Obama supporters unwise to attack Hillary Clinton

[MethuenProgressive]

The Seattle Times (WA): Obama supporters unwise to attack Hillary Clinton
By Froma Harrop
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2004411946_harrop14.html

Obamites are throwing victory parties over the impending defeat of a fellow Democrat who has thus far pulled in more than 47 percent of their party's primary and caucus participants. Some take a more direct approach. In anticipation of the West Virginia primary, college students for Obama were hurling insults at farmers and truck drivers holding signs for Clinton.

Disrespecting the nearly 17 million who have supported Clinton is politically unwise, but turning them into "the enemy" is insane. Last week's enemy was working-class white people. The Democrats can win without a majority of white voters — as Obama strategists undiplomatically note — but they can't win without a strong showing among them. So Obama partisans do not help their cause by willfully misrepresenting Clinton's reference to "hard-working Americans, white Americans" as racist rather than as a poorly worded observation made in a state of utter exhaustion. The fervor of their outrage suggests that some regard the mere consideration of white people, particularly white men, as a demographic needing a special message is an act of bigotry. (That's as opposed to a thousand other racial and socio-economic groups that politicos routinely slice and dice.)

We now hear pained remarks from the Obama camp that many white men won't vote for any black. Oh really? No one was complaining during the early races in Iowa, Maryland, Virginia and Wisconsin, when most of the white male participants backed Obama. That was before the Rev. Jeremiah Wright ugliness became public. Weirdly, Obamite triumphalism seems to be merging with the festivities on the Republican side. You can understand why the right would welcome what it prays is "the end of the Clinton era." Bill Clinton presided over the longest peacetime expansion since World War II. His budget surpluses put his so-called conservative predecessors and successor to shame. Wouldn't a vow to build on the Clinton legacy, rather than dismantle it, be a better tack for the Obama campaign?

Obama can't beat John McCain without large chunks of Clinton's core constituency: women, Hispanics and the white working class. Dumping on their candidate is one step removed from dumping on them — and some of the Obama people don't even bother with that step. Rove must be enjoying the show.

[Crazy Dave]

1. Celebrating is considered "disrespecting"?

Give me a fucking break :banghead:

[Rockholm]

20. It is all in how one celebrates.

I would have to say a fair majority of Obama supporters her on DU have not shown much class in the way they go after Hillary. Now that the end is drawing on her campaign, the frenzy is mounting and I for one, find it quite hard to watch.
Look at the way some fans of sports teams react when their team WINS a championship. Riots, burning cars & buildings, etc. No class.

[Crazy Dave]

52. It all depends how one complains and whines

Not directing this at you but to all the dipshits who say they're going to vote for McCain or another Nader unless "their" candidate is the democratic nominee.

[Texas Hill Country]

80. "turning them into "the enemy" is insane" ... enough said.

[MethuenProgressive]

90. That's the key point of the piece, Tex.

:kick:

[unlawflcombatnt]

154. And that's what the Obama camp is doing even as we speak

They continue to spew their hateful bile.

Not at good way to "bring people together."

[complain jane]

181. I know.

And if you comment on it, you're either a racist or a Hillary supporter upset at her impending loss. They're friggen ridiculous.

[Rockholm]

123. You and I both know that "those" people...

are not real Democrats and are not committed to taking the White House bank in November. This is for people in both the Obama and Clinton camps. I am amazed that any of us would say "If _____ is the nominee, I am not voting" or "If _____ is the nominee, I am voting McCain or third party."
I still fully support Hillary Clinton. If she is not the nominee, then I will support Barack Obama. To me, there is no other option.

[unlawflcombatnt]

136. Obama & his followers wrote the book on whining & complaining

Never has a candidate, nor his supporters, been such spineless, whining, crybaby.

[Crazy Dave]

163. I still say "Fuck you" to all the assholes who say...

"I'm voting for McCain if Hillary isn't the nominee"

They should just call themselves republican wannabe pieces of shit who want a war to continue, higher gas prices and no health care just because their queen wasn't the nominee.

[Kahuna]

191. I still can't believe that hillary voters have the nerve to criticize anyone

on "class." It's the height of hypocrisy.

[Leopolds Ghost]

114. You are unwise to lower your DEFENSES, Obama-wan!

It is pointless to resist, my son. You... and your supporters... are now mine.

EDWARDS: "No! It can't be! I'll never join you!"

You don't know the power of the Dark side!

EDWARDS: "There's still good in him... I can feel it. I must try to save him!"

HILLARY: Ha ha ha ha! Good! Goooood! Now, strike down the Democratic nominee and take his place at MY side.

[unlawflcombatnt]

135. Hurling insults at Clinton supporters IS disrespectful

"In anticipation of the West Virginia primary, college students for Obama were hurling insults at farmers and truck drivers holding signs for Clinton."

Or is this an Obama cultist's idea of "celebrating"?

:spank:

[Jester Messiah]

179. Cry me some more crocodile tears

You speak of disrespect and then go on to call the Obama camp "cultists" ?

Try showing some respect, then you might be shown some in return.

[unlawflcombatnt]

189. Why?

You've shown nothing but disdain and hatred of Clinton.

You'll get some respect when (and if) you earn it.

[complain jane]

183. They're acting like Repukes.

Lovely. Makes me want to run right out and vote.

[rucky]

2. Hillary Clinton supporters unwise to attack Barack Obama

Dems unwise to attack Dems.

Welcome back.

[Evergreen Emerald]

4. wha? Unless the dem is a Clinton or supporter?

[rucky]

19. You're impossible. n/t

[JoFerret]

107. As so many are such

sore winners it would seem that is wise advice.

[Evergreen Emerald]

3. I agree completely with the article.

"Wouldn't a vow to build on the Clinton legacy, rather than dismantle it, be a better tack for the Obama campaign?"

