What the hell is wrong with the Trinity church congregation?

[BobbyVan]

The congregation cheers "God Damn America" and applauds preachers who talk about white entitlement.

McCain may disingenuously try to stay above this, but Obama is going to pay a big price for this in the GE. Look at what they did to a war hero like Sen. Cleland.

Obama needs to leave the church. It's not just Rev. Wright, and it's not just Father Pfleger.

It's the congregation.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

1. Hillary needs to stop throwing back liquor in front of cameras - its unbecoming

and sets a bad example to our children.

[BobbyVan]

3. I kind of agree with you

Funny how you change the subject so quickly.

[WeDidIt]

27. Funny how YOU judge people based upon a few seconds of video

YOU don't know anybody in that congregation.

I DO!

So take your self righteous bullshit for political gain high road nonsense and stick it where it belongs!

You are painting REAL PEOPLE with a broad brush over a few seconds of video cherry picked for it's shock value.

UNTIL YOU MEET AND SPEAK WITH MEMBERS OF THIS COMMUNITY, YOU AHVE NO FUCKING CLUE ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE TALKING!!!

[BobbyVan]

34. It doesn't matter -- millions of Americans have already made up their minds about Obama's church

And it's going to hurt him in the General Election.

You sound like a guest on the Jerry Springer show saying, "YOU DON'T KNOW ME," while the whole audience boos.

Elections have been won and lost on less than this. Swiftboating works, and we are walking right into another one.

Good thing there's still time to make the right decision.

[WeDidIt]

39. Freaky Deaky

Have fun with McCain, you deserve him.

[BobbyVan]

40. No, you deserve him, because you refuse to support the candidate who has a chance of beating him

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Doityourself]

57. Agreed. We can disagree without the acrimony and name calling

[WeDidIt]

60. The OP directly name called friends of mine in the OP

For that, my oipinion of the OP will never alter until the OP apologizes.

[BobbyVan]

65. What name did I call them? I just asked what was wrong with them.

[redstate_democrat]

105. McCain has a lot of problems. - Rubpert Murdoch

and Hillary has a lot of problems - per The Voters

Hillary and McCain have been running around trying to get Obama on anything. They have nothing so they have top resort to guilt by association tactics.

Problem is, they are targeting the wrong black person. He is not a militant, but a peace loving person who wants unity. Damn, I know that hurts their plans, but that's how it is.

Since they don't have any dirt on the man himself, they have to resort to this.

Now Hillary and McCain? There is a TON of stuff yet to even surface that they themselves have said and done.

[WeDidIt]

58. My opinion of you as a human being remains unaltered, regardless

You have directly disparaged friends of mine with broad brush insinuations, and for that I will never forgive you.

Goodbye.

[Straight Shooter]

94. You will never forgive someone for the act of disparagement?

Wow. I'm not even a Christian, but my target for nonforgiveness is people who molest children.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

84. Senator Sniper Fire?

Newsflash: She lost the primary.

[iamthebandfanman]

124. So Obama doesnt?

surely you arent saying OUR NOMINEE wont win?

like the other guy said, im sure people on FR would enjoy a post like this... you should probably go register.

[redstate_democrat]

103. Trinity church is not going to be an issue in the GE.

You have no clue about what you're talking about. Hillary's IWR vote actually matters more and has translated into real votes lost. Get a clue.

Anyway, McCain will have bigger problems to deal with come the GE.

[TBF]

143. The right decision is to go with the man we've voted for.

Republicans and racists aren't going to vote for him anyway, and they are the ones most caught up in this. You've got one questionable episode for Obama, while there are years of material on Hillary. We are definitely making the right decision on nominating Obama.

[indimuse]

109. YOU DON'T!

IT"s NOT ABOUT US IN HERE!!!!! It is about perception....OUT THERE!!! Hellooooooo


How is this GOOD for Obama in the GE....explain Lucy!

[amandabeech]

134. What do your friends say about these comments?

What about Trinity appeals to them?

You've posted before that you know people in this congragation. Please write about what they think.

You have valuable information. Please disseminate it.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

79. Another overwrought attack from the Clinton campaign

The Clinton camps last desperate screeching.

[gaspee]

82. Gah

Why aren't you already on my ignore list?

You are irrational and filled with hatred and you *really* ought to change your username because it's blatantly false.


Edited to add--
The username thing is about the dude above you, calling himself "iwantanydem" - in fact, the whole post should have been in reply to him, not you.

