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Rove: "the good news for us is that Dean is not the nominee."

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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:20 PM
Original message
Rove: "the good news for us is that Dean is not the nominee."
Remember Fourth of July, 2003--Rove was quoted as saying how they wanted Dean as the nominee now he appears to have changed his tune or as some of us suggested at the time he was saying that to give the impression that they were not afraid of Dean.

Apparently this is from the book "Plan of Attack" by Bob Woodward in which Woodward interviewed many insiders in the Bush White House.

"Previously, Rove had claimed he was salivating that the Democrats would nominate former Vermont governor Howard Dean in the 2004 presidential race. But Dean imploded and Sen. John F. Kerry had won 12 of the first 14 Democratic primary contests and appeared to be headed for the nomination. Politics is a game of recovery, adaptability and optimism. So Rove has a new line.

"The Good news for us is that Dean is not the nominee," Rove now argued to an asocite in his second-floor West Wing office. Dean's unconditional opposition to the Iraq war could have been potent in a face off with Bush. "One of Dean's strengths, though was he could say, I'm not part of taht crowd down there." But Kerry was very much a part of the Washington crowd, and he had voted in favor of the resolution of war. Rove got out his two-inch thick, loose leaf binder titled, "Bring it On." It consisted of research into Kerry's 19-year record in the Senate. Most relevant were pages 9 to 20 of the section on Iraq...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=artic... Found=true

Now I'm not printing this to start a flame war but just to show that Dean wouldn't be the pushover in the general election that some thought--just like Kerry is proving he won't be either.
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Caution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. i like dean, i donated to dean
the media shredded dean and he allowed it to happen. he would have been destroyed in a national campaign. hell most of my relatives laugh at dean now, sadly to those who only knew him as a result of media portrayal he has become nothing more than a footnote and a joke of a footnote. I hope Dr. Dean is able to re-launch a political career on more than a fringe level, but his campaign was never able to recover and the average american didnt think he could win, which by its very definition meant he couldn't win. You can't win if you can't get votes.
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Bluzmann57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Dean should probably have tried a Senatorial run
or a House run before he went for President. He just didn't have "it" yet to launch a presidential campaign. No offense to Vermonters out there, but it's hardly typical of the USA. Lots of free thinkers up there, apparently, not that its a bad thing, just don't think the country is ready for that yet.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I deny he is a politician who only appeals to a fringe
But Kerry did win the most votes. Had Dean won Iowa he would have been the nominee in this quickened primary process we have had. Dean is also not a footnote in this campaign and certainly not a joke. Democrats and pundits give him the credit for opening a line of attack on the Bush administration when many in the party were surprisingly quiet. He also helped revolutionize campaign fund raising which Kerry has also utilized. No when the books on the 2004 campaign are written Dean will be no footnote--not to say he didn't make mistakes.
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Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. I don't even read about Rove anymore, I just take whatever he states
and know the exact opposite of it is true.
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Sagan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. If Chimpy was impeached and thrown in prison..

Rove would claim that everything was going according to his plan.

He's an egotistical liar.
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Bryan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. This sounds like Rovian misdirection
...that happens to dovetail with an argument that Dean supporters were making. I have no doubt that if Dean were the nominee, Rove would be saying he's glad that it wasn't Kerry, because they would have had to face his foreign policy experience.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. xactly
pure spin
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. respectfully, that doesn't "show" anything
by definition, anything said by Rove, or reported by Woodward, should be assumed to be intended to help Bush, not to inform us.




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lancdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Yep
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. it proves his comments last July regarding Dean which many
Dean opponents took as proof of Dean's being a weak general election candidate have as much validity as what he says about Kerry today.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I agree
zero validity in both cases. But many "Dean opponents" -- me, for example -- said the same thing last year.

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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I contributed to Dean's campaign last summer....twice.
I did so because he was echoing my feelings about the war.

That said, I suspect that Rove dearly wanted Dean to be Bush's opponent in the general election.....the Wurlitzer could spin an unknown Dean far easier than Kerry.

Apparently, most Democrats didn't take Rove's bait.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. Can't You Admit That Dean's Feral Scream Doomed His Candidacy....
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. the scream was hyped by the media
and has been proven to be nothing more than a diversion which at that time due to the media hype probably did hurt him, but as the facts have become known and time has gone by it is nothing--not an issue at all.
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mandyky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #20
36. Actually it was the Al Gore endorsement
the pink tutu dems knew they had to pull out all the stops, to knock him out. The scream and the media's constant use of it sealed his fate. What bothers me is AAR uses the scream clip constantly. Dean and Deaniacs, present and future, will "relaunch" Dean, never fear.

I'd take a screamer any day to some one who bores me so much I can't stand to listen to their speeches to figure out where they stand...