I was so offended when Obama went after the Clinton legacy.

[MethuenProgressive]

7. BO has 'burned his bridges before he got to them'

When BO delivered that Pastor Wright inspired speech at the 2004 convention he should listened to what he was saying, imo.

[DS1]

11. I doubt you even remember what he said

bringing that up is just an excuse to say the name "Wright" and you know it

[dorktv]

140. Lovely image you got there. Way to build bridges to voters you need.

[satireV]

160. Your sig reminds me of Cheney cursing Leahy.

I suppose you consider your profanity a unification. I just haven't figured out what or who you are unifying with?

Ashcroft? Gonzales? Scooter?
Fascism?

[Bluenorthwest]

169. I remember what he said

And I remember that Patti LaBelle sang and brought down the house. I also remember that at the 2004 GOP Convention, Donnie McClurkin sang for GW Bush as Democratic protesters were being dragged away by the police. The same Donnie McClurkin Obama put up on a stage to attack GLBT people to win the votes of religious bigots in the South.
Donnie sang 'Stand' for George W. It was sickening. He wept and pouted and flirted lilke Monroe singing Happy Birthday to JFK. Obama loved what he saw and hired himself some Donnie too.

[satireV]

173. Is this factual?

Wow.... I am going to research this.

thanks for the heads up.

[Bluenorthwest]

176. Yes of course it is factual

In addition, there was an uproar in the press and even among some Republicans about the use of McClurkin. Donnie is not just 'ex-gay' he's a Fundy across the board. Donnie has never once said he was supporting Obama, by thet way. Obama has sort of supported Donnie, but Donnie is a well known Republican activist.
Here is my favorite of all Donnie McClurkin quotes, has nothing to do with GLBT people at all. It is in reference to Donnie's relationship with Bush: " Travelling around the world, sitting with the President, this means more than anything to me."
It is such a deep confession for a so called minister to make about his priorities. More than anything, says the man who claims to save souls for Jesus. More than anything. That says all any person with a brain or a Democratic ballot ought to need to know about Donnie McClurkin.

[still_one]

32. The ONLY question in peoples mind should be do they want mccain or a Democrat

You want to still fight the primaries, go ahead, but the issues are very clear

The Iraq War
The Supreme Court
The Economy

Most likely Obama WILL be the Democratic nominee. If some Democrats don't like it, and they decide to either NOT vote or worse vote for mccain, and because of that action mccain wins, then this country WILL DESERVE WHAT IT GETS

[MethuenProgressive]

43. Did you read the piece quoted and linked in the OP? That's the advice being givien there.

With the damage done to the Party by the Obama Camp, the November result - once a sure bet - is now in question.

[still_one]

This isn't coming from the Obama camp as you put it. Individual supporters on both sides

have been jerks

If people make their decisions at the polls based on a candiate's supporters insults, the consequences will be paid then. The last 8 years have pretty much convienced we are getting what we deserve, and except for a handful of Congressional Democrats during that time, their haven't been much Profiles of Courage

If mccain wins then we will be screwed by the Supreme Court, and if people are stupid enough to do that, then I've had it

[rodeodance]

55. then you need to take seriously what the OP is saying.

[still_one]

71. It isn't my problem. I have been through the fight for civil rights, which include

gender issues.

The supreme court is at stake. Do you what you want, I am to the point where I will vote Democratic, but whatever happens, happens

[havocmom]

8. the Clintons themselves have been the ones damaging the Clinton Legacy

by their very behavior. If Obama hadn't pointed out the really bad behavior, HRC would have attacked him for not being enough of a fighter to be the DEM nominee. This shit of damned (by HRC and her 29%ers) if he does and damned (by HRC and her 29%ers) if he doesn't is getting pretty fucking tiresome. It has ALWAYS been transparent and feeble.

[MethuenProgressive]

13. Many other victims of Obama's anti-Clinton Swiftboat plot agree with you.

Karl Rove.. er, I mean David Axelrod, is wicked good at what he does.

[havocmom]

54. LOL More of the rovian/gop style projection I see.

:rofl:

don't stare too long into the mirror, Alice.

[merh]

42. She is the one that has dismantled her legacy

Those that have voiced their opposition to the hillary campaign have, for the most part; opposed her tactics; her attacks on a fellow dem; her use of rove-like tactics; her lies; her poor operations of her campaign; her trust in advisors that were going against what she was saying; her negative attacks and then her whining about being attacked on her policies and lies; ....

I could go on, but it is The Clintons that have done their own dismantling and that have caused so much harm to their individual and joint legacies.

If she wants respect, she needs to start offering it to others (same thing with a majority of her supporters here). That golden rule thing really does matter.

[Blue_Roses]

49. Oh, give it a break...

:eyes: "the Clinton legacy" was tarnished by none other than Bill Clinton with his midnight tromps through the WH with the young intern. Many of us stood by him, while being ridiculed, because we loved Bill and Hillary. He threw US under the bus by doing this to begin with. Bullshit. I'm so sick of Hillary supporters crying about something that the Clintons brought on themselves

[paulk]

92. I guess it depends on what you define as "the Clinton legacy"

I tend to look at the eight years of peace and prosperity, the largest, most continuous economic expansion in our history, the appointment of two liberal Supreme Court judges, etc., etc.

You focus on Bill Clinton's cock.

To each his or her own, I guess...

[philk17088]

130. Huh?

Peace? I guess the suffering in Bosnia was peace? We sent our troops to "peace"?
And what happened under his leadership in 1994? The republican revolution, thats what. He co-opted republican ideas such as welfare reform and what about DADT? NAFTA?
Legacy my ass.

[paulk]

131. another newbie troll

[Ronnie]

133. Well, he's for sure not one of the 400 peacemakers.

[Bake]

110. I suggest you get over Clinton's penis. You sound like a Republican.

OMG, his midnight romps with an intern! What will we tell the children????