[Doityourself]

5. Remember, she's Annie Oakley..gun toting, Crown Royal drinking savior of the USA! How

could that be a bad example for the kiddie?

[Raejeanowl]

59. Annie Oakley Was Such A Despicable Role Model

We know what this imagery is really about, don't we? Female doing "male macho" things that wouldn't cause a murmur otherwise.

[Doityourself]

62. It was a joke. I'm a gun toting, shot drinking, annie oakely savior myself..lmao

[Raejeanowl]

66. I'm Glad...Missed Your Sarcasm Smiley

Meanwhile, a friend upthread may be totally serious about it. Unbecoming a lady and all that.

[Doityourself]

69. As a an independent, assertive feminist, I see no harm in Hill's drinking..even though I'm an Obama

supporter.

I do plenty of it myself.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

78. a feminist doesn't pretend to be a man - thats male impersonation

She's no feminist, and this isn't assertiveness, its pandering to the ignorant.

[Doityourself]

81. I don't pretend to know why she does, only why I do it..and I'm certainly not pandering..

[HowHasItComeToThis]

90. CHANGE THE WORLD

DEMAND MINISTERS GET A

REAL JOB

[genna]

126. The call to ministry is probably the best job anyone could have.

It is an overbroad declaration, but what you said has the same fallacy.

I believe ministry is one of those things secular people need to stay out of.

Attack the message all you want...as for the clergy unless they are advocating death or grave bodily harm for non-believers LEAVE THEM OUT OF IT.

[Raejeanowl]

50. Unbecoming...What's That Sexist Expression Again? n/t

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

75. Unbecoming of an officer or a presidential candidate. She gets no free passes for being a woman.

blah.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

76. Didn't her advisor say Hillary has THREE testicles?

so perhaps she isn't the symbol of feminism.

[Jen-MI]

86. What about staying on topic???

You obviously don't want to hear things about Obama.

[rodeodance]

112. Hillary had nothing to with with this. Fact is. she was insulted by Father P. at Obama's church.

[Doityourself]

2. Are you as outraged at Hagee's congregation, or any other or is your

disdain and disbelief only for Trinity?

[BobbyVan]

4. Of course I'm outraged at Hagee's congregation

If McCain had sat in Hagee's church for 20 years, Obama would have nothing to worry about.

[Doityourself]

7. Then make an all inclusive rebuke..don't single out Trinity..that's unfair and I think Obama

doesn't have anything to worry about..people will be more concerned with gas at $6 per gallon and food costs running off the rail. By the fall, this will be a blip on the screen. So, don't believe the hype!

[BobbyVan]

9. In an America where Bush was reelected in 2004 based on Swiftboat bullshit

we can't assume that we'll win just because we're right on the issues.

It's just a fact that Obama is closer to Trinity than McCain is to Hagee and CUFI. Frankly, no one believes that the same McCain who trashed Robertson and Falwell is now some crazy fundamentalist -- he just cynically sought their endorsements.

Unfortunately, Obama sat in a crazy church with crazy preachers and a crazy congregation for 20 years. That's a fact, and it's going to hurt him in the fall.

[Doityourself]

17. Won't hurt him with me...I can't control what others do with their vote. I've been in many a

black churches in my whole life, I know not to take such sermons to heart.

But, hey that's just me.

[BobbyVan]

20. Yeah, and of course I'll vote for whoever the Dem nominee is.

But the point of this election isn't to win the votes of DU'ers, is it?

[Doityourself]

22. No its not, but as I said, I can't control how anyone else votes and I won't lose

any sleep over it.

If we win, we win. If we don't, we lose.

It's really that simple.

Of course, I will continue to work and register as many Dems as I can, and speak positively of the coming elections in the fall, but as I said, there is only so much I can do...

[BobbyVan]

29. I'll lose plenty of sleep if a Republican wins. This is why Dems have lost 2 elections to a retard:

Because we vote for self-gratification, not strategically.

Hillary is the stronger candidate, but if voting for Obama makes you feel good, what can I do to stop you?

[Doityourself]

38. You see Hillary as the stronger candidate, and you're entitled. I disagree. Btw, if I voted

simply for self-gratification, I'd vote Republican every single time out the gagte because I always make out like a bandit financially when they are in office. My bottom line goes way up.

But I am not selfish and feel I only need so much, and would rather spread the wealth and share my time with those that are less fortunante than I am...

[BobbyVan]

42. That's funny, when Republicans are in office I get poorer. Do you work for Exxon or Halliburton?

[Doityourself]

45. Nope. Maybe you need to re-think your investments and how you handle your funds!

Btw, why the sarcastic, flippant remarks with regard to Exxon and Halliburton.

