DU is (supposedly) a Progressive website. So let's support the most progressive candidate!

[MethuenProgressive]

http://www.progressivepunch.org /

Hillary Clinton:
Progressive Score (%) Rank
All issues 91.11 20/100

Barack Obama:
All issues 88.54 25/100

John W. McCain:
All issues 13.90 60/100

Enjoy! Share!

[GarbagemanLB]

1. IWR, Cluster bombs, Kyl Lieberman. True progressive values!

[AtomicKitten]

7. Indeed. ;)

[The Doctor.]

60. Ummm "Progressive Punch, Leading with the left"...

"...a non-partisan searchable database of Congressional voting records from a Progressive perspective."


~ There's yer sign. It's an amateur site with poor methodology. When a vote to authorize war equals a vote to table a bill on corporate subsidies, it's got amateur written all over it.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Doityourself]

2. Gonna Pass. Thanks, but no thanks.

[Lisa0825]

3. DLC is not = to progressive

Neither is war.

[yourguide]

4. DU is a progressive web site supporting the progressive candidate that is winning FAIRLY.

[AllentownJake]

5. Umm No thanks

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

6. I can barely see Hillary's lips moving anymore when you post.

[Lerkfish]

29. LOL! good one.

[SeaLyons]

8. K&R

Go Hillary!!

[MethuenProgressive]

35. Thanks for the pro-progressive rec, Cricket!

Progressives ROCK!!

[SeaLyons]

44. ...

[ShortnFiery]

9. ....

If you replace "Progressive" with "Corrupt Megalomaniac" you'd be *spot on* about your beloved HRC.

[billyoc]

10. You've convinced me. What can I do to help?

[MethuenProgressive]

36. Well, according to what's been posted on DU...

...you can donate to Obama, because there's a secret plot to have him help pay off her debt.

[billyoc]

50. Done. Let me know if I can do anything else.

[reflection]

11. Sounds like you've been enjoying and sharing already. n/t

[Richard Steele]

12. DU is a Democratic website, so howzabout we support the Democratic Party Nominee?

nm

[MethuenProgressive]

15. "Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals,"

HRC's the more progressive candidate, according to unbiased observers.

[scheming daemons]

20. Actually, Kucinich is the most progressive candidate.... and he's just as likely as HRC to win

[TahitiNut]

40. Yup. That's why I support Dennis Kucinich. All the way to Denver!!!

YeeeeaarghhhHHH!

[Richard Steele]

25. ...AND TO SUPPORT DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES FOR PUBLIC OFFICE.

Next.

[Richard Steele]

65. Gee, I finish the sentence you start, and you scarper. PWN3D much?

nm

[JVS]

13. You don't get to claim to be the progressive candidate after going "Southern Strategy"

[Blue-Jay]

14. Dennis Kucinich?

[MethuenProgressive]

21. All issues: 88.72 122/435 Above BO, below HRC.

[Blue-Jay]

24. So, that website is saying that Sen Clinton is "more liberal" than Rep Kucinich?

You don't expect people to take that seriously, do you?

[MethuenProgressive]

More measurably progressive. DK talks a good game, but gets little done.

Actions speak louder than words. Hence the order of: Hillary, Barack, then John.

[Blue-Jay]

30. OK. Let's back up.... Who compiled those statistics?

I need a name, please.

[MethuenProgressive]

33. "ProgressivePunch" A non-partisan searchable database of Congressional voting records.

ProgressivePunch is a non-partisan searchable database of Congressional voting records from a Progressive perspective. But we're convinced it's extremely useful irrespective of anyone's political positions.
We show the performance of members within 160 different issue categories, and detailed vote descriptions, thereby empowering you to zero in on what matters to you.

[Blue-Jay]

37. Yes. I read the "About Us" from the website.

What I want to know is WHO compiled those statistics, and by WHAT MEASURE they arrived at their conclusions. What were the metrics? How did they weight each issue?

You know.... facts.

[TahitiNut]

43. And that betrays the bullshit on that website.

When ANY measure of 'progressive' or 'liberal' equates deregulation of global corporations (i.e. NEO-liberalism), it's clear that the measure is coorrupted by corporate interests.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

51. The way they come up with their numbers is...

to attribute the direct opposite of the most conservative stance as being the most Progressive. Which isn't necessarily true.

[TahitiNut]

52. It's also by a specious tally ... no weighting, no ideological heft.

I have a real issue with such specious metrics ... it's like counting pock marks to assess health. There's a paucity of weighting and delineation. In a conservative Congress with a far-right Executive, the basis for such a tally is questionable and it ignores horse-trades.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

54. Horse-trades are a good point.

At a point when there's no fear of losing a vote is it wrong for a candidate to barter for the better interest of their constituents? I say no, but litmus test such as this one would say yes. The reality is that politics are by the very nature a barter and trade system. So, which is better? A politician who has no desire to negotiate, or a politician who is set in their ideology? Then that brings up the question which one is going to be more effective at getting things done for the people?

