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shugah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:11 PM
Original message
DU is so predictable
Edited on Sun Jun-22-08 10:47 PM by shugah
i read DU regularly during GD :P . i did see the relevance of the "this is Obama Underground!" statements. (i'm an Obama supporter, have been for quite some time, tho he was not my first choice.)

i've been at DU for years. while i could have predicted that many here would realize that Obama has feet made of clay, i am shocked at how quickly it happened. holy christ, people! y'all just really like to fight on the internet, dontcha?

yesterday, Obama was our saviour. today, he has betrayed us all! *outrage* *venom* *blah blah blah*

here's a newsflash: DU members will pillory anyone, for any reason, at any time. why? i don't exactly know, but it happens all the time. it's been this way for years.

i'm going to go ahead and keep trying to hang on to this hope. it's the best i've had since jimmy carter told us to turn down our thermostats.
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Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. Some people just gotta have an enemy. NT
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
58. Some people are realists. NT
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. IF you though that the Carter years were good, then you'll love Obama's.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Carter-bashing in order to bash the Democratic nominee?
Expected.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Quick, remind me about the good things that happened during the Carter years.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Egypt and Israel signed a peace accord
and the world was on track to a real peace in the Middle East.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
69. I was about to post the same thing. Imagine if it had happened and Sadat
had survived...

Aaaah, I can at least imagine.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
26. You must have missed that Middle East peace treaty
that has been honored to this day. You sound like a Reagan-loving douchebag.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. um, yeah he does, innit to laugh...
:rofl:
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. Worked out great. Lots of peace in the middle east after that.
Edited on Sun Jun-22-08 10:32 PM by The_Casual_Observer
Just ask Sadat.
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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. so the middle east would have been better off
without the peace accords? Yes, Sadat was a martyr for peace--so was Rabin. At least Carter drove sworn enemies together so they could make a start.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. Apparently Carter good , Clinton bad is the only song that gets sung
around here.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. methinks someone has a crush on the "Big Dawg"!!!11!!!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Keep singing.
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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. I didn't know that was the binary.
Can you point me to something that makes that argument?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #46
63. Carter good. Clinton good.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #35
61. Egypt and Israel still have a peace accord
you're being ridiculous.

This isn't a site for trashing good Dems - and Dems don't get much better than Carter. His Presidency was flawed and he had many challenges, but to denigrate his efforts in the Middle East is just downright freeperish.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #35
64. Have Israel, Syria, and Egypt all been in a war together like 67 or 73 since then?
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #6
67. We had a democrat in the WH
and not Nixon or Ford or Reagan or a Bush.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
70. Energy consumption and alternative energy policies.
:shrug:
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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. another lovely post about Sen Obama
:eyes:
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. A little sensitive are you? For all you know I could have loved the Carter
years & this is a complement.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. um.... yeah....sure.... people familiar with DU have read your posts you know. don't try that coy BS
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. So, what's so bad about Carter?
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. you can't spin what you implied, but nice try. you've been anti-Obama for a looong time.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Do you think that Obama can measure up to Carter?
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. of course. since you are clearly implying that an Obama presidency will be shitty, it's on you to
explain why. you're not half as clever as you think you are.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. No, and you didn't even bother to imply it did you?
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. huh? that's not even coherant. keep trying.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. Did you really think carter was shitty? I never said it, you did.
Go ahead, say it again.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. you don't have the intellect to peddle what you are trying to attempt to.
:rofl:
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. Oh, now it's personal insult time. It's inevitable around here.
Buzz off.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. when you try to peddle crap poorly. it sure is bound to happen, isn't it?
:eyes:
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. You can't do better than that.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. i really don't need to, chum.
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Pathetic! nt
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
41. let's keep this really simple so you can understand;
1) you have been totally anti-obama for a long time.
2) you're adopting a RW meme that carter sucked, and then say obama will be like carter, but you really imply he will be "worse"
3) if you think you are fooling anyone with your bullshit, then pat yourself on the back.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
45. your posting history betrays you. busted
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PM7nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. WTF?
Have you EVER said ANYTHING positive?
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shugah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. i didn't say a thing about "the Carter years"
i was there, and not "observing casually." turning down the thermostat was, and remains, a good idea - a way we consumers can save a little bit of $ and lessen our footprint on this earth.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. In the winter or the summer?
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shugah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
57. i know you're not being obtuse on purpose
so why bother posting such a thing? your hornets nest has nothing to do with my post. :shrug:
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asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
31. Turning down the thermostat
reminded me of those years. I worked at a university and they had everyone turn down the thermostat to 68 degrees. Well it is a university on top of a mountain and it got COLD. I found a cartoon out of a New Yorker magazine that showed military troops breaking in on an old man and woman dressed in their jammies and had blankets around their shoulders to keep warm. The military was the "Thermostat Police" and they were going to run them in for having set their thermostat on 72. I cut it out of the magazine and tacked it right outside the dean's office.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. So, you liked the Reagan years better? (nt)
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. way to pull together and root against the home team cause your candidate didn't win....
:eyes:
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Was Carter that bad? Apparently Clinton was terrible & Carter was good.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. that's a non-answer answer. keep trying...
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. You tell me about Carter.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. oh, so now this is now a civics test on carter? you're transparent, you are not fooling anyone.
:rofl:
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. You haven't got anything to say. You are flummoxed.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. not really. you have nothing to back up what you are implying. have fun trashing while you can.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
66. They were good
as it happens.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. I am going to question all of our Democrats when they do a sell-out like FISA
It is not directed solely at Obama, but this fear of being critical is going over board.

