Well, first of all, you know, I have never challenged other people's patriotism.

[2rth2pwr]

That was Obama today on Meet The Press, this is the same candidate in October of just last year-

The standard political reply to that question might well have been, "My patriotism speaks for itself."

But Obama didn't say that.

Instead the Illinois senator answered the question at length, explaining that he no longer wears such a pin, at least in part, because of the Iraq War.

"You know, the truth is that right after 9/11, I had a pin," Obama said. "Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq War, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security, I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=3690000



Does he think people are that gullible? This guy will say anything to get elected.

[YDogg]

1. people are that gullible.

your point?

[roguevalley]

65. pins are the clothing equivalent to yellow ribbons on your car. they

are bullshit. Besides, nixon enacted pins and anyone who doesn't want to wear one is my kind of person.

[Brundle_Fly]

67. people only gullible enough

to vote for a sham gas tax holiday?

who thinks who is gullible?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

2. What's your point?

Sounds to me like he was pointing out the cheap "patriotism" of flag waving.

[2rth2pwr]

6. Then you agree that he was being disingenuous when he said -

"Well, first of all, you know, I have never challenged other people's patriotism."

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. No. I was agreeing with his statement about silly flag-pin "patriotism".

He wasn't challenging the flagwavers as not "patriotic", he was challenging the use of flagwaving as a substitute for rational thought.

[2rth2pwr]

13. Same thing. He is making the judgment that he is the one who is qualified to

decide what is patriotic and what isn't, and he challenged the intentions of many people who have worn flag pins.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. "Patriotism is the most foolish of passions and the passion of fools." Schopenhauer

And, the flag-waving variety is one of the more disgusting bits of foolishness.

"Flags are bits of colored cloth that governments use first to shrink-wrap people's brains and then as ceremonial shrouds to bury the dead." - Arundhati Roy

[casus belli]

53. This is ridiculous...

This would never have been an issue were HIS patriotism not called into question. The fact that he made a choice, for himself, to not wear a pin because he felt it was a disingenuous show of patriotism is not a condemnation of those who choose to wear the pin. He didn't say that no one should wear a pin. He just said, "Not for me, thanks."

So now you would believe his self-defense is an attack - unbelievable.

[2rth2pwr]

3. wrong reply

[shraby]

I wouldn't wear the stupid pin either...or fly a flag

to pronounce that I'm more patriotic than "you" are. Patriotism is inside a person, not outside. Same with religion..that is internal also. The more a person pronounces how patriotic or religious they are, the less I believe them. I tend to observe their actions, not their words.

[dogday]

42. My Son fought and was injured in Iraq.. My Grandfather was a

WWII purple heart recipient.. He was a medic and many times was the last person those soldiers saw before they died... Because of this, I fly my flag in remembrance of the service by my family and all the others in this country that have fought and died.... It is the least I can do for them....

[Johnny__Motown]

4. He didn't give the easy answer, he gave the true one. You are the gullible one, you want the

talking point.. the bumper sticker.

true or not.

Typical Clinton supporter

[CakeGrrl]

5. You're misreading his statement to get what you want out of it

He's talking about HIMSELF.

He's talking about why a FLAG PIN is a meaningless artifact that is no substitute for true expressions of patriotism.

Where do you see him challenging any other person in what he said?

[2rth2pwr]

8. He is clearly implying that many people are not truly being patriotic

when they wear a flag pin. Even if you agree with the sentiment you must obviously and clearly see that he is lying.

[JVS]

16. And he's right. Putting a flag on your lapel doesn't make you any more of a patriot than shoving...

feathers in your ass would make you a chicken.

[2rth2pwr]

19. Right, then you agree with the OP.

[last1standing]

7. I see why you support Hillary. Like her you're willing to say anything to win.

No matter how much you have to twist the context or downright lie to make your point.

Do you think that DUers are that gullible? Will you say anything to get your lying candidate elected?

[2rth2pwr]

10. Twist the context? Show me what you mean, because it's plain as day that he said

that there are people who wear flag pins that are truly not patriotic.

[last1standing]

14. Only if that's what you want to see - and, of course, you do.

To anyone not completely blinded by hyper-partisanship, they will see that Obama was stating that some people use the pins as a substitute for true patriotism, not that they weren't patriots. He was stating that they were using them as cheap gimmicks, much like your thread.

Words have meanings. If you refuse to accept the meanings others do then you cannot communicate effectively.

It's sad that your need to win at all costs has made you become what you are.

[2rth2pwr]

17. Exactly, he is the "decider" , and can tell us who and when "true patriotism" is

being shown.

[last1standing]

22. What a stupid comment.

That really was the stupidest comment of so many stupid comments you've made.

I think your hatred for others led to insanity.

[2rth2pwr]

23. Hatred, where do you see hatred? The contradiction is right there, it's not something I have

made up. I have never, ever questioned Barack's patriotism. He certainly has questioned the sincerity of others.

[last1standing]

28. Because you don't want discussion, you want cheap opportunistic "points".

Just like your candidate.

