Hillary is a lawyer she signed a contract

[barack the house]

Can she be disbarred for breaching a contract. DNC are having their arm forced they should take it to court really. The contract was signed to agree that FL and MI wouldn't count before it was even known it was close. AS a lawyer she should honor contracts. There is no decapitation, no smudging just an enforcement of DNC rules. As a lawyer works within the confines of laws.

[TahitiNut]

1. No. Damages for breach of contract cannot exceed demonstrable loss based on reliance.

IANAL :shrug:

[barack the house]

3. Of all people though a lawyer should honor a contract.

[rinsd]

9. You seem unaware of what the pledge actually was so how can you argue this point?

[anigbrowl]

2. It's not a contract as such. I it was it would be 50 pages long.

[barack the house]

5. A lawyer is really ultimately governed by laws and rules,this is just enforcing of rules the virtual

law of the DNC. America a nation of laws, is how the DNC should define this.

[Cali_Democrat]

4. I think it was a pledge to not campaign in those states

I don't think there was anything in the contract that said they wouldn't count. Am I wrong? :shrug:

[barack the house]

6. Don't know what the details were I assumed it would say not campaign as they are

excluded form the primary. Sorry if I have jumped to a wrong conclusion. :hide:

[rinsd]

8. I don't know the details but I will make a legalistic sounding argument!

:rofl:

[AZ Criminal JD]

7. No you are not wrong. There was no "contract".

[rinsd]

10. The OP is referring to the pledge and calling it a contract.

Even funnier the OP is apparently mad at Hillary for breaking this contract even though the OP is unaware of the details of said contract.

[barack the house]

12. A contract is an agreement, so in what way was it not an agreement.

[NeedleCast]

13. So What You're Saying is

That Hillary is not guilty of breaking a contract. She's just not going to honor a pledge she signed.

Yeah, that's much better....

[rinsd]

17. I am saying neither.

The pledge was not to campaign in those states. She didn't.

She stated previously that the states would not count towards the nomination and has now reversed herself on that. Shocking that a politician would change their mind about something according to their political position I know.

that said, I disagree with her seeking to seat these delegations as a means of choosing the nominee. I have said repeatedly that the delegates shoul dbe seated by the nominee (after that has been decided) or split 50/50 of pledged delegates with none of the Supers from either state allowed to vote. Punish the party leaders that created the mess vs the voters.

But these made up arguments (she broke a contract, the DNC requested candidates remove their names etc) about her grow tiresome.

[NeedleCast]

24. I gotcha now

She just made a statement then reversed it when it became clear that she would lose without Florida and Michigan. Well, that's just the height of sincerity. Hey Michigan and Florida, you don't count unless it'll help me win! You're right, that's politicians for ya. Glad I'm not going to have to vote for one like that in the general.

I don't care about the argument so much as the underlying smell of politics as usual. Reversing a position on something when it is expedient to do so is something I expect from Republicans.

[TahitiNut]

26. Why do you keep repeating a falsehood?

You say "The pledge was not to campaign in those states. She didn't."

That's a falsehood and you've been corrected many times.

The pledge was to not "campaign or participate" in any state's primary scheduled ahead of the approved date.

She "participated" by putting her name on the Michigan ballot and leaving it on the ballot when she ccould have had it removed, as FIVE other candidates did (where Kucinich messed up the paperwork).

This is a FACT.

[barack the house]

11. Ok ...

Her campaign was nevertheless aware what the rules were especially McAuliffe former DNC chair. Surely in running there is an agreement to DNC ruling.

[barack the house]

14. If she agreed not to campaign there it would clearly show she formerly agred to the ruling.

[rinsd]

19. How about you familairize yourself with the pledge before you post your opinions on it?

There are 3 versions floating about but this is the one the candidates signed (this is from Bill Richardson;s site)

Four State Pledge Letter 2008
Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina
August 31, 2007

WHEREAS, over a year ago, the Democratic National Committee established a 2008 nominating calendar;

WHEREAS, this calendar honors the racial, ethnic, economic and geographic diversity of our party and our country;

WHEREAS, the DNC also honored the traditional role of retail politics early in the nominating process, to ensure that money alone will not determine our presidential nominee;

WHEREAS, it is the desire of Presidential campaigns, the DNC, the states and the American people to bring finality, predictability and common sense to the nominating calendar.

THEREFORE, I Bill Richardson, Democratic Candidate for President, pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as "campaigning" is defined by the rules and regulations of the DNC. It does not include activities specifically related to raising campaign resources such as fundraising events or the hiring of fundraising staff.
Democratic Candidate for President

___8/31/07_______
DATE

[Bluerthanblue]

25. I'm not so sure that it didn't include the concequences- read

this-

""WHEREAS, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee will strip states of 100% of their delegatesand super delegates to the DNC National Convention if they violate the nomination calendar.

