She signed the pledge. Period.

[cyberpj]

I'm not really hearing much about that on TV yet.

snip-

"THEREFORE, I (Hillary Clinton), Democratic Candidate for President, pledge
I shall not campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential
election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa,
Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as “campaigning” is defined by
rules and regulations of the DNC."

[izquierdista]

1. But how about "participate"?

Does the DNC have a rule or regulation defining the word "participate"? Gotcha!!

[rateyes]

4. Leaving one's name on the ballot would be

participating in that election.

[izquierdista]

7. You say participate

I'm sure that she would say "innocently pre-qualifying for a spot on a hypothetical later ballot that was fully compliant with the rules".

[cyberpj]

10. I've said that all along. Dean should have fined her for that at the time. nt

[rinsd]

27. The DNC has nothing to do with the 4 state pledge.

If Dean wants to fine someone for campaigning, he can fine Obama for TV ads in FL & radio ads in MI.

[cyberpj]

28. How can you say that? Word for word -"the pledge to adhere to the DNC approved nominating calendar"

On Sept. 1 2007, she accepted and signed the DNC rules barring any other states having a primary earlier than the specified date.

DNC Chairman Howard Dean
Letter to Democratic Presidential Candidates
August 31, 2007

As the leader of the Democratic Party, I strongly urge you to adhere to the 2008 Delegate Selection Rules...
The 2008 Delegate Selection Rules adopted by the full DNC at its August 2006 meeting clearly provide that only 4 states - Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina - may hold their respective contests prior to February 5, 2008. The findings of Non-Compliance included a 100% loss of pledged and unpledged delegates.

===========================
Hillary Clinton Campaign
September 1, 2007

Clinton Campaign Statement On The Four State Pledge

We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process. And we believe the DNC's rules and its calendar provide the necessary structure to respect and honor that role. Thus we will be signing the pledge to adhere to the DNC approved nominating calendar.

[rinsd]

40. The 4 state pledge was circulated by the respective state Democratic parties, not the DNC.

You are mixing up a posted letter by Dean and the pledge asked by the 4 state Dem parties.

When Obama wanted to run ads in FL as part of a national ad buy, he sought the permission of the SC Dem party, not the DNC.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/8019.html

[rinsd]

25. So would having your surrogates run radio ads urging your supporters to vote a certain way

[Drunken Irishman]

11. Why did she sign this if she didn't agree with it?

Where was Hill from February until prior to the first vote being cast in January? I don't recall her EVER questioning this policy, until he became clear she was going to lose and needed support.

Face it, Hill only supports this for her OWN good, she doesn't care about those voters in Florida or Michigan and it's disingenuous of her to say otherwise.

[rateyes]

2. Don't forget what she is saying to "pledged" delegates...

"Your word doesn't matter. Break your pledge."

[DJ13]

3. "Like taxes, contracts and agreements are for the little people"

-signed, Leona Clinton.

[TheDoorbellRang]

5. Did you just say "period"? You sexist, you

And you also just said "pledge." I suppose next you'll be saying "dust my furniture!"

:sarcasm:

[cyberpj]

9. Thanks. At least someone found a way to make me laugh today.

:hi:

ps - I also said signed... do you think the deaf voters will resent me?

[BuyingThyme]

6. Funny thing: After she finished her speech in Florida (just now),

the CNN anchor came on and said she was making the case for counting the Florida votes because it would be to her advantage. He was saying it an a totally objective, professional, tone; but the funny part is that Hillary had just made her big, big, stinking liar case that the votes should be counted for more noble reasons having to do with the survival of democracy or something.

It's impossible for objective people not to side against Hillary.

[cyberpj]

12. And did you notice she also now includes a plea for action on verified voting - to legitimize her

latest rah-rah democracy stance to count all votes?

I'm a women.
I started this campaign for Hillary.
Now I think she's set the women's movement BACK with her actions.
People who used to respect her now consider her an annoying shrew and will fear more women in politics.

