Florida...breaking party rules was merely an act of civil disobedience. Alcee Hastings gets bitter.

[madfloridian]

Good to know that it was merely civil disobedience they were practicing as they disrupted our party for months. I never suspected. That is one way to explain it. I thought this was an interesting write-up. When you throw a whole party into chaos, it is okay if you say you were doing it for a higher cause.

Editorial: Take half a loaf, hit 'em with it

Florida got in trouble for the right reason, to protest the preposterous and discriminatory presidential primary system. Any reform of that will come in the future, but this year's protest should follow through to the final appeal, to drive the point home.

The state held its presidential preference primaries early, on Jan. 29, in defiance of both national parties, despite warnings of penalties and despite the refusal of any candidates to campaign here.

It was an act of civil disobedience, if you will, protesting the practice of letting a few small states, especially Iowa and New Hampshire, go early in the presidential voting every election. That gives these unrepresentative populations a wildly disproportionate influence over elections, at the expense of larger, more diverse states like Florida, with very different interests.

Reinventing history works well also when a state Democratic senator acted foolish. He did get a lot of attention, though. Now the state is claiming it was a good thing after all, and Bill Nelson will get to ram his primary bill through.

Then we have to press the case before Congress for election reform such as that sponsored by U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson of Florida, calling for rotating interregional primaries.Nelson would divide the country into six regions, which will vote on a rotating schedule each four years. It's only fair, and it's the real reason for the brouhaha. Don't let our national leaders forget it.

Michigan figured it out sooner than Florida did. Debbie Dingell said this a while ago...that Michigan performed an act of civil disobedience.

Michigan's civil disobedience.

Debbie Dingell on Ed Schultz: MI performed an act of "civil disobedience."

She endorsed Obama today, and I hear Bill Nelson was on the call to Hillary Clinton about bringing it to an end...so that is a good thing.

A couple of Florida leaders still are concerning me in their efforts and refusal to get on board with the party. Debbie Wasserman Schultz was pushing about a letter to insist that womens' votes be honored and that Hillary be considered for VP. Not a good idea to pressure the nominee.

Alcee Hasting really exhibited some bitterness this week in his response to the DNC ruling. It is really vituperative.

U.S. Rep. Alcee L. Hastings reacts to DNC ruling on the seating of Florida’s delegates

It is a very long statement. Just some portions.

It is with reluctance and disappointment that I accept the DNC’s decision today. I do so not because I agree with the decision but because it is time for us to move on and focus on winning in November.

“I applaud Karen Thurman and the Florida Democratic Party, Robert Wexler, Bill Nelson and others who represented our state and the candidates for doing the best they could with a bad situation.

“Florida Democrats have been serially abused and the DNC is the latest of offenders. How the DNC has the authority to ignore the votes of ‘Jack and Jane Lunch Bucket’ is be-yond my understanding. The insiders who actively sought to disillusion and disenfranchise the more than 1.75 million Florida Democrats who voted on Jan. 29 give new meaning to collective arrogance.

That is so out of line. I never cease to be amazed at the rhetoric of our Florida Democrats.

“I suppose the DNC has the right to block Democrats in Florida from attending the National Convention. They also have the right to be stupid, and stupid they are.

“At the beginning of our great country’s history my ancestors were counted as only two-thirds of a person. Until passage of the 15th Amendment in 1870, they weren’t allowed to vote. During that same time and until 1920, women could not vote. White men who did not own property could not vote at one point in our history as well.

“Now, on May 31, 2008, a group of elitist insiders of the DNC have effectively said that some of my ancestors’ progeny equal only 1/2 and that men and women in Florida who voted on Jan. 29 are 1/2 also. For a Party which will crown its historic nominee on the 45th anniversary of Dr. King’s ‘I Have a Dream’ speech, the DNC’s decision today is tragically ironic.

“As a matter of protest, I do not intend to attend the Democratic National Convention in Denver.

Calling your party "stupid" is pretty doggoned divisive. Comparing their decision to something racist is unforgiveable.

