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Oh, how sad. Krugman paraphrases Begala's "eggheads and African Americans"

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 02:42 PM
Original message
Oh, how sad. Krugman paraphrases Begala's "eggheads and African Americans"
I wonder if Paul Krugman is aware that he is paraphrasing the talking points used by Paul Begala on CNN this week?

Paul Begala on "eggheads and African Americans.

Video included.

“We cannot win with eggheads and African-Americans,” Begala warned, which got an animated rise out of Brazile, yielding laughter and applause from those in CNN’s studio.

CNN host Campbell Brown chimed in, saying of Obama, “Why hasn’t he been able to yet?”

Responded Brazile, “Do you think that Barack Obama would be leading in the pledged votes, the delegate votes, the money, if it was simply because somehow or another black people … became the majority? Barack Obama has won the hearts and the minds of white voters as well as black and Hispanics.


Now today I was reading Paul Begala's column. I saw the same thought that the Clinton campaign has been pushing this week....that Barack Obama is "unelectable" among a certain class of whites. Krugman pushes this theme. He uses different words than Begala, but they are the same thing.

Thinking About November

Ironically, much of Mr. Obama’s initial appeal was the hope that he could transcend these divisions. At first, voting patterns seemed consistent with this hope. In February, for example, he received the support of half of Virginia’s white voters as well as that of a huge majority of African-Americans.

But this week, Mr. Obama, while continuing to win huge African-American majorities, lost North Carolina whites by 23 points, Indiana whites by 22 points. Mr. Obama’s white support continues to be concentrated among the highly educated; there was little in Tuesday’s results to suggest that his problems with working-class whites have significantly diminished.

Discussions of how and why Mr. Obama’s support narrowed over time have a Rashomon-like quality: different observers see very different truths. But at this point it doesn’t matter whose fault it was. What does matter is that Mr. Obama appears to have won the nomination with a deep but narrow base consisting of African-Americans and highly educated whites. And now he needs to bring Democrats who opposed him back into the fold.


Paul Krugman just played the race card. He used the very same talking points that the Clinton campaign used when they played the very same race card.

He used the term "highly educated whites" in that same little snide way that her campaign uses to refer to "working class voters."

Somewhere along the line it became perfectly okay for Democrats to use the race and class cards against each other. Krugman and Begala used different terms, but they said the very same thing.

Very organized, guys. Way to go.

Dean supporters were called elite last time around. There was a Pew Study done counting only 11,000 online. It declared that Dean supporters were well-educated and had higher incomes than most. It was used to make us look "elite", and it was used against Howard Dean by the media.

There is really not much one can say now that stuns me. Someone in a thread today said I was posting from emotion. Yes, I most surely am......but it is true passion. Why are not the rest of you angry that the educated and enlightened are being treated as less important than others? Why isn't everyone angry at the putting down of intelligence and thoughtfulness.

As I said months ago this is my second time around as a "cultist", "elitist" and "kool aid drinker."

I was considered elite and a cultist when I supported Dean, and it is the same thing now that I support Obama.

Did you know the word "elite" was used freely in the 04 primary?

"Elitist" is used by the party's power people to keep upstarts in their places.

Do these words sound familiar?

As founder of the DLC, From has been pushing the Democratic Party to the right for nearly 20 years. He was in tall cotton, philosophically speaking, when an early leader of the DLC, Bill Clinton, was elected president in 1992. As Clinton's domestic policy guru, Reed pushed New Democrat ideas -- such as welfare reform -- that were often unpopular with party liberals.

"We are increasingly confident that President Bush can be beaten next year, but Dean is not the man to do it," Reed and From wrote. "Most Democrats aren't elitists who think they know better than everyone else."


And even more, they included three candidates among the elite who could not win because they were elite. Think about the inanity of this argument.

However, while support among educated elites may be responsible in part for Obama’s excellent fundraising, it will not necessarily translate to electoral victory. Gallup points out that in the previous three election cycles the democratic candidate receiving the most support from the most educated -- Howard Dean in 2004, Bill Bradley in 2000, and Bob Kerrey in 1992 -- did not go on to win the party’s nomination (despite a boost in fundraising). The last democrat to win the nomination with similar skewing in support by education was Michael Dukakis in 1988.


