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How can anyone say Hillary is more electable when she only earns 10% of the African-American vote?

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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:07 PM
Original message
How can anyone say Hillary is more electable when she only earns 10% of the African-American vote?
This is the single most loyal voting bloc in the Democratic Party coalition but she only pulls in 1 in 10 African-American voters. Does anyone really believe she could count on their support in November ... especially if the party "insiders" subvert the will of the millions of rank-in-file voters in order to insall her ("the white lady") as the nominee?
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ej510 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. You're being generous she only got 8%
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Maybe a bit generous. Early exits reported 8%.
I see that adjusted to 10% of Black Dems in PA -- http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epol...
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
56. The 10% who say they voted for her...
are lying. :rofl:
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
71. That's because CNN ALWAYS "adjusts" their exit polls...
to "match" the actual vote count. IMO, that doesn't say much for the "actual" vote-counting methods. Call me a conspiracy theorist - I am. I'm always curious when someone outperforms most polls. Especially exit polls.

:hi:
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. She can't win the youth vote either.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. The way she and her campaign / supporters have dismissed young voters is reprehensible.
Young voters are finally energized and could be the backbone of our party for a generation. Since Hillary is not making inroads, they are merely wild-eyed "Kool Aid" drinkers. :grr:

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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. That really gets me angry as well.
The democratic party would have KILLED to get the youth turnout Obama gets and Hillary&Co demonize them.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
73. Young voters undervalue "experience"...
I'm 56, so I guess I would be considered an outlier among that demographic. I completely dismiss Hillary's "experience" - also, I'm not important. I'm getting thirsty - got any Kool-Aid?
;)
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ZinZen Donating Member (599 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
54. nor the party activist vote. They no longer matter.
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Liberal Gramma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. And if she is perceived to have stolen the nomination from a black candidate,
that will be 0%
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. Clearly.....
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
75. "Clearly..."
"It's clear these elections they're having aren't going to count for anything." - Hillary Clinton, on Michigan and Florida primaries.

Great graphic!

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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. You're insane.
That makes too much sense.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. You have a point
But when you bring up that Obama is getting 9 out 10 black voters than you will have people say oh they are only voting for him because he's black. They never say maybe he represents what they want in a President.

Hillary and Bill have been actively and selectively playing the race card. They are turning on groups like MoveOn and other longtime supporters so they can embrace Richard Scaife and other poisonous supporters. She has sunk to Rovian tactics to win....

Hillary only plays to the minorities in the audience when they are a majority of a particular state.

To say the least she is the one I am most dissapointed in.


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jbm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
9. a very experienced political insider type told me..
that if the youth vote fails to turn out, it's not a big deal-they are undependable to the point that they're not really figured into the equation. The black vote would hurt, but I doubt they would vote for McCain. On the other hand, many of Hillarys catholic vote probably would switch to McCain. Obama needs Hillarys voters at least as much as she needs his.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. That party insider deserves to be a cast outsider.
Turnout among young people in 2004 increased by a larger percentage than did turnout overall. They are poised to vote for and work for OUR party. Imagine that -- a new generation of activist Democrats.

Alas, after all the enthusiasm we've seen this primary season, if party insiders hijack the nomination in order to coronate her because it's "her turn", it would be much more than a missed opportunity.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. And that kind of thinking just got us eight years of Bush. n/t
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Tribetime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
10. The Clintons assumed that was their vote, They're bitter
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
58. The presidency was Hillary's reparations
for what Bill did to her..
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. This is the elephant in the room no one will talk about.
The older African-Americans I know (like my grandmother) will vote for the nominee, even if it is Clinton. But I'd be interested in knowing what the 18-55 year old African-Americans would do. Most of my friends (the majority who were big Hillary fans) are threatening to sit out the election if she is the nominee.

I have never seen such dissention in the Democratic party during my lifetime.

I'm African-American, and I'm wondering how many will stay home. I will, of course, vote for the nominee. But I am disturbed by the bitterness that has been caused by this extended primary. On one hand I want to tell all these people to GROW THE FUCK UP and act like the adults they are. But on the other hand, I feel that there is just cause for the anger and, yes, bitterness. Many rational people I have known for years (who happen to be African-American) are threatening not to vote if Hillary steals the nomination.

I don't know how to respond to that.

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Kaylee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
72. I'm seeing a lot of this from my friends also....
My own parents (who are a little outside the demo you cited), have said they are not going to vote for Hillary...and these are people who have voted for the Democratic nominee in every election since they reached voting age 45 years ago!

