As an Obama supporter I have never been so embarrassed by my fellow supporters.

[Exultant Democracy]

All of this rending the garments over the ideal that Obama may pay off Clinton's campaign debt is some of the most absolutely absurd crap I have seen here in a long time. (yes even more absurd then the posters that think Clinton can still win)

In the first place, people who are getting up in arms over this are making themselves look like supremely and willfully ignorant political neophytes. This is a very very common practices and not just in primaries when it is Dem vs Dem but also in general elections Reps and Dems pay off each others campaign debts ALL THE TIME. This isn't some fancy scheme dreamed up out of nowhere to help out Clinton, it is in fact considered by many to be proper form.

Secondly if Obama pays off her debt it will be with his primary fund not his GE fund. So instead of spending god know how many more millions of dollars per state he can finish this on the cheap... and wait for it wait for it, Clinton has a gigantic GE war chest and Obama will be able to tap into it after the convention to a large degree and then DNC would be allowed to take even more from her (and she would probably follow Obama's example of generosity and spread a lot more that money around where it would do the most good.)


Third and most importantly you didn't donate to Obama just to beat Clinton in the primary, you donated so that he will win the White House in November. If Obama's team (and we must recognize that OBAMA'S TEAM IS ON THE BALL) thinks that 15 mil or so to pay off Clinton's debts is a good investment in the GE why do you think you know better.

So grow up and stop being so freaking stupid because it is seriously embarrassing to the rest of us. Obama has to win and then he has to govern effectively and you are not making either of those eventualities more probable with your pissing and moaning.

[mcctatas]

1. AMEN!

:applause:

[Exultant Democracy]

3. Glad I'm not alone on this.

[Labors of Hercules]

63. No, you are not alone.

There are a lot of ridiculous and stupid people in this world, so it stands to reason some of them will be Obama supporters. Fortunately, I think the majority of this particular demographic are supporting McCain or Hillary though, at least the ones who are here on DU. :shrug:

[K Gardner]

2. Chill out. Calling your "team" stupid isn't helping either. Let people vent. I think

after the pounding we've had to watch over the past two months from the media and her highness, we deserve to vent.

[mcctatas]

5. but on this issue?

I mean, it would gall me a little to see a millionare get her ill-advised investment debt paid off, but seriously, DID YOU SEE LARRY KING TONIGHT? There is some truly vent-worthy material :hi:

[K Gardner]

19. Don't get me started on Larry King again.. grrr !!!

[Cha]

24. We know the m$$$fm has it out for Obama

and have lined up dipsticks to come out and spew hatred and divisiveness and hope it takes where Wright didn't.

I could never watch the propoganda but I guess somebody has to for recon but it should be peeps with strong stomachs and nerves of steel.

[Exultant Democracy]

11. Not calling them stupids just pointing out that they are acting very stupid.

They need to hear it from someone on our side. I've seen on too many post about never donating to Obama again to just let this one pass.

I challenge Clinton supporters when they are hurting Obama and I feel free to challenge Obama supporters when they do the same.

[K Gardner]

23. When and if something occurs, it needs to be explained so Obama donors

can understand it.. the why of it. I feel the same as the "mad" ones do. I don't want my hard-earned money going to support debt from the failed campaign of a race-baiting, divisive, destruction, rovian liar.

But.. that's just me. :hi: O8)

[Andy823]

59. You are not alone.

If she was not racking up more debt, day by day, I might try and understand Obama paing the debt off, but it would be very hard. However she is already loaned herself over 11 million, and she still owes millions to schools, and small business owners, not to mention Penn! If she just paid off her debts instead of making more maybe people wouldn't be so upset. And I have a real hard time seeing any of Obama money going to Mark Penn!

By the time this is over how many "millions" will she have in debt? It's not like her and Bill will be broke, I mean Bill makes millions giving speeches, and millions more getting deals for questionable people with interests in the U.S. How long would it take them to get back the money the loaned themselves, a couple years at the most?

Best stop my rant before I get all upset again!:cry:

[Two Americas]

86. where do you think our money goes?

