I support Hillary Clinton for Vice President.

[MethuenProgressive]

If Obama wants to unite the Party, he must convince her to become his running mate.

[Diamonique]

1. If Obama wants to win, he'll choose someone else. n/t

An African American *and* a woman is just too much "newness" for this country to deal with at one time. He needs an older white man.

[MethuenProgressive]

7. "He needs an older white man." This might be the right time time to end that thinking.

Let's Make History.

[NYCGirl]

12. We already HAVE made History. Let's get elected. NT

[newmajority]

33. Let's Make the DLC History.

And if you notice what Obama has been doing since becoming the nominee, you will observe that is exactly what he is doing. And adding the DLC's franchise players to the ticket would be the complete opposite of that.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

68. Just say NO to the Nightmare Ticket. Here's some reasons why:

Why No Nightmare Ticket? Let's Count The Reasons

Saturday, June 7, 2008 The Personal IS the Political

Now that the primary is finally over, the focus has turned to who Obama will pick to be his vice president. And, despite all logic to the contrary, people, mostly pundits and Hillary's surrogates, keep raising the prospect of an Obama-Hillary ticket, ad nauseam. And I have to ask, are you people complete idiots?? The pundits no doubt raise the question to get ratings, because they don't want the primary to end, because it makes them money. Do they know better? Yes, I think most of them do. And I think most in the Democratic Party know that it is a horrible idea, yet Hillary's surrogates are pushing it anyway.

...But first, why people say the nightmare ticket should be. There are generally two broad reasons why people say Obama should choose Hillary as a running mate. First, because Obama supposedly needs Hillary to bring in Hillary’s supporters, who might otherwise be bitter and sit out. Second, that Hillary has some sort of entitlement to the VP spot. Let’s dispense with the first right now: Obama most certainly does NOT need Hillary to bring in any votes. I heard that hack Pat Buchanan (why is he still allowed on TV?) say that Obama will need Hillary to get her 17 million voters. NO, her supporters are still Democrats, and the vast vast vast majority of them are NOT controlled by her. She does not speak for them. As Hillary supporter Hilary Rosen declared after watching Hillary’s non-concession speech,

She is waiting to figure out how she would "use" her 18 million voters.

But not my vote. I will enthusiastically support Barack Obama's campaign. Because I am not a bargaining chip. I am a Democrat.

...Reasons That Automatically Disqualify Hillary as VP. Each of these reasons by itself is reason enough to disqualify Hillary from being VP. You only need one, but there are a lot more than one

1.1: The Lieberman Threshold ...

1.2: The Authorization of the Iraq War ...

1.3: Change Vs Status Quo ...

.4: Over His Dead Body ...

Major Reasons Hillary Shouldn’t Be VP

2.1: The Kitchen Sink ...

2.2: The Michigan-Florida Fiasco ...

2.3: Race-Baiting ...

2.4: Backseat Sabotage ...

2.5: Kyl-Lieberman & Iran ...

2.6: The Electoral Typhoid Mary ...

2.7: Let The Vetting Begin ...

Minor Reasons Hillary Shouldn’t Be VP

3.1: Excess Baggage...

3.2: Brings Nothing To The Table ...

3.3: Poor Management ...

3.4: Forced Ticket ...

...more at the link

[fadedrose]

83. I'm with you

[JoFerret]

94. He likes his male mentors

.

[Skittles]

72. OMG

[BeeBoppinLula]

77. you're kidding, right? he CAN NOT win without her. nt

[Zhade]

100. You wish. She won't be the VP.

NT!

[jgraz]

119. You're talking about bowling, right?

[SeaLyons]

2. I agree...a winning ticket for a landslide Nov.

He needs her and she has so much to offer him and add to his administration.

[Doityourself]

If you think she'd make a great VP...do you think

Hill & Bill should be subject to the same vigorous vetting process as any other potential VP candidate. If that requires Bill releasing his donor list and other records are you on board?

