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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 01:03 AM
Original message
A dreamier Democrat 'dream ticket'
Edited on Thu May-15-08 01:07 AM by mystieus
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/15/2245217.htm

May 14, 2008

By David Lundberg

Senator Barack Obama's campaign has not yet achieved a majority at the 2008 Democratic National Convention, but his ultimate victory over Hillary Clinton is no longer in doubt.

The Democratic "Super-delegates" are moving in increasing numbers to Obama, and he has just received the important endorsement of former rival John Edwards. When he becomes the Democratic party's presumptive nominee (with a majority of Convention delegates indicating their support) Barack Obama will need to choose his running mate.

This is an analysis of the merits of one possible scenario: Kathleen Sebelius, Governor of Kansas, as Obama's vice presidential running mate.

To be clear, an Obama-Sebelius 'dream ticket' is not a forecast or a prediction, but a possible scenario.

The Clintons previously proposed a Clinton-Obama 'dream ticket' as a nomination campaign tactic, when criticism began to grow about the divisive effects of the continuing campaign. Others have proposed an Obama-Clinton ticket, but that would be more like a nightmare.

Superficially, the two complement each other's demographic support base very well. Hillary Clinton has been supported primarily by middle-aged and older women, white working-class and less well educated voters. Barack Obama has attracted his strongest support among a substantial new cohort of younger voters, African-Americans, affluent and more educated voters. However, a joint ticket between Obama and Clinton is probably no longer a viable proposition, if it ever was.

'Dog whistlers'

During the South Carolina primary, Bill Clinton asserted that Hillary could not win because more than half of the Democratic primary voters were black. This was a clumsy and unsuccessful "dog whistle" appeal for support from white Democrat voters in the numerous "super Tuesday" primaries that followed soon afterward. Bill Clinton's remarks were followed promptly by strong endorsements by the Kennedy family, who objected to the Clintons' "dog whistle" tactics. Senator Geraldine Ferraro and others subsequently also attempted to advantage Hillary Clinton by depicting Barack Obama as a marginal black candidate. Recently, Bill Clinton even accused Barack Obama of "playing the race card" against Clinton in South Carolina, in a rhetorical inversion of reality.

Hillary Clinton is of highly questionable value as a Vice Presidential running mate on an Obama Presidential ticket. Hillary Clinton's populist campaigning (particularly threatening nuclear annihilation of Iran) calls into question her suitability for presidential office. Politically, Hillary has intensified her polarising conventional politics image that is completely inconsistent with the unifying theme of Obama's candidacy.

Mobilisation of Republicans would be greatly assisted by having Hillary Clinton on the Democratic party ticket. She would come with a large nomination campaign debt.

Superior choice

Governor Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas is an altogether superior choice as Obama's vice presidential running mate. Kathleen Sebelius was elected as a Democrat Governor in strongly Republican Kansas in 2002 with 53 per cent and re-elected in 2006 with 57.8 per cent, proving a dazzling political talent.

She has been a highly effective Governor, turning a large state deficit into a surplus without a real increase in taxes, and improved funding for education. She has a reputation for achieving sustained bipartisan cooperation and is married to a Federal magistrate who is the son of a Kansas Republican congressman.

In 2005, Time magazine judged her one of the five best US governors. She was recently convener of the Democratic Governors' Association, reflecting the respect of her colleagues. Sebelius' father is a former Governor of Ohio, an important federal swing state. She is an articulate speaker with a presentation style that would complement Obama's.

Kathleen Sebelius would enhance Obama's electoral appeal and the political efficacy of his Presidency. She has personally endorsed Obama, and her policy record is very complementary to his, although she is somewhat more centrist. She appeals to a broad spectrum of American voters, including most of those who would have voted for Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primaries. Sebelius is a unifying politician like Obama, and she is a highly successful one, as her election winning margins in Republican Kansas and her successful bipartisan dealings with the Kansas State Congress indicate.

An Obama-Sebelius ticket would combine well with Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean's advocacy of building the Democratic party with a 50-state presidential campaign, not one simply focused on winning an Electoral College victory. The Republican party would have every reason to be demoralised.

