HILLARY ONLY GOT ONE MORE DELEGATE THEN OBAMA IN PA. ACCORDING TO NY TIMES

[HopeforChange]

http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/results/states/PA.html

:bounce: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[thunder rising]

1. same with CNN???

http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/results/states/PA.html

[Yael]

2. Thats only 127

103 are pledged to the districts.

55 are PLEO and At Large delegates and divided up by the state total.

Total of 158 to be had.

[ORDem]

52. Yes, the OP was being a little over exuberant. In any case, her delegate

pickup is minimal and hardly puts a dent in Obama's lead. He'll have the majority of PDs by mid-May.

:dem:

[bigwillq]

What a victory for Clinton!

:sarcasm:





:bounce:

[papau]

26. A standard result caused by the extra delegates awarded black areas

[Orangepeel]

36. extra delegates awarded to areas where Democratic candidates perform very well

areas that vote consistently and heavily for Democratic candidates are rewarded with more delegates, according to the system that's been in place for years. Those areas often have high proportions of African Americans living in them because African Americans have consistently and heavily voted for Democratic candidates.

[mod mom]

45. I wonder if Clinton small donors can ask for their $ back like her big donors did to the DNC.

(which btw I didn't know one could do)

[bigbrother05]

67. You mean Obama won big in the Dem party strongholds

Clinton won where the Reps have their strength.

Seems like I've heard someone use similar results to bolster their case for the nomination.

[Orangepeel]

87. What I mean, is that ascribing a racial explanation is dumb

not to mention offensive.

But since you bring it up, Obama does better in most areas, having won more states and more delegates (and also more votes).

[JoFerret]

91. In a racially polarized way - it seems the answer is yes to your question.

.

[JoFerret]

90. Interesting

makes sense. Except of course in a racially polarized race where it then become inherently discriminatory.

[madrchsod]

42. what?

[tammywammy]

47. What? Please explain what you mean.

[SoCalDem]

53. I'm sure that many people who live there would gladly

give up a few of those "extra" delegates & trade places with some of those "poor exurb/suburban folks" who got shorted on delegates because they are not crammed into nasty apartments in crime-ridden areas..

this is so redstate-bluestate..

Where people are and where those people show up faithfully, there are extra delegates to be had.. it's just that simple

[MeDeMax]

59. priceless racecar picture -- n/t

[SoCalDem]

61. Thanks.. I made it today..some will get it..some think a miracle

will still happen for the 494 car ..making up 6 laps in 10 ft's a stretch though..:rofl:

[Kittycat]

60. "black areas" there you go again, race baiting. They're Heavily Democratic Areas

that consistently turn out the vote.

[Umbram]

62. Cute little racist codespeak. (nt)

[JoFerret]

92. I don't see it that way.

And please be careful throwing the word "racist" around. We are all such racists and live in such a racially charged society that it is all too easy to take a simplistic view and make accusations that are both ill-founded and terribly destructive. I am seeing more and more of this self-rending within the party.

[Mooney]

63. God damn affirmative action!!!!

[msallied]

81. Why in the hell haven't you been deleted yet?

I see nothing but racist garbage from you.

[dionysus]

88. you're late to your meeting;

[bigwillq]

3. dupe

:bounce:

[DearAbby]

4. That is the HUGE WIN for Clinton?

:rofl:

[quantass]

11. .

[Mme. Defarge]

22. Not only is it huge, it's

HUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Occam Bandage]

5. Well, that totally justifies CNN's "CLINTON'S BIG WIN" spam yesterday.

[cliffordu]

6. The 10 million (???) goes to pay the bills for that....The most expensive

delegate in the world!!!!!


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[PBS Poll-435]

7. Math seems more like an Obama Fanclub problem...

There are 158 pledged delegates awarded from the 4/22 primary...

63 + 64 DOES NOT EQUAL 158.

:bounce::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause:

[TheDoorbellRang]

32. It will more likely be 9 or 10 delegates more for Clinton

Once the votes are confirmed. TheGreenPapers has it at 84-74 at this point.

[PBS Poll-435]

50. Thanks for the common sense confirmation

:hi:

[TheDoorbellRang]

55. You're welcome.

And now I have to correct myself and say it's at a ten delegate spread right now, but if it shifts when all the provisional votes are tallied and the vote is confirmed, it could change to a different even-numbered spread like 8 or 12. (9 wouldn't be possible with 158 in play.):blush: That's what happened in Ohio. It went from 75-66 to 74-67 after the provisionals were counted and the votes confirmed.

[PBS Poll-435]

8. And 2 recs so far. WOW

[PBS Poll-435]

16. 6 recs now.

I guess there is one born every minute.

[PBS Poll-435]

18. Seven?

[RiverStone]

30. eight

If this is true - it is well worth reporting.

Thanks :hi:

[PBS Poll-435]

49. It isn't obviously.

63+64 doesn't equal 158.

Even with the new math.

[PBS Poll-435]

66. 15 Recs. For an illogical conclusion

For shame.

[PBS Poll-435]

68. And one more...

Wow

[PBS Poll-435]

80. Now it is 17.

Keep em coming!