Here I thought, we were having a decent discussion.

[BobbyVan]

48. So you're saying Republican government is good for the bottom line?

I'm just surprised to hear that from a DU'er.

Sorry about the sarcasm, I'm just getting worked up defending myself from charges of "bigotry".

[Doityourself]

I said my bottom line. Of course it isn't good for the country though. Big difference.

Now calm down. If you get worked up over false charges, then you lose and the accuser wins...

[BobbyVan]

54. All right dude, we're cool

[Doityourself]

55. Ha Ha..I'll take "Dudette" for $1000 Alex...

[BobbyVan]

71. Ha!

[iamthebandfanman]

123. and that makes it okay to swiftboat Obama?

im sorry, thats all this is.

[Bucky]

12. I don't think Democrats should have to re-establish liberal bona fides with every post, but....

I'm someone who loathes racial divisiveness and political electioneering in all churches. Until recently my complaints were entirely directed against Republicans and conservative fundamentalists who used the power of religion to block progressivism and to turn Americans against each other.

Now the shit is being flung from my side of the fence by people who claim to support the same candidate as me. My values haven't changed just to suit the moment. But I do fear this guy will hurt my side of the fence in November.

[fed_up_mother]

19. Thank you. Very well written, and I agree completely.

[reflection]

141. Bucky, this was a real gem. Totally agree. n/t

[fed_up_mother]

15. I'm not outraged at Hagee. A person can only have outrage for so long.

I've known about him too long to have any outrage LEFT. Disgusted. Yes.

However, knowing what the Rev. Wright brought on to the Obama campaign, you would think the staff and members of this church would GROW UP.

They really piss me off.

There. I said it. I guess they don't really care if McCain wins, as long as they get their little vaudeville act in church every Sunday. I wonder if they bring popcorn?



I'm sorry, but liberation theology (social justice, etc.) is not the issue (as some tried to make it the issue with Wright). These people just don't give a damn as long as they have their ten minutes of fame.

[demokatgurrl]

6. In my most paranoid moment this morning

I had a vision that this guy was a plant. By the McCain or Clinton campaigns?
Or maybe just a whacko who secretly wants Obama to lose.
If he were an ally of Obama, there is absolutely no explanation. None.
If there is, someone please educate me.

[Doityourself]

11. I kind of believe what Mike Barnicle said on MSNBC..he got in front of the

congregation and tried to perform like Rev. Wright,it's like he had an inferiority complex.

Hey, him being a Catholic priest, maybe his desire is really to be a fire and brimstone, baptist preacher and this was his chance to perform and embrace that dream. I seriously don't think he was trying to hurt Obama, anymore than Samantha Power was when she called Hillary a monster.

People get caught up and forget about the consequences.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

77. No - this is classic Father Pfleger - I've seen other "sermons" by him

and this phonie media outrage is ridiculous and manufactured.

WHere's the outrage at the lies that sent people to war?

[amandabeech]

135. Threads expressing outrage about Iraq can be found in GD.

Go over there and start one. I'm sure you'll get plenty of response because I can't remember the last positive post about that disaster here on DU. We all hate it.

GD-P is about politics. Father Pfleger is the topic. If you've seen his other sermons, please educate the rest of us instead of changing the topic.

[JoFerret]

140. He comes across as a total pander priest

and creepy with it.

[2rth2pwr]

93. You mean, want to believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VNZvmespok&feature=rela...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0WpXhcgeMM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjJlsGrlbUs&feature=rela...

[Bucky]

26. I think his problem has more to do what sociologists call "roll immersion"

He's so used to having his words not matter because he speaks to the disenfranchised, he's so used to seeing his congregants held back by racism, that he percieves all obstacles to success through the narrow spectrum of racist ideologies.

He has confused simple racial prejudices with actual racism. He has forgotten Hanlon's Razor--Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance. Barack Obama can win over lots of white swing voters in a contest against a McBush candidate. But that task becomes infinitely harder if you call those same voters' first choice for president an outright racist.

[JVS]

8. Have you ever been where they live? Things are fucked up there, it leaves its mark.

[BobbyVan]

14. Nice argument, so it must have left a mark on Obama too, huh?

[JVS]

23. A congregation in South Chicago is going to reflect the issues that the people there experience.

It might even focus on these issues to an extent that outsiders find offensive.

[BobbyVan]

37. "Offending outsiders" isn't exactly a winning strategy, is it?

