Hillary only polls well because there was no Kitchen Sink Strategy against her + Rush

[FrenchieCat]

Actually there are several reason that Hillary polls better now than she would in a General Election.

1. Obama has attacked her mainly on the issues, and hasn't even done that in weeks. He did call her Annie Oakley once, but that was about all.

2. GOP have not attacked Sen. Clinton at all. In fact, they encouraged Republicans to vote for her.

3. McCain has not attacked Hillary Clinton at all.

4. Some Hillary supporters when polled say that they prefer Clinton over McCain, but McCain over Obama thereby driving Obama's numbers again McCain down. Obama Supporters do not do this, and so Hillary's number are not harmed by Obama supporters.

5. The Media have not harped on anything about Hillary except for her Tulsa lies. In addition, they have been spreading the misleading "Popular Vote" lie, just like they help her spread the "Count everyvote" in Florida and Michigan. Now, they are helping her by making it seem that every single White woman over the age of 45 will vote for McCain instead of Obama. Further, the media has been doing their Pastobating against Obama since Wright first came out, and enjoying elaborating on his "problem" with certain demographic groups over and over again as often and as detailed as possible.

6. Obama has been attacked in reference to whatever there might be to attack him on from Bowling, to his church, to radicals, to his wife, in a very hyped and "concerned" manner...thereby driving his negative numbers up.

So yes, Hillary doesn't poll badly....but it is only a mirage that this is the case.

[goletian]

1. yup. hillary has had it very easy.

[FrenchieCat]

4. That's why her entire argument as to why she is more electable

is an allusion. The sad part is, she knows this.

Articles like Vanity Fair and further inquest into the Clinton Foundation and Library donors would be a start.

Even Clinton's $800,000 speech payment from Columbia was barely mentioned (although Penn's involvement was touted, but his "faux" firing was hushed).

Then comes the Gun issue and how she was the keynote at the Million Mom March against Guns which was never publicized when it could have been if the media wanted to. Add to that the fact that her math on the popular vote and Florida/Michigan were not reported on truthfully in a straightforward manner by the media outlets.

Burkle and Clinton and Burkle's "Air Fuck One" shenadigans have not yet been explored.

There is much more than that....none of it barely touched.

I could go on and on and on....

[goletian]

7. she had every advantage possible. everything. and she still blew it.

i was even excited have her as an option a few months ago. lol, how naive of me -- how stupid i was.

[FrenchieCat]

12. She used wedge issues as often as possible.

The elitist thing was really a mind blower. The media bought it and sold it.....because they really have been on her side, regardless of what many might believe.

[Tonimontana]

54. Obama has had it so easy, even Drudge is in the tank for him

Hillary has been attacked from all angles. Just because Rush was an exception it doesn't mean Drudge, Dowd, Olbermann, Russert, Gene, Matthews, Shuster, Cohen, etc. etc. etc. weren't against her.

[FrenchieCat]

62. Name the attacks.

Because for everyone you show me, I'll show you two from the same source against Obama.

[FrenchieCat]

77. Silence after an entire day. Figures!

[goletian]

lol, obama was attacked for things he didnt do (finger), things he didnt say, and nonexistent sexism

... just so happens hes not as much of a fuck up for much else thats negative to be thrown at him. hillary has been attacked because shes been screwing up so horribly and so obviously that to ignore most of her bs would look crazy. shes an outright liar and blatant political opportunist.

[sfam]

2. Good thing these polls all disapear over the next few days...

I agree that Hillary has had the "Kid Gloves" treatment from Obama, but perhaps the media thing (your point #5) may be a bit over stated. Hillary has certainly had her fair share of bad coverage.

Bottom line though, this "talking point" like the popular vote "lead" is meaningless. Everyone knows Hillary has fought tooth and nail while Obama has basically played an "up one rook" Chess game since February. Like in Chess where an opponent is up one Rook, Obama already knew he had an insurmountable lead, and has just been trading pieces since then.

[grassfed]

3. She returned the compliment and endorsed McCunt

[FrenchieCat]

6. McCunt! LOL!

good name! :)

But, but, but....isn't McCunt the one that Hillary Supporters will be voting for? That's what I heard.

