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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:54 AM
Original message
I Vow to Keep Posting Obama/Clinton Unity Threads Until They Form Their Ticket
I dont care how many threads say Recommend ME if you dont want to think about unity. They can rise all the way to heaven. I have crunched the numbers over and over, and my math (as opposed to Karl Roves) tells me that a Democratic ticket with Obama/Clinton will win this fall. It will not be easy, because the move will be gutsy, but the win will be all the more important, because it will be a hard fought battle.

I. The Math The prolonged primary season has been good for the Democrats in one way. It has encouraged record numbers of Democrats to register and participate in the primary process.

http://www.democrats.org/a/2008/02/democrats_shatt.php

People who bothered to come to the polls and vote for either Clinton or Obama are likely to do it again this fall if the candidate they support is on the general election ballot. Good turn out is good for the Democratic Party. There is only so much E-vote fraud that Republicans can use. In 2006, the Democrats were able to retake the Senate because the GOP election fraud system ran up against that pesky old margin of error and could not steal any more votes (the Democratic victory probably would have been larger without e-vote fraud). It is not going to be enough to have a squeaker. Dems need to play all their cards. If both Obama and Clinton have a sizable, devoted following within the Democratic Party, then get that party back to the polls this November. Do not take a chance that some voters will be disappointed that their candidate is not going all the way to the White House.

Obama and Clinton make a combo, because they compliment each other in terms of Democratic base. Obama has the youth vote, which is larger this year than it has been in a long time.

http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/bawnews/moving...

He has the African-American vote which will likely turn out in record numbers in the general as in the primaries. He has the educated, higher income vote and a cross over vote that poaches from some traditional Republican and Independent voting blocks.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/106381/Obama-Education-Gap-E...

Obama makes up for his poorer performance among voters with the least formal education by doing well against McCain among college graduates -- particularly those with postgraduate education (who tend to vote Democratic) but also on a relative basis among those with a four-year college degree only, a reliable Republican group.


That is good. Obama has the potential to grab some economic Republicans who are fed up with the recession, the high price of gas and the war.

Clinton has an important Democratic base, too. It includes older voters, who are some of the most reliable at going to the polls. Hispanic voters, who have been alienated by the GOPs racist-sounding anti-immigration rhetoric.

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/742/hispanic-vote-exit-poll...

She also appeals to lower income, blue college Democrats with a high school education. See the gallup link above. The reason why this is important is because John McCain has the potential to poach these voters (who are sometimes pejoratively called Reagan Dems a term I abhor) away from Obama. They perceive him as a fighter, a war hero, one of them (even though he isnt and even though he will not represent their economic interests). With Clinton on the Democratic ticket, they are more likely to retain their party loyalty.

II. History . This is the winning strategy of 1960, when JFK and LBJ, two very different politicians with different styles and different bases combined to defeat the Vice President of a popular president in a time of relative prosperity and contentment. That election was a close one. This election should not be so close, except that we know that Karl Rove will use his usual array of dirty tricks. These will include having media whores spread propaganda against the Democrats. Using the DOJ to prosecute Democratic politicians and hinder get out the vote drives. Having the Republicans in Congress stall voting reform legislation. E-vote fraud will be used. Nader will be supported by the GOP since this will allow them to shave extra points with E-vote fraud from the Democrats vote totals above what would be allowed from the margin of error. Exit pollsters will be hindered. Public transportation may be stopped as it was in Fort Worth in 2006, when the Teamsters Union (supporters of Texas Republican Governor Rick Perry) called a sudden unnecessary strike of bus service in the city during the November election, a strike which ended abruptly a couple of days later with no concessions. There may be bogus terror warnings in urban centers. These tactics and more will serve to level the play field which should be extremely lop sided considering the recession, the war, the price of oil and John McCains obvious neurological problems.

Another dirty trick that we need to be prepared for is the Brokered Democratic Convention. Rush Limbaugh was not joking when he called for riots in Denver. The RNC will not be able to stage these if both Obama and Clinton are on the ticket. The Democrats will go to Denver unified. All the work that the RNC has spent trying to Divide and Conquer the party as it was divided and conquered in 1968 by the assassination of Bobby Kennedy and then in 1972 by CREEP will go down the toilet.

Another RNC plot will be wasted too. I refer to the ongoing plan to tar either Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton as a dirty tricksters who stole the Democratic Primary. Everyone here knows how the Hillary is a dirty trickster media narrative will go. We are writing it everyday in DU.

Only six people at DU noticed when I wrote a journal about how the mainstream media has been working on a narrative for the RNC which I call Barack Obama is a dirty Chicago style politician . I am going to link it here and post some highlights from it, because I think that it is important to know that the same news guys who pretend to feel things tingle up their thighs when they hear him talk have been scheming against him behind his back for a solid year and a half, laying the ground work for the Republicans general election attacks on him---attacks that will be meaningless if his primary opponent chooses to run as his VP.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Here is Howard Fineman last December:

But consider these facts. His political roots were planted on the South Side of Chicago. The Daley Family backs him. His top advisor is the mustachioed David The Ax Axelrod, one of the toughest touts in the business. His campaign was reborn on Oct. 30 in Philadelphia, when he and John Edwards joined forces to label Hillary Clinton in almost so many words a corrupt liar. And in just the last few days, Obama has launched a tough direct-mail assault against her health care plan, also accusing Edwards of having done nothing in the Senate in the name of political reform.
So much for Mr. Nice Guy.


