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Why Hillary Clinton can NOT be Obama's running mate.

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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 11:12 AM
Original message
Why Hillary Clinton can NOT be Obama's running mate.
I know that a small number of people on this board are enamored of this ticket. I know that Randi Rhodes is saying that if Hillary wants it she will get it. I know that some pundits even think that this would actually be a good idea, that it would unite the party, that it would combine each candidate's strengths into an unbeatable team. Polls right now may even be quite favorable to such a ticket. I'm sure there are even some die hard Hillary supporters out there who won't vote for Obama unless she is on the ticket.

Quite apart from the fact that there is nothing that arouses the passions of the other side like their hatred for Hillary. The truth of the matter is that Hillary Clinton simply is not mentally fit to be Obama's running mate. In recent weeks we've seen EXACTLY how she stands up under pressure. To all except for her die hard supporters she is becoming a caricature and a laughing stock. Can you even begin to IMAGINE what she would be like on Obama's ticket, PARTICULARLY if it under conditions of coercion? Can you imagine what the Republicans and the media would do with it? Imagine the constant gaffes and the outrageous fabrications coming out of her mouth day after day after day. Imagine her spending the campaign's money like a drunken sailor. Imagine her continually undermining him and stabbing him in the back because what she REALLY wants is to run again in 2012. Imagine her and her people refusing to submit to the discipline of Obama's campaign because her "professionals" know "better". Picture Bill under those circumstances. Can you imagine him submitting to anyone at ALL, let alone that young upstart Obama?

If Barack Obama has any kind of strategic vision, he will see this. If his powers of persuasion are worth anything at all, he will be able to convince recalcitrant SD's of this reality. If he fails at this, he will have demonstrated a MASSIVE failure of leadership. The entire country will know it, and the consequences will show in the results of the general election.

I'm not saying it can't or won't happen, I'm saying that if it does happen it will be a disaster of massive proportions and will likely cost us the election.

Remember, it doesn't matter what polls say at any given moment at this stage in a campaign. If it did, Obama would have dropped out before Iowa because he would have known that it was hopeless. I truly believe that Obama has the strategic vision to see what a disaster this would be and to convey that knowledge to the movers and shakers in the party.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. Speak for yourself buddy - she doesn't arouse *my* passions!
:P
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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. wait this week out
wait this week out - the superdelegate logjam will break now that the primaries are (finally) over.

my concern: with her on the ticket, my reagan-democrat ohio-resident bush-voting parents will NOT vote for BHO. their hatred of HRC & WJC is irrational & cannot be reversed, and they are exactly like millions of others. the RW noise machine has been very thorough in brainwashing the populace.

without her, the odds are pretty good i can persuade them to vote their liberal beliefs again, not their pocketbook fears.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Your parents are not alone
Clinton did not make every Arkansan her friend when she lived here, and many have long memories. Their vote against her will be for personal reasons. (I will vote for whoever is on the Democratic ticket, btw.)
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. Well, it's sinking like a stone, but at least I got it off my chest.
:)
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ccharles000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think Hillary would be a great VP.
:hi:
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I know you do.
However, I do think I managed to articulate my own reasons for thinking it's a very bad idea, and clarified my own thoughts in my own head to my own satisfaction. :hi:
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ccharles000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. I respect your opinion.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. I like the Supreme Court idea much better, or a Cabinet post.
HRC and BHO would make an impossibly incompatible executive team, it's just totally unrealistic, imho.

sw
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. Well, HRC as VP is such a thoroughly horrible idea, that I think it's self-evident to most
intelligent people, and therefore, largely goes without saying.

:)
sw
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. But yet I have to listen to Jon Hartmann going on about how wonderful it would be
and Randi Rhodes saying that Hillary WILL get it if she wants it. To say nothing of seeing it promoted endlessly on this board.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Well, it's not like it's in any of our hands, anyway. Not even Hartmann & Rhodes.
I'm inclined to trust in Obama not being an idiot; it will be his call and I think he's smart enough to take good care of his self-interest.

The Clintons will no doubt have to appeased with something; therefore, at every opportunity I promote the idea of giving Hillary either a Cabinet post or a seat on the Supreme Court, along with a nice Ambassadorship for Bill.

Peace,
sw
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
9. It won't happen. Their politics and vision are too different n/t
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Ino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. Totally agree!
Plus nothing will bring out the Repukes like a Clinton on the ticket -- including ones who would otherwise stay home out of disgust with Bush & McBush.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
14. Sorry, but Obama is not qualified to be Vice President of the United States.
Edited on Wed May-28-08 12:43 PM by Perry Logan
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. At this point that's completely immaterial.
There have not been many people who were qualified when they became president, and some who were extremely well qualified turned out to be terrible presidents.

Given the fact that Obama is the Democratic nominee, I want him to win in November. To that end I'm stating my opinion that Hillary would be a disaster as a running mate for him.

