Congratulations Hillary! It's now official that you've won Florida and Michigan!

[Maribelle]

:grouphug:

[FrenchieCat]

1. Hillary won name recognition!

Yeah! :boring:

[Maribelle]

11. How typical of an Obama supporter to trash a thread positive to Hillary in under one minute.

Disgusting, truly.

[democracy1st]

41. ahh don't cry baby

[Maribelle]

44. More trashing?

[rodeodance]

46. Immature obama fans just can't seem to control themselves from demeaning name-calling

[JimGinPA]

71. Snide Clinton Fans Can't Help Deriding Supporters Of The Democratic Nominee...

What does that say about them?

[Maribelle]

77. Hey. This thread is a positive one for Hillary.

Stick to the subject.

[OzarkDem]

82. There is no presumptive nominee

and repeating that myth doesn't make it true.

[JimGinPA]

90. I Didn't Say "Presumptive"...

He is the democratic nominee. You can pretend otherwise if you wish, it doesn't change anything.

[Sterling]

100. this was not in any way a victory for any of us.

I don't give a flying rats ass if you like Obama or HC. Not counting votes (even as 1/2) is against everything I thought we stood for. Any back slapping in this scenario is very immature and short sighted. Because the party let this problem happen in the first place there is no such thing as a legit winner in this primary. No more legit than Bush. I guess that is what we have sunk to. We are what we claim to hate.

[Maribelle]

103. Hear, hear.

And then there is the deplorable issue that Obama is being awarded delegates he did not earn from a primary where he removed his name from the ballot.

[Hola]

123. Clinton got some too

Clinton too was awarded delegate she did not earn, in fact she got 10 more than Obama. You don't see anybody on his side complaining, but IMO they should.

[Maribelle]

126. More than Obama? His name was not on the Michigan ballot. He should receive zero.

[BklnDem75]

137. Was the election legit?

Should have been 0 votes for Clinton, as well.

[polmaven]

130. He removed his name from the ballot voluntarily!

There was no requirement that he do so, there was not "rule" that said he should. He and John Edwards dis it to pander to the Iowa caucus goers. They have absolutely no reason to complain now that they have been given these delegates.

Senator Clinton's name was not the only one on the ballot, as someone in another thread here today claimed. There were actually 4 names still on the ballot. One of them was one of DUs icons, the much respected Congressman Kucinich.

[mcg]

136. Only some of his supporters are like that,

I say congratulations to Hillary and her supporters.

I was for Gore, but he didn't run, then I was for Edwards, I voted for all three (Edwards, Clinton, and Obama), even though Edwards pulled out of the race. I'm backing Obama now, but it would have been ok with me if Clinton had won. She's way better than McCain. As long as a Democrat gets in the White House, that's what matters to me.

[GoldieAZ49]

25. She will win in Denver too!!

Here's to a contested convention :toast:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

34. Here's to Rush Limbaugh!

:toast:

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sterling]

107. Brilliant, snatch defeat from the mouth of victory!

Let's piss off the people we need to win. Are you by any chance in charge of this debacle? Your attitude seems to be in line with the people who screwed this up to start with. Every mistake possible was made during this process. Must we continue to destroy our chances of one of the easiest General Elections in history for ourselves?

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Ah yes, make the REPUBLICAN dream come true

you do understand that, don't you?

[cui bono]

62. So you don't care about the Democratic Party then...

:eyes:

[GoesTo11]

96. You mean Here's to President McCain!

Hillary the traitor.

[rodeodance]

47. you can't give her an ounce of credit can you. shameful.

[Carolina]

74. she won all those bitter, entitled

rule breakers in fucked up Florida.

Liars, cheaters, thieves, rules breakers, disruptors, dividers...

[Maribelle]

106. Most Floridian Democrats are the salt of the earth.

[OzarkDem]

2. Congrats to Hillary!

and congrats to the Democratic party for refusing to disenfranchise Dem voters.