What say you

[Doityourself]

52. dupe

[ccharles000]

3. She would be a great VP.

[PBS Poll-435]

4. I agree. And I think he will do it.

Bill hasn't interfered in her Senate career, why are some people so concerned that he is going to live on Obama's desk?

In all honesty, he probably won't even move to DC.

[Hola]

41. That's not true

Bill has interfered in her Senate career. Hillary, free of Bill, would make an excellent VP. We just have to find something else for Bill to do.

[MyNameGoesHere]

42. That is true. See i stated a fact just like you didn't. n/t

[laugle]

74. Yeah, like maybe getting

a peace treaty between Israel and the Palestinians. He should continue the talks, he almost did it before he left office. If anyone could do it, he could. He has already said the time is right. Besides, he wants to win the nobel peace prize, so he's highly motivated............

[Doityourself]

51. Yes he has...don't be delusional.

[SeaLyons]

5. K&R

Let's really make history...

[WA98296]

6. I don't, so I guess my vote cancels out yours.

[PBS Poll-435]

9. Good thing this isn't something that is "voted" on.

Except Obama himself.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

8. I'm not opposed to her as vice president. I am opposed to the "he better or else" crap.

There are a lot of good democrats in the VP pool.

[mkultra]

10. after much thought on this i have come to a conclusion

Although i hate the way she ran her campaign and although i have fears that bill wont keep his yap shut i believe i could stomach her as a vp selection.


If this is what it takes to insure that the country moves down the progressive track, its the right move.
Hillary represents the ideas of many democrats. Although she carries alot of baggage, it is certainly no more than old Dick Cheney so it shouldn't be a big deal.


I say we hold hands and jump into the mouth of the volcano together.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bunnies]

13. And Bill is suddenly going to release his financials?

I dont see that happening. The RNC is already using her attacks on Obama in commercials. I think she's done enough.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[goldcanyonaz]

15. I really do not feel that she wants it

[democrattotheend]

16. He certainly doesn't need to CONVINCE her

He may decide he needs to offer it to her, but if she decides not to take it, that's her decision. I talked to one of the Clinton supporters at the RBC meeting last week, and she said that she might write Hillary in unless she is on the ticket, but that if Obama offered it and she turned it down she'd have an easier time voting for Obama.

[TooRaLoo]

18. I like your button!

I need one that says "Hard-working white woman."

[democrattotheend]

25. Will do

I'll edit the design and send you a link.

[TooRaLoo]

63. You're awesome!!

I didn't mean for you to do that yourself, but that's kind of you. Thank you!

[Junkdrawer]

17. Last call to lose in November...Last call.....

Come on, guys. Rove worked SO hard on gathering the Hillary slime.

You don't want to see all that go to waste, do you?

[JackORoses]

19. Sorry, your pal Bill Richardson already beat her to it

That must really burn you up, huh?

[Buzz Clik]

20. He'll also have to convince his ardent supporters that it's a good idea.

Then, he can try to explain to the various groups of moderates why he chose her.

I'm hoping for someone else.

[MethuenProgressive]

37. They 'get over it' and 'fall in line' like 'True Democrats'...

To quote DU's fading GD-P.

[rodeodance]

49. you captured the meme right on

[democracy1st]

21. another dumb ass post

[MethuenProgressive]

39. Thanks for accurately labeling your post.

[Radio_Lady]

22. K & R.

[lojasmo]

23. You are entitled to your opinion

But you are wrong about uniting the party. Democrats will be united behind Obama.

[AtomicKitten]

24. Obama needs her brand of ugly politics like he needs a scorching case of gonorrhea.

Prepare to be disappointed.

[Kahuna]

56. LOL! Oh dear. I couldn't have said it better myself. Ideally,

it would be nice if he could do it. But Billary hsa done much to much kkkrap to ever take them seriously again.

[JoFerret]

92. And DU and the democrats need your version of it

likewise.