Here is Matthews from 2006:

MATTHEWS: Did he, well, welsh on the deal?
McCAIN: Say that again.
MATTHEWS: Did he welsh on the deal? Did he double-cross you by going partisan after promising to go bipartisan with you, senator?
McCAIN: You know, I'm sorry, it's garbled, Chris, you're going to have to try to repair it, because I'm, you're, you're garbled.


On Tucker, June 2007

FERGUSON: Well, I think they realize that once Obama stops Hillary, we're going to wish that Hillary will turn around and stop Obama, once we get to know him. You know, this thing -- and we are just getting to know him, that's part of the point of this Times story and why it's so interesting. And it shows why there hasn't really been a serious presidential candidate from Illinois since 1956, Adlai Stevenson. Illinois politics is uniquely corrupt, and anybody who succeeds in it is going to sooner or later wind up in bed with a man like this Rezko fellow. Pols in Illinois keep guys like him around to help with the real estate deal here, maybe to give their cousin a job, or fill up a board seat there. You know, this is -- you can't get away from this in Illinois politics, and nobody has, and sure enough, Barack Obama's one of them.


There is a lot more in the journal. I could never figure out why none of the Obama supporters on the board read it. If I were backing a candidate, I would want to know the GOP oppo so I could counter it.

As I showed with my recent journal on the Race Memo, the MSM, especially the guys at the GE empire were careful to leave a trail a mile wide of inflammatory news stories after that memo was published in the Huffington Post. Sure, GE/MSNBC may have helped Obama get a few extra votes in South Carolina, but what they really accomplished is they left an internet record with which the McCain camp---or more likely the RNC, since straight shooter McCain will not do his own oppowill be able to prove that Obama forced the MSM to spread lies about the Clintons. They even quoted him saying twice that his campaign had nothing to do with any of the race stuff, something that Karl Rove could easily twist later into a lie. If the guys at GE/MSNBC are supposed to be Obamas friends, why did they do that? In order to help the favorite son of the Pentagon (GEs biggest contractor) in the fall election? McCain could point to that Memo at a later date and say to Hillarys blue collar basewhich Gallup says is already predisposed to like McCain---Poor Hillary. She was robbed.

One way to defuse this time bomb is to bring it out into the open now, deal with it, get it behind us and then select a winner. If Obama wins even after we have discussed it, then no one can say he won by a "dirty trick", because a dirty trick has to be secret.

The bomb becomes a dud if the Dems decide on the Unity ticket.

III. Reconciliation None of the divide and conquer shit that the news media has been pulling will amount to a hill of beans if the two candidates prove that fighting for the good of American people is all that they have really been fighting for. If Clinton can say I dont mind that Obama said x, y and z about me. It just proves he is dedicated to the cause. And Obama says That Hillary is some kind of spunky fighter then the American Democrats will be happy. The press wont like it. They will try to start wars. They will read weird meanings into every little word and gesture of Bill and Michelle. Screw the press.

Now, Clinton supporters are going to argue that she should be at the head of the ticket, because she has more experience. However, this is America, and I do not think that we are ready for the electorate to vote for a woman president. Woman as help-mate, sure. Also, Obama is more presidential. I know that sounds dumb, but since the advent of television in presidential campaigns in 1960, candidates have had to pass the photogenic test. Obama has what Bill Clinton had. He can get himself out of any kind of shit by giving a speech. Hillary can not do that. That ability will allow Obama to do what presidents have to do in their role as head cheerleader, build consensus, quiet worry, encourage hope. There will be plenty of public servant type stuff that Hillary can do.

In Duluth Gore Vidal had the idea of multiple presidents for each of the many tasks required of the president. It was a joke in that book, but we have seen a bit of it in real life. Nixon had Kissinger. Bush has Cheney. Clinton used both his wife and Gore. LBJ turned out to be a fortuitous choice for VP for JFK, since he was able to accomplish many of the things that JFL would have liked to have done if he had had more time. Obama and Clinton would be just like JFK and LBJ, two very different people with different strengths and different bases who do not see eye to eye but who can combine their forces to get the job done.

The main reason to create the Unity ticket is to heal the Party. This primary is not about either of the candidates or their aspirations. It is about voters who have been pissed on for yearscenturies in the case of Blacks, Latino immigrants, women, gays. It is about economic justice. If we have a chance to invite a few people to the table or all the people to the table, it is better to invite all the people to the table. Particularly in a democracy, where all the people have a vote.

I do not want to hear But Clinton is rich! Poor people should not vote for her! We need to teach them the error of their ways. She is the hope of a whole bunch of working class, underemployed, undereducated, disadvantaged people right now, and who would we be to deprive them of their hope, especially if it leads them to vote for their economic advantage? Plus, it is false to think that only poverty can understand or empathize with poverty. She has found some kind of common groundand no, it is not xenophobia. The GOP has a lot more of that to offer people who are looking for something to hate.

Poverty dehumanizes rich and poor alike. In the first place, the poor ;poverty carries with it all kinds of needs; it destroys emotional life, ones relationship with others; it continually places obstacles in the way of the essential vocation of human beings to develop themselves and expand their abilities beyond the survival instinct; it leads them to envy, hatred, violence against those responsible for their misery, and often against God, raising their fist against heaven

It dehumanizes the rich because it leads them to consider the poor as inferior, outcasts of society, the dead weight of history. In those societies where there was slavery, there was a brutal dehumanization of the poor.Both sides live full of fear; the poor because of the continuous threats against them and the rich because of the vindictive rebellion of the poor.


