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Mickey Kantor did NOT utter a racial epithet - forensic proof (large picture)

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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 05:58 PM
Original message
Mickey Kantor did NOT utter a racial epithet - forensic proof (large picture)
Edited on Fri May-02-08 05:58 PM by anigbrowl
There's been a lot of controversy about this today. Here I offer proof that he did not say the 'White nigger' remark attirubted to him. I am sorry about repeating the offending word, I do so only for documentation purposes. I don't believe in writing things like f**k and so on - we are (mostly) adults here.

First, my credentials: I am a professional audio engineer who works in film and TV. I make my living by recording sound on location and editing it in the studio. My 'everyday' microphone is a Schoeps CMIT 5U, which you can pick up for a mere $2000 or so. My total equipment setup is worth close to $20k - I say this not to impress you with my spending ability, but to point out that I am heavily invested in this profession (or I would have a lot more in the bank...).

I downloaded a clip which another member kindly uploaded. Yeah, I hear the offending n-word remarks. Eeeew. But what does that mean? NOTHING. It's easy to edit that stuff in, and very few people are actually as good at lip reading as they would like to believe. I know this because I have faked dialog and changed it in the editing room many many times when the original take did not work for some reason.

Furthermore, the people jumping up and down and insisting that they know what they saw and heard are deluded. None of them seem to have taken on board the fact that video on youtube runs at a different frame rate in order to minimize bandwidth. The original video for this film runs at 29.97 frames per second (I know that without having access to it because it's a SMPTE standard which has governed the manufacture of video cameras since the early days of TV). Youtube videos are generally squeezed down to between 15 and 20 FPS, but nobody thought of that before deciding that they were skilled in forensic audio analysis.

Well, none of this tells us whether it was doctored or not. But what does tell us is taking the audio into an editor and viewing it as a spectrogram.



The graph shows you the audio split into different frequency bands. From this we can deduce things about the provenance of the audio, including whether it has been modified. I am using a nicer spectrogram, from Adobe Audition 3, which allows me to zoom in on different parts of the audio and so forth.

In the audio I downloaded, there are two key characteristics. One is that the frequencies are rolled off above 20Khz. This was almost done by a low-pass filter in the recording mechanism of the camera, which is a standard part of the design. Secondly, there is a hole centered around 11Khz, above which the fequency spectrum is mirrored. The mirroring is due to a phenomenon called aliasing which occurs following certain signal processing operations applied to digital audio. The most likely explanation is that the camera was set to record audio in relatively low quality, topping out around 11KHz. Again, this is a standard thing on video cameras because it means you can squeeze two or four tracks of digital audio recording into a tape instead of just one or two. It's inadequate for a Hollywood movie, but quite OK for a documentary. Most video cameras have an option to switch between full and limited audio sample rates, and 11KHz is quite adequate for documentary sound pickup.

So, I know just from looking at the spectrum how this sound was recorded and I know that it is consistent with in-camera audio recorded at a low sample rate.

BUT when I look at the section where the whispered words 'like to be a white nigger' are heard, it's different. I can see spectral information extending upward in a smooth line all the way up to 22.5 KHz every time there is a plosive transient (go look up what those words mean). This is completely inconsistent with the rest of the audio on the recording, and shows that that segment has not been through the same low-pass filter as the rest of the recorded audio - ergo, it was dubbed.

I would be perfectly comfortable going into court and demonstrating step by step how such a recording could be assembled and still sound real - but the spectral information in the recording makes it abundantly clear that other audio has been dubbed on top, just as there are clued for the experienced eye when looking at a picture that has been modified in Photoshop.

It is actually possible to edit out this spectral information, but few sound editing packages offer this kind of functionality (ie applying edits to only a partion of the frequency spectrum). Mine does; if I had edited this, I could certainly have removed the offending 'fingerprints'. But whoever put the original thing together either did not have access to or did not use the spectral display, and thus left proof of their handiwork all over the file. Ooops.