[themaguffin]

12. how would the party have done that since state Dems screwed their own residents?

Please, grow the fuck up before making assinine posts.

[OzarkDem]

61. Take your intolerant rage elsewhere

We're members of the Democratic party. If you have a problem with that, maybe you need to find another party.

[Carolina]

78. no the Ickey Hi-liar-y cohort

need to find another party.

[Maribelle]

109. Is there a way you could turn off your hate spigot?

Or at least buy a plug for that cask hole?

[Carolina]

145. no fucking way in hell

is that clear enough for ya!

edited to add I'm mimicking Hi-liar-y's scorched earth tactics. Plug them!

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

21. she can win! she can win in Soviet style elections

whoopee!!!

[democracy1st]

42. LOL

[greguganus]

23. Idiotic post. n/t

[rodeodance]

51. the only thing that is idiot is your sour grapes post. shemeful.

[uberllama42]

99. What about all the folks who didn't vote

because they were explicitly told their primary would not count? Aren't they still disenfranchised?

[AZ Criminal JD]

125. Who are these people?

There were record turnouts in both Michigan and Florida. There were other offices and measures on the ballot for people to vote for besides president.

[uberllama42]

146. Democrats n/t

[AZ Criminal JD]

156. Ghost Democrats, maybe.

Everyone voted that would have under any circumstances. The turnout proves that.

[uberllama42]

157. There is absolutely no way you could know that

Do you have poll data to support that? Considering that less than half of Florida Democrats voted in the primary, and Florida was the only state in the Union where more Republicans voted than Democrats, I think it is very likely that many Democrats sat out the primary.

High turnout falls woefully short of proving that no one sat out. As was pointed out by Rep. Wexler yesterday, four years ago the turnout was low because the nomination had already been decided by the time Florida got to vote. That was why Florida moved up its primary in the first place.

It's also very likely that the same thing happened in Michigan, where the primary was open. Many Democrats crossed over and voted for Mitt Romney in order to keep his candidacy alive. This made sense because everyone thought at the time that the Democratic primary in that state would not count.

[mcg]

134. Yes, congrats to Hillary, I'm supporting Obama, but I would support her

against McCain. We are all Democrats.

[WeDidIt]

3. Yep, but there is NO popular vote count from Michigan

because the compromise ignored the beauty contest completely.

[OzarkDem]

13. Technically, Obama shouldn't receive any MI delegates

he removed his name from the ballot and waged a campaign against the election there.

[AllentownJake]

18. but he did

:rofl:

Its our party now :-)

[Maribelle]

22. Technically he shouldn't in Florida either according to the 2008 DNC rules and his TV ads.

The ads where in violation of the campaigning clause and reached 6.5 million Floridian households.

[OzarkDem]

118. Agree, all the more reason

to take it up at the Convention. Dems need to clear their reputation and prove once and for all that they stand for counting votes, not kowtowing to celebrity candidates.

[polmaven]

132. Right!

And one of the dpeakers today actually claimed that the vote in FL was unfair because there was no campaigning, and Hillary has a much higher name recognition, and no one really knew Obama, and, and, and....but, but, but.

did you happen to hear Washington Journal this morning? There was a caller who said that she can't believe that Hillary was complaining about counting the votes because in 2000, the Dems needed only one Senator to sign an affidavit to send it for further action, and Hillary wasn't there for them then, so why should the FL Dems be there for her now? ....Yes...I said in 2000! The hate has some of them evidently blaming the First Lady because she wasn't a Senator yet!

[DerekJ]

27. Technically not even Hillary.

[TahitiNut]

29. Technically, Buckeyes have NEVER had 'standing' with regards to Michigan.

It's not like Ohio hasn't enough of it's own problems, y'know?

[madrchsod]

131. actually i think illinois will give both of them problems this year

you were talking about football were`t you?

