Bill Clinton calls for revote, says FL would not be treated this way if vote went "the other way."

[madfloridian]

I don't think they realize how odd this sounds to keep saying this stuff about a revote. Today Bill Clinton in Montana called again for a revote. He suggests that Obama refused a revote.

He went so far today as to say that he thought his wife was "being punished", and then he asks a strange question. Very strange. I have posted this in comments here today and got no response, but it is very odd.

He says:

And I just ask you all this, do you really believe Florida would be getting this kind of treatment if the vote had turned out the other way?”

That sounds very much as though he is accusing the DNC of favoritism. Very wrong thing to do.

He even used the words "superficial fairness" in referring to the DNC's actions about the rules.

From First Read:

Bill Clinton elaborates on FL and MI

For more than six minutes, Clinton went through the timeline of how both states lost their delegates, and who was to blame. While he has made the case before, he placed new emphasis on it today, as it becomes clearer that seating the delegates from both states is one of the few remaining options to help Hillary Clinton defeat Obama.

“Hillary offered a revote in Michigan; we offered a revote in Florida,” Clinton said. “In both cases, the other campaign said, ‘Nope, no re-vote, we will just see what to do when this thing is over.’ Why would we put Michigan at risk and pretend that these people didn't show up and pretend that somehow she is responsible and the voters themselves are responsible and she should be punished for what intermediaries did?”

Clinton said the removal of Florida and Michigan had a “superficial element of fairness” because Obama and John Edwards took their name off the ballot. But, he added, they did that because Hillary Clinton was ahead in the polls and there was a “very organized and funded campaign to get everyone to vote uncommitted.” However, Clinton herself said last fall that the Michigan contest was "not going to count for anything."

First off, let's get something straight. Howard Dean OFFERED the two campaigns a chance to have a revote. He even asked them to do so. He did NOT keep them from having a revote. Other entities stopped it.

From March:

Florida Revote Plan Scuttled, Michigan Plan Stalls

Florida Democrats reversed course Monday and declared dead their plans to hold a do-over presidential primary to settle the dispute over whether their delegation to the national convention in Denver will be seated.

Karen Thurman, Democratic Party chair in Florida, announced the decision in an e-mail message Monday afternoon, saying thousands of people had responded negatively to her proposal for a vote-by-mail primary in early June.

"We spent the weekend reviewing your messages, and while your reasons vary widely, the consensus is clear: Florida doesn't want to vote again," she wrote. "So we won't. A party-run primary or caucus has been ruled out, and it's simply not possible for the state to hold another election, even if the Party were to pay for it."

The DNC cooperated further by calling a meeting of the Rules committee on May 31 to hear appeals on the issue. But it was NOT the DNC or the Obama campaign that stopped the revote in Florida. Here is more information.

Florida House Dems refuse revote

To the extent that both sides hold out hope that Howard Dean will allow some sort of compromise, it just does not seem as if either side knows Howard Dean. He has said that there are only two options: that the delegations take their fight to credentials committee, or that they attempt to vote again, provided that said vote is approved by the DNC's rules and bylaws committee. There are no other alternatives. He did not say: "There are no other alternatives, except for the other other alternative, which is some extra-juridical solution that involves a backroom deal."

Let's set the record straight on who stood up against the revote that Bill Clinton is demanding at this late date.

Nelson and Levin say no revotes in their states.

Sens. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and Bill Nelson (D-Fla.) dismissed the possibility in interviews on Tuesday. Levin and Nelson said caucuses would effectively void the primaries in each of their states, and are pushing to have their delegates receive full voting power at the convention.

They did not want a revote, they wanted the original primary dates to count because by March Obama was moving up in the polls.

Who else did not want the revote?

Hillary co-chair, Debbie Wasserman Schultz fought the revote.

"The potential of a do-over is slim to none," said Wasserman Schultz, a national co-chair of Clinton's campaign. "The cost of a do-over is beyond reach. A do-over would be unfair. We still have nerves that are very raw from the 2000 recount in Florida."