I must admit I'm on the fence, and Hillary is trying her best to knock me off. But I just think about the Supreme Court, Iran & Iraq, and my two beautiful kids.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
13. Shhh. Mant of the people you're talking to are mathematically challenged
Edited on Wed Apr-23-08 11:25 PM by Catherina
I like to remind them that

MATH. It's not just for boys anymore.



Rec this thread- If you think it's time for Hillary to drop out

12 hours later it has 936 938 939 943 946 950 956 recommendations. Makes me ole heart go :woohoo:
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
14. Are many african americans voting for Obama because he is black?
Edited on Wed Apr-23-08 11:19 PM by Evergreen Emerald
Obama used his race to rally the black voters against Clinton using race to divide. Yet, you blame her and suggest that if she cannot win the black vote how can she be electable? If Obama had not been black, he would not have the majority of the "black vote."

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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. It was only a matter of time before a Hillary supporter went there.
You win the prize.

You are right. I do blame her...and her apologist-enablers as well.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Go where?
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. FerraroLand.
n/t
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. come on. how dare you. We cannot have a legitimate conversation without you
calling me a racist? What a pig you are.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. Are you calling Ferraro a racist?
I wouldn't necessarily object to that label as a perfect fit for her...

All I am saying is that your comments echo hers.

Pig? Get some rest, Evergreen-Rodeo. :)

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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. What does this mean?
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. I didn't see that thread before I posted mine but I stand with Kristi1696.
:patriot:
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. what does it mean? It sounds like race may be involved in this vote somehow
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Ashy Larry Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Are many european americans voting for Clinton because she is white?
Edited on Wed Apr-23-08 11:28 PM by Ashy Larry
Clinton used her race to rally the white voters against Obama using race to divide. Yet, you blame him and suggest that if he cannot win the white vote how can he be electable? If Clinton had not been white, she would not have the majority of the "white vote."
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. I don't know. I do wonder what accounts for the significant number of
african American voters in PA going for Obama. What were the numbers? 90% to 8%? That tells me that many are voting in support of their race. Just like Michelle asked them to.

What accounts the stat?
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Ashy Larry Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Most black people are anti-war.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. So is Clinton. She has been a strong fighter for civil rights her career
And has fought for progressive causes that affect African American communities.

It is just such a significant number 90% to 8% and I wonder what accounts for it.
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Ashy Larry Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. No, she isn't. She voted for the Iraq war for example. Maybe you didn't hear about that one.
When has she fought for civil rights? What progressive causes has she fought for in the senate? Being rhetorically supportive of civil rights issues does not make you a "strong fighter".
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. So did Obama, again and again. So, that can't be it.
Here you go: some of Clinton's fights.
Senator Clinton supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Humane Society of the United States 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Trust for Historic Preservation 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Education Association 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Wilderness Coalition 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Children's Defense Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Association of University Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Organization for Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 91 percent in 2006.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 100 percent in 2005

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence 100 percent from 1988-2003 (Senate) or 1991-2003 (House).

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Public Health Association 80 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Service Employees International Union 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers 84 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Worker 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees 88 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of Government Employees 83 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Committee for an Effective Congress 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 100 percent in 2005.

According to the National Journal - Composite Liberal Score's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on economic, defense and foreign policy issues than 80 percent of the Senators.

According to the National Journal - Liberal on Social Policy's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on social policy issues than 83 percent of the Senators.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Alliance for Retired Americans 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans 92 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Bread for the World 100 percent in 2003-2004.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Partnership for the Homeless 100 percent in 2003-2004.
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can ...

She was promoting universal coverage before it was cool. Furthermore she helped to create the SCHIP program. And most importantly she was dead on in the debate the other week where she said political will was the most important thing needed to push health care reform through and we know without a doubt she has that.

She has fougt unrelentingly for a woman's right to choose as well as women's rights both domestically and abroad

Create a Strategic Energy Fund - Hillary has proposed a Strategic Energy Fund that would inject $50 billion into research, development and deployment of renewable energy, energy efficiency, clean coal technology, ethanol and other homegrown biofuels. Hillary's proposal would give oil companies a choice: invest in renewable energy or pay into the fund. Hillary's proposal would also eliminate oil company tax breaks and make sure that oil companies pay their fair share for drilling on public lands. Instead of sending billions of dollars to the Middle East for their oil, Hillary's proposal will create a new clean energy industry in America and create tens of thousands of jobs here.

