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Juan Cole: Hillary's "obliterate Iran" comments are "monstrous", "surreal", would be a "war crime"

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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 01:11 PM
Original message
Juan Cole: Hillary's "obliterate Iran" comments are "monstrous", "surreal", would be a "war crime"
Edited on Tue May-06-08 01:14 PM by npincus
Shocking how the MSM has ignored her outrageous, irresponsible and damaging comments when we are supposed to be evaluating our candidates' policies and judgement.

But, it really is much more consequential for our future to rehash what Rev. Wright has said, as nauseum, than to consider a policy of launching Armeggedon in the Middle East.



http://www.juancole.com/2008/05/obama-clinton-on-iran-o...

I had complained at the time that this diction is monstrous. I mean, it is surreal to have Democrats discussing whether it is appropriate for the US to "totally obliterate" another country. It would be one thing if she had threatened the Iranian military. Targeting civilians, who would be included in the "total" obliteration, is a war crime.

Clinton stood by her remarks: "I don't think it's time to equivocate. to know they would face massive retaliation. That is the only way to rein them in." The premise that "they" only understand the language of massive violence is in fact a rightwing premise more characteristic of W. and Ariel Sharon than of the Democratic Party tradition.

Clinton's remarks would not be unusual if she had confined herself to saying that the US would forcefully retaliate for any WMD attack on Israel (though the US has no treaty obligations that would require such a response, unlike in the case of NATO). It was the "totally obliterate" phrase that that was objectionable, insofar as it implied the commission of a crime against humanity.

posted by Juan Cole @ 5/05/2008 06:08:00 AM


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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Rec'd 'in solidarity' with Juan Cole. This is no way for a Dem to act.
We should be trying to keep the peace, not foment hatred.
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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. certainly not a Dem, nor anyone else for that matter
It's amazing how compliant Hillary is to the tragic path the Chimp has set this country on.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Agreed; just drawing the comparison of what/who we don't want to be
associated with.
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. I Have Some American Iranian Friends That Are Health Professionals And Have Family Back in Iran.....
and are totally disgusted and upset with Hillary's 'obliterate' comment. A number of them supported her during the Illinois primary but indicated if she wins the nomination they will vote for McCain. Thank you Hillary.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. No kidding, Juan. K&R
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
6. Clearly, Juan is in need of one of Clinton's balls.

I think the Iran comments were timed to advance the "Hilary has testicles" strategy.
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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. instead it sems to have advanced the "Hillary is B*sh" strategy.
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CanonRay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. I guess Juan blew his chance for a Hillary cabinet slot!
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
8. Are American students ever shown the effects of Hiroshima and Nagasaki up close and personal
American students probably only see the abstract mushroom cloud photos of nuclear weapons. If all students had to understand what their nation had done to the civilian populations of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they would know on a deeper level how horrible Clinton's statement was. I believe German students are taught about the horrors the Nazi regime committed. And Japanese students learn about the Manchurian Massacre and other horrors committed by the Japanese imperial army, and they have had to fight against revisionist historians trying to "correct" their textbooks. But are our children shown the actual photos and given material to read from eyewitnesses to the devastation wrought when our government dropped "little" nuclear weapons that killed 100,000 civilians in two Japanese cities? Many students around the world have seen that destruction. Our students should see and understand what citizens of other countries know about what our nation has done. Just be aware of how intense such "obliterating" can be. Quite nightmarish.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. No, in fact, PBS ombudsman criticized journalist Moyers for not attacking Wright criticism Hiroshima
AND Smithsonian (Gov't Museum institution) was forced to CANCEL an exhibit
of the Enola Gay 50th anniversary at the Air and Space Museum because
veterans groups and Congress threatened to fire all the curators for being
anti-nuke. (They wanted to display the photos you mention and were silenced.)

No joke.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
9. It's pathetic posturing and flagwaving..but dangerous and incredibly stupid.
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. K&R. Thanks for posting.
Yet another failure of the MSM. As for Hillary, I gave up on her six years ago. IWR vote for war in order to enhance her electability was a fucking immoral act.
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Diane R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. Shhhh..... The media has decided 'ObliterateGate' is not important. Now carry on with Wrightgate..
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invictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
12. K & R. Hillary Clinton is a slimeball! n/t
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. Threatening obliteration in retaliation is a war crime......
Saying Israel should be wiped off the map?

Well that was just a mistranslation.

:eyes:
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Voice for Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. yes... it was a mistranslation.
according to reputable sources!


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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. try and bring yourself up to speed..
you look real stupid otherwise.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
16. Yup. Still waiting for Swamp Rat to make us an Ah-nold style Obliterator pic.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
17. Is this winning support for your candidate?
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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. if you don't see red flags waving, hear alarm bells ringing
by HRC's remarks- it's bad enough the MSM is more interested in running the Wright loop 24/7- after the past 8 years of B*sh regime saber-rattling, catastrophic foreign policy, then I really don't know what to say.

This post is not about "winning support", it's about getting folks to understand what's at stake and the kind of diplomacy a President CLinton will bring. Iranians are furious at her casual, threatening remarks. Don't you think this merits consideration, or should we hold hands and sing "Kumbaya"?

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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I hear and see a lot of that, in regard to both candidates...
But they are both still a damn sight better than McCain, and if we don't start coming together, we will get him and deserve him.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
21. kick
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
23. If Hillary so blindly ignores the math of her own campaign...

then she is also likely to ignore the probability of the effects of her own statements against Iran, or the likelihood of entering an Armageddon scenario. Her foreign policy smacks of faith-based initiative.
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