The people on the Clinton campaign need to figure out the real story behind the lack of a revote. It is not productive for Bill Clinton to be pushing this today on the campaign trail.

Nor is it productive for him to imply that the party chairman is not being fair to his wife.

[MadMaddie]

1. Yawn.....this is getting old isn't it?

They broke the rules.....we are not Republicans who change the rules when it conveniences them.

[PoliticalAmazon]

34. ITA. With every word, he proves that he is irrelevant. On to the GE! n/t

[pokercat999]

82. And not very much as a comedian either......nt

[ZinZen]

92. Say goodbye to your legacy Bill.

[liberalcommontater]

75. They?

The Clintons broke the rules? The people of Michigan broke the rules? No. A revote in both states will give legitimacy to the winner at the convention. I look forward to your "yawn" if there is a revote or if the delegates are seated according to the original vote.

[paulk]

78. apparently we ARE Republicans - or at least some of us are

when it comes to disenfranchising millions of voters if it benefits our candidate.

Kind of reminds me of the 2000 election....

[sendero]

85. Are you mad about how this went down?

TAKE IT UP WITH YOUR STATE GOVERNMENTS. It is NOT THE DNC's OR THE REST OF THE COUNTRY'S PROBLEM.

[paulk]

87. of course it's the DNC and it's chairman's problem

it will be their problem if enough people in MI and FL decide to sit this election out and we lose this Nov.

it will be their problem if enough people decide not to donate to the DNC that it affects our election efforts and party building.


it's funny - people have the annoying habit of blaming the leader of an organization when that person makes a decision that they don't agree with. Especially when that decision has a direct impact on something that's important to them.

[tridim]

2. Please quit being a dick Bill.

[BattyDem]

3. They're throwing the entire party under the bus

They are actively trying to turn voters against the DNC, the DNC chairman and the presumptive nominee. Why are the SDs allowing this to continue?

[wileedog]

4. Please. Just. End. This. Bullshit. nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

12. Amen to that.

[Texas Hill Country]

32. then they need to come out and make a friggin decision and hold a re-vote

[wileedog]

47. To what end?

Unless by some miracle she pulled 80% in both MI and FL, its $50M poured down the toilet so we can hand out "I Voted" stickers in two states that broke the rules anyway, and Obama still has more delegates anyway.

Can we just get on to winning the GE already? FOr a group of people so worried about Obama winning the GE, you all seem to have no problem coming up with shit daily to help him lose it.

[MannyGoldstein]

5. Narcissistic Personality Disorder

DSM Criteria

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:<1>

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique
4. requires excessive admiration
5. has a sense of entitlement
6. is interpersonally exploitative
7. lacks empathy
8. is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_d...

[polpilot]

13. DAHS

Dumb Ass Hillbilly Syndrome-Bill has it.

[grassfed]

72. Feminists ignored Bill's sexual opportunism with intern

Talk about a power imbalance. If this had been the owner of a coffee shop and a waitress they'd have picketed. Sad commentary.

Hypersexuality is desire to engage in human sexual behavior at a level high enough to be considered clinically significant. Hypersexuality is characterized by a debilitating need for frequent genital stimulation which, once achieved, may fail to result in the expected long-term sexual—or emotional—satisfaction. This dissatisfaction is what is believed to encourage the heightened frequency of sexual stimulation, as well as additional physiological and neurological symptoms.
The concept of hypersexuality replaces the older concepts of nymphomania (or furor uterinus) and satyriasis. Nymphomania was believed to be a female psychological disorder characterized by an overactive libido and an obsession with sex. In males the disorder was called satyriasis (for etymology of the words, see nymph and satyr). "Nymphomania" and "satyriasis" are no longer listed as specific disorders in the DSM-IV, though they remain a part of ICD-10.
The threshold for what constitutes hypersexuality is subject to debate, and critics question whether a standardized diagnostic threshold even exists. Sex drive varies widely in humans; what one person would regard as a normal sex drive might be deemed to be excessive by some and low by others. The consensus among those who consider this a disorder is that the threshold is met when the behavior causes distress or impaired social functioning.
Hypersexuality may also be expressed in those with bipolar disorder during periods of mania. People who suffer from bipolar disorder may often display tremendous swings in sex drive, depending on their mood. Sometimes this physiological need for sexual activity is much higher than what they would describe as "normal" and at other times it is far below that