JFK was a playa, but you don't hear that. LBJ was known to be a womanizer too. As was Poppy Bush. But it was Clinton's penis that single-handedly destroyed the Democratic Party!

Bull. Shit.

The true Clinton legacy is, as the OP's article states, the longest peace-time economic expansion, the budget surpluses, etc. Not, I repeat, NOT a blue dress.

Bake

[Texas Hill Country]

88. me too

[GodlessBiker]

5. I agree. But the author is spinning "poorly worded observation made in a state of utter exhaustion"

[Evergreen Emerald]

12. Those were Obama's words when he "misspoke"

He is only human, says Obama. He is exhausted due to the campaign and misspeaks. And you all forgive him. Well, give her the same benefit of the doubt.

[rodeodance]

39. ah yes, Obamaspek: When BHO does it it is mispeak, when Hillary does it -it is a lie.

[havocmom]

59. When she does it 3-4 times, yep, it IS a lie

Duck! small female sniper with a poem!!!!

[Shakespeare]

6. Pat Buchanan writes opinion pieces, too.

And so does Peggy Noonan. So....yeah. There ya go. :boring:

[TahitiNut]

45. Froma Harrop has a loooong series of anti-Obama (and pro-NAFTA) columns.

She seems to have an "issue" with him. :eyes: She defended the Clinton campaign's use of Osama bin Laden's image in attacking Obama. She piled on in attacking Reverend Wright. She's clearly a Hillbot.

[Window]

85. Clearly.

[redqueen]

91. You made me think of that old adage...

that people will judge you by the company you keep.

[stevietheman]

9. If Hillary had run a campaign that didn't seek to smear Obama, I would agree. n/t

n/t

[PoliticalAmazon]

26. Most importantly, Obama has not ONCE insulted Hillary's voters...

while the Clintons and their surrogates have repeatedly insulted Obama's supporters.

I don't like the premise of someone wagging their finger at me and telling me I shouldn't "attack" Hillary Clinton, because they mean "attack" as including standing up to her outrageous lies and smears of Obama and his supporters, like me.

If they think I'm going to lay down and play doormat for Hillary Clinton, they are wrong. She's earned the criticism she's received, and I'm tired of being blamed for problems SHE'S initiated.

[Evergreen Emerald]

27. What planet have you been on?

He has shouted "Racism!" from the rooftops
He said that her supporters are "bitter" and therefore cling to guns and god in a reactionary way (and apparently need a daddy to set them straight).

He has attacked Clinton as a woman and a progressive. He has attacked her verasity and claimed that she was in part responsible for Bhutto's death. He has attacked non-stop in a politics as usual campaign..just like Bush did to Gore, while the press considered Gore's responses: "attacks."

You are way way off base.

[stevietheman]

31. None of what you say is remotely near the truth.

Keep up the exaggerations and falsehoods. It won't matter to how things play out.

[Tyler Durden]

44. If it's wrong, refute it. "No it isn't!" is Monty Python, not debate.

[rodeodance]

57. and very much like how Bush operates.

[walldude]

137. Well the poster made some pretty outrageous claims

with nary a link to back it up. Why should the responder be the one who has to prove or disprove what the poster said?

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[havocmom]

66. BRAVO!

:applause:

[MethuenProgressive]

119. "bravo" to a delete-worthy message...

:rofl:

[Beacool]

73. These Obama fans have drunk too much of the Kool-Aid.

Obama and his camp have not attacked Hillary??????? It must be so nice to go through life with blinders on.

:eyes:

[PoliticalAmazon]

86. Spin worthy of Terrry "Karen Hughes" McAluiff....

You are trying to "prove" that Obama has insulted Hlllary supporters by (falsely) claiming he has "attacked" Hillary. Get a clue. Criticizing Hillary for her backward-thinking, conservative toadying actions and statements is NOT insulting Hillary voters. It is you who is "way off base."

He has not called Hillary voters racist.

He did not say her supporters are "bitter," unless you are spinning ALL rural voters as "Hillary supporers." Here's a clue for you: Obama swept the rural areas of Nevada, where the vast majority of voters are white, working-class people.

Obama has never attacked Hlllary "as a woman." Post evidence.

Obama has not "attacked" Hillary as a progressive. He has criticized some of her tactics and policies. If you don't want Hillary's policies and tactics criticized, then you should talk to Hillary and get her to stop the divisive, Bush/Rove pig-slop politics.

You are attempting to paint Obama with the brush that should be used on Hillary: it is she who has eagerly embraced Bush/ROve pig-slop politics. I may point out that this approach IS a Bush/Rove pig-slop tactic.

[MethuenProgressive]

129. Another victim of Obama's Swiftboat is heard from.

:eyes:

[sfaprog]

185. One link to back up that total BS. One link is all we ask...

Pure made-up slander. Disgusting.

[rodeodance]

157. oh poor wittle obama .

[democrattotheend]

10. I agree. We need to show class and reach out, not keep attacking Clinton.

I am not saying she is above criticism as long as she remains a candidate (or even after), but some of the attacks on her from Obama supporters lately have been tasteless and completely unnecessary. I encourage Obama supporters to think before they post attacks on Hillary Clinton about whether they are really necessary and whether they will further alienate her supporters. Personally, I hope that Clinton supporters here and in the real world will be with us in the general election, as voters and as activists, and I don't see how we can expect you to do that when we keep trashing you and your candidate.

[Citizen_Penn]

18. Let her reach out first, I say

Demonstrate that there is some shred of decency in her.

But, no, no, no - not because you or anyone else thinks it's the "right" thing to do.

Always will I reject that bogus reasoning.

She started the fire, let her carry the first water bucket.