[BuyingThyme]

13. What is her plea for action on verified voting?

Verified voting as in voter IDs?

[cyberpj]

24. What she said to confuse verified voting issues with counting Florida votes:

snip -

"Because I think it is appalling that in the 21st century, voters are still being wrongly turned away from the polls, ballots are still mysteriously lost in state after state, African-American and Hispanic voters still wait in line for hours while voters in the same state, even in the same county can wait just minutes to cast their votes. That’s why I’ve been working since 2004 with my dear friend Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones to pass the Count Every Vote Act; comprehensive voting rights legislation designed to end these deplorable violations. It will ensure that every eligible voter can vote, every vote is counted, and every vote can verify his or her vote before it is finally cast."

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/speech/view/?id=7793

[DeschutesRiver]

14. I agree that

it is about time someone on the air called this for what it is. It is scary to watch someone behave with this much naked ambition and make blatant self serving statements, yet not get called on it most of the time. I am also surprised that many americans have either suspended their reasoning ability or don't have it in the first place (which describes a certain group of Hill's core voters).

Hillary agreed not to participate. It was the end of story the minute she signed and agreed to it. So she has no claim to votes/delegates from something she didn't participate in, because the votes were not intended to be counted toward allocating a delegate total for those states.

If the DNC chooses to reduce the penalty to these states for rule breaking, in the interest of the voters who were screwed by their own states, then fine. But the "windfall" of votes, etc, obtained by Hillary's rule breaking decision to participate by leaving her name on the ballot won't go to that rule breaker Hillary either. The end result should not allow her to gain any advantage from counting seats/delegates, because she only got votes by being a flipping cheat about it.

[cyberpj]

17. Can you imagine the pressure her DLC pals are putting on Dean right now? Shes agitating those voters

so they'll start protesting --as if she cares about them. The bottom line question is - would she be doing this if she was ahead now? The answer is obvious.

[yodermon]

8. I see that "campaign" is distinct from "participate"

Someone should as Hillary: what did you mean by "participate"? You signed it after all.

[NJmaverick]

15. You forget, her word doesn't mean a thing

At least that is the message she is sending people.

[eleny]

16. And to be parsing any of that is a low blow to the electorate

[K Gardner]

18. She's a cheap, opportunistic liar. This should surprise no one at this point.

[Bensthename]

19. This is not about getting the votes, its about getting McCain elected...

Can she do it for her big come back in 2012? We shall see.

[Warren DeMontague]

20. Or how about this: "The rules are the rules"- Terry McAuliffe, 2003

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/25/165935/668

"Carl, take it to the bank," I said. "They will not get a credential. The closest they'll get to Boston will be watching it on television. I will not let you break this entire nominating process for one state."

[cyberpj]

22. Excellent. Hope Olbermann gets that one to broadcast soon. Thanks. nt.

[pdxmom]

21. Ready on Day One. And willing to completely flip-flop on Day Two. N/T

[book_worm]

23. How come Hillary and Bill weren't this outspoken about Florida counting in 2000?

when he was president and he could have put the moral pulpit of his office behind that issue.

[TexasObserver]

26. We know she's a fraud. She knows she's a fraud. But the ignorant don't know.

[Lerrad]

29. Once a lier always a Lier.....

I have a bumper sticker on the back of my truck window that has been here since about 2004. IT will be removed when Bush leaves office in January.

The bumper sticker says: "Bush Lied!"
It will be replaced with: :Hillary Lies!"

[cyberpj]

31. It's liar darlin'. But wait... There's MORE....... (info, that is)

On Sept. 1 2007, she accepted and signed the DNC rules barring any other states having a primary earlier than the specified date.

