I sure hope Kerry can respond quickly to the "Cambodia" issue raised

[lottie244]

by the Swiftboaters for Bush. Some very damning information that Kerry must either refute, explain, or fess up.

[Bluebear]

1. What 'damning information' would that be?

[Catch22Dem]

2. Kerry should do no such thing

The WORST thing Kerry can do is respond to these freeper assholes. If he were to respond, it would only validate their argument. The burden of proof is on the swiftboat freepers. Kerry doesn't have to offer up proof for ANYTHING. If that's the way things worked, I could say Bush needs to respond quickly to my charge that he blows Cheney nightly. Come on, prove he doesn't!

[NightOwwl]

5. Bwahaha!

I was going to say we could accuse Bush of being a quasi-murderer (thanks Paul Krugman ;-)), but that would actually be telling the truth.

[madmax]

3. No he shouldn't. n/t

[madmax]

4. dupe

[tom22]

8. I can shed some light on it.

Kerry was in a firefight near but not over the Cambodian border on Dec. 24 1968. he probably was wrong in saying he was in Cambodia that night. A couple of months later he was on another PCF-97 whose mission was to transport Navy Seals to infiltrate (at night along an undemarcated border) into Cambodia, Very close and probably sometimes over the border. On many occasions on the river patrol he could see into Cambodia. The three crew mates mentioned I believe are vocal supporters of Kerry they all were on PCF44. He never received orders to penetrate Cambodia but incursions by the Swift boats were regular occurrences at the time. he may not have been confused between firefights. He was in one virtually every day. But Kerry regularly patrolled at the border and probably did spend some time on PCF 97 occasionally over the border.

[Sparkly]

17. Not that it matters, but he isn't necessarily "wrong" here

After the Tet offensive, the US got pretty defensive (which is to say offensive) and went after North Vietnamese bases in Cambodia. As with so much in Vietnam, it was revealed for all to see later that the government had lied, and as I recall Johnson did a rose garden lie about that in 1968. Of course, later we actually bombed Cambodia and there's no hiding that, but as early as 1968 the navy was following the canals across the border, I believe.

Do I believe a vet who was there, or the government that lied so much through those years (or a bunch of rightwing nuts who still contend the government didn't lie, we could have "won" if only there weren't protestors at home, and there were never any atrocities committed, etc.)?

But as someone posted below, it's just a silly attempt at "gotcha" at this point.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

6. Oh, please! What "damning" evidence do any of those idiots have?

[salib]

7. Everyone

Do not even respond to this. This is such a set-up. Don't give lottie244 the satisfaction. Right?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. Are You Thinking What I'm Thinking

<wink>

[Mad As Hell]

10. Yes I am.

This is the third or fourth time this item has been posted today, always framed in the same way. As if ...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. We Must Be Careful Because It Is A Violation Of DU Rules To Call Someone A

Freeper but there are infiltrators even high post infiltrators who come and stay in under the radar....


They are a truly transparent bunch....

[Proud liberal Kat]

12. OK I feel silly

I've been reading this board since the Convention and just got a user account today...I keep hearing the word "Freeper" I know it refers to Bush Supporters, conservatives...but where exactly does the word come from?
Kathy

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Freeepers Are Folks Who Post At Free Republic

-:)


welcome aboard -kerrykat

[JI7]

19. a lot of them make empty worthless posts to raise their post numbers

so they could look as if they are a true du member.

i noticed that some of them just spend a lot of time posting replies like "yes" "you think so" ? etc type things to various threads. they are harmless enough without being informative. they do this to raise their post numbers. but they pop up with flame bait every now and then or try to defend the right wing or go after democrats under the cover as a true democrat who thinks the republicans are right on this one.

[SidDithers]

23. Yes

You think so? *grin*

I like to check their "Member since" date. 600 posts in a month is suspicious to me.

Then again, i've taken 2 years to get to 500 :)

Sid

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

22. What, are we not supposed to "finger" people?

Sorry, I don't know how that image got in there! :o

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. Seriously-It's A Violation Of DU Rules...