[Tyler Durden]

47. Obama needs Clinton: Clinton DOES NOT need Obama.

If as you believe the race is over, then Obama AND his mostly rude Campaign have no excuse for continued mayhem.


The MATH is not delegates: it's 1 in 16; that's the number of the 47% of Democratic participants in the Primary (MINUS bad ol' MI and FL of course :sarcasm:) that if they reject Obama, NOT reject AND vote for McCain, that will turn this election into something that George McGovern would have ENVIED.

You NEVER kick an opponent when they are down; not if you want their HELP someday.

[smoogatz]

64. Is there an award for the most tortured misunderstanding of political

reality ever? If so, I think you just won it.

[Citizen_Penn]

98. The only more stupid

would be the deny that the winner is the winner.

Or KICKING (violent aren't you?), the winner when he's up!!!



Oh, yeah, I said, SHE IS A LOSER.

That's not kicking, it's REALISM.

[eilen]

180. I don't know that he needs her

he has John Edwards. If anything, she would have needed him--and his money. He doesn't owe her anything. If you are saying he needs her supporters, well, that may be true. If she would choose to support him and help him, well yes, he could use the support and maybe, just maybe, she and her loose cannon of a husband could repair some of the damage they wrought. Ultimately, politics is going forward in a new way, one in which the Clinton campaign was ill prepared for and it showed. All things being equal, however, I think this election is the Democrat's to lose.

[Jim Sagle]

134. Assholes like you just make it all that much harder.

You want our votes, you GODDAMN WELL better ask nicely for them.

PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RandomKoolzip]

148. .

EXCLAMATION POINT.................................................

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[asthmaticeog]

15. I didn't realize I was being "disrespected" by the Kerry supporters who celebrated his victory

in the '04 primary, though I didn't support his nomination. Well, I'll know better next time! :eyes:

[JVS]

22. They dissed you hard dude. Now you have to respond with all your hate and spite!

[asthmaticeog]

37. I now realize I should have made constant, elliptical threats to withhold my vote.

And to hold my breath until I turned blue or they gave the nom, unearned, to Dennis Kucinich. I obviously have a lot to learn about political tactics.

[JVS]

56. Back in 2004, they probably wouldn't have tolerated that.

Don't get me wrong, I think the mods do a fine job now especially considering all the flames going on, but in GDP back in 2004 if you got 5 posts deleted you were no longer allowed in GD:P. I also remember the rule about "unambiguously positive signatures"

[asthmaticeog]

78. It was TOTALLY different circumstances in 2004.

In 2004, you didn't have a huge mob of, say, pro-Clark trolls registering well after it was obvious that Clark wouldn't be the nominee, but signing up to stir up shit with laughable demands that the nomination be given to him anyway, like we have with some of the more noxious Clintonistas this year. I've noticed that pretty much any Clinton supporter who signed up here after about mid-February can be pretty easily pegged for a HillTroll.

And hell yeah, the mods are doing a bang-up job in the face of some utterly ludicrous shit from BOTH sides. Total respek from this DUer.

[JVS]

79. Ah, memories. A more innocent time.

[Name removed]

161. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[asthmaticeog]

167. First of all, don't you dare call me a troll, newbie.

Second, I used the term to describe a certain type, not all Clinton supporters, though if the shoe fits, wear it. My mom voted for Clinton in the Ohio primary. I don't call her a "Clintonista." Because she's not a rabid, mindless HillTroll. Most Clinton supporters on DU aren't either. If you can't see that I was talking about a specific group -- I even spelled out the specific objectionable behaviors! -- then plainly you can't see at all.

Third, keep poking me and I'll SHOW you what "hate" is.

On edit: I notice your profile's turned off. Interesting.

[Name removed]

172. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[asthmaticeog]

175. Helpful hint: you're only supposed to post that when someone whines. nt

[BenDavid]

16. Obama can't beat McCain without large chunks of HRC's core

constituency: women, Hispanics and the white working class. Dumping on our candidate is one step removed from dumping on us — and some of the Obama people don't even bother with that step.

[MethuenProgressive]

21. It seems a point completely beyond comprehension to many of BO's DU followers.

Attacking WV voters as 'low information'? There goes that pot again...

[Tyler Durden]

48. I loved the pictures of College Students deriding HRC supporters in WV.

Wish I had one handy.

In WV we'll be lucky if we don't see a LANDSLIDE for McCain. Campaign Obama blew that one completely; a perfect chance to be gracious shot to hell.

[MethuenProgressive]

121. Another bridge burned by Obama.

He does know there's an election in November, doesn't he?

[eridani]

143. That must be why Clinton recycled the strictly REPUKE "elitist" meme, right?

Because the REPUKES wouldn't use it against her? On what planet?

[havocmom]

62. Any HRC supporter who won't support the DEM nominee

is a republican, whether they are brave enough to face themselves honestly or not.

[Hatchling]

93. Any HRC supporter who won't support the DEM nominee

might just be a newly registered Independent.

[havocmom]

100. Give our regards to Ralph

Blackmail will not win friends nor influence people with spines

[Hatchling]

128. How to Win Friends and Influence People!?

:rofl:

This is certainly a book you should re-read, sweetie. (You don't mind if I call you sweetie?)

Perhaps I should have said that I have registered as unaffiliated? I'm just sick and tired of being called a Republican if I support Hillary and do not support Obama.

I have not advocated Nadar nor will on this board. Nor for any candidate that is not a Democrat. This board is for the purpose of supporting Democratic candidates. If there is a candidate I cannot support, after DU declares, I will keep my mouth shut, nor will I advocate against them, nor for any of their opponents.

As for calling it a threat or blackmail, it is neither. It is a statement of fact that I have changed my political affiliation. I am still allowed to be here if my values are progressive. They are.

It is a long time til November. I have plenty of time to look over all nominees for President and make my choice by then. Maybe Obama will look better by then.