Dukakis, hmmm..now which Clinton surrogate used that term toward Obama supporters this week negatively? Will have to look it up.

There is not much else to be said now. It is obvious where Paul Krugman got his theme for this column. He played the race card. He just used different words than Begala did.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. Found it.. Begala used Dukakis negatively this week.
BEGALA: We cannot win with eggheads. Definitely (ph) different points. We cannot win with eggheads and African-Americans. OK. That's the Dukakis coalition which carried 10 states and gave us four years of the first George Bush.

President Clinton, you know, reached across and got a whole lot of Republicans and independents to come. I think Senator Obama and Senator Clinton both have that capacity. They both have a unique ability. Well, it's not unique. They both have it. They both have a remarkable ability to reach out to those working class white folks and Latinos.

Senator Clinton has proven it. Barack has not yet, but he can, and I certainly hope he's not shutting the door on expanding the party.

BROWN: OK. The eggheads and African-Americans, that's in a new coalition?"

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0805/06/se.02.html


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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Begala didn't mention that Dukakis won all the "big states" in the primary....
... he won Ohio, Texas, Pennsylvania, Florida. And went on to lose each of those states in the general election.

The Clintonistas love to use the "big-state primary metric" as a reliable indicator of how those states will go in the general election, but you'd never hear them apply the Dukakis Model to those claims.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. Krugman is an elitist so his opinion doesn't matter.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. krugman's a fookin' egghead.
Edited on Sat May-10-08 04:35 PM by zidzi
Don't tell me those tools aren't co-ordinating their mass message in a lame attempt to take out Obama.

Who knew krugman was such a tool?
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. Is what he said untrue in any way?
Please explain how this is the race card. If working class whites are not supporting Obama and someone says so, how is that the race card? Is any mention of race "the race card?"

I don't understand what you mean by the race card. Everyone here seems to have a different definition.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Perhaps it is time you figured it out. Classism and racism
There is something good about being educated and intelligent. They should not be putting it down. They are using "working class whites" as an insult to people who not only work hard but are intelligent.

They are insinuating those working class folks are racists and are not able to discern a good candidate.

It is both classism and racism.
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Thanks for talking down to me. How classy.
"They" are insinuating nothing. "They" are saying what the polls are saying.

Every mention of race here is met with accusations of playing the race card. Your post tells me only that you are critical of Clinton and looking for ways to criticize her no matter what she does.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. You need to get a tougher skin. They told me that....and I did get one
It is almost impenetrable now after all the attacks I have been through here.

The Clintons hurt the party by using race as an issue. Shame on them.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #20
47. Many Obama supporters used gender as an issue.
Every time they criticized HRC in sexist or misogynistic terms.

Shame on them.


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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
66. The Powers that Be also don't understand
That it is not necessarily two separate classes of people.

That you can be a cabbie who worked your way through school, and now are a mid level County employee.

Or a waitress who did a similar thing.

In our household we have gone full cycle.

From the "working class" back when wages were $ 17 an hour or more, and then when certain factors hit (especially immigration with its endless numbers of willing bodies) and our incomes were downsized, we returned to school to became mid level people with bennies and above average wages, then our jobs got outsourced and now we would be working class, except we are in our fifties and no one wants to hire us.

In a sense we have gone BEYOND full cycle!
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. **ONLY OBAMA's** Campaign and Supporters Are Allowed to Mention Race
Sorry, I'll resend the memo.
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sansatman Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
56. Race chasm is real
David Sirota has been writing a series about this and his premise seems to be holding up over time.


"The trend continued in the last few weeks, with Obama losing two states in the Race Chasm (Pennsylvania and Indiana) and winning one outside the Chasm (North Carolina). Nonetheless, the response to this phenomenon by some in the intelligentsia has been willful ignorance."

http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_9198873
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. So we are supposed to believe that tall, suave, charismatic, handsome, great orator
Edited on Sat May-10-08 03:08 PM by rosebud57
Obama is comparable to Dukakis?