[PBS Poll-435]

82. Up to 18!

[UALRBSofL]

9. She gets 10% more of the vote and only gets 1 more delegate???

That's messed up. :mad:

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JackORoses]

12. well how many did she get, Amurkan?

10?

ahahahahahaa!
Obama got more than that in Idaho.

[PBS Poll-435]

15. Amurkan?

What the hell is that?

And she got at least 1000% of what the OP said.

[JackORoses]

23. Obama's current delegate lead is >13000% more than Hillary gained in PA

How do you expect her to make that up with only 9 states left?

[PBS Poll-435]

51. Just what exactly does that have to do with the OP?

Nada.

Nice try though...

You can add, right?

63+64 = 158 only in Obamafanland.

[PBS Poll-435]

58. And you still haven't explained your slur.

Amurkan?

Waiting...

[JVS]

33. that's 9.2%

[MindMatter]

38. It is a matter of understanding the rules

The Democrats chose to use a very democratic method of assigning delegates. If you do it like a Republican, if a candidate wins by one vote, they ALL the delegates from that state, which disenfranchises the 49.9999% that have no voice in convention process.

The Democratic method is not only better and more fair, it is the law. I know Bill and Hillary wish this were the Republican Party, but it isn't. We stand for democratic representation here.

And the Party rules take it one step farther, apportioning delegates based on the turnout FROM THE PRIOR ELECTION. That is a very wise provision. Not only does it reward the groups that support the Party in good times and bad, it also is a bit of a firewall against the kind of games that Clinton and Limbaugh were playing, trying to get Republicans to cross over for Hillary now, and of course go back and vote for McCain in November.

Obama didn't make up the rules. He simply played by the rules and won by the rules.

[cui bono]

39. Interesting... thanks for the info. n/t

[Raine]

13. WOW!

:wow: :rofl: :woohoo:

[Frank Booth]

14. This post is wrong.

The NYT website is missing 31 delegates. Hillary will probably pick up 10 or 12.

Hillary supporters are supposed to be the ones who can't do math, remember?

[Upton]

17. No, it will probably be 84-74

check this out:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/22/11912/6533/642/500733

[LSparkle]

19. Hilarious!

[Tom Rinaldo]

20. Has the thought occured to you that celebrating something like this

completely undercuts the Obama camp contention that a pledged delegate lead automatically represents "the expressed will of the people"?

The logical disconnect is breath taking.

If Obama ends up losing the PA delegate count by only a couple of delegates after millions of PA Democrats voted and gave Clinton a greater victory margin than Obama had in Iowa, it will certainly be legitimate (assuming the rules were followed as written). But it trashs the argument that simply obtaining a lead in pledged delegates bestows the populist mantle of "the popular will" on the candidate who has it. It just becomes grist for the nominating machinery, right up there with the role of Super Delegates, until someone emerges with an overall majority of all delegates.

If Obama supporters truly felt otherwise, they would be "upset over" rather than "celebrating" undemocratic results like this. Again, the rules are clear. Obama certainly gets whatever delegates he won using the system in place. But the system in place has Super Delegates also, and they are not honor or morally bound to follow the lead of supporting whoever has the most pledged delegates.

[Frank Booth]

24. No. Because the OP is celebrating over his/her own misreading of the NYT website.

Click the link and try to figure it out.

[Tom Rinaldo]

27. I meant the disconnect between being gleeful over apparently skewed results

coupled with pious proclamations that the will of the people must be respected if Obama is ahead in pledged delegates. I was commenting on the attitude.

[TheDoorbellRang]

69. There have been skewed results in many of the primary contests to date

The happy illusion that they're always awarded proportionate to the popular vote is just that -- an illusion. I first noticed the "skewed" results with the Alabama delegate apportionment. The vote there was 56-42% in Obama's favor, yet the delegates were apportioned 27-25 -- results even more egregious than a two point difference in PA would be, I think. Don't you?

I had a thread on these disparities in 13 primary races a while ago.

[Milo_Bloom]

25. Its a PRIMARY, it isn't about "will of the people"

It is about will of the party.

[Tom Rinaldo]

29. Yep. And a majority of all the certified delegates determins our nominee, as per Party rules n/t

[Milo_Bloom]

71. Yes, they do... and we already know they will go with whoever

gets the most pledged delegates. Even the current Clinton SD's have said as much.

[PBS Poll-435]

70. So thank GOD Hillary has the backing of more SDs!

You know...the party!

[Alii]

76. Count the days...

that too will soon disappear.

Get a calculator...IT IS OVER...Obama IS the Democratic Party's candidate.

As soon as that is realized it will become less "bitter."

[PBS Poll-435]

77. I am not bitter.

I am gonna go with the recommendation of the most visible members of Speaker Pelosi's 30Somthing Working Group.

They can see the writing on the wall.

[TheDoorbellRang]

28. The OP is mistaken, sadly. It's more likely a ten point spread when all is tabulated

.

[woolldog]

65. I didn't hear you complaining about Alabama

where Clinton ended up with more delegates than Obama even though Obama overwhelmingly won the popular vote.

Why do Clinton supporters constantly whine about the rules? It's sickening. Did you not know the rules going in?

