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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 11:44 AM
Original message
President Bush and Cocaine
I am doing three days of "Bush-Bashing" at my website. (which means of course that I am criticizing President Bush. All criticisms of President Bush, apparently, are Bush Bashing.)

The first day I am covering his Character; and I wondered if anybody had any more information on the charge that President Bush had used Cocaine. In my mind the evidence rests on two areas; A book by J.H. Hatfield (Fortunate Son) that has been at least partially discredited, and President Bush's own refusal to deny having used cocaine.

Does anybody have anything else?

For the record, i'm not so much interested in whether he did drugs or not, but just in the record President Bush has of screwing up but not being held accountable for his screw ups. '

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. it's WELL KNOWN around Houston at that same time
that he was quite the party boy, and that he SOLD coke, as well as using

how do I know?

I have my sources.......second hand, but reliable

the person who was THERE on many occasions is afraid to talk, as are MANY MANY others

they don't want to end up like Hatfield, unsurprisingly
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AirAmFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
30. Was Dubya's interest in aviation tied in with his drug use?
If he sold drugs, maybe he flew in loads over the border, too.

From http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns...

'"HE DID SOME NIGHT-FLYING AS I RECALL," said Don Ensenat, a Yale classmate who lived with him in Houston. "No alcohol 24 hours before. They had to keep planes on alert all the time." Bush had to be ready to scramble in his F-102 after any flying objects that Air Force radars couldn't figure out. ... Ensenat said he never saw Bush use illegal drugs.

Robert H. Gow, a Yale man who had roomed with the senior Bush's cousin Ray in college and who had been an executive at the senior Bush's Zapata Off-Shore Co.... started Stratford of Texas, a Houston-based agricultural company with diverse interests: from cattle to chickens to indoor, non-blooming tropical plants. "We weren't looking for someone, but I thought this would be a talented guy we should hire, and he was available," Gow said. IN EARLY 1971, GOW GAVE BUSH A JOB AS A MANAGEMENT TRAINEE. HE WAS ... AND DISPATCHED AROUND THE COUNTRY AND EVEN TO CENTRAL AMERICA, LOOKING FOR PLANT NURSERIES THAT STRATFORD MIGHT ACQUIRE."'
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. If you got bad news, you wanna kick them blues
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'm looking for some info I had that * did community service
for a year beacause he was busted for coke and his daddy made a deal with a local judge. Now we all KNOW this sucker never did any community service prior or after this one stint. Hell, he didn't show up for ANG.

I'll try to find it....
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. gee, remember how the media were looking under every BED
in Arkansas, along with Ken Starr?

have they EVER looked into the drug story?

recall how Bush said he wouldn't answer any more questions about drugs?

what was the media response?

remember when Clinton said he didn't inhale?

what was the media response

WHERE the FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF ARE they?

why even bother to ask?
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. The media and so called 'journalists' never vetted the
empty suit. Shame on THEM!!!!

OTOH - I should thank the bastards for the wake up call :P

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bushwakker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
27. The community service angle is the key
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dissention Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
29. Salon.com
It was a big article on Salon.com. I'll try to find it for you. ;)
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. Here's a blast from the past...
Tuesday, September 7, 1999

Bush says people will judge him for his ideas

MANCHESTER, N.H. (AP) Texas Gov. George W. Bush on Monday responded to criticism from the Rev. Jesse Jackson by saying voters will judge him for his ideas, not potential drug use in his past.

People are interested in what I believe. They want to know what I'm going to do in New Hampshire, said Bush, the front-runner for the Republican presidential nomination.

They know I've made mistakes, he said.

Jackson criticized Bush Sunday by saying he had failed to show leadership on the drug issue in a state whose No. 1 growth economy ... is jails, based upon drugs.

Bush arrived at Manchester Airport after a campaign trip to South Carolina. He said Jackson is a liberal Democrat who can be expected to make such remarks.