I have not heard from anyone on my local email list of Dems about the amazing candidate we have. Not one single word at all. A neighbor I was talking to today was very pleased, and admitted he was a Democrat. Not a wise thing to do here if you are an office holder. I never knew he was a Democrat. We could talk together on the topic of Obama while former Democratic friends won't go there with me.

They say time heals everything, and in my life I have found that to be mostly true. This is different, a different feel. Just not sure.

[Boz]

1. This is ickes at it again, the bill has been proposed 3 times before, last by Mondale

They are gaming the system to set the odds of a candidate that knows how the deck is stacked. This is not Hillary, she just happened to be the candidate he used this time.

Ickes is playing parliamentary games with our democracy, to set a few people with the ability to be king maker.

The changes he has made stack the deck against any candidate, not aware of these extra cards.

[orleans]

2. fine. give hillary those four fucking delegates she wanted from that florida split

and we can all SHUT UP about it.

[sandnsea]

3. But that's why we added NV & SC

So what's he bitching about again?

[madfloridian]

14. And FL sued them for discrimination for adding those two diverse states

Two lawsuits still pending.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/2177

Accusing the DNC of bias against whites in FL.

[Cha]

4. And? So they got penalized but

couldn't take the heat.

But, they sure can whine.

[Orsino]

5. Does he have a problem with small states getting equal Senate representation, too?

Is he just not too keen on civics?

[cascadiance]

6. They need two Bills to get passed BEFORE they pass this bill as a PRECONDITION!

If they want to replace Iowa as a caucus state to start with, they need to solve two problems FIRST before doing this!

1) GET RID OF TOUCHSCREEN VOTING MACHINES!
- need a total reform bill that MANDATES paper ballots
(currently Iowa's caucus which sets the pace of other primaries subsequent to it, can't be manipulated now. Without doing election reform FIRST, if we have a primary state first, it makes us that much more open to manipulation of the first primary which gives them far more freedom to manipulate the results they want. This manipulation power needs to be taken away before putting a primary state first before a caucus state.

2) Get a new fairness doctrine/media reform bill in place or break up the media companies from the oligopoly they have now FIRST!
- We need to get the media back to a media that gives us an informed public that we can trust going to the polls without having the "educational process" in the first election of the season that the caucus pretty much mandates when people meet at a grass roots level before casting their votes. A caucus is less valuable with an informed voting public. With the M$M the way it is now, the caucus helps counteract the propaganda that we have now.
- the M$M also profits so much from the way we have jockeying for earlier and earlier primaries, without some form of better control. They profit from the increased campaign spending. We need to make sure that MSM reform also takes away the profit incentive of structuring the primaries to maximize profits for media companies at the expense of the public which has to endure more expensive campaigns.

If we can negotiate getting those bills in place, THEN is the time about talking about introducing fairness into the system. Either that, or require that the state that leads the pack has to switch to being a caucus if they want "pole position" without these issues being dealt with, if we want "fairness" in state election order.

[baldguy]

7. Part of civil disobedience is not whining about or trying to avoid punishment.

[Honeycombe8]

8. How narcissistic and arrogant of FL to think that IT should go before the other 48 states.

FL was not the only state not allowed to be first. There are 48 states, not one. There were 8 to 12 states that applied to be allowed to have early primaries.

When FL broke the rules, it violated not just the rules, but it also violated the rights of the voters in the other states that DID abide by the rules.

FL may think it is more important than the other states, but the voters there are no more important than the voters in Oregon or Kansas or Iowa or New Jersey.

So they wanted to violate teh rules, and did. Fine. That means they had to suffer the consequences of violating the rules. Otherwise, what's teh point of having rules? There would be chaos without rules. And, as one person pointed out at the committee hearing, many states would start moving up their primaries more and more, so that we'd end up starting the primaries for 2012 in January of 2009.

One important thing I learned at the committee hearings was that even though FL's legislature decreed a certain day for the primaries, the FL Dem. Party COULD have actually held its primary later, but chose not to.

