Folks we need to have a petition to remove Lynn Samuels from Sirius left morning time slot

[cascadiance]

Sirius Left is for many of us the only way we can get progressive talk any more (with KLSD shut down here in San Diego, etc.).

I've never been happy that they only carry Thom Hartmann's first hour at 9:00 AM PST, and have the last two hours preempted with Lynn Samuels show.

I've never liked her show that much at all anyway, but when this election year has gone on she's been a complete shill for Hillary Clinton. I dealt with that, as each talk show host has shown favoritism, and I let that go.

But now that the primary is over, she today when I tuned in (before turning to a music channel when I was sick of it), said that she would probably vote for Ron Paul instead (not even someone like Cynthia McKinney or Ralph Nader), and even said in so many other words to another caller that she hates Obama! If she's advocating that people not vote in the general election for Obama or even vote for a Republican like Ron Paul, she doesn't even belong on Sirius Left in my book, much less preempting the last two hours of Thom Hartmann's show.

I think I'm going to start looking into making a petition to send to Sirius to either a) remove her altogether from Sirius Left, or b) push her to the night time later and air Thom Hartman's last two hours live instead of late at night. She has shown she doesn't deserve to be on progressive talk radio in my book!

Rec if you agree with me here.

Here's a sample of her diatribes!

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/lynn-samuels-on-why-she-thinks-barack-obama-is-a-prick/2241853260

[Iggo]

1. Change the channel....(n/t)

[cascadiance]

3. Hey I subscribe to Sirius to get progressive talk, not to HAVE to avoid it...

... because it doesn't deliver the content that is appropriate to what its labeled as providing!

Before Air America forced itself off of Sirius with their stupid "XM exclusive" deal, there was another option (channel) on Sirius. Now there isn't.

[chelsea0011]

16. I've written to Sirius many times about the lack of progressive

talk against the many stations the right get on Sirius. They have responded that they have no agenda to give us more of the RW crap that every city and town across the country has to put up with. But I am with you abouthaving no other options to turn to.

[madaboutharry]

5. She takes up good real estate on Sirius Left

She has called Obama the most hateful names in the book. She goes off about him and sounds utterly pathological. I find her an embarrassment. She also has a filthy mouth and uses four letter words gratuitously.

[MadBadger]

6. She's on Sirius Left and yet that hour has a lot of Obama hate

So from 1-3, there is nothing but Obama hate on sirius. Kick her ass off.

[cascadiance]

10. Mark Thompson later in the afternoon after Ed Schultz is pretty good...

on his "Make it Plain" show. He's an African American himself, and I'm liking his show more and more each time I hear it. He's been pretty much in the Obama camp for the most part, but he's not a serious "Hillary hater", like Samuelson is an "Obama hater".

I'm also very disappointed in Alex Bennett in the mornings too. It is usually too early for me to listen to, but he's a far cry from the entertaining guy I used to hear on Live 105 in the Bay Area the previous decades, when he rants about Obama too. I think between he and Thom Hartmann (if they were to give Hartmann her hours as they should and EASILY could do), it would provide good balance in the mornings. Then she could provide balance in the evenings with Mike Malloy, though personally I'd like to see them drop her altogether and give those hours to Stephanie Miller the way she's totally working against the Democratic Party now anyway and in her own weird, ugly, and selfish world now.

If they are just putting her on because she is a "Sirius exclusive" and can cuss her hearts content because she's not on the air, that isn't good enough a set of reasons to have her on this channel.

[MadBadger]

13. Ed Schultz is fantastic after her, but Mark Thompson kind of bores me.

Bennett isnt in the Obama camp, but hes not a total....well, insert any word you want for the old windbag.

[madaboutharry]

15. I really like Mark Thompson.

I learn a lot from him and his show. I also respect his intellect.

[cbayer]

2. Wow, that tape was really harsh.

I've never heard her before, but I am really put off by that bit.

On the other hand, I just got Sirius and had not yet found this station. So, my thanks to you for pointing it out to me!

[chitty]

4. She Is Just Brutal............

Fucking brutal!

I can't believe someone even gave her a job as a radio personality.

[MadBadger]

7. I hate her. Today she was talking up Larry Sinclair.

[GreenTea]

8. Removing Thom Hartmann's two hours for Samuels bullshit indeed SUCKS!

I'll sign!