To live humanly means to feel the warmth of someone who says to us in spite of our physical and moral misery; It is good that you exist, Brother. You are welcome. The sun is also yours, the air is everybodys, and love can unite our hearts.
Leonardo Boff Saint Francis: A Model For Human Liberation


Obama offers hope for the young and for African-Americans of all economic classes. Hillary offers hope to the economically disadvantaged and elderly. Hope is hope, wherever it is offered. If it gets Americans to the polls to take charge of their own destiny, then it the right thing.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. I wouldn't mind the ticket.
But that's just my opinion. Everyone else says it would be suicide.
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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
85. I was a couple of days ahead of you, McCamy... still in the same place.
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 08:52 PM by Radio_Lady
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I hope these two excellent candidates see fit to form a united ticket. "The people, united, will never be defeated..."

Either O-C or C-O works for me. The Democrats absolutely have to unite to work against the Republicans during the short weeks between the August Democratic Convention and the General Election on Tuesday, November 4.

This is a "King Solomon" decision and my husband and I have not come to it easily.

The two very divided sides of our party are TOO STRONG to bury either of them.

PS. There are some very kind people who agreed with me, and I'm hopeful about that. We do not need to tar and feather the white woman and the black man.

Cordially,

Radio Lady in Oregon

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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. They are good together...
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 01:58 AM by prodn2000
Thye make people pay attention.

White women & African-American men have, for too long, wanted their voices heard. This year, they have had their voices magnified.

Why end it?
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Frederick Douglas and the Grimke Sisters on Tour again!
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. Well, I have to admit
I admire your tenacity and see where you are coming from with your idea.

Getting supporters of both candidates together, however, would make climbing Mount Everest look like a day at a spa resort. Good luck!
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Wait! Do you mean my travelocitee.com package to Mt. Everest
is going to require climbing?

In these shoes?
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
24. Yup, it's a steep, steep climb too.
:P
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
6. If it happens, it happens.
But my money's on it not happening.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. How many food tasters will he have? nt
Can he hire his own Secret Service?
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
87. lol
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:11 AM
Response to Original message
8. And I vow to keep recommending such threads!
:thumbsup:
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StevieM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
9. I don't think either wants to be VP. (eom)
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #9
27. Doesn't matter what they want. They have to do it for the party. Hillary is more a party player
I think. She has been around a long time. Plus women are used to playing second fiddle for the good of the group so it will seem more comfortable for her. Bill will be the problem, but it is not his decision to make.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. If they REALLY care about the party, they realize that a unity ticket would be a disaster in the GE
...
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #31
45. This could be the issue that shows
us if either or both really care about the country. If either can nix this after a careful look at reality, then we know that one is only out for themselves. I also say flip a coin. Six months ago, ninety per cent of Democrats said they would be happy with either. Then six months of neocon media blitz and we are in the situation we now have.
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susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #27
36. Bill can be the Pitbull on the back porch of the White House.
He'll be happy. I can see the grin.

And... Obama couldn't have a better GOP Pitbull if he hired one himself.
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Nine Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
74. That's exactly what would bother me about an Obama/Clinton ticket.
"women are used to playing second fiddle for the good of the group"

Feminist pride was never one of my main reasons for supporting Clinton as the nominee, but I do think gender is a large factor (though not the only factor) in the anti-Hillary passions that I see on both the left and the right, and that raises my hackles. Whether or not an Obama/Clinton ticket is a good strategic move, I can't say. But if it's meant to appease Hillary supporters on an emotional level, I can only say it wouldn't work on me. I would be downright pissed to see a 60 year old woman with all her experience playing "second fiddle," as you say, to a 46 year old guy with much less experience. It just makes me think of the Lily Tomlin character from "9 to 5" and how the men she trained were inevitably promoted over her. Of course I would vote for the ticket because I'm a straight-D voter always. But I wouldn't like it. It's a shame because I always thought a Clinton/Obama ticket would be unbeatable, and then he would be the inevitable 2016 nominee anyway.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:17 AM
Response to Original message
10. She's already shown to be unfit for office. ANY public office.
I should hope that we get a better senator to represent New York, after this.

Unity? With the Karl Rove wing of the democratic party? No thanks.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Are you from NY? Did you vote in 00 & 06?
Are you going to declare residency in NY for the 2012 Democratic Primary?

If not, then STFU.

Thanks!

:loveya:
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Remember when Ned Lamont beat Joe Lieberman in the CT Primary?
You don't actually think that was only because of people registered to vote in CT, do you?

Sure, it didn't work out well in the end, but you'll have that, when Democrats rush to embrace the GOP in order to maintain their stranglehold on power, and the GOP happily returns the embrace.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. HRC is not Joe Turncoat
And I was for Lamont. (I sent money.)



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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. If that's the case...
... then why are you telling others to "STFU" when it comes to sticking their noses in Senate races in states in which they're not registered to vote?

Are you a resident of Connecticut or something?

Hillary's no more a sacred cow than any other politician. Period.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. That seat is Hillary Clinton's as long as she wants it.
Deal with it.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Wow!!!
So Hillary's a member of the Politburo now? Who knew!

What if The Queen wants her Senate seat, but the voters of New York want to choose someone else? I know that might sound jarring, but seriously, what if?

You're scaring me a little.
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #20
112. It's that entitlement thingie, Jen - her supporters are corrupted by it also.
"As long as she wants it"!?!?!?!? That would save all the bother and fuss and expense of political campaigns.

I just got back from NYC, visiting family. Of course, those damned, well-educated and/or well-read Manhattanites - think HRC & Bill have been corrupted by power and are driven by greed; are trying to destroy Obama's candidacy so HRC/Bill can run again in 2012; and are trying to destroy the progressive wing of the Dem. party. The cab drivers can quote the Tuzla/liar facts, as can the waiters, waitresses and busboys. They think she carpetbagged into New York for a stepping stone to running for president, and they do NOT intend to re-elect her to the Senate.