[Cha]

5. She must be polling well against LIV

voters then 'cause everyone I know is fully aware of all her lies and she polls below 20 with them.

[FrenchieCat]

8. Yep...it is mainly the LIV. There are a lot of them it appears.

They are also the easiest to pander to and fool.

Penn is still waiting for its Gas Tax Holiday, and Puerto Rico is still waiting for Federal Voting rights or something .....

[Quixote1818]

9. I think she also polls well because Republicans say they are for her

to throw off the polls.

[FrenchieCat]

10. Yep. When they are called and given a choice between Obama and Clinton

they know exactly what to say....unless they are Obamacans.

[bigbrother05]

11. k&r, the cat abides

[Captain Hilts]

13. Wow. What a circle jerk this is. nt

[FrenchieCat]

78. How is that?

Come again?

[Piperay]

14. Obama never threw all the dirt that

he could've onto Hillary. If she had the nom you can be sure the repugs would've thrown ALL of it at her plus what they have on Bill.

[guruoo]

15. Nice, except for the attacks launched through the Obama "grassroots" supporter

network instead of through the candidate himself.

[FrenchieCat]

18. Such as.....?

Please elaborate.

[MonkeyFunk]

21. LOL

such as...?

Such as all the smears you posted here. Such as all the huge fucking lies you guys told day after day after day. Such as all the right-wing nonsense you guys dredged up and posted here countless times. All the baseless innuendo you guys posted non-stop.

Such as.... :rofl:

[grassfed]

26. hillbats in history

Meowing Biting Nuns

During the Middle Ages, a nun in a large French convent began to meow like a cat; soon other nuns also meowed. At last all the nuns meowed together every day. A nun in a German nunnery fell to biting all her companions. In the course of a short time all the nuns of this convent began biting each other. The news of this infection among the nuns soon spread, and it now passed from convent to convent throughout a great part of Germany, principally Saxony and Brandenburg. It soon visited the nunneries of Holland, and at last the nuns had the biting mania even as far as Rome. (Zimmermann cited in Hecker 1844, 127)

[cliffordu]

35. LOL!!

That's funny!!

:rofl:

[SoCalDem]

65. Nuns Gone Wild..get the video

produced by the MadMonks Production Co

[FrenchieCat]

23. Someone other than "ignore" has to respond to my question.....

like possibly the poster that made the original statement.

[Piperay]

45. "Ignore" posted nothing but a bunch of

silly crap, you're smart to have them on ignore.

[guruoo]

31. Geezus, you just going to act like it never happened?

I'm not going to argue the point with you, girl.
I mean casual readers might buy it, but anyone that was here for
the duration saw it with their own eyes.
From earily on, you guys launched the attacks, posted the MSM addies, and then rec'ed the posts
to the top. And not just on DU. What else could this have been for?

Hey, it was a brilliant strategy, that allowed your candidate
to remain 'above the frey'.

[FrenchieCat]

40. Why not argue the facts?

These stats are documented:

Fire, friendly and otherwise
While Clinton has had to take her lumps from the media, neither the Obama campaign nor the Republicans have demonstrated much interest in engaging her directly. An analysis of press releases from five sources - the Clinton, Obama and McCain campaigns and the Democratic and Republican National Committees - reveals that since March 1, Obama has been targeted by 151 opposition press releases, McCain 144 and Clinton 9. The last time she was the subject of a McCain campaign press release was on March 17. Therefore, it might not be surprising that Obama and McCain are in an electoral holding pattern, while Clinton has gained on them both.

See Post #17 for link......

Talk is cheap, let's see your "evidence"....

[guruoo]

43. I don't need to play the link game, frenchie.....

I was wrong about you. You've changed.

[FrenchieCat]

46. Why not provide links. That's the least that you can do

since you are throwing out accusations.

And yes, you were wrong about me, just like you are wrong about Barack and about Hillary. So yes, you being wrong is consistent it appears.

I haven't changed, as I have always supported those who were right about the war; bout you?

[guruoo]

51. Whatever.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6235601&mesg_id=6235988

[FrenchieCat]

55. In otherwords, no evidence.

That "whatever" doesn't cut it.

If you can't substantiate accusations, don't make them.