[benddem]

9. Fortunately

I don't have Sirius anymore...but the lady's voice drove me up the wall.

[zulchzulu]

11. She sure has a face for radio... and a hideous voice at that...

What an excellent voice to scare the shit out of my dog.

[LaPera]

12. I'm with you....I do believe Sirius trys to keep as weak a "Left" lineup as possible....

Samuels has to go....Although, Sirius does offer Mike Malloy's show for the three full hours live on Sirius Left.

[Nedsdag]

14. It's too bad she's gone off the deep end.

I used to like her, but her diatribes against Obama are vomit inducing.

Sadly, in the 1990s, she used to rail against the Clintons for not being liberal and she would say the worst things about Hillary.

[LisaM]

17. I don't know her show and can't comment on it

but if Hillary had gotten the nomination instead of Obama, I can bet you that Randi Rhodes would be completely off the deep end and totally enraged at this point. And she'd probably be encouraging people not to vote for Hillary. I point this out because it sounds as if Lynn Samuels probably sounds to listeners the way Randi sounded to me before I had to stop listening to her. I absolutely cannot picture Randi being able to switch over to Hillary after some of the things she said.

[cascadiance]

I think Randi speaks on a lot more topics than Lynn does though...

Randi I think looks more at the big picture, and even though she'd probably hate saying she'd vote for Hillary, she'd probably say do that instead of voting for McCain. She might say (and I think rightly in this case) that there was a conspiracy to oust Obama from the agreed upon rules of using the delegate count to determine the winner of the nomination, but she'd still advise voters to think strategically. Lynn is nothing but a self-absorbed whiner. If she's not whining about Obama, it is about stuff she bought at Macy's. She's pretty shallow if you ask me! And she claimed that the nomination was stolen from Hillary this morning too. Pretty deluded as well!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

29. Randi always said she would vote for Hillary if she was the nominee

And encouraged her listeners to do the same. I heard her do it many, many times.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. Isn't it amazing what you learn when you actually LISTEN to her

instead of buying into the bullshit a few bitter Hillary supporters post on the internet? LOL

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. That is complete bullshit

Randy has always supported the Democratic candidate. If you listened to her, you would know that. :crazy:

[LisaM]

32. I DID listen to her for many years.

I DO know that Randi went completely off the deep end about Hillary. And I don't see how she could switch gears to suddenly supporting her after some of the things she said.

I've met her in person, (RR) and believe me, the person I met a couple of summers ago was not the same person I was hearing on the radio a couple of months ago.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. And you never heard her say (many many times)

that she was supporting the Democratic nominee, regardless of who it was?

Like I said - BULLSHIT.

[LisaM]

34. Well, but the point is, she never really had to go there, did she?

So who knows? You never heard Randi change her mind? I really don't see how her support for Hillary could have been more than damning with faint praise at best after some of the things she said. I still can't listen to her. My main point was to the OP, just stating that as hard as it was for her to listen to Lynn Samuels hate on Obama, it's been pretty difficult to listen to someone like Randi Rhodes in the past few months if you were supporting Hillary. I didn't petition anyone to take Randi off the air, though. Just hit the off button.

[cascadiance]

35. Someone who's supporting Ron Paul for president DOES NOT belong on Sirius Left!

If it is a progressive talk channel, they can do FAR better than that. And in fact she takes up Thom Hartman's last two hours with her slot, who is about the best in the business when it comes to progressive talk. It isn't a contract issue I presume if they have him the first hour. We listeners shouldn't have to put up with this NON-progressive talk CRAP on the radio when there's a perfectly better option that should be able to immediately be put in to replace the crap with.

I've been willing to let it slide as long as she saw fit to realize that she needed to come around to supporting the Democratic nominee so that she could support women's interests in not blowing the Supreme Court for their lifetimes by in effect pushing to have McCain elected instead of Obama. Is that what you want? And by the way, I do say that as a man, not a woman. I just hold certain woman in high regard as my avatars when they actually try to DO something for us, not just chant about how they are the only good choice for president without any details to back up that rationalization.