[Lord Helmet]

118. ah quit yer bitchin

[musicblind]

26. Good post. I support Hillary for VP too. But I will say that Obama will not need to "convince" her

she seems willing enough if Obama decides that is what he prefers.

[Stephanie]

27. How's that working out for you?

You can't even get a quorum on DU.

[JoFerret]

93. DU is not very typical

or representative of the democratic party. For better and/ or worse.
Any candidate who used DU opinion as a main influence would not be very successful.

[FlyingSquirrel]

28. You seriously need to get over yourself. n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

29. I'm sure she is on Obama's short list

And I'm sure that he will sit down with his strategists and pollsters and discuss what she brings to the table. If she is his best shot to win, he will pick her.

[CakeGrrl]

34. I think he's planning further than merely his "best shot to win"

That's one consideration, but he's said he wants someone in tune with the way he wants to govern. I suspect that's a very subtle way of saying she won't be a good fit in other important ways beyond the election.

[ClassWarrior]

30. If "the Party" is the Party, they'll vote for the nominee and his choice for running mate.

Otherwise they're Rape-Publicans trying to manipulate a cult of personality.

NGU.

[LTR]

31. I support keeping Hillary as far away from the ticket as possible

Obama needs to set himself apart from the past, and the Clintons would merely be a very heavy anchor weighing him down. She would be a distraction.

At this point, Hillary needs Obama more than he needs her.

[MethuenProgressive]

35. "Obama needs to set himself apart from the past," Kennedy? Kerry? Edwards? Dean?

He's embracing the Party's Past.

[LTR]

45. Are they being considered for VP?

The closest was Edwards, and he took himself out of the running.

And I wouldn't consider the current head of the DNC to be 'the past.'

And if you have a problem with those people, you obviously have a problem with Hillary.

[totodeinhere]

32. It's Obama's choice, not yours.

He gets to choose whomever he wants, Clinton or someone else.

[MethuenProgressive]

36. Holy Obvious, Batman!

[Colobo]

38. He must? He can do whatever he wants. True Democrats will side with him anyway.

[LaurenG]

40. I'll take whomever he picks. If it's Senator Clinton so be it.

I don't care anymore who the VP is as long as it's not Lieberman or someone like him.

Senator Clinton could bring a lot of good things if he chooses her. Since I don't mind I hope you get what is important to you now.

[Inuca]

43. CONVINCE her? Funny! n/t

[Strathos]

44. COMPLETELY AGREE

They would be unbeatable.

[MethuenProgressive]

58. Thanks, Strathos

[yourguide]

46. Stop with the nonsense.

I am tired of everything revolving around HRC. She created and perpetuated the division. It is up to her to bring her supporters back to reality.

[Moochy]

47. He must Vett her and her husband's shady finances

Does MeutrollenProgressive actually think that she and her husband should be treated specially and not be subject to this vetting process? Does this partially reformed OP actually think that either Bill or Hillary will subject the Clinton Library Donor lists to the light of public scrutiny?

[rodeodance]

48. She would make a great VP

[Doityourself]

50. Are you for Bill & Hill being completely vetted by releasing his donors list and other records? If

you were truly serious about it..then you and they'd agree to go through the same process as any other potential VP candidate.

What say you?

[guruoo]

53. Love to have seen that, but I believe at this point it would be

a lousy idea. As a Hillary supporter, I would like to explain my reasoning,
but that in itself would be divisive. Put it this way, IMO, the Obama campaign is
about shunning demons of the past(both real, and imagined) and getting some fresh blood
in government, and at this point in time I believe it would be best to stick to that theme.

As Hillary might say, 'we have too much to lose' to do otherwise.

[sellitman]

54. He needs a VP with real experience.

Hillary being married to Bill isn't enough. Richardson has White House experience and isnt a Senator. He would bring in the Hispanic vote and unite the party more than Hillary would. She has been divisive and needs to go back to work for the people of New York. She would also bring out the Fundy voters in droves.

Pass.