Seen the Boston Globe editorial which quotes a Saudia Arabian newspaper as describing HRC as an ignorant dolt for her inflamatory comments about obliterating Iran?"



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Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
75. Well then
She should concede to Obama and get over her and Bill's ego. Because Obama would be a fool to take her on as VP. She doesn't deserve to be a VP let alone a Senator.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
95. You're right. She lies MORE than even lieberman does!
NT!

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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #95
105. I will serve a full term. I will not run for President in 2008
- Barack Obama
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cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
12. I could not agree with you more
and have not stopped saying it despite repeated strong rejection of the idea. Those that are against the idea seem to be confined to the web world.
Thank you.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #12
46. To them it's a game.
My team, rah rah rah.
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cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #46
59. I agree.
A lot of cheerleaders. I hope they become foot soldiers once the primary is over.

Welcome to DU! :hi:
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Secret_Society Donating Member (466 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
13. Thanks!
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
16. I'd rather not have Hillary in any P or VP role - she's shown she can't properly handle that..
...BUT - given her Republican campaign tactics -- IF she was going to be on any ticket with anyone, it ought to be McSame, not Obama. She has more in common with McSame.
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datopbanana Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
17. not. gunna. happen.
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digidigido Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
21. Not a good idea, though I loved your previous post
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 02:43 AM by digidigido
I think if the nominee is Obama, he needs a VP that the right would be more afraid of then him, otherwise I fear he'd be killed. Kucinich or Feingold, or someone who voted against authorizing the use of force
and someone very anti military industrial complex and progressive economically
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Who do they fear more than Hillary? They despise her.
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digidigido Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #25
56. With All Due Respect..... You Can't Be Serious
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #25
64. they don't FEAR Hillary - they DESPISE her.
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 11:57 AM by peacebird
Hillary is a guarenteed loser for the Dems... The Repubs will vote for her in a primary because they want to run against her. They will turn out in droves to support McSame (even if they don't particularily WANT him) just to be sure that HRC is NOT the President.

AND she is a disaster for progressives even if she could win the GE.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
22. k*r A question.
Very nice analysis. I don't agree but so what, it's interesting. If I don't like it I can always pursue my pet project of getting Northern Virginia, DC, and the Maryland suburbs to become an international free state.

Now for my question: Isn't is just possible that many will look at the unity ticket as a sign of profound cynicism by Clinton and weakness by Obama. All of a sudden Obama takes her as his #2. "What's that about?"

Here's one reason Obama won't need to take her. The Democratic primary is like an old fashioned deep south primary. Winner takes all. McCain is stuck with federal funds and he may lose some of those That's profound. In addition, his flaws are already showing and he's just a few steps away from what will be the firs of many unsettling melt downs. That means Obama takes it in a walk. Why does he need Clinton (either of them).
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #22
28. The press is going to transform McCain and Obama in ways you can not imagine but I can
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 05:35 AM by McCamy Taylor
because I write fiction and I know what skillful Republican pr and a compliant press can do.

Obama is a fresh canvas. That means that the press can write whatever they want on him. And McCain has that bullshit maverick, hero, straight shooter, honest Joe story that the press will sell.

In that mix, having Bill Clinton campaigning that he and Hillary have Obama's back and that they personally guarantee that the good times are gonna roll again just like they did in the 1990's means that voters can have their hope and their change without having to take a chance. Obama is going to get TWO VPs for the price of one. He can not beat a deal like that. Bill Clinton is going to tear through the Bush years like a chainsaw through tissue paper. You think he was rough on fellow Dems, wait until he start campaigning against Republicans.

And while Bill and Hillary are talking tough, Obama can be Mr. Optimism to rival McCain's Mr Nice Guy. They can nice each other to death.

If I were doing pr for this Unity ticket I would frame it "Bill and Hillary nurture the future of the Democratic Party." Portray Obama as the New JFK. Ted Kennedy's early endorsement would fit right in to this. Have the Clintons come out and exclaim that they have just been wowed by the Obama campaign and message. Hillary was initially afraid that Obama was not a dedicated fighter, but as the primary has progressed, she has been impressed by his resolve and the way that he has handled himself under fire and the way that he brings people together, and she believes that if they work together they can bring America back to the prosperity it was beginning to recover in the 1990s before the Bush machine came in and stole the election from Al Gore. America has the attention span of a fruit fly and Democrats want us to all get along, so it will take about two weeks for them to convince everyone that the Clintons and the Obamas are getting along just fine. And hell, if Bill could befriend Poppy his mortal enemy and a mass murdering war criminal and persuade him to do charitable works, I do not see why he can not make friends with nice people like the Obamas.

When the press does dirty tricks on Obama, I think it will be particularly effective if Hillary calls them out.This will let him stay above the fray, and will let her look maternal.

Do not dismiss the sex appeal factor either. Clinton-Gore made a very attractive team. Having Obama and Bill Clinton (because he is part of the package) is going to exude executive testosterone that will just overwhelm anything the GOP has to offer. This seems superficial, but we are talking modern American politics.
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susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #28
37. I think it will be particularly effective if Hillary calls them out.This will let him stay above the
Amen!

And ain't that the truth!!

I have been saying this for months... and I think we are close to an agreement.....

McCain is toast!

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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
82. "...you can not imagine but I can"
OMG - aren't we superior, and maybe a touch elitist!
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #28
108. OK,, that makes sense but ...
"If I were doing pr for this Unity ticket I would frame it "Bill and Hillary nurture the future of the Democratic Party." That's how to sell it.