[JVS]

56. Pfleger's job isn't to please anyone and TUCC and the Arch-diocese of Chicago aren't running.

[BobbyVan]

67. Pfleger can preach however he wants to. Obama is the one who has a choice.

[JVS]

70. Why is Obama responsible for the words of Pfleger?

He already said that he didn't much like the words. That's his choice. Why do you think he has some kind of guilt for Pfleger's words?

[BobbyVan]

72. My problem is with how the Trinity church reacts to this stuff.

You can make all the excuses in the world for their cheering things that most people find offensive, but Obama's membership in that congregation is going to be difficult for middle America to swallow.

[JVS]

73. Well then write them a fucking letter and quit complaining to us about it.

[WeDidIt]

35. I've been there

I know these people.

The OP is a broad brusher who has no fucking clue.

[JVS]

49. What gets me is people saying "why do these pastors stir up racial tension"

I lived there for a few months on a job. Racial tension isn't stirred up, it's an everpresent fact of life. Nobody told me before I got there that Hyde Park is where to be if you're not poor and black and in the few blocks between Woodlawn and Hyde Park, one goes between two very different worlds. I had the option to leave, but some people spend their whole lives there and can't leave. And people wonder "why are they so mad?"

[olkaz]

10. No thanks.

I think Obama has heard enough "OMG OBAMA HAS TO DO X, Y, AND Z!!!" this campaign.

Axelrod is doing a fine job.

[ashrob123]

13. So you don't believe that white privilege exists?

[BobbyVan]

18. That's a winning General Election message. Do you people want to lose again???

[ashrob123]

30. Hillary will never win the GE

because she has personally isolated the black electorate. She also won't win because Republicans across the world will run, crawl, walk and be re-born to vote against her ass. She's used goods.

[KittyWampus]

33. No, we want a candidate like Hillary who gives a call out specifically to white voters

funny how you weren't offended by that.

[City Lights]

52. "Do you people want to lose again???"

Of course not. That's why I support Obama.

[Turn CO Blue]

95. "you people".

[AspenRose]

119. Yep.

.

[mythyc]

144. ... :

[fed_up_mother]

32. White privilege exists, but how does this help Obama's campaign

This stupid act is either: hurtful, neutral, and helpful.

Honestly, which category would you consider this little act? Honestly?

[hfojvt]

111. I don't believe that white privilege exists

that it is as significant as class privilege.

[WeDidIt]

16. Fuck anybody who ahs a problem with the congregation

I have friends who are members and they are wonderful people.

Your bullshit spewing based upon a few minutes of clips spun round and round in a loop for hours on end PROVES you have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

[gaspee]

85. Fuck anybody

Who's too stupid too see that this is going to be a problem in the GE and needs to be dealt with somehow.

Knowing better doesn't make everything just fine - yeah, we all knew the swiftboaters were full of shit too, but that really worked out well, didn't it?

And you really need to change your username to something like

ObamaOrBust
ObamaOrNoOne
ObamaNow

[TahitiNut]

139. I'd love to attend service there ... and I'm not even 'religious.'

I think it'd be great to be among people who don't have to clench their rectal sphincters like they're minting new dimes.

[Bok_Tukalo]

21. This has been a very interesting precedent set for a campaign

The scrutiny of churches and individual religions will be heightened in the future.

Not sure if that is a good or bad thing but can only assume it is bad. Up until now, it was usually confined to what the candidate said. Now, religious dogma and the statements of various clergy connected to the candidates are added to the fray. Currently, most are with this because it is not their particular faith under the microscope.

[BobbyVan]

25. Obama made it an issue when he titled his book, "The Audacity of Hope"

And if we're going to be attacking Hagee and Robertson, we need to make sure we're pure on our side. You know, the whole throwing rocks and glass houses thing.

[Bok_Tukalo]

36. Not sure how the title of his book matters

As far as Hagee and Robertson, the better comparison with the candidates would be how Obama has handled Farrakhan's support.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

80. Obama is a dirty "hope monger" thank God there's Hillary - she can make sure we have NO hope

She can make sure we don't get health care, that we don't get out of Iraq
and that our country remains divided.

[sfam]

31. I'm gonna go on record and say this is a BAD thing...nt

[gaspee]

89. Hopefully

It will get religion out of the public sphere - yeah, right. I can only wish.