Complementary

Why would a successful State Governor like Kathleen Sebelius give up that responsibility to acquire the office of Vice President that earlier generations of US politicians regarded with something approaching dread? Vice Presidents Al Gore and Dick Cheney have had a much more active and substantial role in the office than most of their predecessors.

Kathleen Sebelius' executive experience would complement Obama's legislative background, providing scope for her to have substantial Vice Presidential responsibilities from January 2009 to January 2017, instead of retiring in 2010 at the end of her second term as Governor.

Kathleen Sebelius would be the first woman Vice President. She would also make a substantial contribution to an historic Obama presidency that would change how Americans see themselves and how the US is perceived by others.

Substantial policy change in the US is needed. USA Today on April 21, 2008 reported that record numbers of US voters have expressed disapproval of President Bush and concern about the direction of national policy, and 69 per cent of US voters judge that Bush's presidency has been a failure.

The Republican Party will be in trouble in November 2008, and it has already begun using polarising and destructive negative tactics against Obama and other Democratic candidates, including subtle and blatant racism.

As the 2008 Republican presidential candidate, John McCain will have considerable difficulty separating himself from the Bush legacy, particularly US economic difficulties and Iraq, on which McCain and the Republican Party have nothing new to offer.

An Obama-Sebelius 'dream ticket' is a scenario that would offer substantial advantages in the November 2008 US election and as the new leadership of the United States from January 2009.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
1. But, they don't want to lose Kathleen in
Kansas, although, she sounds very complimentary to an Obama ticket. And, isnt' the VP usually groomed to be the frontrunner after the next 8 years?
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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. I know, she's great.
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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. that would be a dumb choice IMO
I think she would be great as labor secretary or something. but not VP.
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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Picking Sebelius would affirm Obama's core message
Sebelius's electoral success in traditionally Republican Kansas would also echo Obama's pledge to change the electoral map in the fall.
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Carrieyazel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. She wouldn't bring Kansas as a #2 candidate
even though she has the executive experience that Obama lacks.
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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. when you've run a Senate office and a national campaign
so well......I don't think you need executive experience of running a small population state.
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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. We don't know that.
The massive turn out all the states are getting, do in-part of the voter drive Sebelius is running. I believe a few states are in play.. including her home state of Ohio where her father was a popular Governor.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. So DLCers advising Obama on Economics (Goolsbee) and Labor (Sebelius)???
Another 8 long, devastating years for workers under this scenario?
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thoughtcrime1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
58. I like her as VP, she seems like a true leader of people
not an ego maniac on a perpetual power trip. SHe ran a state very successfully, and has more real experience than Hillary, for certain.
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swishyfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
6. McDreamy


Sorry.


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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
42. I've seen better, lol
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
7. One question:
Is she DLC?

Follow up: And if she is, is it out of belief in their "third way" or just a pragmatic hook up for political access to the power structure?
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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. So is Hillary... what's your point?
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. My point is I believe we should keep the DLC as far from the
corridors of power as is humanly possible. There's one way (Democrats) and a second way (Republicans). So where does that put the "third way" of the DLC?

Some - like Gore and Edwards - were once affiliated with the DLC, but upon recognizing their corporatist agenda severed their ties with the organization. In payment, they fucked Gore over in '00, and Edwards in '04. When Dean replaced DLCer McAuliffe as head of the DNC, and implemented the 50 state strategy, the DLC turned on him and organized the 'early primaries' rebellion which gave us the FL and MI debacle - just to fuck with Dean, because he repudiated their big-state big-money strategy (which has served Hillary so well).

That is the core of my opposition to Hillary - not her positions or voting history (with certain glaring exceptions), but her backing of the corporatist infiltration of the Democratic party with the resultant disparaging of unions, activists, populists - the traditional core of the party. If there truly are 'two Americas', the DLC has chosen with which one its sympathies lies, and it is NOT with progressive populists.

That's my point.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #11
22. well said
:thumbsup:
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
50. Thank you. (nt)
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. "change..."
:hi:
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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
45. Progressive
:patriot:
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Yes
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. And what about my 2nd question? Is it by conviction, or political
pragmatism?