[dorktv]

147. *sighs* Must you be so rude to Democratic voters who would rather not have

someone who they have issues with?

[Blue-Jay]

84. You should be working to change that.

[eridani]

142. I'm a woman, and I'm not her core constituency n/t

[AZSlacker]

17. I find it ironic that Obamite is the first word in an op ed making the case that Obama supporters

had better be careful about attacking Clinton supporters. I agree with the sentiment, but lobbing firebombs while telling the other side to disarm is kind of a :crazy: tactic.

[highplainsdem]

25. Obamite, like Clintonite, is a completely neutral term. Why are you taking offense?

[Ichingcarpenter]

23. Pat Buchanan editorial: Right before WV - "IN DEFENSE OF HILLARY'

In defense of Hillary
Posted: May 12, 2008
8:40 pm Eastern

by Patrick J Buchanan.





WORLD NET DAILY

In the editorial he 'explains' racism to his reader.


http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=64150

[Swamp Rat]

28. ugh!

[Texas Hill Country]

87. actually, i think he is exactly right.

[RandomKoolzip]

149. Um, you DO realize we're talking about Pat "Fucking" Buchanan, here, right?

This "the enemy of the enemy is my friend" bullshit is the same way BushCo ran their foreign policy, and it's just as stupid on this stage.

[JoFerret]

195. Oooh! Pat B

gotta listen to him.
Let's post his ideas all over DU and send him a new pitchfork.
(relevance?)

[BlueJac]

24. You need a break for a while.

[still_one]

29. This article is a backhanded way of injecting race into the campaign again

Froma Harrop appears not to be a fan of Obama. Her article trys to continue the race baiting issue

It really comes down to this:

1. The Iraq war
2. Healthcare
3. jobs
4. The Supreme Court
5. Social Security
6. Medicare
7. The Environment
8. The high price of food and energy
9. Education

If people believe that they are better of than they were 8 years ago, then they should vote for mccain, because there is no doubt that he will continue MOST of the bush policies of the last 8 years

However, if people have another view then they should vote Democratic

and most likely that Democratic nominee WILL BE OBAMA

Googling the author of the article, Froma Harrop, appears that she has a bias against Obama, and a preference for Hillary

She obviously doesn't like the results of the PRIMARY.

The author conviently forgets that it was the ACTUAL Clinton campaign that introduced these "side" distractions, including elevating mccain over Obama

The truth is that it was Clinton who was the presumptive Democratic nominee a year ago. It also was mccain who was suppossed to be the republican nominee

I suggest that these opinion writers and so called journalists are more uninformed than they care to admit

Where were their voices when they were beating the war drums for us to attack Iraq based on LIES?

[rodeodance]

46. The Obama camp inserted race the day Obama silently stood by and allowed his

surrogates to attach hillary in relation to non-racial MLK remarks.

[still_one]

69. Want to continue the fight, go for it. I'm through. People who don't want

to vote Democratic because they don't like the Democratic nominee, and if mccain wins because of that, I won't like it because for my daughters sake, but I will be done with the political process.

If that happens, the mccain Supreme Court will put back both civil rights by at least 50 years, and that includes civil rights based on both gender and race.

We will have a Democratic Congress with a clear majorty. Whether the whitehouse follows, who knows, but based on the last 8 years I wouldn't have too much confidence that a Supreme Court will be to our likeing if we don't have a Democratic President

if people don't vote what is in the countries, and their own best interest they won't get my sympathy

[rodeodance]

94. the primaries are not over. Cut with the arrogant lectures.

[still_one]

103. They are over for me, if they are not for you that is fine. No arrogance intended

The stakes are very clear, have a good day

[Cass]

30. Good article!

K & R

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Ian_rd]

34. She is now officially Lieberman.

Like Lieberman, she can do whatever the hell she wants because there are going to be people in the party who are scared shitless that if any moves are made against her, or for that matter any strong criticism, then she will use her power to hurt the Democrats. She will be the proverbial child who destroys her playmate's toys when she loses a game. Lieberman can campaign for McCain and label Obama a terrorist all he wants and still keep his positions in the Senate because Harry Reid doesn't want Joe to join the Republican Party and switch the balance of power. And now Hillary can continue this egotistical charade and damage Obama's chances in the General Election because the party is scared that if angered she'll rob the nomination from Obama, or perhaps even snipe at him after the nomination, and ensure a McCain victory beyond a doubt.

Like, Lieberman, she is holding our party hostage while hurting it at the same time. You have got to know that this is common talk within the Obama campaign. Surely part of his motivation is to stay positive, but another part is to avoid angering Clinton because of her power to throw the election to McCain for pure spite. Anyone who doubts she can do this is not paying attention. Look at the reaction to Edwards by many Hillary supporters. All of a sudden he is a phony and a target of frothing hatred because of his lack of support for their candidate. If she says, "jump off that cliff," they will.

[dkf]

35. You know who got me to vote for John Kerry? It wasn't Kerry, it was Howard Dean.

If Hillary can't get you to vote Dem then its her failure.

[rodeodance]

36. Thanks for the OP. Very good advice in that article.

[MethuenProgressive]

41. From the responses, it seems only a few have read past the title.

Seems to be a tradition. :hi:

[Tyler Durden]

50. They are ENJOYING their mutilation of HRC.

Both campaigns behaved badly: almost in exact equal measure; that is what STIMULATES the over response of the Obama Camp. Clinton was too close to being a mirror, therefore she must be smashed and ground to dust.

[eridani]

145. Really? There is objective evidence to the contrary

That would be the 70+ Clinton maxed out campaign donors who started donating to Obama in March. One of them, a $500K+ Hillraiser, specifically cited concerns about the negativity of the campaign.

[rodeodance]

63. that was enough to set of the Faux OUTRAGE. --for many.