Good grief.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
37. It is simply inexplicable, the way in which people we thought
we could trust to represent us, have caved to the administration. I think that is what underlies the magnifying glass we now use to examine all actions of candidates and others. I for one, am increasingly fearful that I don't know who to trust and I simply can not understand the seeming disconnect. The possible explanations are paranoia-inducing, that's for sure....
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shugah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
38. it's just an observation, madFLA
about how predictable DU is. i'm not invested personally in the observation. i watched many Obama supporters convolute extraordinarily during the primary to defend Obama. i am just noting that the internet gymnastics are suddenly absent. and commenting that it in no way surprises me that Obama has now earned some serious detractors on DU - only that it happened so quickly.

if Kucinich, Edwards, Gore, or even Jimmy Carter (praised mostly highly on DU) were suddenly the Dem nominee, i assure you, there would suddenly be peeps coming out of the woodwork to condemn any one of them.

i'm just observing, from i guess, a somewhat amused point of view - DU is so predictable.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Predictable, but also understandable, I think........n/t
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. Well, selling out privacy and letting Bush off the hook...are pretty serious things.
Edited on Sun Jun-22-08 10:38 PM by madfloridian
Many of the bloggers who are lawyers, especially the constitutional litigators, are shocked and alarmed.

This is something they could have left undone while Bush was still prez...but they did not.

It is serious.
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shugah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #44
59. i am not happy with what appears to be Obama's FISA vote
nothing you can say will make me like it.

it wasn't my point anyway. my point was the predictability of DU. if you've been here long enough, it really does become predictable.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. You're going to the extreme in your
descriptions. Obama was never the "savior"..he's our candidate who won and after 8 years of the bushits and war on Iraq..he and his team are like a light at the end of the tunnel.

And, I don't get that "feet of clay" reference nor do I want to..'cause it sounds stupid.

We've been through quite a few humps during this process and this is just one more on the way to a new way to do things in Washington.
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shugah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. yeah, i've met many who don't get the "feet of clay" reference
Edited on Sun Jun-22-08 10:40 PM by shugah
and it makes me feel kind of sad that everyone didn't get the same quality public school education that i did.

edit: add that my education if from public school
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. "Feet of Clay" refers to flaws in a great person...
I know that it is biblical in its original context, but has appeared in many historical books and novels over time.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
15. After years of paralyzing frustration, DUers are desperate...
Edited on Sun Jun-22-08 10:36 PM by hlthe2b
for a "savior." And, not just any savior will do. While there may be many atheists/agnostics among us, there seems to be a unified view that we need a political savior on the "purity/perfection" scale of a "deity." I'm not saying this in a critical vein, as I can absolutely understand this feeling.

I hope that with some successes in hand, we will mature in our views and move past it. Until then, I can appreciate the fear that we might be pinning all our hopes in one individual and that we may be doomed, no matter what, to some disappointment.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
36. I've considered retroactive-immunity disgusting....
...since Bush proposed it years ago.

Therefore, I was upset by Obama's statement which implied he may vote for the "FISA Amendments Act of 2008" in spite of his disagreeing with that aspect.