I've got real problems with the DLC.

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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. It's Hard To Read People's Motives...
I suspect to get elected in a state like Kansas you can't move too far to the left...
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. She and Harold Ford co-authored this.

"And, so -- as chair of the nation's Democratic governors and chair of the Democratic Leadership Council -- we write to you today urging you to look to America's Democratic governors and New Democratic leaders for the policy innovations and pioneering approaches that will shape your campaigns for president.

"Democratic governors represent more than half of the American people in 28 states -- states which, incidentally, represent 295 presidential electoral votes. And the Democratic Leadership Council has, for three decades, been dedicated to the single principle that, in politics, ideas matter."

Source: http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=450015&subid=900152&contentid=254472


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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
13. The only thing wrong with this idea (and picture) is that I keep thinking of...
Edited on Thu May-15-08 09:47 AM by Tesha
Agent B and Agent K.



(Agent J and Agent L (Linda Fiorentino) would have
been far better, but I can't find any images of those
two together.)

Tesha
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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #13
23. lol, defeating the bad guys!
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. Whatever it takes! Noisy Cricket or Reverbrating Carbonizer! Lock and load!
Edited on Thu May-15-08 10:37 AM by Tesha
Or maybe even a Series 4 Deatomizer! Now that's what I'm
talkin' about! Just as long as we drive all the bugs out
of the White House in November!

Tesha
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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #27
41. No complaints from me, :)
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Stop Cornyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
14. I'm not sure Sebelius reaches a different constituency from those who are already Obama supporters.
Who would vote for Obama-Sebelius but wouldn't vote for Obama-anyone?
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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Obama rode to the nomination claiming that we are not a nation of red and blue states
Kansas is the reddest of states in presidential elections, and picking Sebelius would demonstrate Obama’s serious commitment to bridging the red and blue state divide.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. Good point and I'm listening
to the discussion ~ I see things I like about her...thanks
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Stop Cornyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #15
28. That's sort of my point. It would reinforce support he already has (and which doen't really need
reinforcing) but it would not bring anything new to the table. Don't get me wrong, I like Sebelius as a person and as a Democrat, but I doubt that she brings many new and different voters to the ticket. I'm hoping that the VP choice magnifies the size of our win and so I'm looking for someone who brings electoral votes to the table. This is where I think Sebelius does not stand out as a possible VP candidate -- in all other respects, she's great.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
43. all the Hillary supporters would flock to Obama
because Sebelius is a woman and all women are interchangeable.

:sarcasm:
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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. This is not a "woman" pick, Sebelius closest to his core message than any candidate
Compare the two females.

Hillary's record is a travesty. The only important thing she tried to do as first lady was head up that healthcare disaster. As senator she's treated New York as little more than a stepping stone. And as an executive in charge of her campaign, she's performed absolutely miserably.

Sebelius, on the other hand, has demonstrated competence in every way that matters at every stage of her career. I would love to see a President Sebelius someday.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. oh, fuck off with your "Hillary's record is a travesty"
Of course it's a "woman" pick. Do you think people are stupid?

Sibelius as VP is a joke. She wouldn't even bring Kansas with her.
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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. Bring facts not curse words.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. you back up your bullshit then
don't tell me to bring "facts" when you don't.



500 posts in 2 weeks, huh?

do they pay you by the word or by the hour?

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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. Perhaps I have alot to say and excited by this election, and what's it to you what my post count is
:shrug:
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
17. I'll kick this.
(got your pm late). Great article.
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book_worm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
24. She would be a much better choice than Hillary, that's for sure.
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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
40. The more I learn about this woman, the more I like her.She would make an excellent VP.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
26. not only does the VP have more power
but it seems they operate more as a team and so the question of who gets it has more significance. Seems to me the top 2 have to mesh very well in agenda and direction. Who brings in what votes has to be balanced with that. The idea that a woman "should" get it is not the highest consideration.
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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. If you read any article about a Obama/ Sibelius administration you would know
Edited on Thu May-15-08 10:51 AM by mystieus
She matches Obama's core message better than any other candidate. Being a "woman" is a plus but its not why he would pick her.