[dkf]

38. Only props are from Hillary people.

What a joke.

[skipos]

40. Oh the irony. This is being posted by one of DU's biggest anti-Obama shit stirrers

It reminds me of when Republicans start talking about the need for bipartisanship after they get there asses handed to them in an election (ie 2006).

[rodeodance]

58. KILL THE MESSENGER---Very Rovian.

[havocmom]

67. When the messanger plays at rove, yep,

[skipos]

77. Hey! It is another anti-Obama shit stirrer!

Hillary & Bill using Rovian tactics = OK!
Skipos saying the post is ironic = Not OK!

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MethuenProgressive]

96. "Next time you get pregnant, Froma, I'm calling for that baby's head."

...

[crimsonblue]

99. it's called hyperbole...

:P

[MethuenProgressive]

101. Calling for the death of the author's child isn't mere hyperbole.

And you wonder why people see Obama's supporters the way they do?

[crimsonblue]

102. right... because someone posted a comment in a thread that upset you

why don't you call the waaaabulance...

[rodeodance]

105. someone pointed out your violent post and you make fun!!!

[Name removed]

165. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MethuenProgressive]

166. Did that really happen??

The OP should've been tombstoned for that.

[Name removed]

171. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

177. So -- the DU ADmins are stooges according to you. Why are you here again?

[rodeodance]

104. Why do you bring shame on DU with such a violent post--calling for a baby's head!!

......Next time you get pregnant, Froma, I'm calling for that baby's head. Look at me, I can be a cold hearted whore, too!

[SaveOurDemocracy]

106. While I can't confirm the cold hearted whore part ...

You've certainly proved yourself an OINKer.


"Next time you get pregnant, Froma, I'm calling for that baby's head. Look at me, I can be a cold hearted whore, too!"

[crimsonblue]

113. apparently satire is a lost art on some people....

oh well... your loss....

[dionysus]

53. ...

[sfaprog]

60. The OP is nothing but a tantrum....

And as Hillary continues to stay in the race and attack and attempt to weaken our nominee, it is a hypocritical one.

[MethuenProgressive]

118. Welcome to DU!

[rodeodance]

158. what a weakling he is . can't take the heat. too bad.

[Occam Bandage]

65. Boy, you guys sure do whine a lot, don't you?

[yourguide]

68. It was unwise for Hillary Clinton to attack Barack Obama

she set the tone.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[book_worm]

72. And Clinton supporters are unwise to keep attacking the presumptive nominee

[Lady-Damai]

74. Can HRC win without Obama supporters? n/t

[zulchzulu]

75. Hillary supporters need to grow up and face facts...it's as simple as that

Hillary Clinton has proven once again that she is a divisive character. She continues in a race that she clearly has lost and infers that she can still win by what can only be some sort of pathological disorder or lack of maturity to understand the reality of the situation.

What Hillary Clinton is doing is divide Democrats willingly and with earnest. She knows no boundaries to appease her own ambitions, outweighing what is good for the Democratic Party for her own flatulence and self-aggrandizement.

The Clinton legacy is also being damaged by her own ambitions. Her husband is also complicit in destroying their legacy. It's puzzling from a historical perspective. It's like a Beatles medley starting with "Yesterday" that merges into "Helter Skelter".

I think a lot of people who support(ed) Hillary Clinton know that she is not going to be the nominee and are measured enough to know that Barack Obama WILL make a great next President and will vote for him. There are just some people who are still in the "bitter" stage and will hopefully come out of it by the time the General Election kicks in and see that a vote for McCain is truly a vote for four more years of Bush policies.

What happens to the Clintons after all this will be interesting to watch. And no, I don't think it would be a good idea for Hillary Clinton to be the VP.

Let's move on.

[NatBurner]

76. i'm looking ahead to the GE

y'all can argue about hillary if you wanna, i'll be up the road

[Texas Hill Country]

81. this gets a big ol K&R

[Politicub]

82. No one likes a sore winner

And to Obama's favor, I wish his supporters would show as much decorum as the candidate himself.

It's get tiring, but I've pretty much learned to ignore (mentally, not with DU's ignore function) those hurling insults. After a while, it just becomes an unpleasant droning noise - nothing more.

[MethuenProgressive]

95. Thanks for the response.

:thumbsup:

[amelia]

83. K&R

[emilyg]

108. ......

[billyoc]

97. I agree, her Senate primary isn't until 2012, why bother attacking her now? nt

[phrigndumass]

109. I don't need to attack her, Obama won.

But I'll be donating every last dime I possibly can in 2012 to her Senate race primary opponent.

Dog-whistling to racist bigots and threatening to obliterate Iran with nukes were the last straws for this lifetime Democratic voter. And to think, I used to admire her.

She tried to win ugly against a fellow Dem, and I'm very happy to see it fail spectacularly.

[Dr Fate]

111. But Mom-she hit me first!!!

;)

[CakeGrrl]

112. Another Clinton-suporter Op-Ed that equates pointing out shortcomings with "attacks"

Look, as an Obama supporter, I don't think it's helpful to create OP's saying "Hillary lost - Get over it". No one likes having a loss rubbed in their face, and I agree that for the most part, die-hard haters notwithstanding, Democrats need to collectively work together in enough numbers to keep Republicans from walking away with another 4 years.

On the other hand, there is an annoying pattern of the Clinton camp and its supporters being unable to take what they dish out and trying to kill the like-kind exchange of a political contest so as to stifle pretty much all dissent against Hillary Clinton that implies that she's anything less than this superdynamic, powerful, wise agent for change - and in some eyes, the ONLY one.

This Op-Ed writer is whining about Ted Kennedy daring to say that Clinton lacks leadership. And? I'm sure he's not the only one who thinks Obama is better qualified to deal with some of the challenges we face. But it's dishonest of her to fan the flames of resentment by framing a reasonable criticism as an attack. It's a cheap-shot way to say "You aren't allowed to say anything bad about Hillary or we won't work with you."