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

6. telling lies to low information voters works, and he knows it

someone has to get the information out there to the world.

Or to the remaining states.

Maybe submit it to www.OpEdNews.com which reachs alot of people.

www.talkingpointsmemo.com has a good audience too.

[madfloridian]

10. You could do that.

I just "know" you could do it well.

[AtomicKitten]

7. Ah, for crissakes, stick a fork in it, Bubba. It's over.

[Owl]

86. You've got that right.

[JVS]

8. I see two possibilities here

A) Bill doesn't think that the committee is going to go her way in it's decision

B) Bill's math is telling him that even if seated, FL and MI won't be enough for her.

As an aside, I find it disturbing that Clinton interprets a stripping of delegates that took place long before any vote was cast as a move against his wife. How could the DNC have predicted way back then that this move would work to her disadvantage? This is a new level of paranoia.

[Raineyb]

9. This has become annoying

Would someone please tell the former president to STFU?

I would greatly apppreciate it. I've grown extremely tired of both Clintons.

Regards

[Barack_America]

11. Or for christ's sake, give her FL, it's still O-V-E-R.

Stop making a sorry spectacle of yourself, Bill.

[rebel with a cause]

14. Meanwhile, it was Hillary that refused to accept the Michigan proposal.

Just because it only gave her ten more deligates than Barack and she wanted them all.

[Beregond2]

15. Every word out of his mouth

makes him look more petty and foolish. How the mighty are fallen.

[Medusa]

16. Just let him keep talking

He's not Hillary's greatest asset.

[pnorman]

17. Bill Clinton should have put his heart and soul behing calling for a revote of the Florida elections

in 2000! Try to imagine what a Century of Hope this might have been!

pnorman

[Texas Hill Country]

38. too bad Brazile and Gore distanced themselves from a popular sitting president

that campaign was full of DUMB

[Justitia]

18. Well, he's a proven, on the record, liar. Go away, Bill.

[dansolo]

19. Does he think the members of the Rules Committee are not listening?

How does he expect them to rule in his favor when he keeps insulting them?

[madfloridian]

28. Of course they are listening....

You know stuff like this angers them. It is just so wrong.

[Cha]

20. STFU, bil clinton you fucking

toolmeister. It has nothing to do with Obama and everything to do with your ugly dlc types in Florida.

[sfam]

21. Feel sorry for him. This is what we'll remember about Bill Clinton in years to come...

Not his Presidency, but that he became an insane shill for his wife, and would do "whatever it took" to win, even when it was clear he wouldn't win...

[madfloridian]

27. I agree with you.

It is not good to see this kind of thing. It did not have to be this way. It is like they took on the party itself as much as they did their opponent.

[Generic Brad]

22. I'm still waiting for a 2000 Florida recount

Get in line, Mr. President.

[Raster]

24. Thank you!

[Quixote1818]

23. K and R for laying out the facts so nicely. nt

[madfloridian]

25. Just watched Dean on Jay Leno. Talk about fair?

He was totally not taking sides. Good job.

[SoCalDem]

30. FL & MI are classic Mom v Child issues and easily understood

by anyone over 2.

Mom says "don't do it"
Kid says "I'm gonna do it"
Mom says "If you DO, you WILL be punished"

Kid DOES "it"..

Mom issues punishment..

Mom does not say ..Goodie for you, you little darling..we're throwing you a party and raising your allowance

[madfloridian]

26. Dean on Leno tonight talked about a lot of these things.

Can't find a video or transcript though. Great interview.