[uberllama42]

101. Tecnically, they shouldn't seat *any* delegates

They are changing the rules at the very end of the race. Nothing they could have done would have enfranchised everyone, but the least they could have done would have been to leave the rules intact.

[TahitiNut]

143. That's right. But what's 'right' and politics are often contradictory.

:shrug:

[uberllama42]

144. I wish they had held a second set of (valid) primaries

That would make sense to me- it would allow the people who sat out to have their voices counted, and wouldn't equate the valid votes in the other 48 states with the illegitimate ones from FL and MI.

What's best for the party and what's right, sadly, don't always line up.

[BklnDem75]

141. Technically...

neither should she. We count sanctioned elections.

[mystieus]

4. Congratulations Hillary!

[Window]

14. Congratulation Hillary...now go home...PLEASE.

[PBS Poll-435]

5. Yeah. She did.

:thumbsup:

[mudesi]

6. No it's not. This is a sham. Shame on all of you (nm)

[rodeodance]

57. whiny sour grapes. Get some sunshine.

[Doityourself]

7. You guys are entertaining...lol

[Skrelnick]

8. Whoopdy doo indeed. SHE STILL LOSES.

If you can't understand that by now, perhaps you need to repeat 2nd grade. Particularly, the arithmetic portion.

[cbayer]

9. I am glad we have moved towards a resolution

and I hope she does not challenge it.

:toast:

[NanceGreggs]

48. Might I join you?

:toast:

[cbayer]

70. Well, yes. I would be honored.

:toast:

[jefferson_dem]

10. She won the beauty contests.

True dat.

[OzarkDem]

16. Is that the new Obama meme for the day?

Seems rather silly and childish.

[jefferson_dem]

24. After that infantile whiny crybaby bullshit today...

Hillary and her followers have no business making such accusations.

[rodeodance]

52. there is pure Hillary hate on this tread.

[OzarkDem]

66. These aren't Democrats, that's for certain

Not sure just what they are.

[rodeodance]

87. i agree. --not sure what they are either.

[Carolina]

88. ya damn straight

hatred for Hi-liar-y and her Bush-like narcissistic, sociopathic bullies who lie, cheat, steal, disrupt, break rules, have situational ethics and DO/SAY ANYTHING TO WIN.

[MrRobotsHolyOrders]

68. Yes, but you still lost

Really, you did.

[AtomicKitten]

15. It's over. Time to move on to the general election.

[Blondiegrrl]

17. By changing the rules of the game after it had already been played.

Congratulations! What a hollow victory!

[zulchzulu]

19. Yay! Let's tell our daughters that women can win IF THEY CHEAT AND LIE

How could anyone look in the mirror and say they "won" either of those races? It was obvious that both states broke the rules. Both states had flawed primaries. Incredibly flawed.

It's like someone claiming they won a chess match because they spilled the pieces all over the room.

This firmly puts the Clintons and their legacy as nothing but lies and deception. And guess what? THEY STILL LOST!

:rofl:

[GoldieAZ49]

20. ON TO DENVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She will win there too!

[intaglio]

30. Ummmmmm How?

Will she use her immense wealth to bribe her way to victory. I doubt it

[GoldieAZ49]

32. Super delegate polling (endorsements) does not a vote make

They vote in Denver, and pledged delegates can vote anyway they want as well

[OzarkDem]

80. Agree, delegates are committed for the first round of voting only

How quickly we forget the way the democratic process works.

[pescao]

how can there be more than one round of voting?

there are only two candidates left - one of them must win in the first round.

[Maribelle]

33. By following the DNC rules and going before the Credentials Committee.

[intaglio]

39. The credentials committee will be controlled by?

The leader in delegates, I think. Now who might that be?

Kucinich?


Edwards?


Clinton?


Or O.b.a.m.a?

