'm tired of hearing and reading about how weak and poor Democrats are. We need to educate people and reverse the trend of negative impressions of the Democratic party.

[xray s]

12. I am glad he's fighting back

I would have liked to seen it a bit sooner.

The attack by the SBVT goes beyond the usual attack. It is worse than showing Dukakis in a tank, or even the Willie Horton ad. This attack was aimed at Kerry's honor on the battle field, and the honor of the men who fought with him.

Them's fighting words where I come from. Defense of honor should be our theme, facts should be our weapons.

Hit these bastards hard.

[quaoar]

13. The whore press?

"In the end, the forces arrayed against us are formidable, especially the whore press."

You make it sound like a massive organized conspiracy arrayed against Kerry. The differences between the press today and the press of 20 years ago is the emergence of cable news, the 24/7 news cycle and the right-wing press (including talk radio). Lots of whores there.

The mainstream press pretty much acts the same way it always has. The press has always been used by campaigns. The press knows that it is used by campaigns. Campaigns allow themselves to be used by the press. It's a symbiotic relationship. These rules have been clear for a very long time.

So whatever whoring is going on is a consentual relationship between adults.

[snippy]

14. Every democrat in the country needs to include in every public statement

something to the effect that it is easy to understand why Bush and the republican party want to talk about a war that ended 30 years ago rather than the war that is going on right now and the other issues that are important to the country right now. If the media asks a Congressman about the price of oil, the Congressman needs to mention that all Bush and the republicans want to focus on is a war that ended 30 years ago. If the media asks a Congressman about the economy, the Congressman needs to mention that all Bush and the republicans want to focus on is a war that ended 30 years ago. If the local media asks a Congressman about a local issue, the Congressman needs to mention that all Bush and the republicans want to focus on is a war that ended 30 years ago. The democrats also need to get friendly pundits to hammer on this.

[Skidmore]

15. Yipperdoodle!!! nt

[Kukesa]

20. Excellent point, Snippy! n/t

[Beetwasher]

16. Blow Up The Whole Smear Bigger Than Life

That's the only way the dirty underbelly can be seen by everyone. Plaster it everywhere, let everyone know about it and the honest people, the one's that matter, will see filth.

[WI_DEM]

17. Problem is that Kerry waited too long with counter attack

This story has been brewing for two weeks or more and Kerry just began his major counter attack yesterday--brilliantly so, but way too late and it did do damage. I've spoken to people who have seen the ad and BELIEVE IT!! The new CBS poll out today has a dramatic tightening of the race with Kerry losing ground among Independents and veterans and they say the Swift Liars Ad was a big reason for it.
The only way to fight Rove and company is to swiftly demolish their arguements and then counter attack. Bush's military record should now be hit and hit hard--there is real ammunition in his record.

[Democat]

35. Two weeks was way too long to wait

Anyone could see that. Anyone but Kerry's campaign maybe.

[KittyWampus]

39. Except MAYBE They Knew More Than You.

Gee, could that be possible?

That THEY knew about the WP and NYTimes articles and YOU didn't?

[kodi]

18. what complete f*cking nonsense

DS came here last week and told DUers to cool their jets and let Kerry's quiet political judo do its thing about the Swift Boat Veterans For Revenge.

that worked out really well didn't it?

recent polls show that nearly 25% of independents/undecided have increased doubts now about kerry because of the ads and reports by the Swift Boat Veterans For Revenge.

things just got worse and now kerry has lost 7-10 days putzing around before he came out on the counter-attack.

now another thread is started by DS with remarks that tell us such things were expected and now kerry is beginning to strike back.

so which is it now? political judo or kerry's swinging back?

or is it the heralded "nuance" Kerry people are pointing to which the democratic nominee is known for?

what the fuck is with this? sounds like sophist ass covering by political strategists now that what many have said here about the need to strike back hard and swiftly is self-evidently necessary.

we are now weeks into this right wing smear, there are many undecided voters who heard no-thing for weeks from the Kerry camp countering and agressively attacking the rumors of the Swift Boat Veterans For Revenge clowns.

anyone with the brains that god granted to gopher can see this lack of instantaneous response has hurt kerry.

but to come here and post with an attitude of "see? see? kerry is striking back!" is sophmoric chest thumping for closing the damned barn door AFTER the horse has fled the barn.

it makes no sense and is revisionist history about what has happened these past few weeks.

only yesterday did kerry stand up and start coming back after bush himself about this. weeks went by and i would find it hard to believe that weeks ago kerry and his people did not know this was directed by the white house.

as to kerry taking body blows and expecting it, what the hell does that mean? that kerry knew a punch was coming, but that he did nothng to prevent it? or that he is incapable of protecting himself from such attacks.

what has pissed me off about this DS and his/her posts is the obvious attitude that he/she and the democratic leadership knows better how to deal with the GOP than rank and file democrats.

if that is so, how come the GOP holds control of all the branches of the federal government?

anyone see a lot of success there of democratic party strategy?

this is some sort of "cunning plan" that would make the Black Adder proud.