I can understand the desire to have all the researching done for you at the click of a button. But the reality is a spreadsheet of votes isn't really a measure of intention nor results.

[Bjorn Against]

69. Dennis Kucinich was only rated the 122nd most progressive member of Congress on that site...

Nancy "impeachment is off the table" Pelosi was the third most progressive, and Kucinich was way down in 122nd place. That should tell you something about the credibility of Progressive Punch's rating system.

[MethuenProgressive]

71. Actions speak louder than words. DK talks a lot, but gets little done.

ymmv

[Bjorn Against]

74. Even if that were true it doesnt matter, that site is not based on who gets stuff done.

Their rating system takes voting records into account, but it does not take into account whether those votes were succesful nor does it take into account the legislation introduced. It only accounts for the votes that were cast, making your point completely irrelevant even if it were true.

[NJmaverick]

I have a few questions

1) Is how "progressive" a candidate is, the best criteria to use? Why?

2) Why should we use or trust this measurement, over other ones?

3) Hillary has lost the ability to win the primary, so what's the point?

[Cant trust em]

16. On the domestic social agenda she's pretty good.

Her foreign policy hawkishness scares the shit out of me.

[cali]

17. Madame Obliterate is done.

Voted for the IWR. Voted for K/L. And silly sites scoring legislators by how this or that they are, aren't something thinking people go by. All votes are NOT equal.

[scheming daemons]

18. That was fine... up until the race was over. Now its just a choice between Obama and McCain

[Forkboy]

19. Where were you when Kucinich was running?

[MethuenProgressive]

23. I sent Dennis money. Sent just about everyone (including BO) money except Edwards.

I never trusted Johnny Edwards.

[Forkboy]

38. Never saw you defending him,

Never saw you talk about him being the most progressive back then when it could have counted.

[MethuenProgressive]

45. I'm flattered that you stalked, read, and commited to memory every DU post I've ever made!

Please send a photo. I hope you're as pretty as all my other stalkers!

[Forkboy]

46. The last defense of a loser.

[MethuenProgressive]

72. Don't be so hard on yourself.

If you're too embarassed to send a pic, that's OK.

[ProSense]

22. Oh, that BS site again?

Robert Casey:
Progressive Score (%) Rank
All issues 92.35 13/100


You are (supposedly) more intelligent than this OP.

[Blue-Jay]

26. "You are (supposedly) more intelligent than this OP."

Sez WHO?

[Occam Bandage]

27. Wow. They use an insane system of grading.

They pick 6 "progressive" Senators, and 39 "progressive" Reps, and define the "progressive" position as however those people vote. I've never really seen it done that way before.

[Indenturedebtor]

34. Bwahahahaha that's hilarious!

What will we do for humor when HRC is finally forced out!

[cbc5g]

59. And instantly the OP becomes EPIC FAIL

They judge progressivism by REP values!! LOL!!

[iamthebandfanman]

28. sorry, i go by her actions and words

not some website with a rating system. i could make a website and make the numbers come out differently, would that make it so ?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/celeste-fremon/clinton-sl...


thats all that needs to be said about hillary being 'progressive' or a 'liberal'

p.s. if your response is going to be to slam the author as an arguement to why what she said on AUDIO TAPE to someone isnt true ... dont bother.

http://www.jedreport.com/2008/04/huffington-post.html
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Report_Clinton_slams_Move...

[MethuenProgressive]

32. Celest Fremon? Author of "Why I Heart Huckabee the Anti-Evolutionist"?

Yeah. You can have that pos.

[iamthebandfanman]

42. and that changes what she said in the recording?

yeah, keep telling yourself that.

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Report_Clinton_slams_Move...
http://www.jedreport.com/2008/04/huffington-post.html

[Lone_Star_Dem]

31. Tammy Baldwin/Frank Lautenberg or Frank Lautenberg/Tammy Baldwin For President!!

[dysfunctional press]

39. so- progressivepunch.org is THE highest authority in determining how progressive a candidate is?

why?

[Hawkeye-X]

41. *kaff*

No, the answer is still Barack Obama. So you have new goalpost based on who's the most progressive/liberal?

I got one for you. Barack Obama "MOST LIBERAL SENATOR" from The National Journal.

Beat ya with it!

Hawkeye-X

[CaptJasHook]

47. The progressive candidates are already gone. Hillary is not to be trusted as a Progressive

she didn't come through for health care in 92/93. Her husband gave us NAFTA and the WTO. She bad mouthed party activists and abandoned the young and the college educated. She continues to drive wedges into the Democratic party.... a decidedly unProgressive values. Then there is Obliterate Iran..

As for Obama, he is definitely a centrist in economics.... or at least a pragmatist. But every presidential candidate I have ever seen in the General election has been a centrist. No surprise there.

Sorry MP, another fail.