And that the time and the concerns of the country, the no incumbency race, the right track/wrong track attitudes, the desire for change, a war that the majority of the public believes should have never been fought, the shifting percentages that identify with and have favorable views about Democrats, don't have any bearing on the equation?

Right.

Oops, forgot to mention, cool.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. I love how supporters of a candidate with 50%+ negatives claims..
...Obama cant win this demographic or that demographic in the GE.


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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. Question: If we were to go back to 2004, or even further...
... would we be analzying John Kerry, Howard Dean and John Edwards, and how much of the "white" vote each was getting? And would we be saying to John Kerry, "Well, he lost the white vote in such-and-such state by 23 points, so he can't win in the general"?

If we were to look at the exit polling data back then, or in 2000, 1992, 1988... I just kind of doubt that the candidates duking it out for the nomination were getting equal parts of the white vote, the African-American vote, the hispanic vote.

This is seeming to me more and more about perception, and less and less about reality.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
28. what is really sad it- Krugman's wife is black.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I don't read Dowd. Don't blame me for what Dowd says.
Hold your candidate responsible for the anger.

And don't use the word hypocrite with me.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. How would you know so much about past posting since this is your first day
Pizza where is the pizza man
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. There's a lot of first dayers around today.
Heh heh
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. pizza for everyone
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Should I have followed Hillary's press stories, when I am an Obama supporter?
or are you commenting about some other Obama supporter in particular? :shrug:
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. Maybe she was right...
I sure have been hearing a lot of people saying it lately...and by the way she has been acting I have felt like saying it,,,
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avenger64 Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
12. There's some statistics in the article as well, right?
"But this week, Mr. Obama, while continuing to win huge African-American majorities, lost North Carolina whites by 23 points, Indiana whites by 22 points. Mr. Obama’s white support continues to be concentrated among the highly educated;"

I mean, Krugman rarely throws stuff out of right field. The numbers seem to back up those 'talking points'. And this old, old, old strategy of referring to things you disagree with as 'talking points' is played out, especially to people who pay attention to the facts.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Well well, that could be because Hillary played the race card
in the weeks leading up to those primaries. You think?

Krugman, like Larry Johnson, like Joe Wilson. like some of the bloggers have put their credibility on hold to push Clinton talking points.

Of course Obama can win among those groups, when Hillary is not there with those robocalls that border on indecent.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
14. This after Hillary dissed "elitist economists" like Krugman who opposed her gas tax scam
Krugman's determination to be "right" about Obama reveals him to be just another petty, stubborn academic.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
19. It's wonderful, watching white folks be lightly scratched, and seeing the thin veneer wipe off.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
54. Actually, I'm kind of disturbed by it.
I can understand fear of "the other", yet I would have thought that a lot of the people I see spouting this kind of BS would be embarrassed to go on the record with such statements.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
21. Krugman and Campbell Brown are H.E. Whites. They are accusing fellow Whites of race & class treason
That is why they are so snide when Obama and his fellow highly-educated supporters attack NAFTA.

They cannot comprehend how "an educated person" would do so unless they were lying to voters
Krugman sees as beneath him anyway.

How much time has Krugman spent buying a home in a working class area? Oh, he wants them to have
the same opportunities he does and he's not going to handicap himself and his children by living
the lifestyle? Boo fucking hoo. That is Horatio Alger thinking for you. "We shouldn't HAVE
a working class. All white people should be well-educated and well-off. Blacks too, but only
the ones who assimilate. We can rely on immigrants to do our dishes."

That is the neoliberal vision in a nutshell. I see it in my ULTRA-LIBERAL neighborhood every day.
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avenger64 Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. What are H.E. whites?
What code are you speaking?
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Highly Educated.
It was a dog-whistle for elitist ears used to random use of acronyms as contractions in 19th century Victorian novels.

E.g. "my esteemed colleague B.O., Esquire, met with the B.M.O.C. today whom is a member of that esteemed class of scholarly youth that Mrs. H.R.C. previously described as an elitist..."

Actually I was just trying to quote Krugman within the confines of the subject line.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
24. God must love the common people... He made so many of them!
--Abraham Lincoln
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LizW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
26. Krugman's conclusion was
"Mr. Obama should center his campaign on economic issues that matter to working-class families, whatever their race."