Bush has said he has not used illegal drugs in the past 25 years, but has refused to say whether he used illegal drugs before that.

http://www.texnews.com/abilene2000/elec/bush0907.html
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Thanks for the link
Bryant
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. More shady 2000 campaign "character" stuff...
Now we learn that Bush was picked up for driving under the influence and has lied about it. Dallas Morning News reporter Wayne Slater writes that Bush replied no when asked in 1998 if, beyond some acknowledged run-ins with the law as a college student in 1968, he had ever been arrested. There is another report that Bush was asked by Texas newsmen in 1996 point blank whether he had ever been arrested for drunk driving, and the governor evaded the question.

The Bush camp denies Slater's claim, but Karen Hughes acknowledges stating in the past that the Texas governor had never been arrested. Hughes insists that she was respecting his wishes to keep the arrest from his daughters. The possibility that Clinton misled investigators about his (non-criminal, but embarrassing) liaison with Lewinsky to prevent his family's finding out the unpleasant truth was never even entertained as a legitimate excuse during the massive probe headed by Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/nov2000/bush-n04.shtm...
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cidliz2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Integrity is an issue
Seeing that you are a "friend AND supporter" of Bush shows that you don't have integrity either.

20 Years ago, Kerry/Vietnam Who is STILL trying to smear Kerry's Vietnam Record??????? You Hippocrates!

20+ Years ago, when Clinton didn't serve in the Military, wasn't your party calling him a DRAFT DODGER??????? You Hippocrates!

20+ Years ago, when Clinton apparently experimented with Pot, didn't your party make a big deal out of that??????? You Hipporates!

20+ Years ago, when John Kerry threw his medals in Protest of the Vietnam War, DOESN'T your party try to smear him on that? You Hippocrates!!!

20+ Years ago, when John Kerry testified about Vietnam, isn't your campaign still talking about that???? You Hippocrates!!!!!!

How many 20+ year old pictures have I seen on Kerry by the Bush campaign to stir up hatred towards what Kerry did 20+ years ago?

If what Kerry did 20+ years ago is on the table for Repukes like you to slander, and distort then why should what Bush did 20+ years ago be "off limits"?

Why is John Kerry's 20+ voting record being poured over if 20 years shouldn't be examined?

Bush is a liar, a dumbass, and dangerous for this country and YOU are supporting him because you are a liar, dumbass and dangerous for this country. THANK GOD - YES GOD - THERE ARE MORE AND MORE PEOPLE WAKING UP TO THE SCUM THAT YOU REALLY ARE.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. And you were on a Swift Boat, too
LOL!!!
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. The Swift Boat Was Next To His Rubber Duckey
NT
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. seven years as his close friend and confidante?
why did you break up?

why should we believe a word you say?

got some corroboration for your claims?

pretty funny stuff, though

do you INSIST, then, that the swift boat veterans do YOUR party a favor and stick to the issues, rather than telling LIES about a man over an incident for which he was awarded the bronze star?

do ya?

huh?

do ya?

and do ya wanna just piss off outa here?
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. You should go back to the freak republic
And prattle on to the rest of the bushbots about your swiftboat BS.

The director of Project PULL is still alive lol
(maybe YOU people better had better roll the words "October Surprise" around on your gums a few times)
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. damn.......they pulled it
did it say something about swift boats?

PLEASE

I hate it when that happens
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. No some crap abut how bush didn't do drugs
Because the bushbot there was a "personal friend of bush"

Talk about a pile of crap
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Cocaine buddies never narc out their pals
Edited on Mon Aug-09-04 12:11 PM by Vickers
*wink wink*
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
9. Bush and Cocaine
http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm#cocaine

"COCAINE:
According to a new book, three independent sources close to the Bush family report that Governor Bush was arrested in 1972 for cocaine possession, and taken to Harris County Jail, but avoided jail or formal charges through an informal diversion plan involving community service with Project P.U.L.L., an inner city Houston program for troubled youths at the Martin Luther King Jr. Community Center in Houston's dirt-poor Third Ward. (In another new book, reporter Bill Minutaglio, writes that the year of community service was arranged by the Governor's father, ex-president Bush, after he caught Bush Jr. driving drunk.)
That year certainly is out of character with the rest of Bush Jr.'s life. Before and after 1972, he was a rich, hard drinking playboy. Suddenly, and only that one time in his life, he worked for a liberal charity in an inner city ghetto. As soon as the year was over, he resumed his previous pattern and has done no charity work since.