[SoCalDem]

29. Poor Bill.. He's "truth-telling"...but by accident

If FL had "gone the other way". Mzz Hillie would have been denouncing them for "spoiling yet another election", and DEMANDING that they get their just punishment

[Terri S]

31. Kicking so that everyone has it clear in their minds about this revote business

Great job, madfloridian!

[madfloridian]

70. It doesn't seem to matter.

I am getting a post ready about county delegates who blame Dean for all of it...including the county chairman and a city commissioner.

It is almost hopeless.

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## DON'T DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v4.1
==================



This week is our second quarter 2008 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Whatever you do, do not click the link below!

[NatBurner]

35. i'm getting so desensitized to this shit

it's like listening to a chained-up dog yapping after you're already halfway down the street

[reflection]

36. Thanks, madfloridian.

The time and effort you put into these updates keep all of us well-informed. It is much appreciated.

[DefenseLawyer]

37. Yo, yo, yo, wrap it up, B!

[Occam Bandage]

39. Given that Clinton reversed her position after she won FL, and that Obama/DNC has been consistent...

...yes, I think things would be turning out differently.

[cali]

40. Quite simply, he's a liar. Always was, always will be.

[Harry Monroe]

41. WAAAAHHHH, WAAAAAHHH, FUCKING WAAAAHHHH!!!

Bill please do us a favor and take Olberman's advice SHUT.THE.FUCK.UP!!!!!!

I know he said "HELL" but I know Olberman would have dropped the "F" bomb if he knew he could have gotten away with it!!

[Myrina]

42. .. it appears as though Bill HAS been inhaling ...

[dchill]

43. It's all about playing the victim card.

He's asking for something that simply cannot happen, knowing that even if it did, that Hillary could actually LOSE to Obama. HE thinks it's productive - to prevent Obama winning the state in November.

[frog92969]

62. That's all it could be.

Sabotage for November.
Florida won't save her either way.

[dchill]

74. Doesn't take much of a detective, ...

does it?

[nichomachus]

44. Bill just put the deed to his legacy into the pot

and he's drawing to an inside straight

and he needs two cards to make the straight

bad move Bill.

[dchill]

48. His legacy was already in the pot.

He's writing IOU's now.

[madfloridian]

45. Dean discussed FL and MI on Leno....video link ...

It is hard to navigate with all the ads, and you have to pick the segment from the picture menu at the bottom.

He said the people of Florida were not guilty, it was their politicians. They expected the FL and MI leaders to behave differently than they had. Said they would be seated in some way at the convention.

http://www.nbc.com/The_Tonight_Show_with_Jay_Leno/video...

[Eurobabe]

46. hey Bubba, go buy some cubans and STFU. n/t

[redqueen]

49. I wish the M$M wouldn't help feed this delusional BS.

[Deep13]

50. Again, whatever fuck-ups were made by party or state officials...

...the bottom line is that an entire state--actually two of them--has been disenfranchised. By allowing that to stay, we spit in the faces of the Founders, civil rights leaders like Martin King and Fredrick Douglass, Suffragettes like Cady Stanton and J.W. Howe and those who fought to give under-21 adults the vote like RFK. Non-democracy cannot be an option for this country and especially the DEMOCRATIC party.


We absolutely must have MI to be competitive in November. We fail to lay the foundation for a majority if we fail to win MI. A loss of any of the "Dukakis Five" is fatal to our side. Granted, they may vote D. anyway in the fall, but their disenfranchisement is a pretty big arrow in the R. quiver especially when the presumptive nominee was the one (by lack of stipulation) who prevented their delegates from being seated.

If we do win Michigan and the rest of our must-have states, we must next win two of PA, FL and OH. As with MI, disenfranchisement is a pretty big arrow in the R. quiver.

So if we want to win and we want to be right, FL and MI must be counted.