[dionysus]

48. FAIL

[not_too_L8]

53. your numbers do not seem to be correct

[RichardRay]

55. What's a Progressive?

What is that site's definition of a 'Progressive'? There are some classical definitions of 'Progressive' that quite happily approve of things like eugenics, internment of Japanese citizens, the cultural genocide against Native Americans, etc.

Progressive != Liberal, for certain.

[smiley_glad_hands]

56. Edwards is more progressive than either O or H.

But I'll settle for O, he's not DLC, which is the antiprogressive.

[bvar22]

57. Painfully transparent bullshit.

Forcing all Americans to purchase private Health Insurance from "For Profit" vendors, and then pouring taxpayer dollars into the pockets of the same For Profit vendors (subsidies) is NOT a Progressive policy. It is a REPUBLICAN scam.

Adding insult to injury is the arrogance to call this scam "Universal HealthCare".

Hillary is FAR from "Progressive". In fact, she was the MOST conservative out of the original field.

The REAL Progressive/Liberal Senators ALL have endorsed Obama:
John Kerry
Russ Feingold
Ted Kennedy

The MOST Conservative Senators (DLC) have endorsed Hillary:
Diane Feinstein
Bill Nelson (Fla)
Blanche Lincoln
Mark Pryor

I trust the judgment of Hillary's peers.
I also know which group I'll stand with.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[cbc5g]

58. Gee you Hill supporters said Obama was the most liberal elitist in the senate and cant win...hmmm...

And Hill voted for the war so STFU.

[bonito]

61. FYI

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

62. -

[Apollo11]

63. Dude! You like totally nailed it!

Too bad she doesn't have enough delegates to be the nominee, as far as I know.

[Prophet 451]

64. Several problems with that

Firstly, their method of defining the "progressive" position is, well, demented.

Secondly, they assume that all votes carry equal weight. Granted, that's unavoidable with polling but humans tend to put more emphasis on certain issues than others.

Thirdly, HRC has already lost.

[madrchsod]

66. second only to levin in military/defense contractor earmarks

[Critters2]

67. Right!! Let's support John Edwards!! nt

[LeftyMom]

68. Is this Mirror Hillary, perchance? Does Mirror Universe Hillary rock a goatee?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[JoFerret]

70. The word progressive has been drained of meaning

That said - Clinton is the more left candidate on most issues.
I would expect more ACTUAL change(that I care most about) to occur with her as president than with Obama.

[MethuenProgressive]

76. You make a good point.

Thanks for the response!

[MethuenProgressive]

73. Thanks for the recs and kicks!

[MethuenProgressive]

75. An excellent presentation of the facts presented by ProgressivePunch:

http://www.bythefault.com/2008/05/30/progressive-punch-... /

ProgressivePunch is a non-partisan searchable database of Congressional voting records from a Progressive perspective. True blue Democrats won’t be surprised that Clinton ranked as more progressive than Obama. The rank represents their rank among their Senate colleagues.

Category/Issue HRC Score HRC Rank BHO Score BHO Rank
Corporate Subsidies 100 1 77.71 28
Education & The Arts 90.91 37 85.71 42
Environment 92.21 20 94.44 16
Taxation 96.92 13 93.10 31
Family Planning 87.50 33 80.00 40
Checks on Corporate Power 96.75 7 91.18 18
Health Care 98.96 12 92.86 31
Housing 100 1 100 1
Human Rights/Civil Liberties 87.93 25 75.00 41
Justice/Criminal Law 93.90 19 87.85 26

Labor Rights 91.55 20 91.67 17
Making Govt. Work 94.41 15 87.32 33
War & Peace 85.37 34 88.26 28
OVERALL 91.11 20 88.54 25
Source: ProgressPunch.org

Senator Clinton ranked in the top fifth of the Senate in ten of the 13 categories while Obama ranked in the top fifth of the Senate only four times. Senator Clinton achieved two number one rankings Corporate Subsidies (that is toughest on) and on Housing issues where was ironically tied with Obama, his only number one ranking.

I have been arguing for months that Obama is the coporate establishment candidate. I have profiled his ties to Big Pharma, Oil & Gas and other Energy companies and his deep personal ties to lobbyists. That he underperforms Clinton in the category of Checks on Corporate Power is no surprise to me, my query is more when it will it surprise his adoring supporters that Obama is not who he says he is.

Particularly galling is Obama’s 40th ranking on family planning issues. It will be a cold day in hell before I donate money to NARAL and Obama’s 41st ranking on Human Rights & Civil Liberties. Obama’s worse performance came in the field of education where he ranked 42nd. I am a bit shocked by the poor performance on education but certainly not surprised on the former two categories.

I am also struck that in the category of Making Government Work, sort of the centerpiece of Obama’s quixotic campaign, Clinton ranked 15th and Obama 33rd. Not even close.

[barack the house]

77. Barack got 96 percent in the league of conservationists ratings Hillary got 90. Also

.. are cluster bombs now progressive, that's a new one to me. Princess Diana would of disagreed with this land mine bomb.

[MethuenProgressive]

78. Attacking Pakistan is "Progressive"?

Tell us more!