The author of this book, J. H. Thompson, has some interesting scandals of his own. Of course, his own flaws don't disprove what Bush did or didn't do, but the way Thompson has responded certainly undercuts his credibility. First, he admitted to a reporter from Slate Magazine that he made up at least one detail, that one of his informants spat tobacco into a styrofoam cup during their (phone!) interview.

Then, reporters -- or perhaps Bush campaign operatives -- found that the author apparently is an ex-convict, on parole for hiring a hit man to kill a former boss. That doesn't mean he can't research, of course, but Thompson's credibility suffered greatly as he claimed it was someone else, despite incredible similarities between his resume -- including unexplained job gaps during the prison years -- and confirmation from his parole officer that indeed, the author named J. H. Thompson is the one who did time.

Bush Jr.'s Evasive Responses:

Bush has essentially admitted that he used cocaine in his Clintonesque, carefully worded partial denials. He won't deny using cocaine or marijuana, though under persistent questioning he said that he hadn't used cocaine in the last 7 years. Most newspapers report that he denies using cocaine since 1974, but that's not exactly true.

That is the most favorable interpretation of what Bush said, but since Bush and his campaign have already made Clintonesque denials on other issues, we need to look at his words carefully.

What Bush actually said was ""I could have passed the background check on the standards applied on the most stringent conditions when my dad was president of the United States - a 15-year period," Mr. Bush said. This is ambiguous because background forms ask slightly different questions, depending on the position. Drug questions can go back one year, seven years or 10 years. Bush Jr. didn't have any formal position in his father's administration, so which one applies is unclear. And 15-years is not one of the choices.

Since Bush Sr.'s presidency began in January 1989, reporters assumed that Jr. was denying drug use for 15 years before that, to 1974. But that is not at all clear. His only direct statement was for seven years before today. He could easily have been denying drug use only for 15 years before today, based on 7 or 10 years dating back from the END of his dad's term. 10 years before 1993, the end of Bush Sr.'s term, is pretty close to 15 years before today.

The Clinton administration actually has a stricter standard than Bush did -- the FBI now asks about any drug use after age 18. But Governor Bush has refused to say whether he would pass that standard, even though that is what he will be asked if he wins. Bush also has refused to answer whether he could have passed the FBI test when his father was vice president, during the 8 years from 1981-1989.

As for the arrest and diversion charge, Governor Bush admits working at the center in 1972. When asked for comment, Bush's campaign spokesman reportedly said "Oh shit... no comment." McLellan denies saying that.

Bush's father, ex-president George Bush, denies the cocaine arrest charge, and in yet another carefully worded denial, Bush said ""It's totally ridiculous what he suggested and it's not true."

You'll recall that President Clinton made a very similar statement about Gennifer Flower's allegations of an affair, during the 1992 campaign. Later, when he had to testify under oath, it turned out that he was denying that all of the details of the story were true, not whether an affair had occurred or any specific details (many of which were accurate).

Similarly, Bush himself does not deny being caught with cocaine, or having performed community service. Bush's campaign spokesman has now denied that Bush was ever arrested on any drug charge.

The director of the center, Madgelean Bush (no relation), also denies the reports. However, her center is dependent on Texas state money, and the director, who grew up poor but has amassed several houses around the center while running it, allowed Governor Bush to use the center for a photo opportunity earlier this year.

The Bush campaign also produced Carol Vance, who was the Democratic District Attorney in Harris County in 1972, to say that there was no diversion program in that year, nor were there any Republican judges (as Hatfield's book states.)

Rock and Roll: Bush keeps a picture of himself with two members of ZZ Top, but does not play the song "Tube Snake Boogie" during his celibacy lectures. We have found no evidence to support the the most explosive allegation so far; that Bush played air guitar to a Foghat record at a party in the late 1970s. But he won't deny it, either.