Somehow I doubt she was righteously outraged about Hillary touting a Republican as having "crossed the CiC threshold" while dismissing a fellow Democrat.

Democrats who make threats against fellow Democrats to withhold their votes unless they are coddled and soothed with nicey-nice language because they can't face unpleasant truths is definitely something over which Karl Rove is smiling broadly.

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MethuenProgressive]

120. "Don't be the stalker ex-girlfriend."

...

[OzarkDem]

125. Off to the ignore list for you

Welcome to DU :eyes:

[AtomicKitten]

116. Or she'll huff and she'll puff and blow the convention doors down?

[BlooInBloo]

117. Clinton supporters unwise to not vote for Obama.

[shadowknows69]

122. For people who supposedly support Hillary for her strength

Y'all are a bunch of whiny weaklings.

[OzarkDem]

124. In the Ozarks they call it

"sh*tting in your nest".

No one ever said Obama supporters were smart.

[Catchawave]

126. Good article, and very true....

Obama needs Clinton's AND EDWARDS' core constituency, starting with DU's :D

K&R :hi:

[MethuenProgressive]

127. 'turning them into "the enemy" is insane' as noted above.

18 Million people, all unwanted by the Obamas.
They know there's an election in November, don't they?

[Rene]

132. Re...last 3 sentences....obama does not have those "large chunks: in the least.

Hillary would be a far better President. She gets my write-in. Will never vote for the empty suit, preacher obama. he's exactly like w....a pandering front man, packaged and pushed on the American people by the kingmakers. he and his people have run a very karl-rovian, smelly campaign. www.attacktimeline.com

[walldude]

139. Well the kids in Iraq, the families with no health care

the people who's homes are in foreclosure, the people who are suffering under this recession and women everywhere who want to see Roe V Wade remain the law of the land, thank you for pissing your vote away should "your" candidate lose the nomination. Even if you see Obama as an empty suit his suit is much better for this country than McCain's. But go ahead throw your vote away. I'm sure you are so well off that you can stand 4 more years of neo-con rule.

On edit-I'm not even going to bother addressing the Rovian tactics thing. Pathetic when "your" candidate made some seriously bad judgment.

[How to be positive]

141. I am sad I stayed away from DU for a long time. Now I've come back it's nya nya na nya nya dialoge.

IF and (if) McCain gets elected it's ALL Democrats fault.

[eridani]

146. No short-term thinker is qualified to be president

That is Clinton, as she has amply demonstrated by the way she ran her campaign.

[Jim Sagle]

153. And his scumbag followers on the web have wallowed in the stench.

Notably, his followers on DU.

[LiberalLovinLug]

199. So full of sh*t

"...he and his people have run a very karl-rovian, smelly campaign."

this is exactly what Rove does. Accuse the Democrats of evils that the Repukes have done.
Now it is used by Limpball Hillbots against their inevitable candidate for President.
She admitted she was using a 'kitchen sink' approach. She praised McCains experience over a fellow Democrat, she played the race card. She blamed Obama for rules that she helped set up and agreed too for MI and FL. etc. etc. etc., while Obama has run a decent campaign, and only dwelt on side issues when he was forced to defend himself against attacks by McCain and Hillary. Get your head out of your ass.


OH and your stupid website:

www.attacktimeline.com

what a joke. Full of lies and distortions. Like "Obama campaign conference call says Hillary lacks 'moral authority' to 'lay a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier on Memorial Day.", implying that it was Obama saying this when it was General Walter Stewart who was incensed after hearing about her Bosnian lie. Also failing to mention that "Obama spokesman Hari Sevugan disassociated the campaign from Stewart's remarks: "We obviously do not agree with that sentiment.""

Others like "Obama campaign ad suggests Hillary uses 'fear and calculation to divide us'.
Source: Obama Campaign Ad", well uh....SHE DOES,

Still others attribute Obama to random email spammers, who may or may not be Obama supporters.


There is absolutely no way anyone can compare the negativity, race-baiting, contempt that the Hillary campaign has done towards the Obama camp, than the other way around.

And no I won't even swallow the "well they've both been bad" argument. Fact is the Hillary camp should apologize to ALL Democratic voters and all Americans for that matter for the vile behavior she has shown in the last year.

[unlawflcombatnt]

138. Bump N/T

[kerry-is-my-prez]

144. turning them into "the enemy" is insane....

people should read this and take note. I've never seens such a group of poor winners....

[eridani]

150. Someone who is apparently utterly clueless about WA state politics

It's pretty well known that King County Executive Ron Sims (African-American) and Governor Christine Gregoire can't stand each other. Gregoire defeated Sims by a fairly large margin in the 2004 gubernatorial primary. Any Washington voter would have been absolutely appalled had Gregoire ever dared to say something to the effect of "Dino Rossi (Republican) and I are obviously experienced enough to be governor, but Ron Sims isn't." Yet the OP seems to think an equivalent statement by Clinton is perfectly acceptable.

You want to know way WA state (pretty white, overall) went for Obama so strongly, urban blue and rural red alike? That would be because the Clinton state campaign director's approach to winning caucuses was to call all of the Dem legislative district and county chairs and threaten them with unspecified reprisals in 2009 if they didn't get behind the inevitable winner. (My LD chair was a newbie from the class of 2004, and pretty shocked. Old timers just blew it off as business as usual.) Obama's campaign focused on turnout and working with existing Dem organizations as much as possible. Those of us who were around in 2004 trying to work with the appallingly arrogant coordinated campaign employees from DNC were mightily impressed.