Champion a Market-Based "Cap and Trade" Approach - Hillary supports a market-based, cap and trade approach to reducing carbon emissions and fight global warming. This approach was used successfully to limit sulfur dioxide and reduce levels of acid rain in the 1990s. By capping the amount of emissions in the environment and allowing corporations to buy and sell permits, this approach offers corporations a flexible, cost-efficient method to do their share to reduce emissions and combat global warming. The program will reduce emissions, drive the development of clean technologies, and create a market for projects that store carbon dioxide.

20% Renewable Electricity Standard by 2020 - Hillary believes we need to shift our reliance on high carbon electricity sources to low-carbon electricity sources by investing in renewable energy sources, such as solar and wind. As President, she'll work to require power companies to obtain 20 percent of their energy from renewable sources by 2020.

Make Federal Buildings Carbon Neutral - Hillary believes that the federal government should lead the way in reducing carbon emissions from buildings. Buildings account for 40 percent of U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, and the federal government owns or leases more than 500,000. Hillary would require all federal buildings to steadily increase the use of green design principles, energy efficient technologies, and to generate energy on-site from solar and other renewable sources. By 2030, all new federal buildings and major renovations would be carbon neutral, helping to fight global warming and cutting the $5.6 billion that the federal government spends each year on heating, cooling and lighting.

Protecting Against Exposure to Toxic Chemicals - Hillary wants to make the products we use safer, especially for children. There are tens of thousands of chemicals used in the U.S. and hundreds of new chemicals introduced each year, but little health testing is conducted for many of them. Hillary would require chemical companies to prove that new chemicals are safe before they are put on the market, and would set more stringent exposure standards for kids. She would also create a "priority list" of existing chemicals and require testing to make sure they are safe. To improve our understanding of the links between chemicals and diseases like cancer, Hillary would create an "environmental health tracking network" that ties together information about pollution and chronic diseases.

Hillary's Record

In the White House, Hillary led efforts to make adoption easier, to expand early learning and child care, to increase funding for breast cancer research, and to help veterans suffering from Gulf War syndrome who had too often been ignored in the past. She helped launch a national campaign to prevent teen pregnancy and helped create the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997, which moved children from foster care to adoption more quickly and the number of children who have moved out of foster care into adoption has increased dramatically.

She was instrumental in designing and championing the State Children's Health Insurance Program, which has provided millions of children with health insurance. She battled the big drug companies to force them to test their drugs for children and to make sure all kids get the immunizations they need through the Vaccines for Children Program. Immunization rates dramatically improved after the program launched.

Hillary has been a leading member of the Environment and Public Works Committee since she was elected to the Senate. Today, she chairs the Superfund and Environmental Health Subcommittee and in that capacity has promoted legislation to evaluate and protect against the impact of environmental pollutants on people's health and clean up toxic waste.

Global warming and Clean Air
Spoken out forcefully about the need to tackle global warming in hearings, speeches, rallies and on the Senate floor and co-sponsored "cap and trade" legislation.
Worked to reduce air pollution that causes asthma and other respiratory diseases by writing and helping to pass new laws to clean up exhaust from school buses, and other diesel-powered equipment.
Supported legislation to reduce pollution from power plants, including harmful emissions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, mercury, and carbon dioxide - emissions that contribute to poor air quality, smog, acid rain, global warming, and mercury contamination of fish.
Aggressively fought the Bush Administration's ill-advised attempts to weaken clean air laws.

Improving Water Quality and Protecting Drinking Water
Helped to overturn the Bush Administration's attempt to allow more arsenic in drinking water.
Cosponsored legislation to protect lakes, rivers and coastal waters by fighting the spread of destructive invasive species, such as the zebra mussel.
Helped ot pass new clean water laws, including measures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

Protecting Public Lands
Fought oil company efforts to pen the Artic Wildlife Refuge in Alask and Pacific and Atlantic coastal waters to drilling.
Cosponsored the Roadless Area Conservation Act, which prohibits road construction and logging in unspoiled, roadless areas of the National Forest System, and voted for additional funding and manpower to combat forest fires in the west.

Reducing Dangerous Chemicals and Cleaning Up Hazardous Waste
Supported legislation to restore the "polluter pays" principle by reinstating a chemical company fee to fund cleanups of highly contaminated "Superfund" waste sites.
Cosponsored the "kids-Safe Chemical Act," which requires chemical companies to provide health and safety before putting new chemicals in consumer products.
Proposed legislation to create an environmental health tracking network to enable us to better understand the impact of environmental hazards on human health and well-being.