One of the best things Dean did for us, besides giving the party a backbone, which needs a booster shot aboout now, was to draw out Gephardt, and end that. Wonder how he feels about being double-crossed on the veep deal that was made?
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. right on.
You can't believe a word that fat criminal says, not even "and" and "the."
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TeacherCreature Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Nope
Publically he said he wanted Dean, in private he did not. Proof to me that the republicans got what they wanted.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. please be more skeptical
don't let your liking of Dean lead you to believe something in a Woodward book means anything.

Notice that "Plan of Attack" is recommended reading at Bush-Cheney's campaign site.

Also contemplate the "slam dunk" scene, which portrays the now-disgraced George Tenet trying to pull one over on the skeptical Pres. Bush on WMD and Iraq.

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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. This election is a referendum on Bush
Voters aren't going to give a rat's ass about Kerry's votes in the Senate. It's going to come down to, "are you with Bush or against Bush?"

If Rove wants to believe otherwise, they're in worse shape than I even thought.
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
15. It doesn't matter what Rove thinks
I don't let Republicans choose my Democratic candidates. Whether Rove believes one is better than another has no bearing on my decision. I thought Dean is IT, but he doesn't have the nominee. All Rove is accomplishing is causing unnecessary dust ups.

We can rise above it. We who supported Dean before and still support him, support his current efforts, which are to elect John Kerry for President.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
16. Rove Is Fucking With Your Mind...
They would have portrayed Dean as unstable as the Dems portrayed Goldwater in 64 and the public would have gobbled it up....
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Claire Beth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. EXACTLY!...........
I say Rove is WORRIED or he wouldn't even bring the Dean name up period! Kerry/Edwards is a great team and they KNOW it. :kick:
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Rove Reminds Me Of Dick Morris
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 05:16 PM by DemocratSinceBirth
They like to spin tales to mess with the opposition's minds as when Morris said Kerry would take HRC as his running mate or that the Clinton's want Kerry to lose so HRC will have an open field in 08...

The fact that folks on this board give them credence is beyond me...
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Claire Beth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. yup, you got that right! n/t
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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
17. Let's see, you're taking what Rove says at face value and
thereby coming to the conclusion "that Dean wouldn't be the pushover in the general election that some thought"?

HAHAHAHAHAHAhahahah snort...

I mean, Dean might have been competitive, but to use Rove's comments as proof of it is pretty funny, you have to admit...
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Rove Is Dick Morris Without The Charm (Sic)
NT
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
25. Critical Thinking = Rove is Right
I don't trust a word he says, but if I were in his place, I would be breathing a sigh of relief. Dean was opposed to the war all along. Now the public has come on board. That would be big time bad news for Bush.

My (boring analysis): During the campaign, the swing voters were still in favor of the war. It was just a few months after Saddam was captured. Kerry's primary campaign was all about "I can beat Bush" and "I can attract swing voters." Well guess what? Now the swing voters have realized the war was stupid.

So now what good reason is there to have Kerry instead of Dean? I was for Clark (and still am). But Dean would be Bush's worst nightmare right about now.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. All The Pukes Would Have To Do Is Play Dean's Feral Scream
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 05:27 PM by DemocratSinceBirth
Life's not fair and he became a national punch line after that incident....


It was a defining moment in his campaign...


Clark was my first choice but he erred in seeming to be equivocal on how he would have voted on the Iraq War Resolution
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Feral Scream vs 800+ Dead, 4000+ wounded
We could actually have some guts and laugh in their faces about the "scream," just as they still laugh in our faces about the lack of WMD and ties to al Qaeda. I'd welcome that conversation. If only we had a party that could take a punch.

Whatever we say about the Bush crooks, they sure do have unprecedented guts. Its time we had some too.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Kerry Wasn't My First Choice The General Was
but what's done is done...

Let's work together to remove this evil cabal from the White House....
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TheFarseer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #30
56. You're right
The republicans have it both ways - if something works out great if it doesn't it was still the "morally right" thing to do.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
28. Dean would have had a sizable lead by now
With everyone on board- rather than having candidates rip him apart in every debate, he would have been able to advance his agenda- and he would have actively taken on the right, while at the same time passing out hope. Moreover, as anyone who's ever listened to him sit down and discuss isues, Dean has a way of discussing (as well as understanding) complex policy issues in a way that the ordinary person on the street can understand- both what they mean and why they're important.

But Dean's not the nominee and so we have to go with what we have-

Besides, Karl Rove has zero integrity. He will say anything, so really, he's not worth paying attention to.
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bushwakker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
29. If KKKarl's lips are moving it means he's lying*
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JPJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
32. Bullshit
He's just trying to upset Dean supporters.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
33. I really don't see the point
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 07:29 PM by fujiyama
in listening to Rove of all people.

I liked Dean. I appreciated his steadfast opposition to this war and his courage in doing so. It took guts to speak out the way he did.

That doesn't mean he also didn't have liabilities. For one, he was already defined by the media as a left wing nut, as untrue as that may be. Dean also came off as being arrogant, which may not be true as well, but that is the impression many IN the party had of him.