I wonder if anyone from the Obama organization reads these things.If so, then THIS lady has all the qualities of a Vice President. She has represented him all around the country. Very LOYAL,smart, and regal lady.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. Oh I think Sibelius has many plusses
and I wouldn't be surprised if she made the short list. If Obama picked her I'd trust that.

But I wouldn't like to think she was picked because she's a woman to appease Hillary supporters. After Hillary's 'scorched earth,' I'm not sure it's a great time for a woman on the ticket. I'm not sure Hillary's doing a service to women candidates at this point. If she had stopped short of Rethug tactics I think she certainly could have been a trail blazer. Now I put her in the Ferraro category, that basket for rather flawed female candidates. Women like Sibelius will have to continue to prove themselves as "not a Hillary" IMO.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #31
52. If Obama picked her I'd trust that.
I'm somewhat worried about the DLC connection, but it does souond like she may be using the DLC for political access without subscribing to their "third way" non-Democratic agenda. Obama has had enough recent experience with DLC tactics that I don't believe he would never tag her if she was a DLC true believer.

I don't see a woman VP as being a problem at all - in fact, a competent, successful woman like Sebelius would stand out in contrast to what we've seen from Hillary in the past few months, and that contrast would, I believe, enhance her position. Of course, the same would apply to any of several other potential female VP picks. Whoever it is could be the first woman president in '16.

Which would sort of make Hillary the party's Moses - the good, but flawed leader who showed the way but never got to the promised land.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. She's more than that.
She stands up to the corporations in terms of the environment. When she ran for Insurance Commissioner, she refused money from insurance interests. She blocked a merger of Blue Cross Blue Shield and an Indiana insurance company. She knows how to win when faced with republican legislation and help defeat it.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Well that's certainly a big plus
thanks.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. She also opposed a ballot measure that made
same sex marriage in the state unconstitutional and opposes capital punishment.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. like someone else said here
maybe Kansas needs her more....to consolidate some of those hard-won gains
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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Her term will be up, she cant run anymore, so that argument is moot
I, for one, am totally for it. She seems like a mature and nice person. Shes appealing and I like the way she talks, she also looks down to earth and honest when she speaks.

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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #39
51. OK thanks
well hopefully she will get a little more TV exposure...

We'll see if she will fit the Obama campaign's various needs. I'm skeptical that they will pick a woman.
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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
34. Kansas governor says Obama's the nominee
http://www.fortmilltimes.com/124/story/164636.html

COLUMBUS, Ohio — Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius is not pushing for Hillary Rodham Clinton to quit the race even though Sebelius says Barack Obama will be the Democrats' nominee.

Sebelius, an Obama supporter whose name surfaces often on lists of Democratic vice presidential candidates, said in Columbus on Thursday that the math adds up for Obama to win the nomination.

Sebelius says she believes Clinton will decide the appropriate time to exit.

Sebelius brushed off questions about whether she'd accept an offer to serve as vice president. She says she's focused on getting Obama elected.

Sebelius is in Columbus to celebrate a new institute studying the life of her father, former Ohio Gov. John Gilligan.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
36. Not a bad choice, but I'd personally aim for strict electorals.
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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. Which she can help bring.
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Willo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #46
56. Thanks for that article, Mystieus.
I like Sebelius a lot. Kansas Insurance Commissioner - so she knows healthcare too. I know she's strong on education. That's a good combination.

I worry (though, a bit less so now), how she'd hold her own in the GE.
Also, who are her (and her father's) strong supporters?


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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
37. Napolitano. That is all.
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latinolatteliberal Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
48. The more I learn about her, the less convinced I am.
(about who I want the VP to be) You see, I like Richardson, but she is starting to look good to me. So is Napolitano, actually. A good problem to have, I guess.
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sfam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
49. Its funny that Australians think nobody has heard of her...she's clearly...
on the short list. I think she'd make a great choice, although I think Obama has about 3-4 quality choices at this point.
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
55. Dreamy is right - she put the whole nation to sleep with the Dem
response to the SOTU. Put her on the cabinet - but no way for VP. Like it or
not, we need a very, very, very strong military person or diplomat for VP
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