The money we donate goes to the MSM. They repay us by destroying our candidates. They hold us all hostage, and the ransom always escalates beyond out ultimate ability to buy our freedom. The corporate profits made off of our donations - off of all of the money that is extorted from us under various pretenses - are then used to fund organizations that are dismantling and destroying the country.

Why do we accept that campaigns cost millions and millions of dollars? Why are the public airwaves being used to hold our democracy hostage? That, in my opinion, is what we should be outraged about. But like the man who hates his abusive and tyrannical boss, but is afraid to stand up to him and so kicks the dog when he gets home, we pound on each other or find scape goats to "vent" our hatred upon.

[Two Americas]

78. "your team"

Clinton supporters are "your team," as well. Obama recognizes that, and so does the OP.

Using "they started it" or "they asked for it" as a justification for hostility and abusive behavior is the height of moral depravity. No amount of abuse toward you means that you "deserve" to abuse people back. It isn't "venting" either. "Venting" is talking about how you feel, not taking it out on others nor spreading destructive and inaccurate ideas.

[NJmaverick]

4. Get bent you pompous blow hard! It's a long way down when you get knocked off that high horse

of yours!

[Exultant Democracy]

16. Next you will be calling me an elitist. Sorry but I defend Obama from stupid shit because

I think this election is important.

[NJmaverick]

27. No, I think my description was spot on. Oh and you are not defending anyone

you are attacking Obama's true supporters and defenders.

[Exultant Democracy]

38. Calling out people who say they will never donate to Obama again isn't attacking his true supporters

and defenders. If they were true supporters and defenders then they would be able to shelf the Clinton hate for the greater good when it came down to the brass tacks.

[woolldog]

97. Who made you the arbiter of who a "true supporter" is?

Get over yourself.

[jezebel]

6. I agree 100%. I've been thinking I'm alone. I don't care how much he pays if she goes away, I'll

even chip in extra to his campaign to help her leave the stage.

[Exultant Democracy]

28. Exactly, this is about winning our Country back not punishing Clinton for her sins.

[here_is_to_hope]

110. I am one of those that says "NO!" but your

post does make sense...mostly.
:thumbsup:
:hi:

[Two Americas]

82. go away?

I hope that Clinton helps get the vote out for Obama. I also hope that she supports the administration in the Senate.

Why would we want her to "go away?" What about her supporters? Should they go away? What about those who voted for her? Why would we not want to keep everyone in the fold and accept everyone's help and seek everyone's support in the general?

[emilyg]

89. Thank you. Pleasure to read.

[lumpy]

130. If Obama loses Clinton supporter votes he will be up the creek.

Quite simple, he can't win the GE without all those who have supported Clinton and that includes DU posters.

[cliffordu]

7. Thanks for posting this.

[TBF]

8. People do need to vent, but I'll go on record as supporting the pay-off.

In fact I'd donate to it. I believe it goes a long way towards goodwill with both Hillary and her supporters. We need everyone in November.

[NJmaverick]

18. Hillary used her money to extend her reign of destruction beyond

it's natural life span. She should not be rewarded for these actions with millions of good people's $$$$$

[TBF]

34. I can't stand the woman, nomad, and that was before this primary.

I don't consider it a reward for bad behavior, especially since she's not going to be sitting in the White House. I consider it incentive for her to behave nicely through November. What she really wants is the VP slot, but I'd rather pay her to go away then kill Obama's chances in the fall.

[Pamela Troy]

122. "Reign of Destruction?"

Jesus Christ, do you think she's a super-villian from a Marvel Comic?

[lumpy]

131. The stupidity of some people know no bounds.

Super. "reign of destruction", how ridiculous. I am certain Obama would not approve of that assinine statement.

[goclark]

9. I trust his amazing team to make decisions that will be

in the best interest of the American people.