[MethuenProgressive]

55. She could take him around and introduce him to the world leaders she's met.

"Richardson has White House experience"
As a guest at dinner?

[sellitman]

59. He was Bill's Sec. Of Energy.

Plus he was U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations. I think being Sec of Energy is a White House job isn't it?

[MethuenProgressive]

61. Unless they moved the DOE from Germantown MD, no it is not a Whitehouse job.

He did get to go to cabinet meetings and some dinners.

[Leftist Agitator]

57. I support Hilary Clinton for ambassador to Antarctica.

Let the fucking penguins deal with her. I've had enough of her asinine antics for ten lifetimes, and I know I'm not the only one.

"...he must convince her to become his running mate."

And snatch defeat from the jaws of victory? Um, no thanks. Hillary is to a Democratic ticket as salt is to a slug. Very Bad News.

[apocalypsehow]

65. Exactly right - about the only Party HRC would unite is the Republican Party. n/t.

[paulk]

60. "uniting the party" is the key phrase

it's not about uniting behind Obama, it's about bringing the two wings of the party together. Hillary as VP is the only thing that will do that.

[MethuenProgressive]

62. I agree. paulk

[apocalypsehow]

64. Hillary Clinton is not going to be the VP - and the Party's going to be united no matter how much

you relatively few, insignificant dead-enders snivel and moan.

[paulk]

66. with an attitude like that

I wouldn't bet on it.

[MethuenProgressive]

67. "you relatively few, insignificant dead-enders snivel and moan."

Why do hate Obama's message of unity so much?

[apocalypsehow]

69. Happy hour must have ended at midnight. n/t.

[Zavulon]

70. He might be able to unite the party if he makes that mistake, but

he won't be able to unite the country. Picking Hillary would be a monstrous mistake. She's too polarizing, not even remotely likable, and full of baggage.

Of all potential candidates, I can't think of a worse one.

Further, it would be a slap in the face to Obama supporters like myself who want real change and haven't forgotten the shit she flung during the campaign.

If Obama wants to piss me off, he should do what you suggest. Then, instead of getting my vote / money / volunteer time, he can settle for my vote and not a thing on top of it.

[greguganus]

71. Flamebait. You know we need a dream ticket and not a nightmare ticket with Hillary Krueger. n/t

[MadBadger]

73. And you also support Bill Richardson for VP I presume.

[cbc5g]

75. Worst idea .. the RW have so much to attack Obama with using HILLARY's words and videos

She would embarrass Obama with all the things she said about him. No way. No chance. Not happenin'.

[progetto]

76. "must" is a bit strong

I'm sure Obama is seriously considering her, but the coming months should reveal if she's the best choice or not. Today's speech was a great start.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Honeycombe8]

78. "Convince her"? "Convince her"? Like she needs convincing? It's his decision....

He seemed to do pretty well choosing his campaign staff. I expect he'll give all the short list people serious consideration, and will ultimately select the one he thinks will be best.

I'm okay w/it being Clinton. Or anyone else, for that matter. I'm not sure it matters THAT much. But it does matter some.

[AuntPatsy]

80. As much as I admire Sen Clinton this proclamation is just plain silly,

if the past ten years have not inspired people in the dem party to stand united for 08 than nothing will, at this point it doesnt matter nor should it who is the VP, vote DEM period for "change" voting anything else simply is saying we want more of the same.

[CakeGrrl]

81. Kick to re-post the many, many reasons she is POISON FOR THE TICKET

And her speech on Saturday did nothing to counteract or rectify any of these points:

http://www.thepersonalispolitical.com/2008/06/why-no-ni...

[hokies4ever]

85. K&R to support CakeGrrl's point! :-)

Good Lord that article is bruising! I also agree that Obama should look elsewhere for his V.P.. Time to take a stand and make a statement. Hillary's misdeeds shall not be rewarded.

[Yael]

82. Or what -- you are going to stomp your feet and vote for McCain?

[Name removed]

86. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hokies4ever]

84. That's not the way it works

Do you also want to select his cabinet for him also?

Hillary Clinton runs counter to his political message, she is not a team player, she would upstage him or at least try to at some point, Bill post-presidency baggage has not been rummaged through, Hillary accepts PAC money whereas Obama is basing a large part of his candidacy on getting rid of the influence of PAC and lobbyist money...this list could go on forever.

[dorkulon]

87. Pretty sure she's already convinced; it's Obama who needs convincing.

I'm starting to feel the same way though; it seems the Hillary people are such poor sports that they're really willing to screw over the whole country just to get their "revenge."

[TexasObserver]

88. The only opinion that matters for VP is Obama's. He won't make the choice any time soon.

As one of many possible VP selections, Hillary will fill out a bunch of forms, making full disclosure of hers and Bill's dealings and finances. Assuming she can pass that vetting, she'll probably be on a list of the 5-10 finalists for the VP position.

[KoKo]

89. I did at one time...but I DO NOT, ANYMORE! DISASTER! Let him choose who suits him....

and I'm not joining in on any "Progressive Efforts" to push that one... We need her in the Senate to push through Obama's policy....or in his cabinet. She wouldn't be a good VP for him.. And, as I said, I earliers supported her for VP ...but changed mind after reading more about this.

The "Bill Problem" and that he would look like he was "Her VP" because of being the wife of a two-term President is what made me come to the fact that we need a "clean slate" for Pres/VP from Obama.

I would support Hillary in any other ROLE THAT COULD HELP OBAMA, though. Just saying.

[LowerManhattanite]

90. Funny stuff, kid. Funny stuff. n/t

[Zhade]

91. mcLame plays two videos: Tuzla, and clinton endorsing him over Obama.

The first easily proves clinton's a liar, the second undercuts the ticket.

She's never going to see the inside of the White House again, unless it's on a tour.

[cbayer]

95. I do, too.

No other VP choice would make me happier. However, I would also be very happy with her remaining in the Senate.

[EnviroBat]

115. Ok, now THAT makes me puke.

"A Magical World of puppies and kittens, where all of the die-hard Hillary supporters finally got their way,,, sort of... An untrustworthy, narcissistic, back-stabbing, closed-door deal maker was chosen for VP..." Awwwww, how fucking sweet.

[cbayer]

116. Why, aren't you charming?

Nice to make your acquaintance.

[alcibiades_mystery]

96. Oh fer chrissakes...

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

98. I support Obama making the correct decision for VP.

If MethuenProgressive is a Democrat, he must support the choice Barack makes.

[Moochy]

109. That is the Question isn't it?

If it walks like a d*ck, and talks like a d*ck... it's a d*ck.

[Why Syzygy]

99. No. She is the reason her supporters have decided to go with McBomb.

She is too divisive and head strong. That is not the right position for her, and if you care about her, you should know that.

[MethuenProgressive]

101. "too head strong"

You forgot your sign: "Iron my shirt!"

[TexasObserver]

102. Nope. Hillary lacks the qualities Obama finds important, and it's his opinion that counts.

You were wrong about president, and you're wrong about VP. Hillary is not going to be Obama's choice, and almost all of us understand the reasons why.

[snooper2]

103. here's a question..

Do you support Obama in the general with or without Clinton on the ticket...

Simple, yes, or no...

[snooper2]

105. WAITING

.........

[snooper2]

106. WAITING

......

[snooper2]

108. come on MethuenProgressive ...Still Waiting...

......

[snooper2]

112. Still waiting...come on, we know you are out there....

yes, or no...

[BzaDem]

123. Sorry you and your replies are so lonely. :( n/t

[Renew Deal]

126. You're going to be waiting forever. This one was finally banned

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[SeaLyons]

104. Not quite there with you, MethueProgressive...

Maybe I'm just feeling he doesn't deserve her. I agree she would bring a landslide to the party, and as time goes on, I'll probably change my mind.