It isn't that I want to be upset by Nancy Pelosi or Steny Hoyer, etc.

It's that Pelosi and Hoyer betrayed the Fourth Amendent on Friday.

I hope that Obama doesn't do the same next week.

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RNdaSilva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
52. New here but saw the shift...
unbelievable.

Make a list of +'s and -'s, if the +'s outweigh the -'s than go with it.

Seeking perfection? Ain't gonna happen. Cannot please 100% of the populace nor 100% of each individual's personal expectations.

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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
55. Obama is the nominee, so I'm behind him all the way.
If I criticize him at all, it will be about tactics and strategies, not issues. I am comfortable with his judgment, and feel he will do the best he can to win the election while maintaining his core beliefs. He's not going to take every position I would have him take, but then, who would?
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katandmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
56. Speak for yourself. He's NEVER been my "savior." Only voting for him because he's the Democrat.
It is amusing in a perverse sort of way to contemplate the complete DU evisceration Hillary would have gotten over this though.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
60. "jimmy carter told us to turn down our thermostats"
And pay down our credit cards or better yet - get rid of them.

I can so relate to your post top to bottom. :D
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
62. It's always fair to criticize when people running for office fall short
Anyone who says otherwise is advocating the undermining of a republic.

It does come down weighing the pluses and minuses of their whole voting record and where the minuses occured.

If they voted no against a resolution making my birthday a national holiday, I may not like it, but I can live with it.

If they vote to give retroactive immunity to telecoms or to give DUH-bya some form of Congressional protection from investigations and prosecution then that's another issue entirely.

I recognize that we'll never get someone we agree with 100%
It all comes down to where the disagreements are and who he/she is running against.

Primaries are the place for standing your ground and making a statement.

The GE is for what is best for the people of this country.

In 08, like it or not, that's Obama.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
65. it's hard sometimes shugah.
everyone gets called names, because with such high traffic, being as inflammatory as possible will get more people to read your stuff.

I've had my share of scuffles on DU over the years, and lately I have sat back and tried, tried, tried to treat people as if they were standing in front of me. I've really tried to go out of my way to PM people I have otherwise always liked on this board and try to find some common ground. People are very, very different in tone in PMs; they back off, regret the fire, and talk.

This is youtube generation, we all want our public spectacle and we are all entertainers, of all stripes. We are demons, we are prophets, we are victims, we are saviors, we are warriors, we are brokers. Sometimes we are many things in one day.

At the end of the day, it's interesting to go through DU threads and pick up the dominant themes. One thing I have noticed is that people will jump aggressively on a thread if they feel they have back-up. Echo chamber threads tend to stay that way until someone drops a bomb, but that's more rare since I'm fairly sure all of us desire at least a little bit to be liked by others.

So what does this mean for politics? Well, I think it's pretty indicative of how political movements gain support. We need blind faith in a campaign as much as we need searing criticism. In the end, just getting the word out is all that really matters.

People ask all the time why McCain doesn't get more heat around here. I always puzzled at that question since it's seemed obvious to me: we all know and agree that he is such a lame ass, business as usual republican hack. There's nothing much to be gained by dissecting him. Smear campaigns are largely considered unfair game to us, so we don't spend much time perpetuating untruths about him; besides he's vile enough on his own. Now Obama, now THERE is an interesting personality. He is as fun to talk about as a Hollywood celebrity for many. Part of the psychology, I think, is that many people are turned off by blind faith in any politician and attempt to point out his flaws to somehow humanize him. This of course riles those who think he is above reproach, and also the criticism can go unfairly and make it seem we only want to pick on him.

Of COURSE there are other people responsible for how things go down, but Obama has inspired so much belief in people that it is only logical that he is looked upon as the one who must answer to all.

The best thing to do, I have found, is find a balance between standing up to what one perceives as unfairness and allowing a certain amount to go under the radar for the sake of peace. I'm trying HARD to be a nicer person, however I am aggressive by nature as are many here, and have the instinct to attack without prioritizing communication above being "correct" all the time.

I. AM. TRYING.

:hug:
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
68. Hurry everybody, get in a circle and hold hands

we can sing kumbaya or just 'lalala' real loud and drown out REALITY.

Some people just hate to admit that they've been made a fool.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 01:33 PM
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71. Locking
Group attack on DUers in general.

mvd
DU Moderator
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