In my book, advocating for Ron Paul, and still ranting against Obama instead of McCain crosses the line. We shouldn't be subjected to the torture of having to listen to her. And I can't think of how any reasonable progressive listener, supportive of Hillary or Obama would feel the same way. Heck, if she were to say she was supporting Nader or Cynthia McKinney, then even if I thought it wasn't good for defeating McCain, I might at least be able to respect her voting on principle. But advocating voting for Republicans or staying home is in my book a reason for her to be OFFED from that channel.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. So while you weren't listening

she talked about voting for the Democratic nominee. In other words, you are wrong.

[MattP]

18. Horrible Voice

That voice is like nails on a chalkboard to me, I don't like what she says either.

[Cheap_Trick]

19. That nasal, Jerry Lewis by way of the Bronx voice

annoys the fuck out of me. I always turn it to The Big 80's when she's on. An utterly contemptible person.

[cascadiance]

22. Hah, I switch to First Wave myself... almost same difference!

:)

[Symarip]

46. I'd listen to First Wave more

If it wasn't a Depeche Mode/Smiths love fest. Two of the worst bands the 80s have to offer!

(Yes, I know I'm probably the only one with this opinion :) )

[cascadiance]

49. I guess I'm just more in to alternative rock than some of the other pop 80 stuff then...

... but to each his/her own.

[Cheap_Trick]

59. I've been know to listen to First Wave myself

from time to time, along with Hair Nation:headbang:

[CreekDog]

20. Stephanie Miller

:loveya:

even if it's not live, it's still terrific.

last week's impression of Sigfried and Roy arguing and fighting after the story that one of them had been with women...OMG...:rofl:

[Misskittycat]

21. In North County, particularly, I can get AAR from Santa Barbara

on my car radio during the daytime. It's just next to where KLSD used to be. This station is at AM 1340.They have quite a signal. On really clear days, I can get it as far south as I-8.

[myrna minx]

23. Wow. People pay money to listen to that garbage?

[cascadiance]

25. I'd drop Sirius like a bad habit if they only had "left" talkers like her!

I still get folks like Hartmann and Malloy, and have had my car with a Sirius ready radio since the days of having two channels before the XM exclusive thing. That's one big reason why I still take Sirius now. I've had quite a mixed bag here trying to get other radio channels as noted here from Santa Barbara, etc.

Even KGO is lame now without Bernie Ward. When they have hosts like Christine Craft on instead (who's almost as bad as Lynne Samuels now), it isn't fun listening too either.

[myrna minx]

26. At least there are people worth listening to on the channel.

That Lynne Samuels completely drained her spleen in that wretched clip. Wow.

[madaboutharry]

36. Sirius has some other channels that are really good.

There is The Bridge, which exclusively plays Bruce Springsteen. There is also SiriusOutQ which is a gay station. There are some pretty good shows there as well.

[AldebTX]

24. Its Not Just Her

Alex Bennet has been almost as bad. I do exercise my right to change the channel. I love Stephanie Miller and they have cut her down to an hour a day.

If you listen for any period of time Both Lynn and Alex characterize themselves as Independents and spurn the liberal label.

[DangerousRhythm]

42. Alex Bennett calls himself a leftist and says he's further left than anyone running...

...which is why he's not satisfied with Obama. I always enjoy his show, even though I am an Obama supporter.

Regarding the original post, Lynn Samuels was completely for Hillary and well, I won't try to defend her Obama hate, but I will defend her right to say as she pleases. I am a Sirius subscriber and I'm not personally in favor of a petition to get rid of her. There are a hundred other channels I can listen to when she's on, if I choose to. I'm not locked into listening to that channel by any means. I actually like her, despite my differences with her. I've listened to her since the late 80s or perhaps very early 90s on local NYC talk radio (WABC) before she lost that gig... perhaps I am just biased towards her but I just don't think she deserves to be out of a job. If anything, I think she's very colorful and interesting to listen to precisely because she doesn't take calls on one topic for ages and beat it to death like most other regular radio personalities do. She talks about anything and everything under the sun, and to me, that makes for good radio... even if I disagree strongly with some positions she takes, she's hardly ever boring to me.

Of course, your mileage may vary. :)

At any rate, Sirius doesn't have many in-house shows for their Left channel and taking two of the three off in favor of syndicated stuff you can listen to on regular radio just seems to miss the point of having uncensored, unfiltered radio.