[guruoo]

61. Know the drill - I post them, you try to justify, and on and on ad infinitum

BTDT, and frankly, I have better ways to spend my time.

For instance, Why not spend that time in a more productive way, by
working to convince our fellow campaigners to stop all
attacks against fellow Dems?

Well, how 'bout it?

[FrenchieCat]

63. Hillary and her surrogates are still talking shit.

Until she stops, I'll continue to tell the truth about her myths.

[Kahuna]

74. Somebody's gotta tell the truth about her. Thank goodness for the internet. nt

[XemaSab]

16. It remains to be seen

whether not going negative against Hillary was a good idea. :P

[FrenchieCat]

22. I don't think that Obama felt that going into the gutter against a Democrat

was an ethical thing to do.

Even if he didn't go negative, he is still being treated by Hillary supporters as though he has.

Damned if he didn't; Damned if he would have.

[XemaSab]

32. Well yeah

Obama's too classy for that.

But who knew the Clinton smear machine was as nasty as the Bush smear machine?

I think our party will be changed by this. :(

[woolldog]

17. Frenchie, there's a great article touching on this:

from "Poblano"

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/nate_silver/2008/06/strength_in_numbers.html

[Cha]

28. It's a great article that elucidates

all this "hilary polling better than Obama in the GE" talk.

[FrenchieCat]

37. Thank you for this.

This is the case that I am making, in this one.....

Fire, friendly and otherwise
While Clinton has had to take her lumps from the media, neither the Obama campaign nor the Republicans have demonstrated much interest in engaging her directly. An analysis of press releases from five sources - the Clinton, Obama and McCain campaigns and the Democratic and Republican National Committees - reveals that since March 1, Obama has been targeted by 151 opposition press releases, McCain 144 and Clinton 9. The last time she was the subject of a McCain campaign press release was on March 17. Therefore, it might not be surprising that Obama and McCain are in an electoral holding pattern, while Clinton has gained on them both.

Didn't think of this one.....

Independents
Even where he hasn't performed as well as against McCain overall, Obama has usually performed at least as well as Clinton among independent voters. For example, Obama leads McCain 47%-43% among independents in the latest Newsweek survey, while Clinton trails 42%-46%. What this means is that if and when Democrats unite behind Obama, he may have more upside as a candidate. In fact, if Obama is winning independents, he could afford to lose some Democrats, because the Democrats' substantial edge in party identification gives him a cushion.

Yep....this too--

Did u vote 4 barack?
There are also a series of arguments that the polling data may tend to systematically underestimate Obama's support. A Gallup analysis found that when voters who rely solely on a mobile phone are included in the sample - such voters tend to be disproportionately younger and more urban - Obama gains approximately four points against McCain. However, while Gallup includes cellphone-only voters in their sample, most pollsters do not. Separately, polling in the Democratic primaries has tended to understate Obama's support among black voters, who may be screened out by likely voter models.

[cliffordu]

19. Great post. A concise illustration of the process so far.

They're going to give McCain the same kind of kid glove treatment they gave Hillary. Mark my words.

I'd like to believe that it's just because they have to make it interesting and give the talking heads something to do, and not sublimated racism, but I don't know.....

I don't have much faith in the MSM.

(And a k&r)

[FrenchieCat]

20. The difference is that Obama won't give McCain the

Kid glove treatment.

That will be huge!

[cliffordu]

34. Yep, I think Obama is going to do the job of the MSM for them -

He'll hit McCain so deeply the press will HAVE to look at the facts that Obama brings up -

Obama has some awesome surrogates, too....

[highplainsdem]

24. All the rationalizations are amusing.

Especially the ones suggesting the media didn't attack Hillary and attacked Obama much more. You'd have to be deaf and blind not to notice the misogyny in the media, and all the swooning over Obama "the rock star."

Clinton is approximately as popular as Obama with Democratic voters. Get over it.

Lots of polls show she'd probably do better against McCain in the GE. Get over it.

Obama's apparently the nominee anyway, in what was a very close primary. I can't say I'm thrilled about that, because I'm afraid his Chicago background is a can of worms, and I'm worried about how silent the GOP has been about his background, to this point. I believe Hillary would have been the stronger candidate in the GE and a better president.