[Dem_Strategist]

19. Lots of noise in your post

but unproductive.

I've made three main points since I got here:

The media is Kerry's main opponent and the more you organize to fight it, the better.

Kerry is doing things that the media filter won't let you know so when you say he or his campaign should do this or that, you're presuming he hasn't as opposed to presuming you're not being told about it by the gatekeepers.

Kerry knows what he's doing , and he's a smart fighter.

[madfloridian]

24. Many of us are smart fighters as well. Our country is living a lie.

We know this whole thing is based on false premises, premises we knew were wrong.

Playing the game got us into Iraq, and what a mess that is. Now we have the lectures on how to fight back, how to nuance, how to sort of fight back.

Then we all cheer when Matthews put Malkin in her place, only we know he will transform back into Tweety the next day.

The saddest thing of all is that this country is living a big lie right now. A really really big lie. Its name is Iraq. Its victims are many.

And only a few of our Democrats, and a few Republicans with soul, have dared to say so. When you fight battles based on lies, and you refuse to call them by their name, then you run into trouble.

Many of us here have been fighting so hard on this, that mere words of nuance and niceness just don't hack it anymore.

That said, we are voting for Kerry and we donated to him.

[Skidmore]

28. Thank you!!! Well said and a heartfelt endorsement for

your point comes with this post.

[kodi]

31. you knew the media was the foe, and did nothing to turn them around

The media is Kerry's main opponent and the more you organize to fight it, the better.

Kerry is doing things that the media filter won't let you know so when you say he or his campaign should do this or that, you're presuming he hasn't as opposed to presuming you're not being told about it by the gatekeepers.

Kerry knows what he's doing , and he's a smart fighter.

knowing this, still you sat on your asses and did not deliver immediately the goods to the media to allow them debunk the Swift Boat Veterans For Revenge ads.

you have failed in this type of thing repeatedly over the last several weeks.

you can not have it both ways, to bitch about the media being against kerry yet not be prepared to counter their failings.

i have to laugh about your remarks. you must think that the people on this site just fell off the turnip truck and have not been paying attention the last several years.

you think we don't know what the media does? what the GOP smear machine does? that we have not turned off our tv sets and sought out the real deal from the foreign press, C-SPAN, radio shows and internet sites like this and others on the Left? that we do not go to the kerry/edwards campaign site daily to find out directly what kerry and edwards are saying and doing? that we are ignorant of the filters and gatekeepers of public discourse?

you are acting like we are too stupid to see what is happening and only you have divine providence here.

patting us on the head around here like we are a bunch of country bumpkins who have no knowledge of the political and cultural scene in America will get your hand bitten off.

DUers are the informed shock troops of the democratic party, we are as a group overwhelmingly more informed than any political strategist out there.

i like john kerry, i think he is a good man. but i think that if he continues to listen to political advisors like you, we will have 4 more years of george bush.

as to "gatekeepers"

I understand the consequences of what Noam Chomsky has said about the media and its impact on the manufacturing of public consent, and I question, in strenuous terms whether or not you actually do.

“The major media are large corporations, owned by and interlinked with even larger corporations, they sell a product to a market. The product they sell is the popular viewer, their customers are the corporations that buy advertising, and the picture of the world represented reflects the narrow and biased interests and values of the sellers, the buyers, and the product. Profits and the issues drive the media and items reported are for the financial benefit of the companies that own these enterprises. The fact that the posing of the information delivered is not for the benefit of the people, as we would define the presses role is obvious. No issues will be debated or given much play that make the audience, advertisers or press them uncomfortable, regardless of its value to the nation and its people.”

[creeksneakers2]

34. If Kerry stays on the swift boat thing much longer

He'll be on defense. The whole strategy of the Fascists is to make Kerry look weak. People on the defensive look weak. There's always the chance too that they'll find something Kerry can't defend against.

Kerry needs to go on the offensive about Bush's record on the WMD right now, while he's still up on the swift vet story. He needs to prove that Bush either was amazingly incompetent in not knowing that the intelligence was flawed, or Bush lied. He can probably prove both.

I know Kerry was no hero when they were lying about the WMD. There are lots of things Kerry could say though like:

"I gave Bush the authority. Are they saying I was wrong to do that now?"

"Bush claims to be a leader but when he's asked to explain his own actions he complains that somebody should have stopped him."

Lots of things work on defense while you're on offense. Tell Kerry to get a pair.

[bigtree]

36. The Kerry campaign addressed 4 other issues in addition to the smearvets

yesterday alone. Were you aware of these? If so, did you disregard them in favor of using webspace to criticize our own nominee? How many posts have you made highlighting the actual efforts of the Kerry campaign?