[newmajority]

79. ON TO WEDNESDAY !!!!!!!!!1111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When Hillary resigns.

[cboy4]

93. It should be interesting. This is democracy at its finest!!

:bounce:

[midnight]

116. I wish I could go. That is going to be were the party is.

[my3boyz]

26. And lost the nomination!! All in one day! Enjoy it Hill!

[Pushed To The Left]

28. That's true. The delegates will be seated. There was a penalty, but they will be seated.

I would like to see Senator Clinton come out today and say that she will NOT take this to the convention. The delegates got seated, and she has been declared the winner in Florida and Michigan. I think it was a very fair compromise that penalized the states for breaking the rules while still giving their delegates a voice. It was a victory for supporters of both Obama and Clinton.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

31. I'ts wasy to "win" MI without an opponent. Why did she keep her

name on the ballot when the others didn't? I never heard the explanation on that.

As an O supporter - I actually have no problem with FL - although it would be interesting
to see if the same results would stand today. Just like the post about the CA poll that
show O would win today in CA in a do-over.

[polmaven]

133. Well, actually,

1/2 of the candidtes left their names on the ballot, and the other 1/2 found it more enticing to pander to Iowa.

[Elspeth]

35. kick

:kick:

[sandnsea]

36. Are you even familiar with the word "shame"??

I learned what it was like to live in Germany, during the Bush years. Now I know what it was like to live in the Soviet Union.

[rodeodance]

73. are you familar with graciousness?? -a simple Congrats would do.

[sandnsea]

83. lol, I guess that's a resounding no

None of you have enough familiarity with shame to denounce this Potemkin Primary.

[OzarkDem]

89. Yes, we experience it every time

we see Obama supporters acting like bigots who hate the democratic process.

[Spider Jerusalem]

37. And official that she's lost the nomination, come Tuesday.

Thank fucking god.

[Arrowhead2k1]

38. Yeah, congrats Hillary.

Now go fuck yourselves. Obama is the nominee.

[Maribelle]

50. Are you trying to impress anyone with your filth?

I don't believe it's working.

[Arrowhead2k1]

53. My filth? I've obviously made an impression on you.

So here's another big FUCK YOU to Hillary just for you.

[Maribelle]

60. Only in your dreams, hero.

[Arrowhead2k1]

102. Oh, so I failed to leave a negative impression on you?

Ah well, atleast one of my dreams still has a chance of becoming reality.

[mcg]

140. Being rude to Clinton supporters does not help Obama. nt

[sfam]

43. Congrats Hillary!!! Now when are you planning on endorsing Obama and uniting our party?

Hopefully this Wednesday?

[rodeodance]

54. see you in Denver

[Occam Bandage]

59. Indeed! We'll all get together to celebrate Obama's nomination!

[sfam]

111. Amazing...its all about "her" not the country...

Fairly sad, really. She's apparently willing to cede the election to John McCain just because she ran a lousy campaign. What's sadder is how many democrats she's convinced to become lemmings in jumping off the cliff with her.

[Exultant Democracy]

49. Someone needs to tell that to Hillary's supporters at the meeting.

They are acting like today was a dramatic victory for Obama.

[Maribelle]

56. Hillary's supporters have known all along Hillary won Florida and Michigan.

It's the delegates that are being awarded to Obama that he did not earn that is a serious issue. They are totally against Obama stealing delegates.

[Carolina]

95. oh puhleeze

[cbc5g]

55. She wins when others don't have a chance to campaign against her! YES!

lol

[Maribelle]

58. Yes. Massachusetts is a great example of this. California is another one.

Wake up.

[Occam Bandage]

63. Both are great examples of why FL was invalid, actually, since Obama made up 10-20 points in both

of those states by campaigning there.

[Maribelle]

67. Only if you believe the polls that were so wrong,to wit New Hampshire.

[Occam Bandage]

72. Most polls were accurate in most states. Don't start denying polling; it's never a good argument.

[Carolina]

65. California has buyer's remorse

An Californian Pelosi will put Hi-Liar-y in her place this week.

Buh-bye.