[polichick]

107. He must "convince" her?? I believe just a mention would do...

But it wouldn't work for the movement ~ which is bigger than Obama.

[LanternWaste]

110. And if we want to unite the party...

And if *we* want to unite the party, we can allow the Pres. to pick his own running mate...

Unity can begin just as easily from within, you know.

And I say this as a person who voted for Sen. Clinton the primaries and supported her to the last.

The unity can start with us, or we can be weak-willed and demand it from some one else.

[cloudythescribbler]

111. Question about underlying value judgments and fact assumptions:

IF -- hypothetical -- there were another candidate who had at least as much political experience and intelligence as HRC, who would be at least as strong if not stronger, in terms of electoral boost (or nondrag) as Hillary Clinton, would you support having that candidate on the ticket, in order to maximize Obama's chances of winning, or is there some other value, like "it's only fair, she came so close to winning" that might trump the other issues.

I assume, in this hypothetical, that Methuen Progressive and others who support Hillary for VP consider that she is the strongest possible running mate, and see at least those polls that they see as bolstering their argument as proof; further, other values, like their own personal liking of HRC, or the belief that 'it's only fair' and Obama choosing some other woman to run on the ticket would be an unjust -- AND, as a result, politically harmful -- slap in the face to HRC, are apt to be seen as being in tandem with the issues I've raised. Obviously there's issues of proof. But my question speaks to what are specific value judgments and what are fact assessments.

The question is whether the desire to see HRC on the ticket is contingent upon certain beliefs about particular facts or not. I will offer my own assessment -- if I WERE MYSELF CONVINCED that Hillary Clinton's baggage and negatives were outweighed RELATIVE TO ANY OTHER CANDIDATE, EVEN EDWARDS, WHO MAKES THE TICKET AS A WHOLE POLL BETTER THAN HRC by her INCREASING the electoral likelihood of Obama winning the maximum number of states, I would at the very LEAST seriously consider her as a good VP candidate.

My own preference, also to lay my cards on the table, as I have stated many times on DU, is for (a) a woman, who (b) NEVER supported the Iraq War Resolution (both as a point of political principle/judgment AND as a practical matter, avoiding the constant haranguing by the press about an obvious inconsistency by BO and (c) who is BOTH highly qualified, and OBVIOUSLY qualified, and (d) does NOT have the kinds of negatives and baggage that HRC brings along. I think Jimmy Carter (who is an excellent EX-president, much better than I thought he was as president), is right about the political logic of what would happen w/HRC on the ticket.

My #1 choice, with LOTS of foreign policy experience, no serious baggage AFAIK, no major negatives with NONRWers, and voted NO on IWR, is Sen Boxer, who could also help carry Florida (in my guesstimate probably even moreso than Hillary).

So -- retort away!!!!

[ShortnFiery]

113. That makes ONE of us. em

[zulchzulu]

114. As soon as Bill releases his list of donors to his library, we'll talk

I doubt Bill will release his list. There is a lot of unvetted crap since Bill left the White House that would be brought up that would be poisonous to the Obama campaign.

It's that simple.

[Beacool]

117. He'll never do it.

The "unity" meme is just another platitude.

[Lord Helmet]

120. she'll unite the party alright, the Republican party

[jgraz]

121. And if he doesn't pick her, you still plan on supporting him... right?

[highplainsdem]

122. I agree completely. We'll need unity to win in November.

Those 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling are also 18 million reasons why she should be on the ticket.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

124. agreed

[JVS]

125. How is the pizza?

[greguganus]

128. It might be too cheesy for him or visa versa. n/t

[SeaLyons]

127. K&R

[JTFrog]

129. Mmmm. Cookie. n/t

[Hutzpa]

130. IBTL

this poster is no longer with us...

LOCKING


kidding.... kidding....

but this poster is truely not with us, see for yourself;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

131. locking

since the OP is no longer a member.

best,
wakemeupwhenitsover