You're like this in every thread you vomit your opinions at. You only care about winning and you've developed a hatred for anyone who doesn't sycophantically support Hillary. Is this what you're like in the real world? Are you this hateful to your co-workers?

[2rth2pwr]

30. Again as I'm sure you can clearly see on this thread, I have engaged in discussion

with many posters and done it without any vitriol.

[last1standing]

32. I don't see that at all. If this is "discussion" to you then I see the problem.

You're one of those people who has to win by being snide and rude.

Win at all costs, huh?

So what if you have to sell your soul to do it.

[2rth2pwr]

38. So if you happened to have a flag pin on, or a tshirt with the American flag on it

and someone said to you "That is a substitute for true patriotism" you wouldn't be insulted that someone is questioning your intentions?

C'mon.

[last1standing]

39. Did it take you this long to come with something better than "decider" bullshit?

How sad.

[Lautremont]

41. So you don't think that there are some people who wear flag pins

that are truly not patriotic?

[2rth2pwr]

48. Where did I say that?

[Lautremont]

61. I'm inferring it from your statements. What's the answer?

[IntravenousDemilo]

47. Now you've got it! Before, you implied that Obama says wearing a flag pin MAKES you unpatriotic.

Now you're saying he said that "there are people who wear flag pins that (I THINK YOU MEAN "WHO", UNLESS YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE PINS) are truly not patriotic."

That is correct. While it's true that there are patriots who wear the flag pin, it isn't the pin that makes them patriotic. See, there ARE unpatriotic people who wear the flag pin to fool others into believing that they're patriots -- and we may call them Freepers. By the same token, there are unpatriotic people who don't wear one even for the sake of irony.

But there's a fourth group, composed of folks who feel pride in their country, but don't trumpet it to everyone they meet, because that is jingoistic, distasteful, and just plain creepy. They prefer to wear their patriotism inside their hearts, where it will be safe, unless there's a special reason to wear one, such as being presented with one by a veteran in a wheelchair, in which case it would be ungracious not to wear the gift proudly. Wearing a lapel pin in the shape of the US flag doesn't automatically make you patriotic, and if some people don't understand that, well, that's just too damn bad, isn't it?

Dr Johnson was right in any case, when he said that patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. He could have expanded that to cover scoundrels who go on and on and on and on and on and on about other people's patriotism or what they perceive as a lack thereof.

[2rth2pwr]

49. Let's accept what you're saying that everything you say is true, Obama is pointing his finger

at people who he thinks are wearing the pin but are not patriots. He is the decider, and whether or not we agree with him, he is questioning certain people's

patriotism. That is the basis of the OP.

[IntravenousDemilo]

56. I think he prefers to let other people decide for themselves, and for him to decide for himself.

What he's trying to do is make people aware that, yes, not everyone who wears a flag is a patriot, and that patriotism is not defined by bling. And also yes, certain people's patriotism can indeed be questioned, and not because of something as insubstantial as a lapel pin.

Those who fuck the country over while reaping windfall profits for themselves are not patriots, even if they wear a flag pin.

Those who serve the president rather than the constitution are not patriots, even if they wear a flag pin.

Those who lust for power at the expense of truth are not patriots, even if they wear a flag pin.

Those who refuse to pay their proper share of taxes to keep the country running are not patriots, even if they wear a flag pin.

Those who undermine the law or feel they are above it are not patriots, even if they wear a flag pin.

Those who feel they are inherently better than citizens because of race, sex, religion, or sexuality are not patriots, even if they wear a flag pin.

And Bush and his entire cabinet could never be patriots, even if they festooned their entire bodies, cars, and homes with millions of little, glittery Stars-and-Stripes.

[2rth2pwr]

58. Right, Obama is pointing out who is patriotic and who isn't.

[IntravenousDemilo]

60. Well, no, that last bit was just me musing. He may have different definitions, just as YMMV. n/m

[2rth2pwr]

63. Here is Obama again 'After a while, you know, you start noticing people wearing a lapel pin, but not

acting very patriotic, not voting to provide veterans with the resources that they need,' he said."

Source is his website.- http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/11/12/obama_is_a_patriot.php

[IntravenousDemilo]

66. He and I happen to concur there. Treating vets like shit while wearing the trappings of patriotism

and thumping your chest like you're Captain America or something -- well, that's prety lame. Patriotism and ingratitude are seldom found in the same person, and on such people, such superficial indicators of self-styled patriotism are to real patriotism what crocodile tears are to real concern.

That said, I wish Obama would be patriotic enough to recommend that his gay and lesbian fellow citizens have the same rights to marriage that straight citizens have. Clinton and that McCain fella, too. A good indicator of true patriotism is a citizen's respect of other citizens' citizenship.

[BlooInBloo]

9. " I have never challenged other people's patriotism" - there's only one way that can end - LOL!

[Bensthename]

12. Worst post of the day.. Congratulations..

:party: :freak:

[2rth2pwr]

15. Don't fight it, let this post break down the blinders you have have, the blinders that

keep you from seeing what's right in front of you.