DNC Chairman Howard Dean
Letter to Democratic Presidential Candidates
August 31, 2007

As the leader of the Democratic Party, I strongly urge you to adhere to the 2008 Delegate Selection Rules...
The 2008 Delegate Selection Rules adopted by the full DNC at its August 2006 meeting clearly provide that only 4 states - Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina - may hold their respective contests prior to February 5, 2008. The findings of Non-Compliance included a 100% loss of pledged and unpledged delegates.

===========================
Hillary Clinton Campaign
September 1, 2007

Clinton Campaign Statement On The Four State Pledge

We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process. And we believe the DNC's rules and its calendar provide the necessary structure to respect and honor that role. Thus we will be signing the pledge to adhere to the DNC approved nominating calendar.

[jsmirman]

34. Signed the pledge AND pandered with the "respect for the unique place" memo

when SHE THOUGHT SHE COULD WIN IN IOWA. She fucking pandered to them in crystal clear words. When she thought she wouldn't need Michigan and Florida and when she thought she was better served BY PANDERING TO IOWA AND NEW HAMPSHIRE.

She also hates caucusing, which is too complicated and disenfranchising, despite her glorifying "the wonderful tradition of caucusing" and creating a cute little campaign video called "Caucusing is Easy."

She's just a fucking scumbag liar.

[MonkeyFunk]

30. Yes she did

and she didn't break the pledge.

Obama did, though, by running commercials in florida.

[cyberpj]

32. I heard he was simply smart enough to pay for National ad campaigns instead of state by state

and a National ad campaign would have, naturally, included all states.

[MonkeyFunk]

36. and all other candidates managed to avoid doing that

nonetheless, you can give him an excuse, but he still broke the pledge.

[Median Democrat]

35. Would You Agree That She Is Violating It Now ?

By campaigning for the primary votes to count. I have no problem if Hillary is campaigning for the general election. That's her right, as well as Obama's. However, Hillary now agitating for the DNC to change how Florida and Michigan's votes should be counted sounds unethical to me.

Also, what is wrong with a 50/50 split? Florida and Michigan violated the rules, and changing them now after the fact, rewards them for doing so.

Finally, do you have a link to proof that Barack violated the pledge? Or, are you referring to commercials that appeared on national television channels or commercials that were specifically appear only in Florida and Michigan?

[MonkeyFunk]

37. No

Nothing in the pledge states they wouldn't try to change the penalties at a later date.

The fact is, if Obama had won either state, he'd be trying to seat them. No doubt in my mind. This is politics.

[Median Democrat]

39. That is a cop out.

This is what annoys me. Its a cop out:

"This is politics." "Obama would have done the same."

Leadership requires integrity. After 8 years of Bush, I would hope that we get away from an ends-jusitifies-the-means approach to the Presidency. The invasion of Iraq to capture its oil is probably the greatest example of saying anything to justify a particular result. Saying "this is politics" opens the door to the types of abuses of power that I would like to see end.

* * *
MonkeyFunk wrote:

"Nothing in the pledge states they wouldn't try to change the penalties at a later date.

The fact is, if Obama had won either state, he'd be trying to seat them. No doubt in my mind. This is politics."

[jsmirman]

38. Not commercials- don't be a LIAR.

He ran a single ad AND he cleared it with the party before he made the national buy.

[rinsd]

41. He cleared it with the SC Dem party not the DNC .

And it shows how his removal of his name from the ballot in MI was a political stunt aimed at kissing IA ass..

Before IA, he couldn't even APPEAR on the ballot in MI.

After IA, he CAMPAIGNED by running TV ads in FL for several days prior to their election.

[Terri S]

33. This should have been the end of the conversation

Truly, if you can't count on a candidate to be true to their word, what makes anyone think they can trust anything they say. What makes anyone think they can trust her to carry through on anything she says she will do once in office? Changing with the political wind is the main problem I've always had with Hillary Clinton. Lack of integrity is simply not a leadership quality in my book.

[OzarkDem]

42. The pledge only applied to campaigning, not to counting votes

Try to be a little bit fair and balanced.