[cascadiance]

47. Before I didn't care for her just out of personal taste...

Her "humor" just didn't work for me. All of her rants about how this or that hair product she bought from Macy's not working for her, or some other self-absorbed experience like that instead of the vast array of issues that Thom Hartmann could be filling my head with in the same time slot, I really felt it was unfair of Sirius to REMOVE him (and yes, they used to have Thom Hartmann on for three hours then before there was an Air America network) to make room for her then. Now if she was in another time slot that wasn't during my commute timeframe here and didn't overlap Hartmann then I might think differently. That being said, in the past I'd just switch channels to something else (Air America when it was available, etc.).

Even now as someone who renewed my subscription when they killed KLSD here, for a while I just wrote that time off and listened to other stations. But now, when I hear her champion right wingers and champion against our presidential nominee with hate speech, and not really in my judgement championing what progressive listeners would want to listen to, I feel she's gone over the line.

Perhaps she should be on another talk channel that isn't political, but not Sirius Left. With only one left channel, we DESERVE better, and could EASILY get that with them just offering full Thom Hartmann there without them having to ink anyone else to a new contract.

[cascadiance]

48. delete (duplicate post)

Hmm... didn't think I double submitted this post, but something like that must have happened.

[krkaufman]

54. The poster wasn't saying she should be taken off the air, only that she could be ...

... shifted to the night slot where they're currently airing Hartmann's 2nd and 3rd hours; and very few people in this country can hear Hartmann or any other AAR or left talk hosts since so few stations carry them. National "Left" talk slots are rare.

[DangerousRhythm]

57. Read the OP again...

"I think I'm going to start looking into making a petition to send to Sirius to either a) remove her altogether from Sirius Left, or b) push her to the night time later and air Thom Hartman's last two hours live instead of late at night."

That first option is what I was talking about and OP did indeed say she should be taken off the air as seen in the bold text above. If she were merely moved to nights after Mike Malloy I wouldn't really mind, but I just don't feel she should lose her job because she doesn't like our candidate. If Sirius Left were required to have 100% pro-Obama programming with no room for dissenting voices, it would be no better than my local crap talk radio station filled with all the same interchangeable shows and opinions, praising and licking the boots of our Chimp in Chief. That makes for boring radio in my opinion, and one can very much be politically left without holding the same views and supporting all the same politicians, right on up to the future President. Like Alex Bennett says, the station is not named Sirius Democrat and I would suggest it also isn't called Sirius Obama. On topic, Lynn just said, "I didn't ever sign a contract that said I had to like Barack Obama." Hell, I'd love if the two of them would ease up on Obama, but it's just not happening anytime soon. Perhaps they will mellow with time? Lynn was totally for Hillary, by the way, and was not really going to vote for Ron Paul, though she seemingly admired some of his stances. Lately she's talked about staying home and not voting in November, just FYI.

Really though, the best way not to hear a show is to tune out if you don't like it. They do keep track of how many listeners each show has, I'm fairly certain. If her ratings tank because she's been turning people off with her ranting, Sirius will undoubtedly take notice. As far as Lynn's show, it's a matter of personal taste (or lack thereof, perhaps to some) but despite the very boisterous Obama hate, I still like her, nuttiness and all, even if she does sometimes talk about reality shows and other random subjects that occasionally bore the OP or me. That's the charm of her show for me, and I actually can't stand reality TV so I just tune out when she starts going on about American Idol or whatever. Right now she's ragging on Dick Cheney being kicked out of kindergarten, so it's not all bad. :D

I download Thom Hartmann from iTunes for free and listen to him at my leisure on my iPod because I find his show fascinating and informative. There's room for both shows in my life, and if I feel there's no room at the time or if I'm not interested in the subject, I just choose not to listen.

:shrug:

[cascadiance]

58. Hey Sirius has removed other "non-left" content off of Sirius Left earlier...

This wouldn't be the first time it's happened. When a talk show host says they "hate the Democratic Candidate", recommends a NON progressive candidate in Ron Paul (He's LIBERTARIAN, NOT PROGRESSIVE!) and not even someone that might be a progressive candidate like Ralph Nader or Cynthia McKinney, who I would accept as a "different" PROGRESSIVE opinion, then I question why that person is on Sirius Left, when they could EASILY change the program to have someone who IS progressive on. Now if she were still providing some decent liberal perspective somehow that I could respect (I don't expect her to suddenly "love" Obama either), then I might say just move her to an hour that would still more optimize the availability of progressive talk to most listeners looking for it, even if they put her on late at night. If she doesn't like it, then tough. Then perhaps offer her a daytime slot on another non-left talk channel on Sirius and if she has a good set of fans, they'll follow her there.