[RememberWellstone]

64. Awesome.

Good news for her after the past couple of weeks.

[mystieus]

154. Lovely!

[cui bono]

69. Wow. Low standards these days. Winning against almost nobody else.

Pathetic.

[Maribelle]

76. Obama's ads reached 6.5 million households in Florida. Hillary's reached zero.

[cui bono]

113. and Hillary attended fundraisers in Florida. So they're even there. n/t

[Maribelle]

115. And Obama did also, fully within the rules that they could.

[cui bono]

117. I hadn't heard that he had, but that is my point. Both were within rules so it's even.

[Maribelle]

120. No they're not even. Obama's ads were against the rules.

[cui bono]

148. No, they weren't. They were national ads. They are even.

naner naner naner

And here you are trying to pass this off as a positive thread... tsk tsk.

[rodeodance]

84. your post is pathetic and silly. Obama took his name of MI of his own free will --then

he he sent his lawyers into MI to prevent a re-vote. Then he demanded
delegates he did not deserve.


He played dirty politics the whole way!!

[cui bono]

114. A lot of people changed party affiliation due to knowing their votes wouldn't count

and wanting to vote in the Republican primary. They would not have been able to vote again. So a lot of people believe that a revote wasn't the best option. Frankly, I think he would have won a revote at this point in the game. I wish CA would have a revote.

And how can one possibly determine who deserves which delegates? Clinton certainly doesn't "deserve" the percentage alloted based on the votes since it was between her and "uncommitted". You don't really think that's fair do you? I mean really, truly believe it, deep down in your heart, once you forget that you have certain things you have to say because of your unwavering support of your candidate.

[polmaven]

139. Why would they want to vote in the Republican Primary?

Just to get the "right" Republican in the GE? That makes NO sense! There were 4 Democrtas on the ballot, and there were other issues and questions to vote on. It's not like they needed to take a Republican ballot in order to vote!

[cui bono]

149. I guess you missed the whole call for Dems to vote for Romney to keep

the Republican race going.

I did get something wrong though. They didn't have to change party affiliation, but if they voted in the Rep. primary they could not vote again in the Dem primary. And since the Dem primary wasn't going to count for anything they went ahead and voted in the Rep. one to try to influence it.

You know, like Limbaugh is having his listeners do to the Dem primaries, and how he had them show up at the RBC meeting today. Same idea.

[Tippy]

75. UNITY.............it's time folks the begin the process

[Maribelle]

81. As you can see by the bashing posts in this thread, Obama supporters don't care about unity.

[cbc5g]

85. Yes by bashing your disunity post we are demonstrating we don't care about unity...

[Maribelle]

97. My disunity post? What, I said congratulations to Hillary, a long overdue congratulations?

[cui bono]

119. feigned innocence.

[Maribelle]

122. So the mere mention of Hillary in a positive light is disunity?

Have you Obama followers created a new set of rules which you demand everyone will follow or else you'll personally attack them, or something?

[cui bono]

147. No, and again, your feigned innocence is quite transparent.

You're like the kid who purposely does something to irritate their sibling and acts all innocent as if you didn't know what the reaction would be when you make a ridiculous statement.

[Donkey_Punch_Dubya]

110. Replies totally expected in GDP

I'm neutral in Obama-Clinton, so I think I can say without bias that Obama fans have posted the most hateful, vicious and distorted crap of all candidates in the last month at least. You can see in some of the responses by 3 or 4 of the WORST Obama fans here.

There are 5-10 horrible, embarassing Clinton supporters here.

There are 100+ horrible embarrassing Obama supporters here. And those 100 end up posting as much as the 2000 good Obama supporters.

If these people want Obama to win, the should NEVER say a word about the election to any undecided voter, because they will push people to McCain. And then blame everyone but themselves for it.

[Tippy]

152. I support Obama

[OzarkDem]

92. Too late for that

that was part of Obama's plan - promoting divisiveness and poisoning the pool of unity and Democratic Party pride.