Of course the skillful pr would be total bull shit. The pr people are at the bidding of their corporate masters so any wide spread favorable press and HRC on the ticket indicates the capitulation of Obama from "unknown quantity" (with the potential of working for the people) to made man of The Money/Property Party. That's why I hope he picks a running mate who actually adds value to the office if achieved rather than two hangers on who are fronting for the very people who have destroyed the country and large parts of the planet. Should be interesting.
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 04:02 AM
Response to Original message
23. Sorry, a horrible idea. They are like oil and water.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. You must not remember JFK and LBJ. Look them up.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. And you also remember what happened to JFK too...
With the politics of today, that might even be MORE likely to happen with her second on the ticket!

NO THANKS!
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #26
33. LBJ was there to deliver Texas to Kennedy.... Obama wins NY with OR without Hillary....
..she brings NOTHING to the ticket.
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susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. LOL.
Nothing?

Except half the electorate???

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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #38
102. Sorry...no.... 3/4 of Hillary supporters won't vote for McCain.....
....

and besides...it's only half of the Democratic electorate, not half of the entire electorate.



In the end.... 80-90% of Hillary supporters will vote for President Obama..... including likely you.
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susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #102
110. Did I say 3/4ths?
No. I didn't. And I don't know where you got that.

But half of the dem electorate is currently in Hillary's camp.... and that should be a serious consideration. Especially because Mr. McCain is on the trail wooing them to his side.

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #33
86. Ohio, Florida. Pennsylvania. 68 delegates that Gallup says McCain can poach but Hillary locks up
for the Democrats. That is the math I am talking about. 68 big all important blue collar delegate votes. They are the votes that will make the difference this year. Treasure them.
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SaveAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #26
50. Best reason of this thread to not have a 'unity' ticket
Besides, unity might have happened before Clinton and gang started slinging garbage and lies. "I've treated Democrats like no Democrat ever should have, can I be the vice prez?"
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #26
96. Was LBJ a documented compulsive liar who endorsed the republican nominee over the Dem like clinton?
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 10:05 PM by Zhade
NT!

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 05:32 AM
Response to Original message
29. .Kind of an empty threat. Sorry, your posting here will have
no influence on whether there is or is not a unity ticket. A few other points: We don't know that America won't vote for a woman or is any more ready for an AA president than a female president. And saying you proved something, doesn't make it so.

There will or will not be a unity ticket. If it happens, I think it could work. I also think that either Hillary or Obama could win without it.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #29
88. First "unity thread" I have seen at DU yet with double digit recs.
Usually I only get like 6 or 7. I will keep promoting the idea. You keep dismissing it.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #88
111. you get recs because most people don't read your entire
pedantic chunks of prose. They're impressed by the sheer volume of words.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 05:53 AM
Response to Original message
30. A "unity" ticket helps Hillary in the general if she wins the nom.
But it wouldn't help Obama if he's the nominee. He'd be a lot better off with a guy like Jim Webb; someone with serious military cred who's attractive to moderates and indies. That's obvious, no?
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Z.e.r.o Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #30
41. good point but i would think more like Wesley Clark
if Jim Webb gave up his seat it might go republican(won by less than .5%). also Clark is probably about as close to a "unity ticket" as your going to get with Obama as the nominee.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Unofrtunately, Clark is the least charismatic person in U.S. public life
at the moment. But I guess that's not necessarily a disqualifier for the VP slot; no candidate wants to be upstaged by his running-mate. Which is why, frankly, I think the whole unity thing is a non-starter.
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susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
34. Yes indeedy....
the unity ticket is our only hope for winning in the Fall. I have been saying this for months. But, after hearing John McCain go after Hillary's people in Ohio.... I know it FOR SURE!

Mr. McCain was in Youngstown praising NAFTA last week. No joke.... he is praising the Clinton years of the 90s! We heard it loud and clear! And we are fully aware, that he is aware..... of how many lunch bucket Dems will go his way in November if Obama is the nominee.


This is the strangest damned campaign I have seen. Obama praises Reagan and McCain praises Clinton.... WTF?
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:10 AM
Response to Original message
35. I don't want hillary hillary a heartbeat away from the presidency.
Hillary should never be in a position of power. She can't be trusted. She is ethically and morally bankrupt.
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Dammit Ann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:18 AM
Response to Original message
39. blue college?
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 07:09 AM by dammitann
oh, if such a thing only existed...

"She also appeals to lower income, blue college Democrats with a high school education."
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TheDonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:20 AM
Response to Original message
40. I wouldn't want to see Hillary anywhere near Obama's ticket
she should be jettisoned from the party.
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existentialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
43. Why it is extremely unlikely
"Can a bull elk in rut pass through the eye of a camel?"

Hunter S. Thompson in Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72 on why a McGovern/Kennedy ticket would never come to pass
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
44. With Hillary negatives it isn't something I think anyone should MAKE Obama do!
It is a ticket for defeat in my mind and even if they won it would be a VERY contentious time with Bill always sticking his buddies into the mix! He is one of the BIGGEST lobbyist there is around! When he went out for the Dubai ports deal I knew he could be bought by anyone! I don't like it and it sounds too much like Kennedy/Johnson ticket and we know what happened there!

There are many more qualified and trustworthy people out there that fit with Obama much better.

:nopity:
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
47. Go ahead and wear out a few keyboards
But it's never going to happen. She's a rank amateur and burned her bridges but good.
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beezlebum Donating Member (927 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
48. then i vow to
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 09:43 AM by beezlebum
hide your (repetitive) (baffling bullshit) (non sequitur) threads.

so if you can't beat 'em, join 'em...except when they're telling you they don't want you on their team anymore since you played for the other team, and so poorly and nastily.

just as staying in the non-race does not make hillary a fighter, nor an underdog, but rather a corrupt and reckless sore loser throwing tantrums, repeatedly insisting on a largely rejected scenario (which would be, personally, a nightmare) does not make you the bastion of support, influence, nor logic. comes across as desperation at best.

and i would not be so steadfast in my opposition to such a scenario, though i never approved of it necessarily, if it hadn't been for her recent obliteration "prediction and speculation."
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Pisces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
49. She is too dangerous to have in the VP spot.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #49
79. With her second... Obama would have worse security situation than JFK!
We need someone that is more progressive, etc. than Obama in the second slot to serve as insurance much like Cheney has for Bush...

If you had Richardson in second spot, in addition to him attracting the hispanic vote, you'd take away any white racist motivation to go after Obama at the top of the ticket.
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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
51. not after Sniper-gate. She's on record as being a LIAR extroadinaire.
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book_worm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
52. will you keep up the posts even when President Obama and VP Richardson take office in January?
:)

That's my dream ticket.
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:03 AM
Original message
I actually did bet
my boss a bottle of scotch that there won't be an Obama-Clinton ticket, but I hope I lose the bet (and that he gives me a good raise so I can afford to get him a good single-malt).

Keep pushinf for unity.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
53. No. No. No.
Best wishes to Hillary Clinton in the Senate. I want her nowhere near the White House. It isn't going to happen; she would accept Barack as her VP (knowing he would be the weakest VP in the last 100 years), but he can't stand her. Period.

And I agree.

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here_is_to_hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
54. Ooooh! My candidate lost! Can my candidate join yours?
No.
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JBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #54
61. Even though he's not ready to be President. And is unelectable. And doesn't love America.
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. your title has a missing "s"...
although SHE is ready to be a bush-league prez, haven't we had enuf of that?
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
55. I will vote for no ticket that includes Hillary Clinton
I've never voted for a republican, and I'm not going to start now. You can't hijack your way onto a ticket.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #55
107. So this proves it. You are a Hillary hater, not an Obama supporter
because if you were actually an Obama supporter, you would vote for Obama.
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newmajority Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
57. The only way to save the Democratic party, and indeed, this very country
Is to remove the DLC now. They have been an active part of the destruction of this country for the last 28 years.

"Hillary offers hope to the economically disadvantaged"?? Uh, no, the policies advocated by Hillary, her husband, and their friends is what made a lot of those people economically disadvantaged to begin with (NAFTA, outsourcing, welfare "reform", etc.)
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Buddyblazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
58. And I vow....
to walk up and down Main Street slapping everyone I see....

until they legalize marijuana.
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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
60. Hillary should not be on Obama ticket....
We need someone who can add to the ticket not take from the ticket. Richardson would be great, he can add New Mexico and bring in additional Southwestern states. If Hillary is so good for the America then she would have voted that way in the Senate. Keep her there and we will see what she can do with a Democrat as the president. Free traders should be out of the leadership roles in this government.
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Shoelace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #60
63. Richardson is great but Obama needs Hillary to win in November
I love Richardson, in fact, I am one of those democrats who love us all just because we care for the PEOPLE.

Fact is, Clinton carries white voters 54% to Obama's 39%.
Clinton carries Latino voters 58% to 39% for Obama.
Clinton carries Asian voters 71% to 25%.
http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/exit-polls/race-et...

Do the math, we may not like what we see but the way it sits now, he can't win against McSame without her base of support.

Richardson might add the Latino base but we have to carefully consider these things if we all want a big win (one that can't be played with) in November.

Besides that, if Obama is anything like his supporters here on DU, he's not exactly a uniter from what I've observed.
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #63
113. HRC on the ticket guarantees an Obama loss - clearing the way for her in 2012
and I consider this whole "joint ticket" subject moot, because:
(1) Obama is far too intelligent to ever agree to it;
(2) HRC and Bill have pissed off far too many Dem leaders so there will be no pressure on Obama to go along with this;
(3) all practical Dem candidates at the congressional, state and local govt. level do not want HRC on the ticket because antagonism to her will bring out straight party ticket voters for the GOP;
(4) and the only reason the OP keeps posting this crap is to provoke responses opposing HRC as vp, which will further alienate HRC's supporters and lock in the HRC supporters into NOT supporting Obama, again with the goal of weakening Obama in the GE, so that HRC will get a shot at McCain in 2012.

By the way, check out the Boston Globe editorial re HRC's inflamatory and irresponsible remarks re "obliterating" Iran for the negative, worldwide response to her remarks, and particularly a Saudi Arabian paper calling her an ignorant dolt.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #60
90. Latinos (and Catholics) like Hillary. Arizona is lost with McCain anyway.
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 09:14 PM by McCamy Taylor
Calfornia will go Dem. Texas will go GOP. Colorado and Nevada are the only "in play" states. Environmental issues are going to make Colorado go Dem. Nevada is tough. Obama is a pro-nuke guy just like McCain. That is why Hillary won. They think that Obama will let his pals dump more waste. I do not know if Hillary can undo the "nukes are green" effect, but she can shore up the labor and Latino vote and tilt Nevada more towards the Dems.

With McCain for the GOP, I would not use Richardson for VP. He just does not change the math in the SW enough and Richardson is not a pit bull. If it is Richardson vs. Romney in debates, Romney is going to score a bunch of one liners off him and make him look weak. Clinton will make Romney look superficial.

Edwards would make a good VP for Obama. He might take parts of the South with him and get Hillary's blue collar base. However, Edwards would have to change his mind about being VP. I would like an Obama/Edwards ticket.