Do you disagree?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Yes, but that does not make up for the rest of the column.
Not in my mind. I have saved his columns for years in a folder. He is one who has shocked me.
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LizW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. "The rest of the column" is really, really innocuous
Honestly. It's just a rather dry recap of what we all know so far. Looks like Obama will win, it's been tough, everyone will have to come back together. Yada, yada, yada.

Nothing to send for the smelling salts over.

Then way down at the end, he mentions what we ALL know and have heard over and over. Obama's support among working-class whites is weak lately.

Somehow you read snideness into this, and frankly I think that's just because you are pissed at Krugman because he didn't support your guy. Did you even notice that Krugman is NOT saying that Obama should not be the nominee because of that weakness -- he's suggesting how to overcome the weakness in the general election? You know, so Obama, a Democrat, can win?

I'll be glad when the punishment phase of the primaries is over and all the 40 lashes have been dealt out to those who didn't support Obama. THEN maybe we can get on with beating McCain.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. You don't get it at all.
This is not about Obama or Hillary or me.

It is about the pundits who are using the same themes as her campaign, to the point of losing credibility.

It is about injecting race and class and elitism into a race when it is going to harm the party.
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LizW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Maybe I don't get it.
Sometimes I feel like I've been set down on another planet.

I never thought that race and gender were not going to be a huge part of this campaign. And class and elitism are with us always, every single day.

How can we NOT talk about these things when we are deciding who will be our next leader? What kind of leader will we get if he or she encourages us to avert our eyes and pretend that these issues are nonexistent, or at the very least, unspeakable?

Do we live in a country where a woman can not be elected President? Do we live in a country where a certain percentage of white people will not vote for a black man? I want to know. How do we change it if we refuse to hear it?

This is how we find out how far we've come. Put two extremely ambitious people who each want to be President more than anything into the crucible and see what comes out. Of course they are going to use race and gender, and elitism and class, and so are the pundits, and the netroots, too. Everyone got into the act. You jumped in, too, by starting this thread.

This is what is supposed to happen, isn't it?

I don't get all the swooning and feigned outrage. These ARE the issues. This is what it's all about.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Oh, stop with the Taylor Marsh stuff.
That goes nowhere here.

The Clinton campaign in their own words used the Wright issue, the race issue. It has probably irreparably hurt them. They listened to the wrong people, and they have damaged themselves worse than Obama.

I hate that word swoon. That is just talk made up by her supporters. It is time to stop.

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LizW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. Address the point of my post, if you can.
Are you too afraid to talk about central issues? Just spew a bunch of insults and run?

Here's a newsflash: Obama used race in his campaign. He will continue to do so.

And it is absolutely acceptable for him to do so, but it is NOT okay for his supporters to pretend it is not happening, and then turn around and scream racism.

Pookie and Ray-ray? Brush your shoulders off? Okie-dokie and bamboozle? You know what that's all about, and only liars pretend it is not what it is.

If we are going to move this country forward with regard to race, gender, and gay rights, we can't have an unlevel playing field where the chosen get to talk about it and everyone else is forbidden. Yes, in an election battle, it's a good weapon: the big "R" and cries of KKK! David Duke! Progressives hate being called racists, and it usually shuts us up for a while as we go off into a worried spree of self-examination and concern. You can, undoubtedly, win a Democratic primary with the race card.

But it is no way to run a country, and I sure as hell hope Obama and his handlers know this.

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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. If so, why does he insist that HC's white support is somehow more valuable than BO's black support?
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Where are you getting that? n/t
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
33. it's funny about elite
On the one hand I am elite, because I have two university degrees. On the other hand I am not elite because I work as a janitor and do not make very much money.

But it's very simple. The educated and enlightened are treated as less important than other groups because of democracy. The simple fact is that we are a minority. Further, when education is combined with higher than median income, then we are resented, or hated, as well, by the majority.