[madfloridian]

51. Could you list your "must have" states?

What makes you think we can not win in both states even if the delegations are counted in part?

I think the people are smarter than that.

They are not going to be fully counted even though they are seated.

It is time for the threats to stop that we will lose if one side does not get its way.

[Deep13]

56. Gore or Kerry + 1.

I've already explained what makes me think that. I've said nothing about counting in part. That is what the R.s did. By doing so, they avoided the claim of disenfranchisement. No one on the D side seems to have offered that as a solution.

"They are not going to be fully counted even though they are seated."

Obviously, I'm speaking of their voting rights, not their seating arrangements.

"It is time for the threats to stop that we will lose if one side does not get its way."

As long as it's HC's side that doesn't get its way, I guess. Anyway, even if I shut up, what I am writing is still true. I guess in a campaign that focuses on belief and hope, examination of reality is not too important.

[madfloridian]

58. The other 48 states matter also.

Every other state is just as important.

The arrogance of FL democratic leaders hurt the whole party.

[DirtyDawg]

52. The sooner we get...

...the Clintons and the Bushes out of our lives and our politics, the sooner we can get on with turning things around.

[FlaGranny]

53. I actually wouldn't mind

a full re-vote in both states. I betcha Clinton would lose ground if it happened.

[swag]

54. I've finally gotten that famous "Clinton fatigue" that I've heard so much about.

[frog92969]

64. My condolences.

They don't make it easy.

[billyoc]

55. The "woman diet" doesn't seem to be agreeing with our Bill, eh?

[penndragon69]

57. You break the rules...

and you pay the price! Mich. and FL. may bitch and moan but now they know what it's like for voters in Indiana,Oregon,W.Virginia,Kentucky and Puerto Rico etc.
If the party is over even before you are invited to have your say, you
just end up with everyone else's leftovers.

Welcome to reality folks!

[TBF]

59. OK, Bill has shown poor judgment when it comes to women in the past,

but he really was a good president. It is too bad he is intent on destroying his legacy. Wasn't it just a few weeks ago he was telling us all to "calm down"? And now he's out stirring it up again...

[rodeodance]

60. ah, bringing in RW smears about Bill C. .

[RufusTFirefly]

61. Bill, meet "the Fonz"

[DefenseLawyer]

67. AAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

63. Eat us! Hey, it's Thanksgiving Day! Eat us, we make a nice buffet!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIufyg09WnQ

Eat us! Hey, its Thanksgiving Day!
Eat us, we make a nice buffet!
We lost the race with Farmer Ed,
eat us 'cause we're good and dead.
White man or red man from east, north or south,
chop off our legs, and put 'em in your mouth!

Eat me!
Sautéed or barbecued!
Eat me!
We once were pets but now we're food!
We won't stay fresh for very long!
So eat us before we finish this song!
Eat us before we finish this song!

[KamaAina]

65. I can't believe I'm saying this,

but Bill, just zip it!

[spanone]

66. did bill go out on a limb for gore in 2000?

[Clear Blue Sky]

68. Bill should get back out on the $150K lecture circuit to pay Hillary's campaign debt...

[kwenu]

69. The Clintons are being indulged by even being allowed to stay in the race this long.

It is just pathetic that the quintessential establishment couple is now whining about being mistreated knowing full well that no other candidate would have their "fight to the last breath" stance tolerated in a primary.

The Clintons need to go so they will stop embarrassing themselves. Please Clintons, stop making us dislike you.

[lojasmo]

71. I hate those two more and more each day.

[Doityourself]

73. He's calling for a revote because he knows she's done! They want a revote so they can try to garner

more than the current numbers because they now know, even if MI & Fl are seated as is...Hillary still loses.

This is just another goal post to stall the inevitable. Bill just can't believe, a junior senator whipped not just Hillary, but him too and their whole machine.

It's over Bill...just accept it.