[sfam]

18. Its truly sickening when democrats question patriotism as a substitute for dialogue

We've grown to expect this from republicans, but why do we accept this? Truly, how can you stand doing this?

[2rth2pwr]

20. Your subject line is exactly right, why don't you apply that to Obama?

[sfam]

35. Who exactly was he questioning? It's rather CLEAR who's questioning his.

So Obama didn't like that way of displaying his patriotism. How exactly does that translate into questioning others? Who exactly did he question?

Lets be real here - WHY was the question asked of Obama? Hmm...lets think - because people were trying to make a campaign issue out of Obama's patriotism? Or do you think this was just a random query?

Seriously, for you to try to make an issue on Obama of this while the other side is slandering him right and left in these bizarre email campaigns, you really got to check your blind spot.

[2rth2pwr]

37. This has nothing to do with Obama's patriotism, it's about his lying.

[sfam]

59. No, its yet another example of false outrage and innuendo nt

[2rth2pwr]

64. 'After a while, you know, you start noticing people wearing a lapel pin, but not acting very

patriotic, not voting to provide veterans with the resources that they need,' he said."

That's Barack again quesyioning someone's patriotism.


http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/11/12/obama_is_a_patriot.php

[Vinca]

24. I don't get the point of your post.

He was explaining why he doesn't wear a $2.00, Made In China, American flag pin. He doesn't bring this up spontaneously, it's because idiots ask him the stupid, fucking question.

[2rth2pwr]

27. I don't care if he wears the pin or not, but he clearly has questioned whether other

people are showing true patriotism when they wear it. He lied today, that's the point, he lied effortlessly, without blinking an eye, just like he has done consistently


over this campaign.

[Vinca]

33. That's absolutely ridiculous. Up is down, down is up. nt

[HCE SuiGeneris]

25. And you'll say anything in an OP to get attention. Your post is pointless.

[bigbrother05]

26. Is Hillary and her supporters

so desperate, that they can not discuss real issues, this is very telling in this late date, that the JUDGMENT of some Democrats, is really flawed, if you really want to discuss issues that affect everyday lives, you might start by reading some of the post on DU that discuss the issues. Like the war, do you know that 400 civilians were killed in Sadr City, did you know that 4 soldiers were killed today.

[2rth2pwr]

29. What is it that you would like to be talked about regarding the war? I think the candidates

positions are pretty clear.

[bigbrother05]

34. One candidates policy's are pretty clear ,Obama

and one wants to Obliterate Iran.

[dbmk]

31. Seems you are grasping - let me help you out:

[Forkboy]

36. Phony poutrage. Par for your course.

[Bensthename]

40. Oh no.. He did not give the standard political reply, Instead he answered the question at length..

Now that changes everything.. I'm voting Edwards now..


DUMBEST FUCKING POST ALL DAY.. GOOD JOB ON THAT. THAT IS HARD TO DO..

[Brundle_Fly]

44. Seconded

Dumbest post in a while.

[hfojvt]

43. his quote is a generic challenge

as opposed to challenging Hillary's patriotism or Cheney's patriotism. It is a call or challenge to those making the symbol so important to back up their symbolism with action. To recognize the importance of actions over symbolism.

Secondly could we all stop reinforcing the meme that "Democrats have no integrity, they are politicians who will say anything to get elected." Every time you do it against the nominee it is an endorsement of the "straight talkers" like McCain and McBush.

[2rth2pwr]

50. Did we miss the nomination of somebody?

[DemVet]

45. He won't wear a pin....except for a photo-op with a veteran.

[ms liberty]

46. You know, you'll break your legs if you keep twisting around like that...

because I do think you're trying to create an issue where there is none. Unless, of course, your reading comprehension really is that low?

[2rth2pwr]

51. What twist? He says there are people who wear the pin that are not patriots

Then he says he has never questioned anyone's patriotism.

Pretty simple.

[cliffordu]

52. Fuck your Chinese made flag pin.

They pulled Chinese made steel out of me, probably the same shit they use to make them fucking pins.

Now criticize my patriotism.

I wouldn't wear one to save your life.

I wear a small, healed wound in my body instead.


When Obama's patriotism is suspect I'll let you know it. I may be qualified to speak on the subject.

At least he never lied about military service.

The sooner the Pantsuit Ranger steps down the happier I'll be.

The Goddess of Peace and the Lion of Tuzla deserve you, toothy. She really does.

[2rth2pwr]

55. This a post about Obama lying, not about his patriotism.

[cliffordu]

57. Split some hairs, get a prize; Chinese flag pins are considered

a sign of patriotism in this intellectual and moral shithole of a culture.

I know you must be frustrated about your candidate being obliterated by such an egregious liar when she herself is such a pristine character...


Tough shit. get over it.

[casus belli]

54. Did you order some Freedom Fries to go with that whine? n/t

[last_texas_dem]

62. Deleted. Not worth it.

If I'm gonna start saying that about this post, I'd have to post it to thousands of others posted in GD-P to be fair, and I don't have the time.