I'm a diehard Kucinich issue junky and caucused as uncommitted, but I am also in the reality-based community and recognize when I've been out-organized. And I respect the hell out of it. It is the Clinton campaign that is slicing and dicing microdemographics--the Obama campaign is focused on organizing--organizing EVERYBODY.

[satireV]

168. McDermott is my congresscritter

He is a gadfly and basically toothless and powerless but still gets 60-70% of the vote in his district. He came out of the closet and is supporting Obama.

Note. Gregoire is supporting Obama and Sims is supporting Clinton. It makes your "what if" statement empty. Personally I would never be appalled at anything Gregoire would say to get elected. she is, after all, a politician. (Will she now disown me like Obama disowned his preacher for calling him a politician?)

Additionally, you forget the primary process in WA state is still tied up in the Washington State Supreme Court and allocation of delegates is still up in the air. (Unless there has been a recent ruling I am unaware)

[eridani]

190. Allocation of delegates is most assuredly not up in the air

That is proceeding according to the DNC approved plan. The "top two" primary system is an entirely different kettle of fish. Quite a few LD organizations are seriously pissed off about being required to nominate just one candidate for state representatives and/or senator at their LD conventions that this idiotic ruling made necessary.

My point about Gregoire is that no matter how much she dislikes Sims, she would NEVER in a million years call him less qualified for the governorship than Dino Rossi. And you know damned well that was the point. Clinton was campaigning for McSame, and it was disgusting.

[ShadowLiberal]

151. I agree, it's long past time to stop taunting and attacking each other

I'll admit I was doing some Hillary bashing early on, but now I rarely do it. We need to unite, and not screw it all up and get a president McCain because some guys had to celebrate in an offensive way to Hillary supporters.

[MethuenProgressive]

178. I recomment this post.

:thumbsup:

[Elspeth]

152. "hurling insults at farmers and truck drivers " Imagine that. (Sounds like you guys)

That's why the article has credibility. I've seen all that behavior--and more--here.

[McCamy Taylor]

155. This is a corporate media attack on the Democratic Party nominee to divide and conquer us

Do not fall for it. Now that everyone is starting to "play nice" the MSM is desperate to interject race back into the race. Do not forget that the military industry is important in Seattle and they favor McCain.

[POAS]

156. This opinion piece has it rather backwards

Clinton supporters need Obama is they hope to keep John McCain out of the WH.

Clinton supporters need Obama if they hope to keep the SCOTUS from becoming a branch of the Republican party for the next 20 years, or longer.

Clinton supporters need to look in the mirror and see what they have writen,and said about Obama and his supporters. To use a well worn adage, Pot meet Kettle.

Forget your wounded egos and bitterness, support the Democratic candidate or live with the consequences for you and your children!

[Perry Logan]

159. "Unwise" was calling her and her supporters racists. The word for that is "dumbshit."

[Bonobo]

162. Oh noes! Another: "Don't make me angry. You won't like me when I'm angry" thread.

Are you Bruce Banner?

[Name removed]

164. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MethuenProgressive]

170. Any DU member caught having a sockpuppet should be tombstoned.

I wish that was a rule!

[Robbins]

174. Let's see

Hillary,Bill,and many of there supporters here have not only attacked Obama but many of his supporters.This Is sure calling the kittle black.Their attacks on Obama and us stop then we
should reach peace.Till that day comes there will be no peace.

[Lord Helmet]

182. when are you goning to get it through your thick skull that she lost?

[Joey Liberal]

184. Fuck Hillary n/t

[MethuenProgressive]

187. Please post your personal fantasys in the lounge, not GD-P.

Thanks.

[Joey Liberal]

188. I'm not into farm animals

So Hillary has nothing to worry about:).........

[VotesForWomen]

194. didn't you mean, say hello to President McCain? heh. nt

[mmonk]

186. Why isn't it unwise for Clinton supporters to attack Obama?

[Name removed]

192. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LaurenG]

193. I am not buying what you or the talking heads are selling

Personally, I am done being manipulated and emotionally blackmailed by people who say they will vote McCain if they don't get their way.

Time will tell what American's will do, and knowing how much America is looking for a change from bush I doubt they will vote McCain. In fact the only real support McCain is getting at this point is from die hard Rush/Hannity fans and Clinton's angry mobs.

People will either do the right thing or they will take this country to a new low. I won't pander or beg any democrat to do the right thing but I certainly will blame those Clinton supporters who have been saying they will vote McCain if they don't get their way.

It will be on their heads just like this last eight years is on the bush republicans. How anyone can say they are democrats and then vote against their own best interests (SCOTUS) is counter intuitive if not masochistic.

[Perry Logan]

196. Operation Turn Down - the anti-Obama movement in the Democratic Party

"Looks like Steve Corbett PA Radio host at wilk network has caught the attention of The DNC, yesterday Corbett launch Operation Turn Down campaign to let the DNC know that true Democrats were not voting for Obama. The phones lines lit up; calls came from state after state, blogger from a site called Confluence and others posted Corbett Operation Turn Down and the blog sphere was at a buzz. State after state voters calling and pledging they would under no circumstance vote for Obama this has to be the DNC nightmare. Operation Turn down continues Friday at 3 p.m. EST tune in folks this is going to be huge."
http://wilknetwork.com

[dcindian]

197. Someone has to stand up for Democrat values.

I for one am sick and tired of the right wing mores Hillary brings to the table.
I do not go for things like threatening to murder the children of an entire region. Things like the racial smears she uses to belittle Obama supporters.

If Hillary was born in Iraq instead of the US she would have been one of the people in the deck of 50 a person who would do anything to anyone just to get some power.

Just look at the way her sick and twisted campaign has soured the minds of Democrats in the US. Now imagine that occurring in all 50 of the States.

No sorry, Hillary deserves each and every attack she gets.

[B Calm]

198. What kind of bullshit article is this, and why are you posting this garbage?