[grantcart]

10. oh there have been many other times as well but your right this is one of the

best examples

[npincus]

12. Isn't the idea that Obama's supporters are neophytes

many who have never participated nor donated to a campaign before. Your attitude is quite condescending- folks not as seasoned as yourself understand that the small donations they've sacrificed to give may end up in the bank account of the piggie Mark Penn- certainly Hillary's wealth is enormous compared to 99.999% of these small donors. So, they have a right to ask questions and feel pissed just because "that's th way it's always been", and if you feel that you have the benefit of wisdom and experience, you can share that without the harshness, judgment and condescension.

[Exultant Democracy]

43. My OP was specifically to address the people stating that they would never donate to Obama again.

I understand the knee-jerk reaction, but I have come to expect a lot more from Obama supporters who I have found for the most part to be far more informed and politically aware then any other candidates supporters.

[lumpy]

132. I don't believe harshness, judgment and condescension

would have been a problem if Clinton had been treated with a modicum of respect by certain Obamaites who have 'vented' in such a surly, nasty manner.

[gateley]

13. Thanks for the education on

the politics of campaigns. (That sounds snarky, but it was a sincere thank you.)

I didn't realize it was commonplace, but should have realized it when one of the pundits mentioned it on Tuesday night and none of the others seemed to blink an eye.

:hi:

[peace13]

40. It is not legal. n/t

[4themind]

14. I thought I read that he can't donate directly to her campaign

in excess of 225,000 according to FEC rules but he can hold seperate fund raisers and appeals for her, and if supporters don't like that I would say just don't donate to it, do what you want with your own money, other people can do what they want with theirs. Although I admit, this idea still troubles me.

[Exultant Democracy]

74. After the election his sequestered primary cash all goes into his PAC,

I'm not going to give a primer on PAC's but more or less they are the back door to the campaign finance laws and the money can flow more or less where ever Obama wants it to as long as it jumps through some hoops.

[psquare]

126. Absolutely right - the max the Obama campaign can donate to Hillary is $2,300

[Triana]

15. I don't care if Obama pays off her debt. I thought that was standard procedure..

....a couple people on DU have mentioned it as being so.

Anyway, I'll be sending him more $$ and however he uses it, - in the Primary, GE, or whatever, is fine with me. I have a certain level of trust - based on what I've seen thus far, in how Obama's campaign manages their finances.

[Exultant Democracy]

45. I wish I had the assest to max out my donation right now, but one month at a time I'll get close.

[psquare]

128. He can hold a joint fundraiser, or start a separate fund, but it is illegal to use primary

or GE funds donated to the Obama campaign to pay any more than $2,300 of Hillary's debt.

This is settled law, and I'm surprised that DU'ers don't know it inside out.

[Coexist]

17. just a small point - when people donated to his primary campaign

they actually were donating to his Primary campaign. So he could win the primary. That is why Clinton is cash-strapped right now - she maxed out her primary donors and can't touch the money she set aside for the GE.

For those maxed out for the primary, they can donate again, up to the same amount, for the General Election.

So technically, your Third and most important point is factually incorrect.


"Third and most importantly you didn't donate to Obama just to beat Clinton in the primary, you donated so that he will win the White House in November."

[Exultant Democracy]

26. That isn't actually how it works, you know that right? No one donates specifically to the PE or GE

it goes into the same office and then depending on how much you have donated if it is still during the primary then anything over the max limit is sequestered.

More importantly winning the primary is fundamental to winning the GE and I don't think Obama supporters donated so that he would lose in the General.

[Coexist]

30. right, so when you donate during the primary, you are funding the primary

unless you have donated over $2300. That gets put aside for the GE.

[tularetom]

20. If he can't use the money in the general election

WTF is he gonna do with it? Besides, how humiliating is it for her to have to accept this payoff from him when she began this process with more money, more name recognition, more connections among the Hollywood elite and more favorable press?

The clinton "legacy" will be that they had to accept a gift from this upstart to enable them to slink off the public stage without disgracing themselves more than they already have.

I think it would be the ultimate putdown.

I have no objection whatsoever that my contribution is used in order to belittle this loser.

[Exultant Democracy]

71. The Ultimate Put-down is right. LOL

[Two Americas]

90. "belittle this loser?"

"Ultimate putdown?"