But I'm still planning to vote for Obama. I'm still hoping we'll win in November. I'm still hoping he's smart enough to ask her to be his VP, since that's his best chance of winning.

You can all rationalize his not doing better against her all you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that they are both very strong candidates, and very evenly matched.

[FrenchieCat]

27. Can you cite how Hillary was attacked by the media.

Thank you.

[StevieM]

25. Hillary has faced the most hateful campaign of personal destruction in American history.

Barack Obama is a terrible human being who shown that he will stop at nothing in his quest to achieve power.

Obama will win for 2 reasons--he dominated the caucuses and he smeared his opponent.

When Barack loses 48 states in November I am sure you will somehow blame it on Hillary.

Oh well...at least McCain will probably only look to serve one term.

Steve

[FrenchieCat]

29. Can you provide this hateful campaign, please?

Thanks.

Also catalogue the smears.

Thanks.

[StevieM]

33. Here are some examples:

He called her a race-baiter (a blatant lie), he said she would say or do anything to win, he said that she was the status quo.

There are others. Barack Obama is perhaps the most unethical politician we have seen in this country since Joe McCarthy.

Steve

[Skip Intro]

36. He practically started the campaign calling her "bush/cheney-lite."

[grassfed]

41. Hillary is McCain

and an internationally recognized race baiter


Hillary
NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
YES on Bankruptcy bill which stripped protections for people in debt.
YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran - Fool me once...
YES on the Iraq War Resolution.
Hillary refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge

McCain
NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
YES on Bankruptcy bill which stripped protections for people in debt.
YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.
YES on the Iraq War Resolution.
McCain refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge

OBAMA
YES on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
NO on Bankruptcy bill which stripped protections for people in debt.
In response to the Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran Obama drafted legislation stating that Congress did not grant President Bush the authority to attack Iran, either through the Kyl-Lieberman amendment or any resolution previously adopted.
Took a public stand against the Iraq War Resolution
OBAMA signed the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge

Cluster bombs and landmines are particularly terrifying weapons that wreak havoc on communities trying to recover from war. They are fatal impediments to reconstruction and rehabilitation of agricultural land; they destroy valuable livestock; they disable otherwise productive members of society; they maim or kill children trying to salvage them for scrap metal. Over 150 nations have signed the 1997 Mine Ban Treaty. In the autumn of 2006, there was a chance to take a step in the right direction: Senate Amendment No. 4882, an amendment to a Pentagon appropriations bill that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas. Amendment No. 4882 was an easy one to vote against: Who'd want to risk accusation of "tying the hands of the Pentagon" during a never-ending, global War on Terror? As is so often the case, there was no political cost to doing the wrong thing. And there was no political reward for doing the right thing.
But Senator Obama did the right thing.
Senator Obama of Illinois voted IN FAVOR of the ban.
Senator Clinton of New York voted AGAINST the ban.
Analysts say Clinton did not want to risk appearing "soft on terror," as it would have harmed her electability. Amendment Rejected.

http://www.stopclustermunitions.org

[FrenchieCat]

42. Can you provide the "she's a race baiter quote" from Obama.......?

thanks.

She is status quo. And it is obvious to anyone paying attention that she will say anything to win. She even said it.

You are very vague without backup. That's called alluding without proof, i.e., a mirage.

[muryan]

58. Discounting the race-baiter comment

a blatant lie, by you. If you think the other two are as bad as Joe McCarthy...

[JVS]

71. I'm sorry that you cannot face up to the fact that your candidate has race baited.

Especially after her "hardworking Americans, white Americans" comments, I would have thought this to no longer be in dispute.

[guruoo]

38. What? So you can end up going 50 posts back and forth trying to convince

casual readers who may have not been around while it was happening?

Why not just spend that time trying to convince your fellow
campaigners that it's time to stop all the attacks on fellow Dems?

[cliffordu]

39. Keep eating grapes that sour and your face will stay like that forever....

[hokies4ever]

30. Chuck Todd talked about this about a week ago

That Hillary polls well because nobody is running a campaign against her. Obama has held up fairly well considering that he's fighting two fronts.