Get over it, buddy.

[Alii]

78. Haven't you learned yet?

Rules are only rules when Hillary and her misguided sheep say they are the rules.

Hillary and her camp have magical pencils and calculators. But, they won't be able to pull the rabbit out of the hat in this show. A David Copperfield they're not.

And please, a double digit win it was not. Why couldn't she, rather than Barack Obama, close the deal? Up 20 plus and lose all that advantage. Just prolonging the agony...there will be no ecstasy.

Enjoy the confetti, it won't be seen in the convention...at least by Hillary. Better save some as a souvenir.

[Zodiak]

21. I have learned not to trust too many threads

posted in all-caps. This apparently is one of them.

[JVS]

31. HA HA! Her votes were from areas that are not loyally democratic, thus geting less representation!

heheheh!

[PBS Poll-435]

56. Oh dear. Not you too!

:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

63+64 really must = 158.

:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

[JBoy]

34. Holy shit. That's all I can say.

[PBS Poll-435]

57. And you would be right.

Complete and utter Holy shit.

(Because it isn't true!)

[HopeforChange]

35. Correction -It was fun while it lasted. Looks like CNN has it up to 10 .. Still not a big win though

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#PA

[dbmk]

37. This was a sad/revealing post.

.. for the ones of us that has seen our posts on the facts in that primary be flushed away by threads bashing right and left on this and that -ism. :)

The gain for Hillary will be 10 delegates with an outside chance of it being 8 or 12. CD #7 can possibly, but not very likely, still flip Obamas way and CD #11 possibly, but not very likely, Hillarys way.

[DemVet]

40. Obama IS stealing the Nomination.

Obama people claiming Hillary is trying to steal the Nomination need to take a fresh look.

[wileedog]

41. You're funny.

[stevietheman]

43. Well, we know you're certifiable. n/t

n/t

[madrchsod]

44. you have some proof?

you must have something that no one else knows about this stealing votes from the states

so when will you make this evidence public?

[jettison]

46. hahahahaha

As if Obama made the rules. You're hilarious. Take a critical thinking class. It will do you a world of good. If by "stealing" the election, however, you mean that he has already won the election fair and square then I completely agree with your point.

[Umbram]

64. Please keep the paint chips away from your mouth. (nt)

[AtomicKitten]

48. Damn, he really knows how to win. Spectacular!!!

[PBS Poll-435]

54. Pick up a book. The Cat in the Hat is an excellent first choice.

Then you can explain how 63+64 = 158.

[AtomicKitten]

72. Obama has been brilliant in squeezing out the maximum number of delegates out of states.

Perhaps you disagree? I have no clue where your snark came from, so I'll just let it slide.

[PBS Poll-435]

73. Because 63+64

Does not equal 158. Ever.

The OP was a mistake that got 16 Recs because people were too "enthusiastic" to think.

And thanks for letting it slide, (and not putting me on ignore! :P,) I was ranting a little.

[AtomicKitten]

74. No worries; I was commenting more broadly.

Obama just has this knack of going into states, allegedly "losing," and coming away with more delegates than Clinton. Keeping her net gain at 9 delegates was an amazing outcome. He did exactly what he needed to do.

No worries about the frayed nerves around this joint ... it's epidemic! :hi:

[PBS Poll-435]

75. You sig pic

"Having his ass handed to him" cracks me up to no end. The look on the poor elephant's face. (He looks hungry and doesn't really know what to do!)

This will all be over soon. :toast:

[Alii]

83. It was obvious to me that 63+64 not equal to 158.

Oop, I had a NE symbol...didn't translate.

I was expecting about a 9 to 10 delegate advantage in PA. But surely you can see that that was but a minor dent into Obama's delegate lead. Easily made up in North Carolina.

Hillary did not achieve a double digit win...a high double digit win would have been required to keep her viable. Regardless how the MSM is spinning this...IT IS OVER. And, I don't need a magic calculator to come to this conclusion. It would take a monumental occurrence to derail Obama. It will not be Reverend Wright...I would hope that people are tired of this tired old garbage...hopefully rednecks will not determine the outcome of this race.

[PBS Poll-435]

84. Hmm...My calculator says 127.00.

?

[Alii]

85. Oops, I had a NE symbol...didn't translate...

Corrected.

p.s. I earned an "A" in advanced statistics...granted, many years ago. Now I can barely calculate a mean, mode and median and maybe a standard deviation or two. For sure, I can still calculate simple additions, etc.

[Elidor]

79. o.0

HA HA!

[davidpdx]

86. According to RCP it's 83-73

Clinton got 10 more delegates then Obama, but they still have 2 that are not assigned. A split of those two would put it at 84-74, still a 10 delegate net and she won by about 10%

The funny thing is the other day I said that Clinton could conceivably net about as many delegates as she wins by as a percentage. I only wish I could find the post where I said it.

[rodeodance]

89. thanks for the update.

[Political Heretic]

93. Sigh. Sometimes its embarassing to be associated with certain other obama supporters. :P

[doggycat]

94. Yeah, the race is over

And has been over for a while. The lead is unsurmountable.

[invictus]

95. K & R