This election is far too important to afford us the luxury of indulging ourselves in this sort of thinking, or superimposing such a pretty and counter-productive agenda on top of it.

[KittyWampus]

21. Stupid? I don't think it's even LEGAL for Obama to give GE or Primary funds to Clinton

He can fund raise to help retire her debt. But GIVING her money? I doubt it. There are limits to how much a person can give. A couple of thousand.

[nsd]

22. Obama wouldn't pay off Clinton's debt with his primary election funds.

He can't do that legally. What's being proposed is that Obama might help Clinton with fundraising. For example, he might volunteer to speak at Clinton fundraising dinners, ask members of his finance committee to organize events for her, or send out e-mail messages to his own donors asking them to help her out.

All of this would involve NEW funds, donated for this purpose. He wouldn't just take money already donated to his campaign and give it to Clinton. The NYTimes explains it in this link (scroll down for the update):
link

So, while I agree that it's silly for people to be upset about this, it's not for the reason you're giving. It's for an even better reason: the only way people will be giving money to Clinton is if they actually want to.

[Forkboy]

25. Excellent post.

:thumbsup:

[kwenu]

29. I'm willing to let Obama play that as he thinks appropriate. And I donate at least monthly.

[cloudythescribbler]

31. I have NEVER heard of a parrallel case of paying off campaign debts among leading prez contenders

but I would be interested in knowing the precedents going back at least through the television era.

Frankly, I don't think it will look "ideal" for Obama to be paying off the campaign debts of a 100 millionaire couple. I agree in principle though that if it REALLY does help Obama win, then fine.

I can see why people would be reluctant to support this idea. What is KEY is how this reaction may in fact be parralleled among the voting masses, regardless of how "commonplace" the practice is.

One thing I agree with is that this whole matter is essentially a political calculation and not some point of "principle" at all.

I still say having a woman running mate WHO IS NOT HILLARY with Obama is the strategic right move. And there are a variety of other things that we need to think about, as beating McCain is urgent and far from assured (almost an even bet, which makes me VERY nervous).

[Exultant Democracy]

61. I agree with you on all points. In recent history Primaries haven't gone this long

and people like McCain and Bradley were able to pay off their debt using federal matching funds.

[woolldog]

32. So sorry, oh all knowing one!

Would that we all had your knowledge and experience, oh politically seasoned one.




Some of us are new to the process. And we're allowed to have opinions and concerns too...and express them. Whether you like it or not.

[Exultant Democracy]

37. Everyone is allowed to their opinion, but I'm allowed to call them like I see them and this is silly

In all fairness if you are going to express an opinion then the burden is on you to get the facts and educate yourself on the issue if you don't want to sound ignorant.

[peace13]

41. As I stated below.

Contact the Obama Campaign and get the info from the horses mouth. The word is that it is not legal and they are not contemplating paying Hills debt. Your comments only hurt Obama's fund raising...is that the goal?

[Exultant Democracy]

52. It happens all the time there are ways

for on you take your PE money you can't use and it goes into an Obama leadership PAC after the election, then that PAC sends the money out to their friends and the money gets moved and all of sudden Clinton's debt are paid. It happens all the time and the people who used this system are the same guys who wrote the rules so they know campaign fiance law is more of a theory then a fact.

In addition it was the Obama campaign that floated the trial balloon on this issue, don't expect the Obama campaign to give out there strategies out over the phone before they have even decided themselves (first you test, then you send up a trial balloon, then you test again and if in the end if you decide to do it you announce in prime time not over the phone to some random supporter.)

[peace13]

109. Sorry, I think you are trying to spread this rumor.

That is all.

[woolldog]

60. maybe you should take your own advice?

(especially if you're going to posture as someone who is knowledgeable) because your OP contains several inaccuracies that have been pointed out.

[Exultant Democracy]

92. And I have addressed them all, gosh it's like you never heard of a PAC.

[woolldog]

96. no.

In your OP,

you said the money would come out of his primary fund. No it wouldn't.

you said it happens frequently in presidential politics. You haven't cited any examples, in response to people asking you to cite some. (read Texas Observers posts)

you said that we donate primary money for the general election. No we don't.