Bottom line: the phrase 'white nigger' is FAKE and was added to the original recording.

What do I conclude from that? Nothing. Might have been a bitter Obama supporter. Might have been a prankster who wanted to troll. Might have been a false-flag operation by someone on the Clinton or GOP side who decided to offer the Obama people a live hand grenade dressed up as a peach. I have no idea and there is no way to tell. Conspiracy theories are nothing more than theories. Without evidence, you would be foolish to draw any conclusions.

Semi-related: I don't know what he meant about the 'shit' remark ('Look at Indiana - 42-40. Those people are shit--excuse me..'). He might mean the voters, the state campaign team, the pollsters, the Bush campaign team, or anything. I really don't care.

Send me a private message if you want to pass this info on and get my contact details. I already sent this info to a newsweek blogger. I am happy to document it in excruciating technical detail if required.
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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Aaaargg!....Look Out!...Horizontal scroll bars!
How could you? :P
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Sorry...I work on a large screen.
I didn't want anyone whining that I photoshopped it so I just did a print screen of my desktop and added the text markers.
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Brundle_Fly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
39. technically
if you added text markers, you photoshopped it.

just sayin, believe your post though. =)
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #39
49. Actually I added the text in MS Paint :-)
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Brundle_Fly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #49
59. DIEBOLD a BOLICAL!
:D
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zabet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thank you!!
:applause:
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redstate_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. HILLARYOUS
This is just beyond crazy now.

:rofl:

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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I'm an Obama supporter. I am also an audio professional.
Believe me, I am not doing it favor either candidate. I just used my skills and equipment to answer a technical question.
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4_Legs_Good Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
38. I need some lessons on Audition!
Great analysis!

If you were to get audio of the same segment from the film, you could compare it in Audition the same way and see the absence of the artifacts you mention, right?

David
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #38
51. Yes, but please see the update post below.
It transpires that the clip I was given had already had some enhancement (not addition) done to it between being recorded off youTube and uploaded for DU members, which invalidates my original analysis.
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PoliticalAmazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
43. But how do we know you didn't doctor a graphic?....
...Sorry, I had to post the obvious.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. You don't, but see below for an update.
Put it this way, it would have been easier to just modify the audio and tell you what the spectrogram represents.
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msmcghee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks for the very educational post. n/t
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. The whispered phrase in question, although it is not at all clear that he says
what he is purported to say, can be heard clearly on the ORIGINAL, full "War Room" clip, or any clip.

It wasn't "added in," because it's on all the copies. Unless you're saying that the director of the movie added it in.

Obviously, whatever you're saying has to be wrong.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Here's The Transcript
Official Transcript: Kantor Never Impugned Hoosiers
May 02, 2008 6:18 PM

Forgoing for a moment the dirty trick of the doctored clip from “The War Room,” which falsely had Mickey Kantor using a racial slur, the filmmaker behind the documentary has posted the clip on his Web site to clarify that other point of confusion -- what Kantor was referring to when he cursed. (An apparent source of confusion since the movie came out and some newspaper writers thought he was cursing Indianans. See previous post for that.)

Filmmakers Chris Hegedus and D A Pennebaker write: "We would like to respond to some erroneous statements made today about our film, THE WAR ROOM. These statements alleged certain remarks to Mickey Kantor that simply are not true. The transcript of the scene in question confirms this."

The official transcript:

GEORGE AND CARVILLE: Indiana, we're ahead.

JACQUELINE: Indiana!

GEORGE: Kentucky.

CARVILLE: Kentucky is five. Michigan is eleven, New York's done.

GEORGE: Holy s---, we're pulling away in Ohio.

CARVILLE: Oklahoma we're up.

GEORGE: Tied in Texas.

CARVILLE: Tied in Texas. It looks good. Now let's just say that. I like the text here.

GEORGE: Can you beep Wendy please? Looks pretty good. Looks pretty good.

MICKEY KANTOR: Look at Indiana. Wait, wait. Look at Indiana. Forty-two, forty. It doesn't matter if we win. Those people are s----ing (oh, excuse me) in the White House. How would you like to be... Look at Texas, go down to Texas.

CARVILLE: Even.

MICKEY: Yeah. Thirty-nine, thirty-nine.

CARVILLE: Perot's kind of holding, isn't he?

GEORGE: He held.

MICKEY: Yeah, he held. His numbers held. I'm sort of surprised, frankly.

***

So Kantor was NOT insulting Hoosiers, he was experiencing a moment of schadenfreude about the Bush (Sr.) White House.

Check it out HERE.

Now back to that other question -- who did the fake clip with Kantor saying the N word?!

It's the definition of a dirty trick -- and from what I can tell all the YouTube links have disappeared. Fingerprints gone.

- jpt

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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Yeah, they left out a whispered phrase in the transcript. Kantor is whispering to
Steph- you can SEE his mouth moving, and here something being whispered- but they just cut that part out. You can't rest on what they wrote down.


The truth is I can't tell what he was saying. It sounds to me like "How would you like to be....(whispering) on a worthless white tigger (or ticker)." It sounds like a "T," not an "N."

That is on all of the copies I have heard.

I can't go back and listen to the original upload with the subtitles, so I can't say that it wasn't tampered with. But I've listened to a number of different versions, including a long, pretty official-seeming clip, and the same phrase is there in all of them, with different levels of intelligibility.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Here's My Take
Kantor is such a goody two shoes he was afraid to be shown saying shit in the documentary...

They knew they were being filmed... I'm sure if they weren't the documentary would have a lot of F-Bombs because that's how some guys talk when they are with other guys...
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. He is saying how would you like to lose Texas or how would like to be in the White House now
At one point I thought he was saying how would you like to be in the White House war room?

He's being gleefully facetious. Nothing nefarious.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. No - I just remarked on what the audio in the youtube video shows
When that audio was added to the original recording, it is impossible to say. I don't have a copy of the film or I would have pulled the soundtrack to check. If anyone with the DVD does want to give me the audio from the soundtrack I'll do the same analysis and tell you if it's there or not.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. Kantor Should Sue And Subpoeana YouTube To Get The ISP Of The Poster
I would...
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. If he does, I hope to hell the ISP doesn't play ball.
I'm extremely wary of any attempt to regulate speech - especially political content - on the internet. This is a deliberative town square, of which youtube is an important part. Many of us have made oft outlandish claims about who said what and so on. I wouldn't want Big Brother scooping me up and compelling me to testify about substance and motive either.

Besides, Kantor is a public figure and, rightly or wrongly, needs to deal with scrutiny.

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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. He Was Libeled
He has a colorable claim... YouTube can resist the subpoena but I doubt they will prevail... A person thought he was clever and used the Yahoo board to spread false rumors on a stock... Yahoo cooperated with the authorities and the perp was apprehended,tried, and sentenced.


It's a shame somebody will do anything in the name of advocacy... I despise them and my better angels prevent me from posting what I wish happens to them...

Where does Mickey Kantor go to get his reputation back?

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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #37
47. I'm not so sure.
The libel bar is set pretty darn high for public figures to begin with. Here we are in the throws of a political campaign when propaganda proliferates - there are all sorts of crazy videos out there.

Besides, is there not (at least) a plausible deniability defense? I've listened to the clip several times and i'm still not totally convinced Kantor did not use the "shit" reference about Indianans.


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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. The Tape That Has Been Removed
The tape that has been (removed) had subtitles put there by the person who posted it that had Kantor calling Indianans "white ni$$ers"...

The "shit" part is small potatoes compared to that...
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Yossariant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #29
40. Defamation is not protected speech -- never has been.. That's why it's actionable.
Edited on Fri May-02-08 07:11 PM by Yossariant
:smoke:
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Kaylee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
11. Here's my question....
Didn't journalist used to find you tech guys before running with a story like this. One of the casualties of the rush to "beat" the bloggers.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
13. So... he did say "those people are shit"
and you believe that it's only the whisper AFTER that which is dubbed.

And I've been told over and over that he said "those people are shitting...".

So... which is it? Are you right?

I don't care about the "White... inaudible" part because nobody can prove a thing.

I do care that what I heard "Those people are shit. Excuse me." is what is on the DVD (not the possibly doctored You Tube video clip).

And we can leave it up to each person who listens to determine who Kantor was talking about and what he meant by that phrase.

That it seemed to touch such a huge nerve and caused such an uproar is telling.

That Kantor had to whisper something WHILE HE WAS IN CLINTON'S WAR ROOM is even more telling. Kantor knew they were filming and didn't want it captured for posterity, even though they were winning and getting good news that they were winning. That tells me a lot about the character of Mr. Kantor.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. I don't believe it was dubbed, I have proof.
When that dubbing occurred, whether it is present on the original film soundtrack, and who did it, I don't know. I don't have a copy of the movie to check it for myself. I THINK that the point about him referring to the White House with the 'shit' remark is likely true, but I only examined the racial epithet.

All I'm saying is that the 'whorthless white n...' part that was on the YouTube video was added to the original recording at some point.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. The close captioning on the DVD said "those people are gonna shit!"
And it is clear that he didn't say "gonna", but they themselves on the dvd say "shit" rather than "shitting"...

Draw from that what you want.

On the other part they didn't try to translate. They just said "(whispering)"
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Close captioning is very unreliable
and often done long after the film is made, usually by some production company who got to master the DVD.

I've seen some hilarious stuff in the close captioning. I wouldn't count on that or the producer's transcript of the dialog. Forensics I would tend to trust.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Well, one could argue that it was given the approval by the fillmmakers...
... and therefore wasn't a "manipulation" of what is said for a political purpose.

The translator said "gonna" incorrectly, but they also said he said "shit", which is what I heard too. I'm still trying to hear anyone's justification for the rationale that he's saying "shitting". I don't hear it, it's not in closed captioning, and even Kantor himself reportedly acknowledged saying those words.

I'm not ready yet to believe that he's said "white n***"" that is alleged to have been said. I need to get the DVD I have on a better sound system and see if its possible to hear what he says there, but I think that's questionable. But I do see at least his mouth move where that could be what has said where I can't see "gonna", nor do I see the extra syllable after "shit".
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. If you have the DVD, can you get me that part of the soundtrack?
That would allow me to answer this definitively.
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. He was saying Those people are shitting, thats a fact.....
Because the second sentence about the people in the white house verifies his line of speech.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. It might arguably been what he *intended* to say, but he DID NOT say shitting....
Edited on Fri May-02-08 07:02 PM by calipendence
I can hear it, and I don't hear the second syllable. Now one could argue that when he adds the "excuse me" that he cut himself off before he could say "shitting" instead of "shit", but you cannot claim that he actually said "shitting" when he didn't. And as I note, the close captioning says "shit" too, not "shitting".
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #36
60. You do realize we're arguing over semantics on a 16 year old video????
I mean seriously, there is absolutely no doubt that the original video was doctored from White House to White Niggers. So we are now reduced to arguing about what he meant in the first sentence. Honestly, the whole thing is completely retarded and opens the door for people to feel like they can doctor any video they want without repercussions.
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Yossariant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
44. Welll, there's also common sense. Kantor was pleased with and surprised by that result.
Edited on Fri May-02-08 07:18 PM by Yossariant
Where's the context to say, "Those people are shit" --- meaning the voters?

:think:
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MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
15. Was the phrase necessarily fake or amplified? I listened to the original and heard it.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. It couldn't have been. Whatever he says, it's in the original original.
Edited on Fri May-02-08 06:22 PM by BullGooseLoony
There are a number of versions where noise is taken out and the sound is amplified, etc., but I don't know of anything having been put in. The phrase and its sound has been consistent through all of the clips I have seen.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Then get me a copy of the original DVD sountrack and I'll tell you.
It could have been done in the editing room when the film was being made, or be added in from a second microphone. I am not drawing any conclusions about that. All i am saying is that the phrase 'worthless white nigger' was edited in on top of the other audio at some point, and I have shown clearly why that must be so.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. It's fake. Amplifying does not add new spectral information.
If it was amplified all you'd see is that the purple/red sections in the spectrum would change color to orange/yellow. The shape of the spectrogram wouldn't change, only the energy levels within it.

Also, if two people are whispering on the same recording it's pretty much impossible to amplify one and not the other.
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DawgHouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
17. Thanks.
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
22. Thanks.
The jury is out on whether factual data is accepted here. We'll see.
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
25. The reality is that if he had said "white N____r" there would of been an uproar....
The only real debate from the original is whether or not he says "Those people are shitting" or "or those people are shit." He follows it up with the "White House" part. Regardless, we're reduced to talking about a 16 year old video of some campaign advisor.
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Pawel K Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
26. I think you used my sample, this could be the reason for your findings
Edited on Fri May-02-08 06:32 PM by Pawel K
I'm not sure if this would affect your results but I took the small "white n*****" section and changed the frequencies on it as well as added compression and some other stuff I thought would help make it clearer while leaving the rest of the audio alone. My original thread is here and I assume thats where you got it from by the filename: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5787444&mesg_id=5787444

I was going to post this again since that thread got locked. But instead of me posting this since really I don't know what I'm talking about could you please do this annalysis on the original clips, not mine?

Here is the known authentic version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_wKOgMNs0U&feature=related

Here is what is disputed:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0fFZaVlUKzM

I think you are what we need to sort this out so your help would be appreciated.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. OK...give me a few minutes to try that out and I'll report back.
maybe by 5pm PST.
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Pawel K Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Awesome, thanks.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #26
45. UPDATE: Can now NOT say whether it was doctored (my brain hurts)
OK, there are differences between your version and the original versions off YouTube (which I just now recorded using your links). As your thread had been locked by the time I got hold of the wav file, I didn't see the bit about the various changes you had made, which could have added extra spectral info to the file, depending on what they were.

So, I recorded both YouTube clips (the disputed one and the longer extract from the original, which I will henceforth refer to as A and B) and they do NOT show spectral evidence of doctoring - either of them. That is to say, the audio characteristics of both appear to be identical. This does NOT mean they are identical, but that there is no obvious evidence of tampering.

I DID find marginal differences between the two. These could easily have arisen from the fact of the two different clips being encoded on two different computers - unless they were both using the exact same software operating on the exact same clip, you would expect this.

B was somewhat louder than A. I obtained the peak amplitude level of B and normalized A to that amount (that is, i scaled the maximum audio peak of Be to be the same as the maximum audio peak of A). This is just a volume change. Having done so, I noticed little difference. Viewed side by side, peak values of both waveforms match well down to the sample level. Lower amplitude waveforms match approximately in shape but not in amplitude. I tentatively ascribe this to differences in the encoding/compression algorithm, as above.

As a further text, having aligned and locked the waveforms side-by-side so the peaks matched, I inverted A (which I will refer to as A-), then mixed A- with B to see if they cancel (effectively subtracting A from B to produce a new waveform, C). They do not, but this is reproducible with differing codecs as described above. As a test, I inverted C to produce C_, and mixed A- C- B. As expected, this resulted in silence. (the point of this last test was to make sure it wasn't some deficiency in my software - I know it's sample accurate, but I just wanted YOU to know that I checked).

OK, the big question you are asking is "what about the phrase which sounds like 'worthless white nigger'" and the answer is that it DOES appear to present on both waveforms, A and B. That is, it's audible on both the controversial clip and on the longer, uninterrupted segment, both of which I recorded from YouTube.