I WOULD tune out if there was another PROGRESSIVE option. I feel that if I'm paying for a service and it has a progressive talk channel, then I should be able to get progressive talk, especially during prime time hours like those that Thom Hartmann's show is on!

I do like CONSTRUCTIVE criticism of Obama. I by no means feel he's a perfect candidate, and deserves to be examined. But not just HATE radio against him that's not constructive, especially when it is supposed to be a left-oriented talk show. I was just at a speech by Jeremy Scahill the other night and APPRECIATED his criticism of Obama in that instance. But it was damn CONSTRUCTIVE, and it wasn't meant to demean him, just telling us how to push him to do things more that we want. THAT is the kind of critique I expect of talk left radio that makes it worth my while to listen to.

If Lynn Samuels is "fun" for some others to listen to for her non-political content, then fine, put her on a non-political channel, and then you guys will have a better choice too. But for us that want PROGRESSIVE betwen 10 AM and noon PST, we are being CHEATED now by their lineup! I don't want to be forced to listen to music when I'm driving then JUST because there is NO progressive talk available then, especially when I'm paying for that choice!

[krkaufman]

64. I sit corrected. The OPer was offering both options.

And I would agree with your comments regarding Samuels so long as she's not promoting John McCain or any other Right-of-Center alternative to Obama in this election. If she's out there promoting Nader or some Green candidate as a Left-of-Center alternative to Obama then she still warrants airtime on a "Left-of-Center" channel, but not if she's promoting and talking about voting for McCain.

[LeftyMom]

27. It's a paid service. If you don't like it, cancel and tell them why.

One "this is why I'm no longer a customer, and what you can do to bring me back" letter means a lot more than any amount of complaining from people who keep paying for service.

[cascadiance]

28. Right now, tuning into First Wave in the mornings with her...

... and being satisfied the other parts of the day are less of a problem than to have to buy a new radio and antenna set up in my car to get XM (especially since I'm considering moving to a place with decent local talk radio over the air anyway now).

That is why I think its worth us showing our displeasure. I will tell them that I will drop them like a bad habit if I move to a new area with better local radio options, and I might be inclined to keep them if they dropped her like a bad habit instead.

[krkaufman]

55. Or write them and suggest other programming that would keep you as a customer.

And use your capitalistic right to petition them for change, showing them the breadth of like opinion.

[ms liberty]

38. She is the most unlistenable radio talk show host I've ever heard...

I hate her. I want to rip my own ears off, just hearing her voice. I agree with you one thousand brazillion percent.

[Th1onein]

39. She's NOT a progressive!

Even BEFORE the primaries, Lynn Samuels was talking right wing bullshit. I have been sick of her for a long time.

She's been vociferously anti-Obama throughout the primaries, and she's not going to stop now that it's time for the general election.

I'll sign any petition anyone comes up with, to have her replaced. Count me in.

[kdpeters]

40. Ugh! People actually listen to her? Voluntarily? That whiiiine and that thinly veiled racism.

I don't have Sirius or XM, so I can't call and threaten to unsubscribe, but I would if I did. I had been thinking about it just recently. As you say, if I were to shell out the subscription fee for radio I currently hear for free, you can bet the decision would be made primarily for that reason to get liberal discussion on the radio. That's the one thing I'd like to hear but can't and I'm almost -- but not there yet -- willing to pay for it. With that racist, whiney, old gasbag taking up two whole hours in the morning, it's definitely not worth considering Sirius now that I know about her. I think I'll send them a little note and let them know that. Who does XM carry?

[MrSlayer]

41. Good luck with that. The Sirius Right channel is called "The Patriot".

Plus they have Fox Talk and ABC Talk. Sirius "Left" goes up against three channels of Right Wing Propaganda, where do you think they'll put your letter?

[barack the house]

43. You have an abundance for choices via the net. Stream via novamradio.com ...

Or free podcasts via itunes

search
white rose guy james
white rose kincaid
white rose thom hartmann

Just get an audio cable and play on the hi fi via the mic.