[Exultant Democracy]

98. 1 Clinton helped Vilsak pay off his rather sizable debt for his short campaign for the nom

and that is just one example from this cycle.

2 Are you suggesting that people who donate in the primary don't do it with the goal of winning the GE? Then you are freaking bonkers.

3. There will be sequestered PE fund that will turn in Obama PAC money as will leftovers from the GE. Do you understand how PACs are the reason that all election finance laws are more or less mythical when it come to real world regulation?

[woolldog]

99. So this is politics as usual?

is that what you're saying?

[Exultant Democracy]

100. My thrust is that A. it isn't funny business and B. If the Obama team decides that it a savvy move

then based on their astounding track record perhaps people should trust them.

[woolldog]

102. you avoided the question...

[Beregond2]

33. Well I,

for one, never heard of this before now. Nor have I ever had it explained in full, the way you just did. And I am not exactly a political neophyte.

Thanks for the explanation. If all that is true, yes, it does make sense. But it would have been nicer to get the lesson without the abuse.

[Exultant Democracy]

44. All the "I'll never donate to Obama again" posts got my Ire up, sorry it it was a tad too harsh.

[Beregond2]

114. No problem.

I'm not exactly guiltless in this area...lol.

[lumpy]

136. They should just pretend the money they (might) have donated

will go somewhere else other then to retire any of Clinton debts if they hate Hillary so damned much. Money money money makes the world go round' ka ching!

[bhikkhu]

35. I don't like the idea in principle.

It appears as a "payoff".

But then again I am not going to get worked up over something that has barely even been discussed, and if I didn't trust Obama and Dean's judgment on this sort of thing I wouldn't be here.

[Exultant Democracy]

42. Oh in principle I agree with you, in a perfect world Clinton should be paying for a lot more

then just her campaign debt but for the damage that she has done to our party with her divisive campaign.

That being said I support Obama and I see the very real upside to this possibility (which is all it is for now.)

[Bluenorthwest]

111. In a perfect world

In a perfect world we would have publically financed elections instead of this highest bidder fire sale to benefit the MSM. That is what would change things.

[TexasObserver]

36. You're wrong. It is seldom done in this circumstance.

And Republicans paying off Democrats debt and vice versa? Ha. That's sheer imagination on your part.

I'm not sure where you got your info, but it's not from real life.

Most of the time a candidate pays off the debt of another, it's during the primary season when an opponent with limited debt and backers endorses one of two remaining primary opponents. Most of what you wrote is pure bunk. You're talking out your ass, not from experience.

Obama won't pay off her debts, and you're foolish if you think he will, or at a minimum, naive.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

121. exactly.

[peace13]

39. Funny, I got a message from the Obama campaign that said

it was illegal for them to give Hill money and that they are not contemplating doing that. There has been discussion on this topic here this evening. Why do you continue to post something that is not true? Who in the media is saying that Obama may do this. Please contact the Obama campaign to get the story straight.

[TexasObserver]

50. this story was started by pundits and has no legs

I challenge any posters here, including the OP, to find any time in the past 40 years one major candidate for the nomination as president has agreed to take on the debt of the last candidate to bow out of the nomination race. If it happens all the time, then it should have been news in 2004, 2000, 1992, 1988, 1984, 1980, 1976, 1972, and 1968.

Where are all those news stories?

Here's the grain of truth to this notion: There's a race for state rep. It's the primary. There are three people running. After the primary, there is a runoff between Candidate Smith, who is a maverick, and Candidate Jones, who has establishment backing and money. A third candidate, Johnson, lost with only 20% of the vote. Johnson has $12,000 in campaign debt. He endorses Jones, and Jones money backers see to it that Johnson's $12,000 debt gets paid. THAT is how it really happens, and when it happens.