[stray cat]

24. Certainly not respectable presbyterians! (please note sarcasm)

[sfam]

28. What's really wrong is the MSM's focus on pastors, and their soaking up the political spotlight...

Lets go back to a separation of church and state, ey? I really am so past being sick and tired of truly loony preachers doing their shtick for the rest of the country to watch. I am SOOO not interested in hearing about loony preachers talking about whether Obama, McCain or Hillary is God's choice, nor am I interested in whether they think Hitler was doing a favor for God in killing the Jews, or any of the other rediculousness we have been "treated" to.

And yeah, a church that continually is putting people up on stage advocating for a specific candidate probably needs to have their tax exempt status reviewed. And I say that as a fervent Obama supporter.

[lojasmo]

41. They're religious.

They may be a different brand of crazy than other religious folk, but they're religious...that's what is wrong with them.

[ozone_man]

64. It's the universally accepted neurosis.

But it's still crazy.

Pandering to the evangelical voters has it's risks, and it's come around to bite him pretty good.

Shouldn't we be electing more secular people (like our founders) that we want to make decisions based on reality?

I like Obama though, and will give him a pass this time around because he acknowledges the rights of nonbelievers too.

[intheflow]

96. Secular like these founding fathers?

Lyman Hall, a minster so radical parishioners opposed his ordination and he was eventually dismissed for having bad moral character.

and

John Witherspoon, a minster who helped found the Presbyterian Church of America.

and

Thomas Jefferson, who studied biblical texts in German, Latin and Greek to write his own interpretation of the Bible. His Jesus was human, the miracles of the New Testament were removed, but Jefferson still revered Jesus as a religious leader and example of how to live a moral life.

There has never been a "pure" separation of church and state in this country.

[ozone_man]

108. Jefferson was a secular leader

as were all of the first dozen or so presidents. They tried to keep the clergy from interfering in government. Nowhere is God to be found in the Constitution.

Jefferson's bible was a secular bible, where all supernatural references had been removed. Jesus was a moral philosopher to him, not divine. More important than what Jefferson's specific religious beliefs were (he was a deist as where most founders) was that they he (and they) felt that religion was a private matter. This is the issue that many raise with the present day politicians who insist on pandering to the religious. We've been backsliding since the founders. God began to appear on our money, then God appeared in our pledge, now God appears in our political campaigns and is a litmus test for high office. So it will be welcome day for the nonreligious when this pandering comes to an end.

Only in the letters to each other did they confide their religious beliefs or lack of them:

It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticism that three are one and one is three, and yet, that the one is not three, and the three not one.... But this constitutes the craft, the power, and profits of the priests. Sweep away their gossamer fabrics of fictitious religion, and they would catch no more flies.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams (August 22, 1813), Works, Vol. IV, p. 205, Randolph's edition

The metaphysical insanities of Athanasius, of Loyola, and of Calvin, are, to my understanding, mere relapses into polytheism, differing from paganism only by being more unintelligible. The religion of Jesus is founded in the Unity of God, and this principle chiefly, gave it triumph over the rabble of heathen gods then acknowledged.
-- Thomas Jefferson, equating the Dogma of the Trinity with polytheism and calling it more unintelligible than paganism, in his letter to Rev Jared Sparks upon receipt of the latters' latest book (November 4, 1820)

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/qframe.htm

A big difference between the deist founders and Obama (or Clinton apparently) is that they didn't believe in a Christian God (the metaphysical insanities of Athanasius). I have to think that Obama and Clinton are smarter than that. Maybe not.

[blonndee]

43. Are you concerned? I'm sorry.

Everything will be okay. Really.

[ClassWarrior]

46. Yes, Obama needs to distance himself from the church with Progressive values...

...but Hilly needs to hug those hateful, RW bigots even closer.



NGU.

[fed_up_mother]

51. My daughter is a minister in a progressive Baptist church

Very social justice oriented. And they seek to heal, not divide.

if you call yourself a christian and preach in church, ya' might want to ask WWJD every now and then.

[genna]

128. Jesus would challenge the social mores and ask for better treatment

Exactly what social justice does in Chicago's streets daily.

There are radical social justice churches on the left. Why is this news to Democrats?

[fed_up_mother]

133. That "performance" was downright ugly. No need to be ugly to be "radical."

In CHURCH?

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Renew Deal]

61. Your concern is duly noted.

[Life Long Dem]

63. Obama is bringing the woman's chorus from Trinity into the White House

Glory, Glory, Hallelujah!!!

[IndianaJones]

68. It looks like a great congregation to me. nt.

[izzybeans]

74. What's wrong with you?

[NOLALady]

83. Nothing is wrong with the congregation.

Maybe their view of the world is different from your view.

