Why Clinton Can't Appeal To The Credentials Committee--And It's Over, Folks!

[slinkerwink]

In theory, Saturday's rules committee Michigan decision can be appealed to a new body -- the convention's Credentials Committee, when it comes into existence in July. Ickes, in fact, raised just that specter in his final remarks on the Michigan vote and the Clinton acolytes in the audience chanted, "Denver! Denver!" But, in reality, a formal challenge of Saturday's decision can only be brought by a Michigan convention delegate, not by the Clinton campaign itself. The odds are prodigious that -- under almost any scenario -- the four votes that Clinton theoretically lost in the rules committee will not matter by Denver.

Since the Michigan party delegation agreed to the seating of the delegates tonight, not one can come forward to appeal this to the credentials committee. So that leaves Hillary Clinton out in the cold on this issue.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/06/01/dnc/

[slinkerwink]

1. and that's why their threat tonight was idle

[scarletwoman]

2. I like that phrase: "The odds are prodigious..." Just has a nice ring to it.

:D

Thanks for posting this, and thanks for your great reportage during the hearing. :thumbsup:

Peace,
sw

[Hawkeye-X]

3. hey SW - hope you had a good day at the RBC....

And I hope you told that unhinged Hillary Clinton supporter to SHOVE it.

She was fucking nuts.

Hawkeye-X

[slinkerwink]

6. she was seated behind me---that infamous youtube woman

[Tatiana]

8. I am so sorry you had to deal with that.

But I am glad that you and others chose to comport yourself with class and respect for the proceedings.

It's almost over :hug:

[Eurobabe]

17. Another Scarriet, if that's her real name

She was unglued, like her soul-sister Gerri. Good grief. :crazy:

[Why Syzygy]

18. The one in blue from California?

Or do you have a link to the vid? Thanks for your reports. Love your news of course. Almost over.

[mamalone]

19. Wow.....

Did she kick the back of your chair or pull your hair or anything?

That woman was so disturbing. I couldn't help but pity her... these types of vulnerable, unbalanced people are ripe for manipulation by candidates like Clinton.

[slinkerwink]

26. no, she didn't, but she did join others in yelling at the Rules and Bylaws Committee.

[crankychatter]

4. you know... I'm very grateful for ya'all - thanks for thinkin and checkin stuff out - nt

k/r

[cliffordu]

5. KICKED JUST BECAUSE IT'S A GREAT POST!!!!

[slinkerwink]

7. thanks!

[ClayZ]

9. Yay! K and R

[pingzing58]

10. Dammit!

[rg302200]

11. A BIG K AND R

and a big THANK GOD!

[bluestateguy]

12. If Obama wins this by a couple of touchdowns, maybe he could give her the 4 delegates

But then I'm sure she'd just find something else to complain about.

[nebula]

13. Then a Michigan convention legate will have to be bribed

kitchen sink and all.

[SlipperySlope]

14. It takes 15 registered Democrats from Michigan

Appeal to the convention credentials committee does not require any delegates participate. An appeal can be initiated by any 15 Michigan registered Democrats.

[slinkerwink]

15. that's not what it says

[SlipperySlope]

20. What the rules sa]y

"Challenging Parties: A challenge to the credentials of any delegate or alternate to the
2008 Democratic National Convention shall be brought by at least fifteen (15) Democrats
who are residents of the state and level at which delegates to the National Convention are
elected in which the challenge arises..."

[Douglas Carpenter]

21. but the argument is NOT about challenging the credentials of ANY delegate

it is about the voting power of the delegates. The Michigan delegation accepted the change in their voting power. It's finished.

[SlipperySlope]

22. I thought the argument was about assigning delegates to Obama

I didn't see the argument as being about the half-strength, I saw it as being over the assignment of 4 delegates from Hillary to Obama, and giving Obama uncommitted delegates in general.

[Douglas Carpenter]

23. the settlement that gives half a vote to all the delegates is the main point of contention

no one in their right mind could possibly argue that Sen. Obama has O supporters in Michigan.

And no one in their right mind could possibly argue that a primary in which the Michigan electorate and indeed the whole world was told repeatedly would not count toward delegate selection and this was repeated constantly by the media on the eve of and the day of the primary - that such a primary in which only Sen. Clinton was on the ballot, that this was an accurate representation of the will of registered Michigan Democrats; all delegates for Sen. Clinton, O delegates for Sen. Obama.

Absurd would be the polite word that comes to mind.

Even if such absurdity did reach the credentials committee or even the convention floor, there is absolutely no doubt of what the findings would be. And there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever how that would make Sen. Clinton and her followers appear.

[SlipperySlope]

25. Wrong, wrong, wrong...

Read the blog at HillaryClinton.com if you want to know what the argument is about:

http://blog.hillaryclinton.com/blog/main/2008/06/01/013330

There is no objection being made to giving "half a vote" to the delegates. The objection is completely about the reallocation of Michigan delegates.

NOTHING in the party rules gave the committee authority to move four delegates from Hillary to Obama. NOTHING in the party rules gave the committed authority to assign ANY uncommitted delegates to Obama. This "ruling" violated the party rules twice.


So, let me count the ways that other posters have been wrong in this thread:

1: They say that only the Michigan delegates can initiate a credential challenge, when in fact any 15 registered Democrats from Michigan can.

2: They say that the debate is over the "half vote", when Hillary's campaign has made no objection to that part of the compromise.

3: They hold it is reasonable to TAKE four pledged delegates from Hillary and give them to Obama, AND to take a bunch of Uncommitted delegates and give them to Obama as well, when in fact the party rules allow no such thing.

To disprove any of what I have written, all someone has to do is any of the following:

1: Find a party rule that restricts the credential challenge to the Michigan delegates.
2: Find a Clinton campaign statement saying the credential challenge will be over the "half votes"
3: Find a party rule that allows delegates to be reassigned after the voter's have expressed their preference.

[Garbo 2004]

27. The state party determined the delegate allocation; the rules committee approved the state party's

proposal. Seems Clinton's argument should be with the Michigan Dem Party, not the Committee.

[Douglas Carpenter]

16. that makes sense..thanks for the clarification

It is only common sense that if the Michigan delegation is satisfied...and accepts the compromise decision ...how can someone other than the delegation itself appeal a decision regarding the delegation.

Who would the be appealing on behalf of? The delegation that accepted the decision

[iconicgnom]

24. Thanks for info/link. My mind rests a bit easier

[ToddinWI]

28. The Game

I don't think this blowup by Ickes is to actually get the issue moved up to the Credential Committee, but instead is to cause Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt (FUD) in the minds of the SuperDelegates. I also think it was done to energize the base.

[Douglas Carpenter]

29. I would have to agree that is basically a threat to inflect real harm on the Democratic Party

unless the Clinton's are left with a great deal of power and influence in the Party

Although there seems to evidence that even many Clinton supporters are having grave doubts about these kind of strong arm tactics:

LA Times:

Fight or not? Hillary Clinton supporters are split
link to full article:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/hillary-clinton.html

snip:"But appearing on the same program, one of Clinton's most prominent supporters seemed to back away from a battle. Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell started his comments by noting, "I'm not inside the campaign mechanism, but I believe she'll do the right thing for America."

"I don't think we're going to fight this at the convention, because even were we to win it, unless it's going to change enough delegates for Sen. Clinton to get the nomination, then it would be a fight that would have no purpose," he said.

That view was bolstered by an Obama supporter, Sen. Claire McCaskill, who also appeared on CBS. Asked about a fight over credentials, she said: "I think we all want to believe that will not happen. And I think Sen. Clinton will do the right thing."

[Why Syzygy]

30. kick

:kick: