Video of Kantor no longer available on DU or Huffpo??? Hmmmmmmm

[Pisces]

Don't know what that means. Maybe You Tube was threatened sufficiently to take it down. Down with the free press!!

[Yael]

1. I grabbed a copy -- will put on my website and link it here

[npincus]

11. please post a thread when you do.

:)

I wish I had the original dvd.

[Yael]

15. I posted that section of the original in the video section

[npincus]

42. that came from YouTube... i saw that

I was hoping someone could independently verify this with their own or a rented dvd copy. SOmething that someone posted on YouTube, it could be argued, may have been messed with.

[Yael]

43. Gotcha

[lumberjack_jeff]

12. Good for you.

Let us know how that works out for you.

I know a couple of good lawyers, if you need 'em.

[Yael]

20. Yeah, because I didn't think to PM Skinner and ask him. Waiting to hear back.

[lumberjack_jeff]

47. I am too subtle.

The videos were pulled most likely because the producer of the original movie has asked a court to enjoin those who are distributing it to cease doing so.

You have the right to free speech. If the speech is defamatory, you are subject to civil penalties.

By all means, stick to your guns if you think it worth it, but be aware that the person who is being misquoted and the director of the movie have both made their intentions clear.

[Yael]

52. He wasn't misquoted

HUGE difference. ;)

[lumberjack_jeff]

60. Okee dokey then.

My offer of lawyer referrals still stands.

[ClayZ]

46. Still here:

For the time being....


http://youtube.com/watch?v=4_wKOgMNs0U&feature=related

[AllexxisF1]

70. Wow there is no doubt that he did not not say those terrible things.

I just watched the unedited version and he is clearly not saying any of the things that was in the movie earlier today. Whoever did that movie was masterful at making it seem otherwise.

Almost reminds me of those things late night talk show guests do to make it sound like people are cursing when they are not by using bleep methods.


I owe this guy an apology he did not say those things.

[Occam Bandage]

2. ABC's blog on it got taken down too. She's shaping up to be as totalitarian as Bush.

[displacedtexan]

56. She?

Color me confused.

[NJmaverick]

3. Political power and lots of lawyers will hide the truth, until it no longer matter

which is after the IN primary

[Moochy]

4. This worked for me

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x126788

[Bill219]

5. somebody needs to rent it from Blockbuster today

I added it to my Netflix list but it will not be here for a few days

[leftofcool]

6. Because it is a fake

[Occam Bandage]

13. According to the Clintons, yes. According to the original video, no Since when

are political videos erased from the internet just because the target disputes their validity?

[leftofcool]

24. According to the Director of the original it is a fake

also confirmed by an independent audio expert. But of course, you Obama supporters are so much smarter than the director of the original, aren't you. Circulating a fake video is pathetic

[CoffeeCat]

59. The Director is in the Clinton camp....

...and was given free access to the campaign--because that person
is a Clinton sympathizer.

I'm sure Hillary made a call and got him to make the statement about
the video being a fake.

There are many clips, coming from a variety of sources--that are all the
original movie.

These are Kantor's words.

The Clintons can lie and spin themselves silly.

And threatening lawsuits...oh please. :eyes:

Who are they going to sue...Kantor for saying stupid things?

[SOS]

62. Is there only one anonymous "independent audio expert" in this country?

The War Room audio is clearly audible.

on edit: Here's Kantor's pathetic defense, posted at Huffington Post today:

"You can't tell what it is I'm saying in that second sentence, you can't decipher that."

Impressive. "you can't decipher that".
With functioning speakers it's actually quite easy.
Good luck with that lawsuit Mickey. Awesome defense!

[rentonpunk]

7. Poor obama supporters - always grasping at straws..

[tridim]

How much did Hillary's Camp pay you to come here and say that?

Psst.. Next time try padding your post count before spewing your crap.

[leftynyc]

34. I don't need to pad anything

The DIRECTOR of War Room says it's fake. Take it up with him.


http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0508/Pennebaker_Clip_Doctoered.html

[CoffeeCat]

49. The director of "War Room" is a Clinton lap dog...

Obviously, the Clintons aren't stupid.

They aren't going to give unfettered access to the behind-the-scenes of their campaign,
without positive assurances that he is in their pocket.

More outrages lies and spin as the panic-mode Clintons attempt to do damage control.

Everyone can see that it's not fake.

All you have to do is pull up the original on the Internet, or rent it at Blockbuster.

The Clintons are only digging themselves in deeper, by piling on the lies.

[leftynyc]

68. Believe what you like

You're obviously too far gone to be practical.

[Occam Bandage]

21. Man, the socks are out in force today. Astroturfing + silencing dissent = Clinton '08.

[LakeSamish706]

8. Can you imagine how Hill must be fuming right now.... lol... I would not want...

to be anywhere near her right now... Shes probably throwing things or maybe people.

[grantcart]

9. Drudge's link is dead too fucking unbelievable

[lumberjack_jeff]

10. The original is still there

The doctored one? I dunno.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_wKOgMNs0U

[ShortnFiery]

16. Hey! Someone with video conversion software save it?!?

[JackORoses]

18. all versions have him calling Indianans Shit. You cannot hide that.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

19. Yes, the original is completely accessible, The fake one can probably be found somewhere but not

on an MSM site, definitely.

[CoffeeCat]

65. Nothing is fake--all videos show the SAME thing...

There is no difference between the video that we saw first----and the "War Room"
clips that are all over the Internet, and rentable at Blockbuster!

No doctoring happened.

I understand that this is the meme that Clinton wants circulated, until they figure
out what the next step is.

However, it's clearly a bag of lies.

All you have to do is pull up the thousands of "War Room" clips that are up on the
Internet, and have been up for years.

You guys need to have some dignity through this process. Your spin cycle is showing
and it's soooo easily debunked!

[Indenturedebtor]

40. They both work the same for me

I have a volume slider on my PC :eyes:

Does this disturb you Clinton people at all that they're trying to suppress this with lawyers and bullying? :shrug:

[2rth2pwr]

14. There are millions of copies of the movie all over the country. The doctored one seems to have

been pulled.

[Occam Bandage]

What differences do you detect from the subtitled and non-subtitled versions?

I have: The "worthless white nigger" comment is louder in the subtitled version. What else do you have?

[ShortnFiery]

29. OMG! Straight up? Is THAT subtitle ... exactly read, "worthless white nigger"? Re: Indiana People

[2rth2pwr]

41. You guys so want it to be true. LOL!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/02/clinton-adviser-claims-in_n_99810.html

Indeed, a review of the original copy of the 1993 film The War Room, from which the excerpt was taken (around the 4:40 mark) is virtually inaudible. The sound suggests, if anything, that instead of saying "How would you like to be a worthless white n****r?" Kantor says, "How would you like to be in the White House right now?"

The cropped video, which spread through the Internet like wildfire on Friday morning, shows Kantor with fellow former Bill Clinton staffers James Carville and George Stephanopoulos discussing results from the general election. In the footage, Kantor approaches the two aides and says, "Look at Indiana -- wait, wait, look at Indiana. 42-40. It doesn't matter if we win, those people are shit." That much seems true. The rest can be viewed below:

Kantor, on Friday, insisted that the latter part of his statement never took place and that it made no sense for him to use such language.

"Indiana was not even on our radar screen," he said, "And I was talking about the polling and not the people... If you look at The War Room, this is not the way Carville or George interpreted my statement. This is frankly libelous."

Kantor said he was in the process of contacting "the best" libel lawyers to approach YouTube.com about the process of removing the video from its site. He suggested that The Huffington Post, too, should not print even his defense, as it would be an advancement of a non-story.

"I don't need to be defended," he wrote. "When you write it, what you are doing is extended the libel."

While Kantor said he had no idea who was behind the video or what intent he or she might have, he offered that political motives were at play.

"Many people are subject to this kind of being used in a way to try and stir people up," he said. "I can't say it more clearly, but I had never used that word... My parents would come from the grave and kill me if I used that word."

[2rth2pwr]

33. Here is what I have. The Obama smear team is at it again.

Indeed, a review of the original copy of the 1993 film The War Room, from which the excerpt was taken (around the 4:40 mark) is virtually inaudible. The sound suggests, if anything, that instead of saying "How would you like to be a worthless white n****r?" Kantor says, "How would you like to be in the White House right now?"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/02/clinton-adviser-claims-in_n_99810.html

The cropped video, which spread through the Internet like wildfire on Friday morning, shows Kantor with fellow former Bill Clinton staffers James Carville and George Stephanopoulos discussing results from the general election. In the footage, Kantor approaches the two aides and says, "Look at Indiana -- wait, wait, look at Indiana. 42-40. It doesn't matter if we win, those people are shit." That much seems true. The rest can be viewed below:

Kantor, on Friday, insisted that the latter part of his statement never took place and that it made no sense for him to use such language.

"Indiana was not even on our radar screen," he said, "And I was talking about the polling and not the people... If you look at The War Room, this is not the way Carville or George interpreted my statement. This is frankly libelous."

Kantor said he was in the process of contacting "the best" libel lawyers to approach YouTube.com about the process of removing the video from its site. He suggested that The Huffington Post, too, should not print even his defense, as it would be an advancement of a non-story.

"I don't need to be defended," he wrote. "When you write it, what you are doing is extended the libel."

While Kantor said he had no idea who was behind the video or what intent he or she might have, he offered that political motives were at play.

"Many people are subject to this kind of being used in a way to try and stir people up," he said. "I can't say it more clearly, but I had never used that word... My parents would come from the grave and kill me if I used that word."

[leftynyc]

39. How about the DIRECTOR of the film

saying it's fake. Does that convince you?

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0508/Pennebaker_Clip_Doctoered.html

[ShortnFiery]

25. Yes, and Mickey's still essentially calling Indiana people "Shit" and "White Niggers"

That should play well for Miss. Hilly next Tuesday? :shrug: :nuke:

[2rth2pwr]

30. What do you mean by essentially?

[ShortnFiery]

36. 4:45: "Those people are shit. How would you like to be a worthless white nigger?"

How's that for you ... or would you prefer the video with subtitles? I hear that it's also subtitled. :wow:

[2rth2pwr]

45. You're sick. Seriously, look at the evidence.

[Dogmudgeon]

17. You can rent it at any decent video place.

The War Room

Ask for it by name.

--p!

[CoffeeCat]

22. They have NO legal standing!

This video is in the public domain.

It's Kantor's own words!!!!

They have no legal grounds to stop this video from being on the Internet.

What's Kantor going to do...sue himself for what he said?

If the video is being taken down--it's being done purely for political reasons.

I guess we'll see how dictatorial the Clinton campaign is????

Did the Obama campaign demand that the videos of Rev. Wright be taken down? And did the
media capitulate within 10 seconds after the marching order came down?

Man, the Clintons are entrenched elitists that have unparalleled, improper
influence with the corporate media.

BE AFRAID, NOT ONLY OF KANTOR'S COMMENTS, BUT OF THE CLINTON'S ENTRENCHMENT WITH THE CORPORATE MEDIA!!!!

[Texas Hill Country]

26. problem is two fold, 1. it may not be his words, and 2. lawyers are expensive

[leftofcool]

28. Excuse me, the director is suing and you can bet he has legal grounds

[CoffeeCat]

35. The director is suing for what?

The director can sue no one.

The "War Room" video is part of the public domain, and has been so--for a long, long time.

Just because someone finally noticed these comments, doesn't mean that someone can come
out and sue.

There's absolutely no legal case.

Unless the director wants to sue Kantor for being a complete ass.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

31. Anyone who publishes false information is liable for libel.

First year law school type of stuff.

[CoffeeCat]

50. There is no case for libel...

These are Mickey Kantor's own words.

Who are they going to sue...Kantor himself?

I know the elements of libel very well--and not one of them
fits in this situation.

The comments must be FALSE---and how can words coming out of Kantor's mouth--be false?

There are original clips----all over the Internet--from a variety of sources.

They all show the same thing.

No libel here. That assertion is completely false and demonstrates a complete ignorance
on the elements of libel.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

66. They would sue the publisher of the "enhanced audio" clip

Youtube, ABC, MSNBC, HuffPost, Drudge, Kos, what have you.....Whoever propogates false information about another is liable for defamation.

It doesn't matter if the "enhanced audio" clips proports to show Kantor making the slur. If he in fact did not make the slur as the "enhanced audio" clip claims he does, there is action for libel and defamtion.