[woolldog]

80. If you look at the comments section

this has been discussed by the Obama campaign and there are plenty of donors that were upset by this.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/09/obama-wont-rule-out-easing-clinton-campaign-debt/

[TexasObserver]

85. and the UPDATE in it tracks my comments about how it might happen

"Update on Debt: If Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton would happen to broker a deal to help pay off her campaign debts – this remains a big if, aides said, because nothing has been formally discussed – the money would not be taken from Mr. Obama’s campaign account. Instead, he would have to make a fund-raising appeal on her behalf, asking people to contribute."

It would likely be fundraising Obama would do after winning the election, in events set up for that purpose. It won't be checks being written out of the Obama campaign coffers for Clinton debts.

[woolldog]

91. I noticed that.

just pointing our that MANY donors were alarmed and had the same initial reaction I did.

I think it's safe to say his 1.5 million donors aren't experts at campaign finance law. And the whole thing seems sleazy.

[KansasVoter]

46. Please link to a story verifying other candidates pay off election debt.

[Blondiegrrl]

47. I have no problem with him paying off her debt.

Hell, I'll kick in 50 bucks toward getting her to concede.

[Stinky The Clown]

48. Wow! An actual grownup Obama supporter.

K&R

[ShortnFiery]

49. Oh that's just what we need: More self-righteousness and censor.

:thumbsdown:

[barack the house]

51. It maybe tradition but the difference is many millions were spent on his personal destruction...

So a bit different this occasion. I am not sure about this policy it says hey you can run my name into the ground an I'll pay later. If there had only been policy differences that would of been fine. I mean imagine in his shoes and you had rezko ayers wright and "I don't steal cars" would people, really, pay, for that.

[graycem]

53. Hmm..

I've heard a couple of people discuss this on television and they've said he isn't allowed to just write her a big fat check anyway. The way the debt would be relieved, with his help would be something like a joint fundraiser. He could solicit money expressly for that purpose from his supporters or anyone he could find to help out with this. Not out of the money he has on hand. Which is more fair since people would know what they were giving money for. I also heard it is not unusual to hold fundraisers after the election to pay off the debt.

[barack the house]

57. I can live with that very ethical.

[graycem]

69. Me too..

after the elections are all said and done, fewer peole will see her as the "enemy", feelings will heal, and we will be in the WH. Nobody will have a problem with this after the election.

[Exultant Democracy]

58. The easy and traditional way is to wait till after the election

when the, left overs/sequesters PE election funds, all go into the candidate's leadership PACs, from there the sky is the limit to how you can move it and what you can do with it. Campaign finance law is more of a theory then a fact (just look at McCain's operation this last year if you doubt that.)

[graycem]

65. I don't have a problem with it

after the election, because it's leftovers. I think what's bothering people, is the framing of it, as if he would just write her a check tomorrow if she agrees to go away. He won't need the money after the election and it should be argued that way if this does come out from the campaign that this type of deal is in the works.

[Exultant Democracy]

68. Most campaigns take years and years to finish paying off their debts.

[graycem]

72. Yeah.. another point of contention

is that the majority of her debt goes to herself, and Mark Penn. I mean, when framed that way, it is insane to give her money since nobody told her to just keep funneling it to her failing campaign when she had no clear path to win. That said, after the election, nobody is going to care. We will be in the WH, and he can give her all his PAC money to pay it off, even her portion. After he's the nominee, she won't be seen as "the enemy" anymore, and when she helps us defeat John McCain, we'll be one big happy family again. Once he's in the WH we'll be too happy to care about leftover money.

[TexasObserver]

67. That is accurate. If he helps her at all, if will be fundraisers AFTER the general election

It won't be by writing any checks NOW or in the next 6 months.

If she plays nice and works hard for his election, he might help her retire some of her campaign debt by helping her with fundraisers next year or beyond.

[graycem]

94. Which would be totally fair

and worth every cent. She and Bill have an ability as well as a duty to help pull our party back together in order to get a Dem. in the WH.

[TexasObserver]

107. contributors must know ahead of time who they're giving to, and he'll do that

I think it's important to reassure his supporters that his campaign will not pay Hillary's debts. That cannot happen.

[graycem]

108. completely agree..

I wish people would listen sometimes before they get worked up over nothing.