I am not immune from that either. I was turned off by Kerry's huge wealth, and I was not happy about either Edwards' house nor his haircuts nor his working for a hedge fund.
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MagickMuffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
34. Birds of a Feather, or should I say Eggheads from the same Mold








It really says more about them then the voters. It always seems to me at least that NewSpundits want to marginalize the voters, in some sort of fashion. It's almost as if they resent us. I guess by Krugman's logic he is an Obama supporter.






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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
37. I notice Krugman has toned down his spiteful anti-Obama rhetoric of late.
Wonder if his wife had something to do with that?

This is mild ocmpared to some of the tripe he has spewed in his column.
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bulloney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
41. If "elite" means more educated, then good!
For too long, this country has been run by a president who appeals to the toothless knuckle-draggers whose selection process is, "Would you rather have a beer with the dumbass running for president, or the candidate who has a clue about the real issues facing this country?"
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
42. Krugman has been shilling for Clinton for a while now
It is unfortunate, but it does not surprise me that he would use Clinton talking points.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
43. If you believe what you're saying, then I have a great candidate for you:
George McGovern.

Krugman is right. Obama needs to reach out now to the groups that have been supporting Clinton. He won't win the election unless he can pull all Democrats together.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. He has been doing that.
This is a shameful way for her to exit, using race.

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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. He's won. His supporters need to concentrate on reaching out
and not denigrating HRC or her supporters.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. Perhaps you did not hear the Sunday shows today.
Perhaps you should read my post about McAuliffe on MTP.

I will stop being critical when her campaign stops ripping the party apart with race and class and everything else including the kitchen sink.

And they need to stop threatening us to be nice. Works both ways.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
46. Wow. That's disgusting. I'm SO disappointed in Krugman.
He's jumped the shark, Flipper AND Moby Dick.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
48. Who wrote this -- I can't tell:
"while support among educated elites may be responsible in part for Obama’s excellent fundraising"
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Political Wire.
I had the window open and forgot the link. Sorry about that.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2007/08/16/support_from_academic_elite_not_key_to_winning.html

"Support from Academic Elite Not Key to Winning
A new Gallup poll found that Sen. Barack Obama has much higher support among the most educated voters while Sen. Hillary Clinton receives more support from those with a high school diploma or less.

However, while support among educated elites may be responsible in part for Obamaís excellent fundraising, it will not necessarily translate to electoral victory. Gallup points out that in the previous three election cycles the democratic candidate receiving the most support from the most educated -- Howard Dean in 2004, Bill Bradley in 2000, and Bob Kerrey in 1992 -- did not go on to win the partyís nomination (despite a boost in fundraising). The last democrat to win the nomination with similar skewing in support by education was Michael Dukakis in 1988."
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. They need to be called out for their assumption that
"educated elites" are behind Obama's successful fundraising. :shrug:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. They did the same thing about Dean in 04
We were just ordinary people funding our candidate...nobody really got that upset then except us.

So it continued, and is going on now.

The "elite" started in the 80s...a tactic, an ugly one.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. That's right. This is what they did to Howard on steroids.
At least we have that experience under out belt now. We owe him a LOT.
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
55. Fuck Begala & fuck Krugman, too.
SOBs
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
57. Your post is at best misleading- probably because you haven't read Krugman's book
because if you had, you'd know EXACTLY where he got his theme- and you wouldn't be making ridiculous PC accusations about him "playing the race card."

Of course, now that Krugman is "bad," I don't expect the manicheans around here to read much of what he has to say objectively- much less critically think about the points he makes....
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. I used his own words in his own column.
He did say those words and they are the words being used by the Clinton campaign this week.

Race and class...it is getting old and I think we are past that unless a candidate keeps exploiting it for her own ends with the help of columnists.

It is setting the stage to hurt Obama, when most were beyond that race and class thing.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. Just becasue Begala said something similar
Edited on Sun May-11-08 03:09 PM by depakid
doesn't mean that he's parroting him- or has anything to do with him.

Krugman's book Conscience of a Liberal is for the most part, easily readable guide to the coalitions and politics of the last 100 years or so.

And race and class DO have an important role (as did unions). Then as now (unfortunately, the decline in union membership and the rise of far right media dominance means that the working class is less informed- or more often misinformed about what's in their best economic interests).