Note that the "enhanced audio" version and the original version are not the same.

Now, perhaps there is an argument due to the fact that Kantor can be considered a public official/figure...a heightened standard exists that shows that the publisher must either know that the clip was false or reasonably should have known the clip was false. New York Times v. Sullivian, I believe it is.

But just because the version at issue--the "enhanced audio" version--purports to show Kantor saying something, does not mean that Kantor actually said it, if the allegations of doctoring are true. Liability would most definetly exist.

[CoffeeCat]

69. Enhancing the sound...

...so you can hear better--would not be libel.

There is no evidence that the video was altered.

That's an unsubstanciated Clinton talking point.

[lumberjack_jeff]

64. The documentary is a copyrighted work

The owners of that copyright have absolute right to control distribution.

Those that alter the movie, (and distribute the altered version) take a big risk.

[speedoo]

23. The original is still on youtube:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x126788

Only difference is the titles.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

27. 4:45 here...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4_wKOgMNs0U&feature=related

[ShortnFiery]

32. "Those people are shit. How would you like to be a worthless white nigger?"

:wow: :nuke:

[cottonseed]

48. I think he said, "those people are shitting".

I would agree with them there. However, the "How would you like to be a worthless white nigger?" can be plainly heard. My only issue with it is that the movement of his lips don't seem to jive with what was said. If anyone gets in big trouble on this, it might end up being the film makers themselves (if it's proven that they did something a little fishing in post-production).

[Marie26]

54. It's doctored

Someone took the clip, overlaid it w/new audio, & released it to an admiring audience on Youtube.

[cottonseed]

58. Wasn't that for the video that broke this morning?

I was looking at a clip from a series taken of the original documentary. I wasn't looking at the video that's already been pulled.

[Yael]

67. Huh? "How would you like to be those people are shitting"

That doesn't even make sense.

[Secret_Society]

37. Maybe news sites are pulling because they don't want to report on a fake video

But let's overlook reason...Hillary's a totalitarian dictator.

[newmajority]

38. Unfortunately, YouTube caves into corporate "intellectual property rights" bullshit far too easily.

Since the director of the War Room is obviously shilling for Team Hillary, even going as far to LIE about what is in his own film, no doubt he also threatened YouTube and whomever else was posting the clips.

And none of you corporate defenders bother making the "ownership" argument, as that's entirely another discussion. This one was done for purely political reasons, and Team DLC is spinning this faster than a spider on crystal meth.

[ShortnFiery]

44. The genie's out of the bottle: All the M$M can NOT "cover up" what has been sold en masse. eom

[Marie26]

51. So you're cool with dirty tricks?

Cause that's exactly what this was. Someone doctored the video & released it to swiftboat Clinton in Indiana. The clip was doctored to insult Clinton's key demographic in IN (white working-class voters) & brand her as an elitist. They released it virally the week of the IN primary, in the hopes that it would be circulated widely before anyone debunked it, and so that it couldn't be traced. How can anyone defend this? It's a dirty campaign trick.

[Yael]

53. The only 'doctoring' was adding subtitles to the existing footage.

[techtrainer]

57. and changing the sound!

[Yael]

63. Enhancing sound isn't overlaying with new audio

The person who put it on YouTube says they did not alter it.

UPDATE: I spoke to the editor of the video who said that he enhanced, but didn't alter, the audio in the second portion of the video.

Believe who you want. I listened to the original and heard it with my own ears. Had to use my iPod headphones, the computer speakers aren't sharp enough to pick it up.

Edit to add link for quote: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0508/Pennebaker_Clip_Doctoered.html

[Marie26]

61. Yeah, good luck with that.

Obama fans should give up on this now, rather than clinging to a fake video. The film-maker himself says that wasn't what Kantor said, Youtube is pulling the clips, the news media is pulling the story. Because it's FAKE, and when the news media realized that, they got rid of the story rather than contribute to libel against a presidential candidate. This is a massive (temporarily successful) hoax. You got punk'd, is all.

[BklnDem75]

55. This link?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/02/clinton-adviser-claims-in_n_99810.html

Oh you meant the vid. Sorry. Didn't read that all the way through

[VotesForWomen]

71. or perhaps they were rightfully concerned about losing a libel suit? nt