Is the Bush Nightmare causing the intensity of our internal fight?

[JMDEM]

I'm not addressing the candidates themselves, but rather their supporters on DU.

Has the 8 year nightmare of the Bush Administration caused the intensity of the infighting at DU and other Democratic-oriented blogs?

Hillary supporters -- if you KNEW that Obama would win and end this nightmare, would you be so opposed to him? Conversely, Obama supporters -- would you feel the same way about Hillary?

So many of the arguments that rage deal with the electability of the candidates. I am beginning to think that each side thinks the other side's candidate is unelectable, and is terrified of being thrown back into the Bush nightmare. And therefore we fight like hell with each other.

The real "enemy" is the Bush nightmare, and we really need to pull the country out of the tailspin it is in.

I don't like Hillary for a number of reasons, but if she WAS elected President, I do think I would feel a great sense of relief, as I would if Obama is elected President. I could live with her. I could live with him. Easily. My first choice was Gore, then Edwards. I was bitterly disappointed when Edwards had to drop out, but I recovered, and started looking at the remaining candidates.

My main fear with Hillary at this point, is, again, that she will blow our chances in November. I think she needs to cease and desist the attacks against Obama for this reason alone. The real reason is the terror of 4 or 8 more years of the Bush Nightmare.

But if some miracle happens in the next few primaries and Hillary somehow pulls out a victory, I would support her to, again, end the nightmare. And I would like to please ask Hillary supporters to do some introspection and look at what they are really afraid of if Obama wins -- and I think they will find it is the same fear that Obama supporters have. One way or another, we have to end this nightmare and get back on safe ground.

[bhikkhu]

1. Yes, and I agree.

8 years of * have taken their toll on all of us, and the notion of a winning candidate is the holy grail to me, at least. Things must change. My main problem with Hillary to begin with was, as you say, the thought that she would simply lose. The cards have been stacked against her for years now, and all the arguments, talking points and general malaise have been scripted for as long. You can't win an election when half the populace hates you before the bell even rings.

My main support of Obama began in Iowa, when he demonstrated that he could win. And it has only increased since then. These days we have a bit of a back and forth between Obama and McCain, where Obama sounds like a President, and McCain sounds like a somewhat confused party hack. The GE is looking good right now, and I am looking forward to it.

[democrattotheend]

2. I actually think it's the opposite

I think part of our problem is that we don't hate McCain enough. With McCain viewed as a moderate and Democrats in solid control of Congress, we don't have the same sense of urgency about defeating him as we had about defeating Bush 4 years ago. I think one of the reasons we coalesced around Kerry so quickly was because we all felt an imperative to beat Bush. Kerry wasn't everyone's first choice but he may have been the only candidate who was acceptable to all factions of the party, a compromise candidate of sorts between the Dean and Lieberman factions. This year, I don't think people feel as urgent about beating McCain and that's part of why some people seem inclined to wait it out 4 years so that their candidate could have another chance. I was always going to vote for Clinton if she got the nomination, but I would be lying if I said that part of me wouldn't have hoped that she would lose so Obama would get another chance. I think that's how many of her supporters feel right now, and the fact that we don't hate McCain enough is contributing to that.

[JMDEM]

3. Hmmm....

Now I can't make up my mind which is correct.

[americanstranger]

4. I said this a few months ago.

George W. Bush has wrecked the collective psyche of this country.

Think about it. We came into his first term traumatized from what happened in Florida. Those of us who were paying attention could not believe that the equivalent of a bloodless coup had taken place in this country, and when we tried to tell those who weren't paying attention what had happened we were laughed at. And instead of healing the rift that the 2000 election created, Bush took advantage of it.

He turned us against one another, and we fought stupid, petty fights while he and his cronies set about robbing us blind. By the time 9/11 happened, he was hated by half this country. And he again took one of the most traumatizing events in this country's history and played it for political advantage.

Our rights were stripped. We were trained to live in a police state and if we didn't like it, tough shit. We've been spied upon, lied to, taken advantage of on every level possible. He took the open wound of 9/11 and gleefully rubbed salt in it, working it in every way possible to drive that wedge deeper and deeper.

He took this country to the point where we don't even trust one another any more.

He wrecked our psyche, plain and simple. And this acrimonious primary is the toxic result.

In my darkest and most vindictive thoughts, there is nothing that I can think of that would be punishment strong or vicious or final or injurious enough for the likes of George W. Bush. If there is a just God, George W. Bush will suffer for every day his miserable life continues on this planet, and there will be grim retribution in the afterlife. And even that won't be enough.

And I hope with all of my heart that no member of the Bush Crime Family will ever hold elected office in this country again. All they do, all they have ever done to this country is divide and wound and destroy everything around them. The levers of power should be denied to them for all eternity.

- as

[Art_from_Ark]

5. I think part of it is that some of us can't get too fired up

about either Hillary or Obama. We're being forced into betting the farm on someone who will be inheriting a gigantic mess but who has not done anything to truly distinguish him/herself as a real leader who can get the job done.

[murielm99]

6. I may sound horribly partisan here

in some of my posts, but mostly I am just defending my choice.

I will take a win by either of them. We can settle for no less. And we all know that there is very little difference between the two of them when you examine their records.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. You have part of the diagnosis to the problem

the other is that both candidates are very close in policy. One has a better health care plan (clinton) the other a better foreign policy. (Obama)

But they are essentially centrists... and their policies are not that different

So people have fallen in love with personalities, and cannot see the greatest danger in McCain.

No matter, once Johnny starts talking and playing, people, I hope, will come back to their senses

[AndyTiedye]

8. It is Because Both are Weak Candidates, and Deep Down We Know It

Either one will have a very tough time beating the "moderate" "maverick" in November.

[Honeycombe8]

9. This strife has existed since 1992. When Clinton won the presidency.

His supporters were at odds with the more liberal wing of the Dem. Party. They did come together when the "Republican Conspiracy" got going against them. Then they split again when the "Republican Conspiracy" ascended the throne in 2000.