[madrchsod]

77. bill should have known....he tried to hire david axlerod in 1992

bill really wanted axlerod to run his presidential campaign . axlerod was conflicted but david turned bill down because he wanted to stay in illinois.

axlerod did work for hillary during her senate run by producing commercials for her...

they knew what david could do...but they stuck with penn

[Mithreal]

76. do you really believe FL'd be getting this kind of treatment if the vote had turned..."

No, I wouldn't be surprised if Obama let the issue go, since it would make no difference to his numbers.

Does corporate media want to overhype Democrats as not counting every party vote as a counter to the criminal treasonous history of the Republicons wrt counting votes? Are certain Democrats helping them do this?

In this case, the needs of the United States outweigh the needs of Florida.

[Phred42]

79. Wild BIll needs to STOP trying to change the rules to suite himself/herself

[DWilliamsamh]

80. Yeah Bill... your right. Never mind the fact that Hillary signed the pledge

The ALL the candidates did, supporting the DNC penalty BEFORE the fact. Yeah that has nothing to do with it. God I can't believe the amount of animus I feel for a man I once had the utmost respect for. Hope fully after this is all over and he has stopped scratching and clawing at the heart of the DNC, I can regain some of that respect again.

[tekisui]

81. Ever the victim....

[Meshuga]

83. Come on Bill!

WTF! Your wife is being classy and now you have to fuck it all up for her?

Bill Clinton dragged Hillary down this year. I feel bad for her. And I have lost all the respect I had for him.

[mcollier]

88. Somebody's sleeping in my bed...

Get over it! It will take the American People to fix the problems of the Bush Administration debacle, not a Clinton... It's not about you and that castle at 1600 Penn Ave.

[Meshuga]

90. What are you talking about?

I'm no clinton supporter.

[sofa king]

84. I say go ahead and have a do-over.

Let the Clintons pay for it. She won't win more than sixty percent of the delegates in the state and she'll still lose at the convention.

They'll also lose the chance to try to claim most or all of the delegates from Florida, which is the part which chaps my ass.

[madfloridian]

89. Bill Clinton's accusations toward Dean are being used here at DU

I probably would not have added to this thread, but I have seen 3 others today accusing the party chairman of favoritism toward Obama. Dean has remained scrupulously neutral, sticking strictly to the rules, and it is so unfair for the Clinton campaign to play the victim here.

It is a horrible thing to do. It is having an effect where I live, as our party is terribly divided. We do not even go to meetings anymore because of the way the Clinton supporters put all the blame on Dean and the DNC.

It is being done for a reason, not completely sure of it yet. Third party? Don't know. Getting rid of Dean? Not sure. He's not planning on staying anyway.

I found this today from Simon Rosenberg, a co-founder of the DLC with the Clintons, and a very close friend.

The Party Leader

"Obama will be controlling the Democratic convention," said Simon Rosenberg, a veteran of Bill Clinton’s 1992 campaign who is president of NDN, a progressive think tank, "and the entire convention will be about nominating him and his ascension to the top of the party.”

Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, will be there, too, with a prominent role. So will Nancy Pelosi, speaker of the House, and Harry Reid, the Senate majority leader. But even now, while these officials hold important jobs within the party, Obama is already consolidating his power -- and early strains are evident.

“We’re now going to see Sen. Obama’s insurgent campaign melding and becoming the party establishment,” Rosenberg said. “There is going to be a new Democratic Party. There is going to be an upheaval and a new order is going to emerge.”

[geiger]

91. thanks for keeping track of this. not their greatest hour, eh?

[Sancho]

93. I think that Karen Thurman was wrong to miss a chance for a revote.

The obvious solution months ago was to avoid a lawsuit, allow the candidates to campaign, and have another primary. I'm not in on the closed door discussions, but having the candidates traveling in Florida over the last two months, registering voters, and getting contributions would have been good for the DNC overall.

I have a real fear that a close election that comes down to a few states may lose Florida if the Democratic candidates aren't campaigning here.