If you think that McCain would make a better pres than Obama, you're perfectly free to support him, but not on this site.
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
16. After her "assassination" reference, this thought is particularly chilling ...
"Imagine her continually undermining him and stabbing him in the back because what she REALLY wants is to run again in 2012."
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
17. Her campaign should make her ineligible to hold public office. Period.
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Shae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
18. appoint her as sec of HHS nt
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
19. Mentally Unfit Would Be Posting The Above Drivel.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Oh, I'm definitely mentally unfit.
But then, I'm not angling to be anyone's running mate. :)
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
20. I agree. I could never accept Obama as Hillary's VP.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
21. lol nt
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
22. Hillary Clinton simply is not mentally fit
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
23. Agreed, never in a million years
would you want her saying, 'hey Barack, don't worry I've got your back?'

Hell NO. :thumbsdown:
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papapi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
24. An amusing scenario, nothing more. She'll fade, he'll brighten. DNC will see to that.
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invictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
26. K & R
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
27. totally agree
no Hi-liar-y. She brings only negatives because the GOPers would come out in droves just to vote against her.
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grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
28. Biggest reason why not? Because every time Pres. Obama stepped away from his desk
for five minutes he'd come back to find both Bill and Hillary fighting over his seat. Combined, they'd be the world's worst back-seat presidents.
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StevieM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
29. The only point to these posts is to "deny" Hillary the VP spot. Hillary and Barack don't want to be
on a ticket together and that's all there is to it. I think Hillary would like to be asked, and she should be. There is no precedent in American history for a candidate who got as many votes and delegates as Hillary not even being considered. And spare me the response about all the terrible things Hillary has done--she has taken it easy on him as far as I'm concerned. And most of the accusations against her were unfair, as Obama will effectively admit every time he campaigns with her. If she is a race-baiter then he cannot stand next to her. And, like it or not, Obama isn't winning without her support.

I do think he should select a woman, maybe Maria Cantwell.

Steve
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. "I think Hillary would like to be asked, and she should be" - This has been the problem all along:
the complete, utter sense of entitlement HRC and her supporters strut about with; the in-your-face "you owe me" attitude.

Here's a little hint: such an attitude doesn't win yah many friends, or influence all that many people (to paraphrase Dale).
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StevieM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. She has never had a sense of entitlement, that was an Obama smear. He couldn't win on the issues
so he resorted to the politics of personal destruction.

I am not sure how it is a sense of entitlement to want a nice gesture that you would appreciate.

And it is extremely common for a candidate who has gotten as many votes as Hillary to expect gestures of respect. The Obama people think she will fall into line like a good little woman--they may be disappointed. At which point they will scramble to reach terms that bring her on board as a leading advocate--which I suspect will leave you very disappointed.

Steve
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PatGund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. And what colour is the sky on YOUR planet???
Sen. Clinton's problem from day one was she had a horrible and very visible sense of entitlement. From her famous "I WILL be the nominee" interview, to ignoring Florida and Michigan originally because they "wouldn't count", to the campaign claiming it would be all over by Super Tuesday.

The only way someone could NOT say she "never had a sense of entitlement" is willfully ignoring reality, or having their head so far up Sen. Clinton's colon that they can tell what she had for breakfast by smell and taste alone.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. "The Obama people think she will fall into line like a good little woman"
Edited on Thu May-29-08 12:16 AM by Crunchy Frog
Oh, I don't think many Obama people are laboring under that illusion, thank you so much. But really, it's not about being a good little woman, it's about acting like an adult, and I don't think anyone expects it of her. That's what adult party members do when they have a nominee, they unite behind them. But you're absolutely right about Hillary on that score, though you still think that somehow entitles her to be asked to be his running mate. :rofl:
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
30. "But I won't be ignored, Dan...."
K & R. :thumbsup:
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trickyguy Donating Member (461 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
31. Get that woman outa my face. She's a mess.
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
33. Senator Clinton is good insurance.
Whether Senator Clinton knows it or not (and her recent remarks suggest she might know more than she lets on) she's doing yeoman's work as assassination insurance for the Big O. She's doing the exact same thing Dan Quayle and Dick Cheney have done: positioning herself as an even worse alternative (from the psycho's point of view), thus ensuring that the people who can't stand the #1 person aren't tempted to do something batshit crazy.

Whether or not that qualifies her to be a running mate is an entirely different question.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. Unless, of course, she's the psycho. I really wouldn't trust her that close
to President Obama.
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Heh. There's that, too.
You wouldn't happen to be the same Crunchy Frog from the old SDMB, would you? If so, I'll have to give a little extra weight to your opinion!
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. No, sorry. I don't even know what the old SDMB is.
My opinions should be held in pretty low esteem anyway. :)
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Oh, I don't know about that!
You've placed an opinion out there for the thinking world to tear apart, and defended it with examples and logic. That in itself makes it an opinion worth noting, whether or not one agrees with it.

And it was a pleasure to read. I hope you keep spouting off, 'cause I'll keep reading.
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