[hfojvt]

18. Hey now, Florida has 7 or 8% of the US population

Obviously 8% is far more important than 92%. It's just simple math. Don't be stupid like the DNC. I'd like to ask the California, Texas and New York delegations to take Florida into a room and ask them to explain again how their state is so much more important than any other.

[Honeycombe8]

27. For a sec. there, I thought you were gonna point out my goof...there are 50 states, not 48!

What was I thinking?????? (Well, I'm an Obama supporter, and we all know that we can't keep the # of states straight.)

[hokies4ever]

9. I felt that MI Dem legislators had more balls than the FL Dem legislators

In particular Levin. He made it clear with his statement about how Iowa and New Hampshire don't have a god-given right to go first. FL Dems seemed to be hiding behind, "The Republicans made me do it!"

[MaineDem]

10. This is why I think the Congressional and Senate superdelegates should go

They know nothing about the process that many people spend a very long time working through. The DNC members work very hard to come up with the primary plan and then it's agreed to by all the members.

Remember, that this year they were trying to avoid the frontloading of previous years. When all was said and done, every state voted (in one way or another). If FL and MI had stayed where they were they would have been much more relevant AND the primary circus would have come to their states. I think it's terrific that the campaigns had to go everywhere. I wonder if South Dakota ever dreamed they'd be the deciding state?

I don't think the electeds get it at all.

[madfloridian]

16. Yep. FL was on March 11 originally. We could almost have been kingmakers,

Instead we acted like pouty children.

[The Backlash Cometh]

11. What bastards.

This is an offense to everyone out there who has really had to put their ass out on the line for something they believed in. They should feel shame for calling what they did "civil disobedience."

[rucky]

12. Boy do they need to go fuck themselves.

Where's the Dem fighting spirit when it comes to actual injustice?

[kay1864]

13. Goofy and baseless as her editorial is, I have to agree with one single sentence...

That gives these unrepresentative populations a wildly disproportionate influence over elections (referring of course to Iowa and New Hampshire)

The early primaries leave me scratching my head every election year. Missouri, maybe (as representative of the US). Ohio, maybe. Maybe even Pennsylvania. But New Hampshire??

Move 'em to Super Tuesday, I say. :grr:

[Tommy_Carcetti]

15. .

[dionysus]

20. ...

banky will make it better;

[kdpeters]

17. Maybe the civil disobedience of a coward and a weasel, Thoreau he ain't.

An act of civil disobedience requires accepting the consequences of acting on principle. Defiantly breaking to rules to see how much you can get away with is no principled stand. Trying to weasel out of the consequences for your actions is no act of courage.

He's not even a decent con artist.

[Hissyspit]

19. "I do not intend to attend the Democratic National Convention in Denver."

Not constructive.

Franky, I'm hoping I get to go. I want to help defeat McCain... y'know?

Changes to the system, if needed, can be made after the November election.

[madfloridian]

21. Do you think...

you might get to go as a blogger? I have not kept up with all that lately.

[demo dutch]

22. If Bill Nelson gets to ram his primary bill through it will be only good thing out of this and

yes insiders actively sought to disillusion and disenfranchise me and all other Floridians! The more reason to fight for proportional representation and a multi-party system. They have the nerve to ask for contributions, well not a dime!
Independent from now now!

[40ozDonkey]

26. I'm a Floridian who understands rules.

Go to Independent land, where only the wind can hear you speaking for me.

[Jefferson23]

23. My question is, what is the general consensus among Florida's

citizens? Do they not feel outraged by these individuals?? If collectively they do not vote these people out of office, I believe what Donna Brazile said about Florida being its own worst enemy will continue to be a true statement.

[madfloridian]

28. The media has not covered it except from the "we got robbed" point of view.

The Florida bloggers did not speak out either...they went along with the party's view.

So many here just don't know what really happened.

[mystieus]

24. If they seated FL & MI in full Obama would still have more delegates.. the outcome would be the same

[Teaser]

25. When you participate in civil disobedience...

you implicitly and willingly accept the penalties that come along with the act. Indeed, part of the point is to force the state to punish you, in order to demonstrate the unreasonableness of the state.

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.