[JimGinPA]

44. That's All True, And Many Of Us Have Been Arguing Those Points For Awhile...

Those here posting from Hillaryland refuse to acknowledge the truth however.


K&R

[FrenchieCat]

48. One would have to close one's eyes to deny the obvious......

as pointed out in the op.

Hillary Supporters watch Fox for a reason; Fox works to promote Hillary.

[MojoMojoMojo]

47. Obama never said Bamboozeled Hoodwinked?

Never claimed she voted for war when she didnt?
Never claimed he didnt take PAC or lobby money (when he does)
which is an accusation that
Hillary takes it.
All cheap shots that Hillary never addressed properly.
Obama ran a dirt campaign.

[FrenchieCat]

49. She did vote for war.....and didn't vote for the Levin Amendment to boot!

You didn't provide any evidence of dirt. You simply said dirt. That's not how it works.

Guess you are clueless on how one provides evidence as much as how math works.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JTFrog]

72. SHE VOTED FOR WAR.

Hillary was one of the most vocal democrats pushing for the IWR. In her infamous speech she proves not only that she knew she was voting for war, but she even laid out the blueprints to being able to use force the same way her husband did.

NO AMOUNT OF DENIAL OR COGNITIVE DISSONANCE AMONGST HER SUPPORTERS WILL EVER CHANGE THESE FACTS.

http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0303-23.htm

See Hillary Run (from Her Husband's Past on Iraq)
by Scott Ritter

Senator Hillary Clinton wants to become President Hillary Clinton. "I'm in, and I'm in to win," she said, announcing her plans to run for the Democratic nomination for the 2008 Presidential election. Let there be no doubt that Hillary Clinton is about as slippery a species of politician that exists, one who has demonstrated an ability to morph facts into a nebulous blob which blurs the record and distorts the truth. While she has demonstrated this less than flattering ability on a number of issues, nowhere is it so blatant as when dealing with the issue of the ongoing war in Iraq and Hillary Clinton's vote in favor of this war.

This issue won't be resolved even if Hillary Clinton apologizes for her Iraq vote, as other politicians have done, blaming their decision on faulty intelligence on Iraq's WMD capabilities. This is because, like many other Washington politicians at the time, including those now running for president, she had been witness to lies about Iraq's weapons programs to justify attacks on that country by her husband President Bill Clinton and his administration.

"While there is no perfect approach to this thorny dilemma, and while people of good faith and high intelligence can reach diametrically opposed conclusions, I believe the best course is to go to the UN for a strong resolution that scraps the 1998 restrictions on inspections and calls for complete, unlimited inspections with cooperation expected and demanded from Iraq," Senator Clinton said at the time of her vote, in a carefully crafted speech designed to demonstrate her range of knowledge and ability to consider all options. "I know that the Administration wants more, including an explicit authorization to use force, but we may not be able to secure that now, perhaps even later. But if we get a clear requirement for unfettered inspections, I believe the authority to use force to enforce that mandate is inherent in the original 1991 UN resolution, as President Clinton recognized when he launched Operation Desert Fox in 1998."

Hillary would have done well to leave out that last part, the one where her husband, the former President of the United States, used military force as part of a 72-hour bombing campaign ostensibly deemed as a punitive strike in defense of disarmament, but in actuality proved to be a blatant attempt at regime change which used the hyped-up threat of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction as an excuse for action. Sound familiar? While many Americans today condemn the Bush administration for misleading them with false claims of unsubstantiated threats which resulted in the ongoing debacle we face today in Iraq (count Hillary among this crowd), few have reflected back on the day when the man from Hope, Arkansas sat in the Oval Office and initiated the policies of economic sanctions-based containment and regime change which President Bush later brought to fruition when he ordered the invasion of Iraq in March 2003.

...much more at link


Scott Ritter served as a former Marine Corps officer from 1984 until 1991, and as a UN weapons inspector in Iraq from 1991 until 1998. He is the author of several books, including "Iraq Confidential" and "Target Iran". He also co-authored "War on Iraq" with William Pitt.