[Maribelle]

98. That was the only way they thought he could win.

[dennysp]

127. You DO realize that you're being silly, don't you?

There's no way Hillary OR Obama could win the general election without support of Democrats and Independents. I understand the jubilation over Sen. Clinton's "win" today. Now, how can Democrats possibly benefit from a convention floor fight? Even if Sen. Clinton gets what she says she wants, the party will be split, and John McCain Bush wins the general election. Please explain to me what the plan is, because I'm ready for the war to end.

[dennysp]

128. Are you saying it was Sen. Obama's plan to get McCain elected?

[galloglas]

138. Why ??

So he could win the nomination in 2012 ??

[Tippy]

153. One attack after another....I'm sorry I even called for UNITY....

[cboy4]

91. I've been working today and hadn't heard the news!

Wow!

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

94. That does appear to be True. But Obama still takes the prize.

K&R for what the Hillary side has accomplished today. Double so, for our party. Levin and Wexler were very inspiring today.

[polmaven]

142. And if he does, this will

make it a LOT easier for the Clinton supporters to support him more enthusiastically.

I'm quite sure that there will be some of his supporters here who will continue to spew venom on any of the then "former" Clinton supporters, but that will show them to be what they are..childish juveniles who have a real need to hate.

This is, however, the Democratic Party, and this is how it has always been. We NEVER have walked in any kind of lockstep, and I hope we never do. After all...it has won us the last 4 presidential elections!

[Renew Deal]

104. Good point

:applause:

[Gore1FL]

105. You have the right attitude Maribelle

Clinton won the day. You seem to be taking this as a victory, while many of her other supporters feel outraged in their victory.

[Elidor]

108. If that's what you call victory - winning with no opponent on the ballot

Then the bar is set pretty low, isn't it? By hook or by crook, by any means possible, fair or foul, Hillary will refuse all reasonable compromise in a situation where she's already terribly compromised. And you claim this as a victory?

It's nothing but clench-fisted 'ME FIRST!'-ism. Nothing noble was won here. You call it a victory. I call it the final greasy stain on the grubby Clinton legacy.

[AZ Criminal JD]

129. Both states had opponents

There were four candidates on the ballot in Michigan plus the uncommitted choice. Obama supporters were urging an "uncommitted" vote. Kucinich actively campaigned in the state. All candidates were on the ballot in Florida and Obama ran radio ads there. But of course you knew all that, you just wanted to post the Obama quota of lies on DU today.

[taterguy]

112. Someone in this thread needs one of these

[mod mom]

121. What a sweet victory knowing the other candidate wasn't even on the ballot and that

folks stayed home knowing it wasn't going to count. :eyes:

[Maribelle]

124. 'The other'? Do you forget how many Democratic candidates there where then?

And how many were still on the ballot?

[NightWatcher]

135. and it accomplished.....Jack Shit!!! congrats

[vaberella]

150. Thanks for this post....

Now explain to me the name calling, the threatening to vote for McCain, and the shouts of "How could you do this to us?" that was coming from the Clinton camp at the DNC meeting. The commentary by Ickes that said the DNC bigwigs were "hijacking" and he'll take i to the "convention" or the booming at the mentioned name of "Obama".

From what I surmised and yeah I taped and sat through that entire 8 hour drama, Obama was getting tons of heat and blame...while it can be said Obama didn't win either state or get the majority votes.

I can't wrap my head around the reactions because of a decision that was out of Obama's hands. Further more, the only plus on Obama's side was that they presented their case and ended up victorious in still be ahead in delegates. Beyond that, Hillary was favored but, there is tons of lies and negative reactions that borderline on hate if one doesn't call them outright HATE towards him and his supporters.

[ruby slippers]

151. Is this the same thing as "appeasement?"

[berni_mccoy]

155. You should be thanking Obama for graciously conceding these states to her.