When pressed on the hypocrisy issue, he speaks to hypocritical baby boomer parents everywhere: "If I were you, I wouldn't tell your kids that you smoked pot unless you want 'em to smoke pot. I think it's important for leaders, and parents, not to send mixed signals. I don't want some kid saying, 'Well, Governor Bush tried it.'"

It's amazing enough that he openly defends hypocrisy, but his own signals are very mixed. When allowed to imply that he is just another manly, hard-drinking rapscallion, Bush seizes the opportunity. "When I was young and irresponsible, I was really young and irresponsible," he often says. He even hints at pot smoking, as in the above quote, and why not? Everyone from his likely opponent Al Gore to Newt Gingrich has admitted smoking pot.

But Junior wants it both ways. When the deadly rumor of cocaine use surfaces, he retreats to his high-minded rhetoric about not giving mixed messages. If he thinks he can skate to the presidency without either his right-wing foes or embittered Clintonistas pushing his past into the limelight, then he really IS on drugs."






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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
11. Barry Seal, Mena, and cocaine
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ciadrugs/W_plane....

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2001/07/8992.php

I'd be interested in whether Hatfield was "discredited" in the same way that McCain was in 2000.
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. ideamouth is a great site for debunking lies about Kerry
from your personal page

somebody linked that here earlier
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Hmmm...
Where is that James Bath feller anyhoo? Bet HE could vouch for *dimson!
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. Well, I don't know
It's a tricky thing because any time a Democrat/Liberal/Progressive is criticized you don't know if the criticisms are accurate or if they are crap.

I will say that Salon.Com a generally liberal website was skeptical of Hatsfield; but I am guessing for some of you that means that Salon is a really a bastion of Bush Lovin'

Here's the link to the Salon Story http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2002/10/24/economy/in...

Bryant
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
19. Cokemon
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funkybutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
24. "I did cocaine with George Bush"
Where are all these people? Because we know they're out there. WOrking for Bush's reelection campaign? I've seen video from when he was working on his Dad's campaign and he looked like he could have been using cocaine at that time. He was very pumped up looking and wiping his nose a lot.
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marlakay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. On atrios blog writing in maybe?
Some guys wrote in with stories about doing drugs with Bush, but how did I know it was true? Maybe they don't come forward because they can't prove it or they know Bush will squash them!!
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lunarboy13 Donating Member (343 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
25. Here's an excerpt from Al Franken's book on the subject...
Edited on Mon Aug-09-04 04:34 PM by lunarboy13
Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right

Page 47, last four paragraphs.

"...it didn't take a genius to figure out that George W. Bush snorted cocaine sometime before 1974.

At first during the campaign Bush refused on principle to answer questions about cocaine. Then, because he was applying for a federal job (president) he had to fill out a form that asked if he had used illegal drugs in the past seven years. Bush voluntarily told the press he was able to answer no.

A clever reporter asked whether he could have given the same answer when his father was president and federal forms asked about drug use for the prior fifteen years.

"Uh, let's see here...Yes, I could have," Bush said after a pause. Then, when asked again if he had ever used cocaine, Bush refused to give an answer. His dad was inaugurated in 1989. Therefore, using the "Amazing Colossal President" test, George W. Bush snorted cocaine between 1958 and 1974, assuming he didn't do coke before he was 12."


That's Al Franken's take on it. Persoanlly, I think he was using cocaine sometime around 1972-1973, which may have been the reason he didn't show up to have a routine physical exam while he was in the TANG.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. You could be right.
About not showing up for the examination; would make sense.

I wouldn't show up either.

Bryant
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Keirsey Donating Member (508 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. J. H. Hatfield?
madmax, did you mean J. H. Hatfield, author of "Fortunate Son"?

Interesting that Hatfield reportedly committed suicide in 2001. I'm not going to implay the "c" word, but....


Google search "J. H. Hatfield died author

http://www.apfn.net/messageboard/8-12-03/discussion.cgi... references http://www.hornsandhalos.com /

http://www.democrats.com/preview.cfm?term=J.H.%20Hatfie...



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