That said, Kerry's liabilities were clear as well, which includes his long record in the senate, going back many years. Of course, much of it was already covered in the '96 campaign and he did survive it.

What Rove is doing is pretty clear -- Plant doubts in the party over Kerry prior to the convention. It's also partly divide and conquer -- try to get as many former Dean supporters to defect to Nader.


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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
34. BS
Rove is just full of SHIT! :puke:
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
35. Who cares what Rove says?
you expect him to tell the truth?
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
37. Rove Is Not The Genius We Took Him For
He's run a fairly incompetent, wasteful campaign - great on collecting money, but lousy with spending it.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
38. I saw that!
Rove Rove Rove. Keeps changin that ol' meme.

Though, part of me wonders if this rhetoric is meant to be divisive?

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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
39. Rove is SO full of sh*t
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 10:50 PM by zulchzulu
He was saying he wished Dean was the candidate back in the primaries.

Now the fat wanker is saying otherwise. $100 million to lie about Kerry while being under the arms and strategies of the dirtbag school of Lee Atwater's cancerous brain and look what he's got to show for it. An electoral college landslide by Kerry and his chimpish pal getting his nose rubbed in the shit he created.

He's finished.
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:41 AM
Response to Original message
40. Some truth here, maybe
Every candidate has strengths and weaknesses.

Dean would have run a full scale hit'em hard on Iraq campeign--the sort that kerry's been unable to do. I've never bought the line that Rove wanted to run against Dean. If the GOP wanted to run agains Dean why would they have 1. had the Club for Growth run ads against him and 2. funneled money to Al Sharpton to attack him in the debates.

Rove was perfectly prepared to slander and smear whoever the Democrats nominated. In the end, my hope is that Kerry's been able to unite the Democrats in a way that Dean, with his (justified) attacks on the DLC Dems, might not have been able to do.

In the end Rove put away his Dean binder and pulled out his Kerry binder. The party line changed from Dean is a nut job to Kerry is a waffler.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
41. The DLCers know the antiwar position is more electable
They are pro-neocon just like the repukes.
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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
42. this is funny
last year when Rove was saying they wanted Dean to be the candidate, ya'll were spooning that down like ice cream. No one was dissembling about taking Rove at face value then.
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RogueTrooper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
43. This is just Rove trying to split and demoralise Democrats
His election plan is based upon boosting the Republican base and demorlalising the Democratic base preferably with disgust and dismay at their own leadership ( long time DUers may recognise this as the '02 strategy ).

No doubt articles like this, along with belicose language directed at Iran are all directed to the same purpose.

Charmless and undemocratic but when we act like suckers ( Iraq then, Iran now ) effective.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
44. I just LOVE how so many bellowed about how Dean was the one Rove wanted
but now discount the fact the Rove is relieved now that it wasn't Dean.
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. yes Walt
that is very convenient for them...
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #44
49. personally I think Rove is fucking with heads
If it were Dean, he'd be gleeful. That's how Rove is, he's a sick bastard.
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TexasSissy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
45. We don't base our nominees on what the Repubs tell us to do. Or what
Nader tells us to do.

Kerry is the nominee because the Democrat voters thought he was the best candidate to beat George Bush. Maybe they were right. Maybe they were wrong. But it's their decision. It has nothing to do with what Rove thinks.

Besides, what would you expect Rove to say? He was telling the truth in one instance, and lying in the other. Who is to say which time was the truth? When someone lies, it's hard to tell.

I don't care what Carl Rove thinks of the Dem. nominee.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. maybe not you, but many Dean opponents last year took Rove's
words to heart when he uttered them about Dean being the guy they most wanted. Now its a different story.
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
46. They pay Rove for this weak attempt at mindfucking?
Geez, I could do a better job. What a loser.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
50. Oh come on people
If Dean were the nominee, he'd say it was good news, in this case Dean isnt the nominee so he's saying its good news. Typical republican misdirection.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. you are probably right
and the point is that when Rove made the claim in July, 2003 that they wanted Dean it was as valid as the claim he is making now--it is to psych people out. But a number of people accepted his claim when it regarded Dean are now in the position of pooh-poohing it today. I don't mean you personally.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. I know you dont mean me personally
Rove loves to fuck with our minds, he's the typical two sided republican. Remember they acted like they were afraid of Lieberman too.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
52. Mission accomplished
I laughed at all those who bought into the story that Rove&Co. wanted Dean to win the primary. Now that he's safely out of the picture he can say how he really feels......

Julie
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
53. "Unconditional" opposition?
Hardly. They're painting him as someone who would have let Iraq do anything, and that was not the case.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
55. Substitute any name that is not the candidate - Rove is blowing smoke. It
proves nothing and does not say anything about what kind of candidate Dean would have been or how formidible a candidate Kerry is. Take it for what it is: Rove-speak = smoke and mirrors.
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