I do not like Obama/Webb because Webb has not been vetted. They will swiftboat him. Webb needs to stay in the Senate, build up a rep so that he can not be swiftboated and run for national office later. And as for Clarke, he does not campaign that well.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
62. The only thing worse than one of them is both of them together.
I vow to keep opposing both until the convention is over.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
66. IGNORE POSTER is our friend...
...click.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
67. Vow it as much as you like, girl. Don't mean you're a goin' a git it.
Edwards is the VP Obama needs - if he can be persuaded.

If he were to choose Hillary, he would recklessly incense too many Americans before he even started his tenure. She has given "professional" politicians a worse name than ever. And most people would have thought that impossible. The "bon mot", "Trust me. I'm a politician" would be take to a whole new level of irony.
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KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
68. You are now on my Ignore list. THE ONLY ONE I HAVE ON IT! BYE!!
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
69. Hahahaha! Ya - Obama couldn't possibly have anything to offer white folks...
Gotta love DUers.
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futureliveshere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
70. All the best.. though I personally would HATE this, I can see why it would be GREAT for the party.
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Bensthename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
71. Kudos for supporting them both in these "tough" and "bitter" times.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
72. If only.
The real world would love it. But all you have to do is read half the replies here to find that most of the blogosphere's Obama supporters have eaten the Rovian fruit. Even though any sane analysis shows that there isn't a hair's breadth of difference between these two moderate Democrats, they "cling" to the stories that MSM has prepared for them. They buy every nasty Hillary story like picking up the tabloids at the grocery check out. As long as so many are so gullible and easily led, we don't have a chance in November.
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susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #72
76. Jakes Progress you are right!
And, lucky for us... the real world is the one that votes. So the real world is the one the DNC will need to consider. Not D.U. or any of the other Obama happy kool-aid drinking bloggers.

The only hope for this party in November is a unity ticket. I believe that with all my heart. And.... if anyone here can't vote for two Democrats who have the most votes in a primary season EVER... then they are not real Democrats and don't need to be sticking their noses into our party's business.

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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
73. and I vow to throw up every time someone posts this nonsense
people are voting AGAINST Hillary as much as FOR Obama.

her name on the ticket would drive GOP turnout.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #73
89. That's what they tell you over at MSM
The republican lites who are ashamed of themselves for voting for the chimp and are seeking absolution by siding with Obama will be quickly herded back into the GOP fold once the media machine gets really going. We only have a taste of it now.


As far as "people" voting against Hillary, that is mostly just here in blog land. The real life Obama supporters I meet back him because they like his message and think he would do a good job. They aren't filled with hate and bloated with MSM feedings. I was at the table at our Texas precinct caucus where we were counting the votes. As the evening wore on and the vote kept at a 50/50 split the group around the counting table seemed happy with this. We all voiced the concept that we would be happy with either candidate and that the Democratic party was lucky indeed. Except for one surly member who couldn't contain herself. She puffed up and hissed "Not me. I just hate that Hillary." She got a few seconds of silence and then the whole group turned away from her and back to what we were doing. Later at the end of the caucus, after we had broken into the two groups of county delegates, and I was selected as the Hillary chair, three of the members of the Obama delegates, including the chair, made a point of apologizing to me and our group for the woman's nasty behavior.
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RTBerry Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
77. Re: only six people: make that seven, at least.
I noticed. I just don't always respond. I suspect there a large number of us who remain silent observers, for the most part.

But please know that I have come to increasingly rely on you as a beacon of sanity in these murky, befouled waters at DU. So keep up the good work, even though the majority of folk here seem for the moment to be too enamored of their divisive narrative to notice how thoroughly they're being used.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #77
91. The Internet makes CREEP 1972 a cakewalk, RNC moles are all over this board
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 09:41 PM by McCamy Taylor
and in a bunch of other internet message boards seeking to spread lies and divide and conquer propaganda. For instance, when I was researching the story behind the "Race Memo" I would come up with obvious RNC oppo posts in places where you would never expect to find them.

Remember how in the days of protest the person trying to encourage the group to break the law was always the undercover cop? Well here, the person trying to encourage the group to hate another Dem is always the undercover Republican. How do I know? Because a sensible Democrat remembers 1960, 1968, 1972 and knows that any Democrat might be the ideal running mate who will pull your candidate's butt from the fire. So, only the undercover Republican wants to make the feud so bad that another Dem will make like Humphrey in 1972 telling McGovern when he came figuratively begging one hands and knees "You have nothing to offer me. I won't be your running mate."

By this point, people may not remember who first got them to hate on a fellow Democrat. After a while, everyone starts doing it, and the moles sort of creep away. However, if they look back, they might be able to figure out the posters who first started the fires.

One way that you can tell their intention is watch to see where they congregate (like flies). For instance, they are all over unity threads, usually. They hate the idea of unity. Last fall I noticed that the Freeper plants would attack any thread that was pro-immigrant rights. People seemed to be afraid to talk about immigration here and at Kos. They thought it was the GOP's winning issue for 2008---and the Freepers were going to make sure it stayed that way. That was why I started doing a bunch of posts about immigrant rights, about how the GOP attacks on Latinos were just like the KKK movement in the 20s and like the rise of fascism and how they used the language of racism and stuff like that. After a while, people were not afraid to talk about immigrants rights anymore, and the responses from real Democrats outnumbered the Freepers' replies.

Whatever the Freepers have been ordered to attack is obviously something that the RNC fears.

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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #91
97. Yep, and you lie for clinton all day long.
You shouldn't give away trade secrets so easily.