THEREFORE, I __________ Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with DNC rules, pledge to actively campaign in the pre-approved early states Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina. I pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window (any date prior to February 5, 2008). Campaigning shall include but is not limited to purchasing media or campaign advocacy of any kind, attending or hosting events of more than 200 people to promote one’s candidacy for a preference primary and employing staff in the state in question. It does not include activities specifically related to raising campaign resources such as fundraising events or the hiring of fundraising staff."


:shrug:

not a contract, but a written agreement. Judge Judy would hold her liable. :evilgrin:

[quaker bill]

28. campaign or "participate" in

To use lawyerly language (as they are all lawyers), when one "participates" in a class action suit, it entitles you to a share of the proceeds if damages are awarded. The pledge barred both campaigning and participation. Participation in the lawyerly sense (and Wesbster's sense) also means to "knowingly allow yourself to derive benefit from" an activity. Counting these votes for any candidate who is a party to the pledge is their "participation".

For those others so mislead, under law, a "contract" can be as simple as a handshake agreement. The pledge certainly qualifies as a contract. The contract prohibits "participation" which reasonably can be construed in "plain english construction" as "counting" the votes to gain delegates.

By the way, the votes were counted. The totals may be found on CNN and MSNBC. They are not hidden in a box somewhere. The question at hand is not whether to "count" the votes, but whether the votes earn convention delegates. No one prevented anyone legally registered from voting in FL (this time), I know because I went to the polls and did so. I am quite sure that my vote was counted. I am also quite clear that because of the Florida Democratic Party's screw up, my vote, which was legally submitted and properly counted, should result in no convention delegates, exactly as I was informed it would before I cast it.

It is a shame that a number of Clinton supporters in the FL Dems tossed our votes over the rail in an attempt to gain more power and influence. It is more of a shame that if they had simply left the damn primary alone, our votes might have made a critical difference at the very moment when Hillary was losing contest after contest. But as Forrest said: "stupid is as stupid does - sir".

[undeterred]

15. The Clintons like to make up their own rules as they go along

Bill and Hillary are both lawyers who think they are above the law. Do they have any more respect for 'playing by the rules' than Bush does? We'll soon see.

[Bensthename]

16. Nah, but they will through it in her face during this DNC meeting..

And she will not get what she wants..

[dbmk]

18. The pledge was not to campaign and participate

As far as them not counting, it was a pure DNC RB&C decision to strip them of their delegates. Hillary didn't have to/couldn't agree or not agree to that. That was the rules.
The pledge was just an agreement to act accordingly out of respect to the other states whose positions were being upheld.

[Lerrad]

20. It was not a contract, it was an oath. n/t

[quaker bill]

29. actually both an oath and a contract

contracts do not need to be all that complex. A simple handshake will do, legally that is. The pledge is more than sufficient to stand as a contract.

[Lerrad]

33. Yes you are probably correct...

... now that I think about it. A pledge, oath, contract would all be the same thing, and it was signed, which is better than a simple hand shake.

[Life Long Dem]

21. Hillary supporters can hang with her but...

there is an increasing amount of democrats in the Democratic party that want her stopped.

I'll say this now for all Clinton supporters. If she drags this out till the convention and does her damage at the convention. Knowing full well she won't win against rules already in place. With the increasing number of Democrats wanting to boot her out of the convention. She is not going to have a party to come back to.

You need to jump in and save the nominee from anymore damage you yourself would rather not see as a Democrat, OR you yourself 'had and have' no intention of staying with the Democratic party in the first place.

[AZ Criminal JD]

30. Do you really think DU is reflective of the Democratic party?

If you do, you need to get a grip on reality before it is too late. No one is getting kicked out of the convention no matter what you wish.

[Life Long Dem]

35. Yes I do.

[rinsd]

36. I certainly hope it does not.

Vicious, mindless partisans who delight in insulting their candidate's opponent is not what the Democratic party should be about.

[Mooney]

22. This is the same reason that I never bought the excuse

that she was "duped" into voting for the IWR, and that she had NO CLUE that W would use it to go to war. Hillary Clinton is a lawyer by trade, which means that she has years and years under her belt of deciphering multi=page written contracts with 85 subclauses. If she was a lawyer worth even half her salt she would have seen the IWR for what it was, and she probably did.

The level of rule-bending and loophole-finding that she's done trying to find any technicality that will get her to the nomination certainly bears out her lawyerly bona fides.

[Clear Blue Sky]

23. That was then. This is now...

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

27. Uhhh, the fact that she's a lawyer explains why she need not abide by a contract.

Because she's a lawyer. How's that for a tautology.

[AZ Criminal JD]

31. No contract.

There was nothing bargained for.

[aikoaiko]

32. A contract has specific criteria which includes consideration

[Swamp Rat]

34. Hillary failed the Washington D.C. bar exam, but passed the one in Arkansas .

Maybe all contracts in Arkansas are flexible.