[rodeodance]

113. they were yuking up the hate speech.

[NOLALady]

118. Actually it sounded like a comedy routine.

Mocking white privilege is not hate speech.

[nichomachus]

87. OMG -- have they talked about assassination? Oh, no, that was Hillary

What's wrong with her?

[Rene]

88. You're absolutely right......and obama/family sat thru that for 20 years.

I'll never support obama. Hillary gets my write-in if she's not the nominee.

[cliffordu]

92. bummer

[uponit7771]

98. FAIL

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PolNewf]

97. Two days after the RFK comment

and you are surprised the congregation enjoyed mocking Clinton?

NEWSFLASH: AAs aren't Hillary's biggest fans anymore.

[rodeodance]

114. stop with the assination talk. Its stupid and you know it.

[NOLALady]

145. And Pastorgate part 2 is not stupid?

[ecdab]

99. Thank you for your concern - it has been noted.

[Swamp Rat]

100. Are you a member of the Trinity Church in question?

How is this relevant?

[Oak2004]

101. So let me get this?

Republicans build their party on a boatload of (mostly) white preachers spewing hate at pretty much every oppressed and disadvanteged group in America and the world, stopping at nothing -- not even the advocacy of murder.

One largely black congregation in Chicago occasionally addresses the issues of white privilege and imperialism.

In the meanwhile the US is on the verge of economic collapse, we're losing two wars simultaneously and our military is crumbling, Americans are dying from hunger, homelessness, and lack of medical care, and we're about to fry our planet.

You are outraged at the black church?

The Republicans have lost three special elections in a row in traditionally Republican districts while running ads against this black church.

You advise us that this black church will lead to the defeat of the Democratic Party?

Fortunately, I have a solution for you

(... hits "ignore")

[kwenu]

102. You should be asking what the hell is wrong with our government and arguing why our nominee should

win in November! Get focused Democrat!

[Hamlette]

104. yeah, America never does anything wrong and the whites ARE entitled!

any anyone who doesn't think whites are entitled should suck it up damn it.

This is AMERICA.

(Oh, wait. The OP was sarcasm...right?)

[rucky]

106. What the hell is wrong with GD-P?

could you imagine if somehow the things written here were re-enacted over the YouTubes and went viral?

We'd scare the shit out of Average Americans, even though we keep coming back for more.

[fishwax]

107. absolutely nothing n/t

[EFerrari]

110. What's the matter with you?

[ieoeja]

115. They're Black in a country that spent two hundred years treating Blacks like shit. n/t

[EFerrari]

121. Closer to 400. n/t

[workinclasszero]

116. Nobody cares except republican knuckle draggers who would

never vote for a black man in the first place.

Oh and Hillary's white hard working racists of course.

[quaker bill]

117. Ever read the bible?

Check out the book of Jeremiah sometime. It is about a prophet who while wanting the best for Israel, condemns it for leaving behind the widows and orphans in terms that make Dr. Wright (Dr. Jeremiah Wright) seem rather accomodating and kind. Strong social criticism (of one's own culture) is nothing new to mainstream Christianity.

Indeed the US Alien and Sedition Act was used to send Quakers, Baptist, and Methodist Pastors to prison for criticism of our intended involvement in WWI. Preaching sermons against this war was made illegal. This is why a number of these Churches gathered along with curiously, the YMCA, to create the American Civil Liberties Union. The ACLU fought for and eventually resecured the right to criticise the government in public, to include in sermons delivered from the pulpit.

Now I am sure you think this to be a horrid thing, but I do not.

[genna]

129. what quaker bill said

Social justice and political criticism is within the mainstream of Christianity.

Your facts are music of my ears.

[Raineyb]

120. What's wrong with talking about white entitlement? NT

[iamthebandfanman]

122. and only hillary supporters care

makes ya wonder, dont it ?
ohhh yeah, being bitter will make people do that sorta thing.
you know, care about something that means nothing just because they HATE someone.

you hillary supporters gave up on talking actual real issues that effect the country and went straight for people somebody knows even though they arent running for president and they have nothing to do with the campaign.

its really sad.

trust me, you hillary supporters that are still hanging in there get my complete pity and sympathy.

truly sad.

[genna]

125. It might be. But I don't think so.

Max Clelland
John Kerry
Bill Clinton
Al Gore


Each and everyone.

He already must live with the words he can no longer separate from Wright than he can separate from his own Grandmother.

The Republicans are