[ProSense]

54. Actually it's a valid concern, and for legal reasons it's not going to happen

details

[Exultant Democracy]

64. After the election the campaign money becomes Obama PAC money

most campaign don't pay off their debts for years (I think bush took till 2004 to finish paying for 2000) once the money is in the PAC is it easy to move it to Clinton and other PACs and from those PACs to Clinton's. That is just one way out of many to get the job done, this happens all the time and the people who wrote the rules left themselves plenty of space to maneuver.

The Obama team floated this trial balloon in the first place and while I won't presume to know why they did it, I do know they did it for a reason.

[ProSense]

119. Did you even read the article? They can't, what they can do is make an appeal on her behalf. n/t

[benddem]

55. actually you are wrong

that is against campaign finance laws.

[Exultant Democracy]

81. Sequestered primary funds will become Obama PAC funds...and so on

make the deal now, Clinton gets paid in a few years. Most campaigns carry their debt for years (Bush didn't finish paying for 200 till right before the 2004 elections started) so there is no hurry to pay, just a hurry to cut the deal.

[zulchzulu]

56. Some people don't want to give Wolfson, MacAulliffe, Penn or Hillary a red cent

You can call them stupid, but it is seriously a matter where people don't think their campaign donations should go to fill the pockets of these swine. Count me in.

Fuck the Clinton Campaign. They are doing to deeds of the Repigs at this point, so they can seriously, and I can't say it any louder, GO FUCK THEMSELVES.

Trusting that they wouldn't change their ways after getting bailed out is like trusting a rattlesnake in your underpants.

[Usrename]

62. Exactly, she has many tens of millions that she cannot use now.

Those funds are segregated because her donors maxed out their contributions for this contest. She has plenty of cash, she just cannot use any of it for this primary race, not even to pay off her debts.

[Exultant Democracy]

66. My hope is that it all ends up working to win our house and senate seats.

That money should definitely be used this time around.

[Lady-Damai]

70. How about you and other Obama supporters who want to pay Hillary debts start sending money to HER???

[Catherine Vincent]

73. "So grow up and stop being so freaking stupid "

Ain't that the truth. :thumbsup:

[Freedom Train]

75. Obama supporters ignorant, stupid and embarrassing?

Yes, that is hardly news to anyone.

[Exultant Democracy]

84. If I was a Clinton supporter I would be embarrassed by you.

And as a democrat post like yours make me shudder. Time is we stop the bleeding because all post like yours are doing is shouting viva McCain.

[Freedom Train]

95. I was just repeating your own words

There is no bleeding; only good has come from the primary process having lasted as long as it has. Also, there's no nominee yet, so accusing me of shouting viva McCain is pretty dishonest.

[Exultant Democracy]

105. I wasn't painting with a wide brush like you. Try not cheery picking peoples words out of context

it is a nasty habit.

[futureliveshere]

76. Your point is correct... But your tone is not

Why is it that when we are anonymous we become so rude when we are angry?

[Exultant Democracy]

83. Check my post #44, I agree my tone was harsh, but then sometimes you have to slap the donkey

as Al Sharpton said.

[Political Heretic]

77. I AGREE!

[quakerboy]

79. YES

I keep starting to make this response, and then realizing that it didn't belong buried in a thread somewhere.

Why the crap do we want to start second guessing the campaign now? They have proven themselves to be capable and responsible.

[Stop Cornyn]

87. Agreed

[emilyg]

88. k/r

[rocktivity]

93. I still say it was a scam

to get us mad at Obama and stop sending him money.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Exultant Democracy]

101. I think it was a trial balloon. Clinton helped Vilsak out the the mess he made of his run and picked

up a strong surrogate and a powerful ally. Obama's team doesn't just want Clinton's endorsement they want her to go to work and a couple mill to help her pay off some debt is a lot cheaper then the VP slot.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

103. Oh, poo.

:*

[Exultant Democracy]

104. Not Oscar poo I hope, that smell never goes away.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

106. You could run your car on that stuff.

Once.

[ekwhite]

112. Absolutely

Paying off Clinton's campaign debts will go a long way towards healing the rift in the party, also. I would consider it a good investment.