I see his most recent column as simply an extension of some of these ideas- and I'd recommend the book to anyone here who wants a more comprehensive understanding of trends in American politics.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. All I have heard all week from her surrogates is eggheads and African Americans
and there is no excuse for using that argument now. It is just way out of touch with most present time thinking. It is old politics meant to divide us.

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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. "It is just way out of touch with most present time thinking." What does that mean?
Seriously, what does that mean?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. They are playing the race card, putting down educated people
as not being as important as the "working class". Hell, I have been white "working class" all my life....and I see class and capability in Obama.

I see no color.

The Clintons are being racists.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
58. Wow! I remember when I used to like Begala
:puke: He has jumped the shark along with Clinton and all her bigoted surrogates.
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
61. entertain the possibility
that you are reading into Krugman's remarks way more than is actually there.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. I could do that, but I won't.
He said what he said. It is divisive and it is wrong for this time in our history.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
67. They are really trying to validate the KKK, which is not the business of the Democratic Party!!
Let the clansmen have Hillary or McClone or Ron Paul (most likely).
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BobTheSubgenius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
68. In many ways, I AM an elitist.
I WANT leaders to be smarter, better educated and more insightful than....well, me certainly.....more than the vast majority, if possible. I don't want to have a beer with them as much as I want to think that people are being led by those who have at least SOME claim to being "the best and the brightest."

I have PLENTY of people in my life with whom I can and sometimes do enjoy the occasional tasty beverage, but I can think of none of them that I'd like to see in public office. No, I want at least "smart" if "brilliant" is too much to ask for.

Clearly, this cursed mediocracy that somehow came into fashion hasn't worked out all that well.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. You make some very good points.
Lordy, I hope my leaders are way way smarter than me.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
70. Krugman has been kind of a hero. I just cut him loose. We don't
Edited on Mon May-12-08 09:11 AM by higher class
need a DLCer at the NYT. Perhaps I was just blind. Goodbye, Paul. No thanks for helping some Dems be dividers, poor deciders.

I pray that the DLC has to drop out. Perhaps it's as well to have another disappointmnent in my life now (the whole truth about the Clintons), rather than learn all the truth about the Clintons-DLC values later. I'm kind of glad for knowing now. It's amazing how a high opinion of the Clintons can change as much as mind has.

The DLC is not very Democratic. I can't think much about their values, but I learned starting in 2000. Who knew it would take a candidacy of the second Clinton to learn that. I am very sad for what is happening to whites and blacks by the DLC.

Of all the smart educated white people - how can they be so stupid?
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
71. When you see your power base eroding...this is what you get
Edited on Mon May-12-08 02:29 PM by Capn Sunshine
The final actions of the actual elite in this party are to convince us -or undermine our belief- that Obama is NOT the guy who can transcend all this bullshit.

They are going for the last weakness they can find. You can only raise the specter of Dukakis or Mondale so many times before the public gets wise that those campaigns were products of the very belief system the Clintonistas adhere to in the first place.

We are beyond that, honest.

Exhibit "A" is the 2006 election, the first chance we had to apply the lessons we have learned. If we had elected another Clintonista as DNC head, we would not have had the 50 state strategy.

Exhibit "B" is the off year elections where longtime red congressional seats went to Democrats.

Exhibit "C" is the NEW ELECTORATE WE HAVE INSPIRED by not going with the "business as usual" inside-the-beltway candidiate. All around the country new voters are being registered by the Obama campaign in droves. In the case of my historically & famously red county, for the first time since its founding registered Democrats have surpassed registered republicans.

These new voters will counterweight all the little splinters that feel threatened by losing their power,the ones threatening to vote McCain. Their numbers are are approximately three times as large as the traditional "swing" voter bloc that triangulating Red vs Blue partisan warfare counted on to get to 51%.

We're going to win this by a much larger margin than that.
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
72. BWAHAHAHA an economist complaining about intellectuals?
Christ, man, economists ARE ivory-tower eggheads, each and every one of them.

But, it does push the idea that those eggheads and darkies are "expected" to vote Democratic in november, so their opinion shouldn't count.
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