NT

[blondeatlast]

15. I'm pretty sure I am....

;)

[lottie244]

44. Hey, whoa!!! It seems that I am under attack by fellow DUers.

Instead of attacking the messenger like the Rethugs do, pay attention to the message. I am asking the Kerry campaign to prepare a solid response to the accusations of Kerry attackers. To be forewarned is to be forearmed. I just want our side to be ready with rapid, smart, and solid responses so that the voting public can understand.

Sorry if I offended anyone. What action would those who have been offended by my comments suggest?

[Myrina]

46. Lottie

You should know better by now than to step out of line. The DU sheeple just don't like it when anyone on 'our side' questions the candidate - even rhetorically. It shorts out a fuse. Groupthink happens here too, ya know.

It goes a lil somethin' like this: Only trolls could possibly question anything Kerry has ever said or done, so therefore, (by the flawed logic of the DU sheeple brigade) you must be a troll. :wtf:

Disengage your critical thinking skills, get back in line and everything will be fine.


:evilgrin:



M.

[Generator]

14. Here's something for you to ponder

What Kerry is going to do in Iraq in 2005, what Kerry is going to do to the economoy in 2005, might just possibly be more important than Christmas in Cambodia in 1968.

Nobody but freaky haters care. Nobody. Nobody.

Kerry is going to ignore this crap as is all the rest of the country but the freaky haters.

Freaky haters are a bore. They are obsessed with Cambodia of December 1968. Do you think many people in this country even know where Cambodia is?

However, they have some idea where Iraq is. Because their husband or their cousin is there.

They are living in the present. It's really easy to do if you aren't a freaky hater.

[salib]

16. huh?

[noamnety]

18. this is already debunked

with the help of another post here, I added the debunk to my site.

http://ideamouth.com/swift.htm#upset

[jhml]

27. debunking isn't quite right

I think the cited "debunking" is wrong.

O'Neills book says Kerry was transferred in December from An Thoi (The base for the more southern operating area) to Cat Lo (the base for the more northern operating area that includes Sa Dec),

Since "Tour of Duty" the book that Brinkley wrote and that Kerry provided the info for also mentions the transfer and places him at Sa Dec on Christmas 1968, and so does Kerry's journal, I suspect that O'neill's book is right about this detail.The table in the "debunking" just isn't right on when Kerry transferred (for one thing it has him in Vietnam too long).

I have repeatedly suggested that the best thing thing here for the Kerry campaign is to just move on. The Swifties would have minimal impact if the Kerry campaign just ignored them.
By contesting everything (1) there are likely to be "palpable hits" on credibility since O'Neill's book, regardless of the accuracy of its conclusions seems well researched and accurate on detail (2) the "fight" just draws attention to the charges and (3) the media will reluctantly become more and more involved. Push hard enough and Kerry risks taking a catastrophic hit. Better to just move on.

[oasis]

20. "Swiftboaters for Bush"?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

21. Know this:

I have this friend, Nam vet. Just as burned-out and damaged by that shit-for-nothing war as anyone can be. He left the best part of himself in Nam. What came back was not enough to survive unaided in this society. He almost killed himself. He now lives in a supportive environment and is doing very well. But he will never again be able to live on his own.

But he remembers. Oh yes, he remembers everything, which is the source of his problem.

We talked about it. He wanted to. He was a Combat Engy. Did lots of very hairy things in very hairy ways. A little known fact is that the engys tend to be deployed on the tip of the spear. Right up front.

He told me that MANY TIMES, he operated in Cambodia. Many times. Regularly, even. For all the sturm und drang over here, regarding Cambodia soveriegnty, when it was time to cross the border it was boots and saddles, off they went without a care in the world.

Right across the border.

It happened all the time, and not just his unit.

Them's the facts, relayed by a guy who has been there, done that and paid a price too awful to contemplate.

Don't listen to these ambulatory fecal masses. They know NOTHING. They are clueless and unethical in the extreme. Human garbage, who will happily discard all those who served in an insane war and paid prices, both physical and mental, that the scum cannot begin to contemplate. Weasels, assholes, REMFs and human wastes, one and all.

</rant>

[Bernardo de La Paz]

38. Know This Too

The North Vietnamese and Viet Cong operated in Cambodia, too.

Part of the Ho Chi Minh Trail went through Cambodia. Did they ask the Cambondian's permission? I doubt it.

Doesn't excuse what Nixon did in Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos.