[cascadiance]

50. I was paying for not having too much hassle to listen to this in my car...

I've been doing the podcast stuff for a while too and have had problems with the FM transmitter, and then Thom Hartmann pulled back on his free podcasts too. A lot of the other stuff is paid for stuff too on the web. If I was going to pay for it, I'd like to just have it "work" in my car. As a paid subscriber, I feel that I should be able to tell them as a customer that they aren't providing what most customers really like, especially as they had to a merger with XM too (which I wonder what will look like eventually when they also merge content too). Would like to think they get rid of the chaff like Lynn Samuels rather than someone else that would be a bigger loss.

[Raineyb]

62. Have you tried the Green 960 podcast?

It's free and you get all three hours every day.

I podcast most talk because I can't get access to a radio at work and I work evenings and there's not much to listen to at night on the way home. I'm still getting Thom daily from the Green 960 stream.

Regards

[leftupnorth]

44. Check out Indie talk (Channel 110) at 2pm. Pete's Big Mouth is a great show!

Lynn Samuels is a hate filled person. I feel sorry for her.

She obviously has a tortured soul. And she deserves to lose her show.

Thom Hartmann is on all three hours starting at midnight. I know it's not live, but if you have a Stiletto or S50 you can record it. That's what I do, then I listen to it during Lynn Samuels' show.

[cascadiance]

51. Already listen to Hartmann at the evenings at times...

And having Lynn Samuels on at that same time would probably have me more disciplined about leaving work earlier so that I could listen to Malloy instead all of the time.

[LTR]

52. Here's an easier way

Get an mp3 player and download the podcasts:

Hartmann and others can be found here:

http://www.green960.com/pages/podcasts.html
http://www.620kpoj.com/cc-common/podcast.html

I have other podcast links on my site:

http://ltradio.blogspot.com/

Look on the right side of the page.

[Symarip]

45. Psst. It's not a morning show over here on the right (read: wrong) coast

But I whole heartedly agree; the lady is off her rocker. She believes that the government puts spy chips in house flies.

Yes. You read that correctly. Spy chips. In house flies. Done by the government.

I'm from San Diego, so I feel your pain about KLSD. I went to the Randi Rhodes event at the Belly Up and the line was around the block. Doesn't make any sense that the fastest growing radio station in San Diego talk history went under, does it?

Anyhow, between Alex Bennet and Lynn Samuels, I don't listen to Talk Left until Make It Plain comes on. Mark Thompson is really a champion of cross culture/political thinking. His show is the best original programming Talk Left has to offer (half of the shows are syndicates like Ed Schultz and the likes). I can offer you some advice though, at 2 pm EST, Pete's Big Mouth on Indy Talk is pretty badass. The guy is not necessarily a leftist but he's definitely a liberal socially advocating for gay rights and gun laws.

Wouldn't it be nice if Stacy Taylor got Lynn's spot on Talk Left? The guy could blow her out of the water. Just a thought.

[krkaufman]

53. wow, what a grating voice. even without the context of what she's saying ...

... her voice and intonation make her difficult to listen to.

[Overseas]

56. They're dumb to only air one hour of the brilliant Thom Hartmann.

[jillan]

60. Is she still on?

I used to have Sirius and couldn't stand to listen to her back then....and that was long before the primaries.

Thom Hartmann is the best and should take over her spot.

[jillan]

61. oopsy dupesy.

[bunkerbuster1]

63. Wow, I'm sorry to hear that.

Time was when she was literally the only sane voice amongst the Nazis on New York AM radio.

I haven't heard her in ages, though.

[latebloomer]

66. Yep, I used to enjoy her AM show

and even before that, she had a weekly show on Pacifica's WBAI. You can't get much "lefter" than that. I remember she was working in a laundromat to make ends meet.

She can be very funny, and has weird interesting takes on things.

Like you, however, I haven't heard her since she was fired from WABC in the early 90s (?)

[rufus dog]

65. I agree, Randi Rhodes can come across as annoying

even though I agree with her a majority of the time. Lynn is UNFUCKINGBEARABLE, she calls Obama an empty suit, exposes the worst of the worst of a NY DEM. As for Hartman, it is ridiculous that people have to listen to Lynn rather than Tom.