[chill_wind]

113. Please cite specific past cases. You assert that

"This is a very very common practices and not just in primaries when it is Dem vs Dem but also in general elections Reps and Dems pay off each others campaign debts ALL THE TIME."

That was also Tim Russert's assertion, but he didn't elaborate, either. And he is, AFAIK, the originator of this subject, which he broached right after the IN and SC returns of Tues nite, and which, since, the blogs have fastened onto like crazy. Please elaborate?

I'm not doubting it, as much as I'm curious about the actual examples and manner in which it was done.

[nichomachus]

115. Whatever it takes to hurt Republicans -- I'm for it.

[Eurobabe]

116. You just met my ignore list. C'ya!

Your pompousness and tone are really sickening. As a donor, I have a right to make my wishes known to the campaign. Get over yourself importance.

[Pamela Troy]

123. Lalala I can't HEAAAAAAAAR YOOOOOUUUUUU!

[KaptBunnyPants]

117. If it brings this to an end, finally, then it would be money well spent.

I don't think that's Hillary's angle though. I don't know what she thinks she is going to get by remaining in the race, but I doubt she's doing it for money.

[Rose Siding]

118. His campaign can legally contribute only $2300 to her campaign

He can make donation pleas on her behalf, but that's it. None of his low-income, low-dollar contributors will ever have to worry about their donations to him being used to benefit her.

[IDemo]

129. Maybe only $2000, if this article is correct ->

The personal contribution limit increased from $2,000 to $2,300 for this campaign cycle, but the contribution limit for a campaign committee to campaign committee contribution remained capped at $2,000.

http://americannonsense.com/?p=8919

[ChairmanAgnostic]

120. bullshit. i DID donate to him to beat her.

He was not my first choice. Not only is she my last choice, if one penny of mine heads to pay off her egotistical, lie-based, spin-enhanced, crap-filled, disorganized, inevitable, and disgusting campaign, I will not make any further donations. That is how seriously I feel.

Too bad that my emotions don't match yours, however, she is a cancer on the party and on the country, and I refuse to reward such bad behavior.

NOT ONE PENNY. EVER.

[crankychatter]

124. the whole non-issue is a non-starter, wtf, eh?

do actual Obama supporters want Clinton to partially paralyze Obama's GE campaign by charging around the country spouting her divisive bullshit for the next four months? when a simple bribe could make her sit down and shut up?

I doubt it.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

127. you REALLY think a simple bribe will shut her up?

or shut down Bill's plots for 2012?

Yeah, and let me show you this bridge I have for sale.

How can you so underestimate their total lack of candor, ethics, honesty and integrity? You REALLY think she will behave if she is bribed? Hah. The definition of a good politician is one who is bribed, stays bribed. SHe is NOT a good politician.

[crankychatter]

133. of course not.... but if it's part of the recipe, wtf? I couldn't care less

just don't give her VP... and don't help her with her debts especially, IF IT DOESN'T get her to step down POST HASTE

If we get nothing for it... then she can dig out her wallet and pay it herself.

I think she'll blow the general for us, quite frankly, eh?

she needs to go away and I almost don't care WHAT the price is

we'll make it up on the other end by taking the White House

[JerseygirlCT]

125. Also, I imagine there's a fair amount of good will in paying all those

vendors, etc. who've been waiting to be paid by the Clinton campaign.

[boppers]

134. She's a freaking multi-millionare.

If she couldn't have paid the debt, she shouldn't have assumed it.

[sfam]

135. Its a VERY common practice and totally forbidden by FEC rules????

Seriously, the amount of spin on this issue is getting rather crazy. Lets face it, unless we've read the FEC rules, we really don't know this.

And because Pols have always done this, it should negate our concerns? Worse, your are MORE embarrassed by this than all the insane, over the top, asinine posts some Obama supporters have made here?

Truly, get over yourself. You're embarrassed? Tough shit.

So, hows about that FEC rule that proves this is forbidden? Also, considering this happens ALL THE TIME, please provide the instances this has occurred in the last three Presidential Primary contests.