[Leilani]

24. We know a hell of a lot more about where Kerry was

than where Bush was during the war....I want to know where Bush was.

Kerry has witnesses...does Bush?

[Suzi Creamcheese]

25. So what. Nobody cares about this

Where was Kerry in 1968, what difference does that make. It's just another Republican trick to try and nitpick us to death.

[Jackpine Radical]

26. Well, in defense of Pres. Bush,

nobody can claim HE was in Cambodia in 1968. Or that he faked a Purple Heart. Or that he didn't earn his Silver Star. Or that he only spent 4 months of his second tour in-country.

What's not to like about a guy like that?

[SomeFellah]

28. It seems to me....

...that if you criticize Bush for aspects of his service 35 years ago (when he has never suggested it was an important aspect of his qualifications for the Presidency) then it is only fair to criticize Kerry if it turns out he has lied about aspects of his service (which he consistently claims qualifies him for the Presidency). People criticize Bush's military service because they think the fact that he hasn't accounted for where he was the whole time is a reflection on his character, and that that matters. Shouldn't a reasonable person who believes that this sort of character issue matters, also agree that to be consistent, it is only fair to examine whether the facts of Kerry's service reveal anything derogatory about his character? And, if he has made statements about his service that are demonstrably false, doesn't that say something about his character in the same way that the critique of Bush's service does?

If you disagree, I'd ask whether you are actually interested in an honest, honorable campaign where no truth is off-limits, or whether you are as bad as the people you criticize because you are willing to wink at your candidate's weaknesses while you castigate your opponent for the very same thing? "The ends justify the means" -- is that your motto?

[SidDithers]

29. demonstrably false?

demonstrate away....

Sid

[Bernardo de La Paz]

39. When you put it that starkly, it carries a lot of freight

Jackpine Radical writes:

Nobody can claim Bush was in Cambodia in 1968. Or that he faked a Purple Heart. Or that he didn't earn his Silver Star. Or that he only spent four months of his second tour in-country.

When you put it that starkly, it carries a lot of freight. Well said.

[Snoggera]

30. I hope people stop

repeating rw lies/innuendos and manipulation of thought.

Will my hopes be answered with truth?

[SidDithers]

31. I doubt it...

but it's a nice dream :)

Sid

[noamnety]

32. oh brother.

debunkings would be easier if the story didn't keep shifting. He was never within 50 miles of cambodia, he was within 50 miles but not on that day ...

If they tell the story enough different ways, I guess some part of it will be true, just the law of averages.

[Scorpious_Maximus]

33. Why??

:wtf:


Kerry doesn't have to say a damn thing.


The SwiftVets have been exposed and debunked for the Freeptard organization they are.

Paying attention to them makes them credible.

[Fridays Child]

34. Let's see...how far is Alabama from Cambodia?

Hmm....

[NV1962]

35. already debunked - all hail Girl Gone Mad!

see her post here (I just kicked the topic up again)

[sandnsea]

36. hit and run

Geez people, don't you recognize disruptors by now?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. What's The Point....

They get tombstoned and then folks say what a dumbass they were...

[Bernardo de La Paz]

37. There is a limit of how many different things Kerry should respond to.

Perhaps this one is one that Kerry should let sink along with the Swift Kick Boat Vets.

In some board games, the other player can sometimes trap you into "following the opponent around". If you avoid this, you get to make bigger moves elsewhere.

[yelladawg]

42. If Kerry did half

If Kerry did half of what the chickenhawks accuse him of, he is still something bush isn't, a Veteran.

[union_maid]

43. I'm not too worried

Smears don't stick to Kerry, and for the best of reasons. He's not Teflon-man like some of our presidents. He's a good man, as honest as a politician is able to be and he's strong. The smears go away and he's still standing.

[lottie244]

45. Hey, Whoa!! It seems that I am under attack by fellow DUers

Instead of attacking the messenger like the Rethugs do, pay attention to the message. I am asking the Kerry campaign to prepare a solid response to the accusations of Kerry attackers. To be forewarned is to be forearmed. I just want our side to be ready with rapid, smart, and solid responses so that the voting public can understand.

Sorry if I offended anyone. What action would those who have been offended by my comments suggest?

(mods, i wanted to change the location of this message but didn't know how to do it other than repeat it. Please remove the dupe above.)