There are the responses to the swiftliars
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?ReleaseID ...
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?ReleaseID ...
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?ReleaseID ...

then there were statements on:

-prescriptions- "Americans Could Have Discount Prescription Prices From Canada Tomorrow if George W. Bush Would Give the Word; Bush Should Stop Tap Dancing and Support the Bipartisan Legislation"
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?ReleaseID ...

-Zell Miller Keynoting the GOP Convention
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?ReleaseID ...

-Cheney and Bush Were For A Strong Presence on the Korean Peninsula Before They Were Against It, Says Kerry Campaign
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?ReleaseID ...

-Kerry Outlines Health Care Plan to Bring Down Costs for Families, Strengthen the Economy, Create Jobs; Report Shows Skyrocketing Health Costs Have Led to Job Loss
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?ReleaseID ...

[jonnyblitz]

22. excellent post.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :hi:

[TWiley]

32. Try a nerve tablet.

I really do not understand your animosity.

The First amendment is the most important one of all. Free speech is the only thing that separates us from countries run by despots.

Too many Americans have been brainwashed into thinking that the 2nd amendment is the only one worth fighting for. They also tend to be the ones who are the most intolerant of others views.

As Democrats, we might want to consider what will happen if both sides get too riled up over the "wrong" combination of a noun, a verb,and an adjective.

[Guaranteed]

33. You know, I think you're just giving everyone too much credit.

You're expecting way too much from political analysts....brilliant creativity in a cunning quadruple-cross alternately laid, quantum-like, over the top of the last fienish strike.

I'm not sure it's ever that complicated. It's really easy to read too much into this stuff.

[democrank]

23. I`m not freaking out but......

I am concerned. Kerry let this swiftboat thing fester way too long. CNN`s Bill Schneider reported this morning that even though Kerry and Bush were about even after our convention, veterans now favor Bush by about 18 points. There has been some damage done for sure.

I expect the Bush Team to show no mercy and land a few blows, just like they did to Senators McCain and Cleland. I also expect the mainstream press to continue with their abomnible practices. What I`m hoping for is a sudden charge of courage from Democratic leaders.

[bigtree]

26. Bill Schneider

CNN polls :eyes:

[michigandem2]

29. my problem is this

please no flaming...

as SOON as Kerry opened his mouth the "rapid response" team from the bushies was firing back...

Clinton said that they need to fight back QUICK and hard..I KNOW the media doesn't show all..but seriously when Kerry spoke up..the media listened...ya know?

We need to fight back and be ready immediately..not letting something last for 2 weeks while these SBVBush are out pimping the cable news channels--he said NOTHING...

I think he did good yesterday, I am glad he spoke up...BUT we need RAPID resonse...RAPID--most of the people that had an opportunity to listen to the liars for 2 weeks heard a PEEP from Kerry then the bushies batting his peep down...

but I am not angry at Kerry..and I plan to vote for him...I think its an unfair fight..but we can still win

[Nite Owl]

25. Yes, D_S there is reason for alarm.

The whole strategy is wrong. We should expect attacks sure but we have plenty of material of our own to attack with FIRST. Anyone knew they would fight dirty this is Karl Rove's thing, this a Bush* what did you expect. There is much we can be attacking on and nothing is too low. It's not a matter of it would be nice to win this we have to win this. Initiate an attack, put them on the defensive, be the story not just the reaction. And if attacked get an ad up immediately. Where is the DNC anyway?
Maybe you guys are the pros but we are the ones out here that have the gut reactions, that talk with people and know what the reactions are and this SBL thing got legs while you guys were sitting around saying no one will believe this. You are talking about a public that watches survivor shows not documentaries.
The best way to answer them is to change the subject with our own attacks on our terms and make them answer. And do it quickly.

[ljm2002]

27. There's a difference...

...between "freaking out" and responding appropriately.

I for one get really, really tired of being told that those of us who are concerned about the effects of the SBVT ads, and who advocate hitting back, are "freaking out", or engaging in "hand wringing" or what have you. Why shouldn't we voice our concerns? Remember, John McCain and Max Cleland were winners, too, until the Bush/Rove smear machine got going against them.

Now, it appears that Kerry has hit back hard. Good on him for doing so. I hope it works. It certainly raises my enthusiasm for him.

And I have to say, my first thought on hearing of his hard hitting speech: hmmm, maybe some of what we've been saying here has made its way back to the campaign. Ya think?

[PurityOfEssence]

30. The Intelligence Votes commercial is the most damaging

It needs to be debunked immediately, with specific corrections to the statistics and an accusation of deliberate misrepresentation.

Junior needs to be hit with an ad pointing out how feathering his cronies' nests is much more important than the troops or national security. Use the unscrupulousness of their ads against them, but only to start; then hit back with a counterattack that puts them on the defensive.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Skinner]

40. I'm locking this thread.

For my thoughts on this, please see here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=641274&mesg_id=642098&page=