In short, I was WRONG to say with confidence that YouTube clip had been doctored, as my observations were based on a clip supplied by Pawel (which he has told us he did enhance for clarity purposes) as opposed to an untouched recording from YT. I can NOT say with confidence that the material on YouTube was doctored in terms of having extra audio dubbed on top.

You can argue among yourselves whether pausing and adding subtitling constitutes doctoring. I call that analysis. All I can tell you is that my statement about dubbing having occured based on spectral signatures is NOT correct, as I had downloaded a copy which had been filtered by Pawel K (in good faith, I hasten to add).


I would have to check the DVD to be sure of anything beyond that. It is possible, for example, that the clip A on YouTube was derived from clip B and re-encoded (which would introduce the encoding differences I referred to above). IF clip B (the longer, unedited, unsubtitled extract from the film on YouTube) is an accurate copy, then it would APPEAR that the words in question are present on the soundtrack after all.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. PS if you want pictures....
I could upload further ones just to demontrate what I say about the clips audio peaks matching up and so on.

I am not willing to offer a conclusion at this moment on exactly what words are being said, only that I must retract my earlier argument that they were dubbed in based on spectral analysis. Having listened to thing some 40 or 50 times in the last hour I may have become habituated to the sound. It is very difficult to draw a firm conclusion based on the audio levels, encoding process, and lack of formant information in the source waveform.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #45
56. Thank you for that final report. I appreciate your analysis. I have done quite a bit...
...of video editing and analysis but with VDub (mostly) which, especially on the audio end of things, comes up short. Anyway, the only people I've ever seen change their opinions in matters like this on the Internet are real experts. Everyone else is cheerfully willing to stick to their guns ad infinitum. I'm really glad that you took the time to get back to us- I had a sinking feeling that you might not reply and then, since you piqued my interest, I'd have to acquire the appropriate software and spend the time doing it, knowing that there are gaps in my audio analysis skills big enough to pass a baby elephant through.

  It's really nice to see you clarify things. I, and I'm sure a number of others, understand most of what you're saying, and I was reading as carefully as I dare. Thank you for the attention to detail and searching for the facts, insofar as they may be revealed, wherever they lead.

PB
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Pawel K Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #45
57. Thanks for your work, it's really appreciated. And my apologies for the confusion
I should have made it clear in my post what I did with the clip.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #45
58. Thanks. Appreciate the extra work.
And you're a big person.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
30. Thanks, good job.
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Freedom Train Donating Member (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
34. Amazing and impressive!
At least to me, who have no experience working with sound. A sincere thank you for your work with this!

As for the shit part, the official transcript along with a statement from the director has been released and is among the threads here. He was saying they were shitting themselves in the White House.

Whoever did this better hope they are never found out, because there'll be hell to pay, legally and morally.

Once again, thank you for your valuable contribution!
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Mobius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
35. Yeah well such an ameteur job
could only be for one reason. To be purposely "caught"
I'd say this is more like a Hillary ploy to get people to think Obama tries some dirty politics, or it was just some Obama supporter trying to do him a favor, or just some moron that wanted a popular video.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
41. Nice work -- thanks for the visual!
I am not buying the 'shit' explanation either.

He was simply emphasizing the first half of the word and trailing off on the second. Clearly can hear SHIT-ing as opposed to how yelling the whole word SHITTING would sound.

Did that part pick up (the faint 'ing' at the end)?
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
42. Thanks, but I'll believe the people who own the DVD, played it, and heard it.
Nice pretty picture but it's meaningless.
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Mobius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #42
53. Not really
unless you have ostrich blood.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #42
55. The picture is not meaningless. However...
in scientific terms, it turns out that my analysis was on a contaminated sample. Please see #26 and #45.
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
50. You are very impressive. Bravo!!
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
54. IMPORTANT: please posts #26 and #45 for an update
I can not edit the original post as the time to do so has expired. However, my original analysis was INCORRECT, because it turns out that the audio I analysed was NOT straight off YouTube.
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