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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
78. His life would not be worth a plug nickel
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 06:28 PM by kenny blankenship
I'm guessing he has a stronger sense of self-preservation than to do something that risky.
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
80. Lucky for all of us you can only post 3 threads a day.
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 06:38 PM by yourguide
It's not going to happen.


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MessiahRp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
81. It must be fun to be delusional
Hillary will draw every Republican, even those disenfranchised by McCain, out to the polls... even if she's only up for VP. Plus I don't want another corporate bendover one nutcase's bullet away from bringing us back to Bush policies.

May the Democratic Party finally get a clue and end this horrific saga now. She is toxic to our ticket, toxic to our party and toxic to our country, just like the whole Bushco, Neo-con, DLC lot of corporate shills that sit in power currently.

Rp
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Kitsune Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
83. We do not need the albatross of Hillary around Obama's neck.
The woman has absurdly high negatives and there are a lot of /democrats/ who won't vote for a ticket with her on it, to say nothing in independents who have spent the last 15 years bombarded with Hillary memes from the right. An Obama/Hillary ticket would wreck any hope we have left of a win in November just as surely as a ticket with Hillary at the top would.

Whether or not you believe it's deserved (and after the way she's been campaigning I'm starting to think it is), there are a lot of people who out and out loathe Hillary Clinton.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
84. that will never happen
the best she can do is go back to being a jr senator from new york and help this country turn itself around.
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HopeforChange Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
92. I for one will campaign against a joint ticket.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
93. If Huckabee is going to keep speaking for McCain, Dems are in trouble
I have noticed lately that Huckabee has become McCain's new BFFL. They are inseparable. And now Huckabee is commenting in things for McCain. Like this.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/25/huckabe... /

If the GOP plans to have the two of them travel around with Huckabee delivering the feel good messages that McCain's neurological impairment will not allow him to make, the Dems are in for a tough battle, because Huckabee is one hell of a speaker.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
94. Wow, so you're finally accepting her loss? Good for you!
Now, stop lying about Obama and your rehabilitation will be well on its way.

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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
98. I Vow to Keep Hiding Obama/Clinton Unity Threads Until Obama Chooses Someone Else
:hippie:
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
99. I usually don't agree with you, but it may be the fix.
I'm tired. We don't need to keep killing ourselves.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
100. I just realized that Clinton is moving to the left and Obama is moving to the center.
Someone posted a thread because Clinton was comparing the plight of the American working class to the plight of those killed in the Holocaust, and the usual Obama supporters were laughing at her. But the thing is, from a Marxist point of view, she is absolutely correct. Modern fascism has deep ties to corporate fascism. The two are linked. After WWII, the German companies got a hand slap and the US companies that collaborated had their crimes covered up, but it is all the same thing----consolidation of power in the hands of the few. Under Bush, we have seen policies which create a phantom menace---now it is the Muslim Terrorist--we have seen wealth disparity celebrated as the way to economic prosperity since (under the Bush model) as long as David Rockefeller has capital we are supposed to believe that he will be able to invest it somewhere, and that is all that it takes to have a sound economy. The poor are stigmatized for their poverty the same way that the physically and mentally handicapped were stigmatized for their disabilities under the Germans. At DU lately, people have been mocking, scorning even hating poor people, posting things like "they deserve what they get if they dont"...

So, yeah, Clinton is exactly right. Modern America under the Bushes treats poor people the way that other groups have been treated when they have been scapegoated. The way we once treated Native Americans.

Liberation theologists have a whole different take on things. They see the poor as the most important people. Maybe we should be voting for Rev. Wright for president.

But anyway, I think I can see why I did not much care for Clinton last year, but her recent positions seem more "Democratic" to me, while Obama seems less attractive as a candidate. She is definitely working the base and doing a good job of it, while Obama is straying too far to the center for someone who still needs to lock up the nomination. It is like a role reversal from 2007.
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gal Donating Member (534 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
101. Uhhmmmm NO!
It would also be disrespectful to the people that are getting into this for change.
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Lady-Damai Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
103. HELL NO!!!!!!!!
Obama has hard time telling Clinton to stop lying. That witch will pull a Lyndon Johnson.







Scary similar pictures.
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trevjr Donating Member (38 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
104. NO WAY
Why would Obama put someone on his ticket with a 54% negative rating?
Why would Obama select someone that inspires hate from the right?
Why would Obama select someone that the right wants to run against?

Hillary offers hope to the economically disadvantaged and elderly. Huh?
Obama doesn't?
This is a lot of writing for nothing. Hillary has shown who she really is and Obama
wants nothing to do with her. He will act nice, but Hillary has crossed the line too
many times. Don't you get that?
Obviously not if you keep pushing this drivel.
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aaroh Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
106. I vow to put you on my Ignore List
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 05:48 AM
Response to Original message
109. K & R. Too late to recommend. n/t
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Kjaereste Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
114. Thumbs down.
I used to respect and admire Hillary, but with what she is doing to the party, trying to change rules in mid-stream, sliming Obama while praising McCain, mis-managing her finances due to overconfidence, placing her faith in underachieving managers (heckuva job, Patti Solis Doyle, er... Maggie Williams, er... Mark Penn, er...), never admitting a mistake on the Iraq war resolution, taking cash from every special interest, and pretty much screwing the party for her own personal ambition, I wouldn't care to see her anywhere near the presidential ticket. I'm having a hard enough time seeing much daylight between her positions and McCain's.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
115. I wish you won't. I don't want to see Hillary anywhere but back in the Senate. n/t
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cd3dem Donating Member (927 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
116. Clinton/Obama
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
117. I don't want it to happen, but I appreciate that you are open to it. Thanks. n/t
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