AND NEVER FORGET THAT SHE DOES NOT CARE IF YOU DON'T LIKE THAT SHE VOTED FOR WAR:

"If the most important thing to any of you is choosing someone who did not cast that vote or has said his vote was a mistake, then there are others to choose from," Mrs. Clinton told an audience in Dover, N.H., in a veiled reference to two rivals for the nomination, Senator Barack Obama of Illinois and former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina.

Hillary interrupted Senator Byrd and took away his floor time allotted to his ANTI-WAR speech so that she could shove the IWR down our throats. The "Goddess of Peace" voted against banning cluster bombs, voted yes on IWR, Kyl-Lieberman and refused to sign the AFC Anti-torture pledge.

Clearly "lying" and "Goddess of Peace" have new meanings in HillaryWorld.

[WA98070]

50. Hillary polls well, as any democrat would, plus her name recognition...Obama will surpass ....

the "any democrat" as America gets to know him. He is nearly unbelievable and it takes faith to have "hope."

[FrenchieCat]

52. My response.....

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_frenchie_080517_how_in_the_general_e.htm

[FrenchieCat]

53. So the question is......

are superdelegates smart enough to understand that Hillary's pitch is nothing but bullshit.

Attaching her to a Obama ticket insures that McCain's base will come out in drove and vote McCain. WIthout her on it, Barr takes McCain's base away.

[AtomicKitten]

56. Barack hasn't laid a glove on her since Pennsylvania.

I am truly bereft of giving a shit about the Clintons at this point.

[FrenchieCat]

79. Which is why her as the Veep Pick is out of the question.......

Cause then the GOP can open up those Hillary baggage.

She has dogged Obama so badly, calling him an elitist and all kinds of hideous nonsense!

[AtomicKitten]

80. she is finished

and I couldn't be more delighted ... :D

[barack the house]

57. He's been attacked but he has survived. Tougher and stronger for it.

[democracy1st]

59. Hillary Clinton has alot of work to do as far as helping heal this party

as far as those lil bigots like Ferraro and those fools over the weekend are concerned I would love to see them vote McCain

[FrenchieCat]

64. Yes, let them vote for McCunt.

Let's see what their love for Hillary does for the country.

[cliffordu]

66. I'll bump this post again, Frenchiecat....

:patriot:

[FrenchieCat]

67. It's the only patriotic thing to do cliffordu!

:patriot:

[VotesForWomen]

68. THERE'S BEEN A KITCHEN SINK STRATEGY AGAINST HER FOR 16 YEARS!!!!!!!!!

What country have you been living in???!!!? hell, nobody even heard of obama a year ago, and since he's skyrocketed to fame in the last 6 mos, he's had a virtual free ride from repugs and the media, but anybody over the age of 25 could tell you that was going to come to an end, just in time to make sure he loses the GE. now that it's getting this close to the GE Obama's going to start getting the same treatment clinton has gotten for 16 years. we'll see if he holds up as well as she has.

[FrenchieCat]

69. Well considering what I've learned about her character over the past

few months....I now I realized that I was a fool for defending her for those 16 years. She may have been guilty as sin, but yet had the entire Democratic party defending her behind all of these years. It is not any dirt that took her out, it was her character or lackthereof.


"Barack Obama has not received better media coverage than Hillary Clinton, according to a new study by the research team at Pew/Harvard, the gold standard in nonpartisan media analysis. After reviewing coverage from January to March, when the majority of states voted, researchers determined that Obama simply did not fare better than Clinton. In fact, reporters "began to turn against Obama before questions surfaced about his pastor Jeremiah Wright," the study found. And Clinton's "Saturday Night Live" gambit - when she chided the moderators of a February debate, "maybe we should ask Barack if he's comfortable and needs another pillow" - apparently worked:"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ari-melber/media-doesnt-love-obama-a_b_104596.html

[VotesForWomen]

70. well, you'll learn the same thing about obama, sooner or later. nt

[FrenchieCat]

75. Doubt it.

What I will learn is that we have finally elected a real leader who listens to us.

Also, that we will have the first Black President of the United States. That's what we will learn.

[Kahuna]

73. Exacrly! For all her whining she has had a free wide. The repukes

have been behind her and have not laid a glove on her. Obama can't attack her because then the clintoons whine that he's attacking a girl. :puke:

[FrenchieCat]

76. That's why she will make an awful Vice President pick!