Tackling the Toxic Legacy of 9/11
Pushed for health care benefits for first responders, residents and others whose health has been impacted from breathing the toxic dust and smoke in New York City after 9/11.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/8/20/134810/677

Hillary Clinton co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund, in 1977. In late 1977, President Jimmy Carter (for whom she had done 1976 campaign coordination work in Indiana) appointed her to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation, and she served in that capacity from 1978 through the end of 1981. For much of that time she served as the chair of that board, the first woman to do so. During her time as chair, funding for the Corporation was expanded from $90 million to $300 million, and she successfully battled against President Ronald Reagan's initial attempts to reduce the funding and change the nature of the organization.

Following the November 1978 election of her husband as Governor of Arkansas, Clinton became First Lady of Arkansas in January 1979, her title for a total of twelve years. Bill appointed her chair of the Rural Health Advisory Committee the same year, where she successfully obtained federal funds to expand medical facilities in Arkansas' poorest areas without affecting doctors' fees.

Hillary Clinton chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee from 1982 to 1992, where she sought to bring about reform in the state's court-sanctioned public education system. One of the most important initiatives of the entire Clinton governorship, she fought a prolonged but ultimately successful battle against the Arkansas Education Association to put mandatory teacher testing as well as state standards for curriculum and classroom size in place. She introduced Arkansas' Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth in 1985, a program that helps parents work with their children in preschool preparedness and literacy.

And a bit of stuff from the White House years:

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage. She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare. She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.

The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome. Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice. In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage.<124> She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare.<125> She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.<43> The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome.<43> Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice.<43> In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.<43> As First Lady, Clinton hosted numerous White House Conferences, including ones on Child Care (1997),<126> Early Childhood Development and Learning (1997),<127> and Children and Adolescents (2000),<128> and the first-ever White House Conferences on Teenagers (2000)<129> and Philanthropy (1999).<130>

Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

"...Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries..."

More:
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/israe ...
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/darfu ...


The following are polls from progressive groups, rating Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, on how often they vote for progressive issues. For each group, http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php

Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (progressivepunch)
Overall Progressive Score: 92% 90%
Aid to Less Advantaged People at Home and Abroad: 98% 97%
Corporate Subsidies 100% N/A
Education, Humanities and the Arts 88% 100%
Environment 92% 100%
Fair Taxation 97% 100%
Family Planning 88% 80%
Government Checks on Corporate Power 95% 97%
Healthcare 98% 94%
Housing 100% 100%
Human Rights & Civil Liberties 82% 77%
Justice for All: Civil and Criminal 94% 91%
Labor Rights 91% 91%
Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful 94% 90%
War and Peace 80% 86%
easures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

HILLARY'S EXPERIENCE ON THE WORLD STAGE:

Her historic speech at the UN Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing in 1995 not only galvanized women around the world, it helped spawn a movement that led to advances politically, legally, economically, and socially for women in many countries over the next decade. Among other initiatives, she spearheaded the Clinton Administration's efforts to combat the global crisis of human trafficking. She persuaded the First Ladies of the Americas to use their collective power to eradicate measles and improve girls' education throughout the western Hemisphere. And she is widely credited with helping women in Kuwait finally win the right to vote.

As First Lady and now as a two-term senator who represents the most ethnically diverse state in the nation and who sits on the Armed Services Committee, Hillary Clinton has become a fixture on international issues over the past 15 years. She has traveled to more than 80 countries, going from barrios to rural villages to meetings with heads of state. She has consulted with dozens of world leaders - Nelson Mandela, King Abdullah, Tony Blair among them -- on matters as diverse as America and NATO's roles in Kosovo, eradicating poverty in the Third World, and the plight of women living under the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Today, she is one of the most influential voices in the world on human rights, democracy, and the promotion of a "new internationalism" in foreign affairs that calls for a balanced use of military force, diplomacy, and social development to strengthen American interests and security globally.

While American First Ladies historically have made great (and often overlooked) contributions to our nation, Hillary Clinton's wide-ranging experience on international issues as First Lady is unprecedented. Indeed, she is the only First Lady to have delivered foreign policy addresses at major gatherings of the United Nations, the World Bank, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the World Economic Forum.
Perry Logan

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Ashy Larry Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. So, what you're trying to say is that you are only supporting Hillary because she is a white woman.
Interesting.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. That is not what I am saying at all. But, I admit that her gender is a part of why
I am voting for her. It is not the whole reason, but a part of it.
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ScarletSniper Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #45
69. So you're no different than someone that's vote for Obama because he's black..partly anyway,.lol
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
81. She's Just Not Black
and that's good enough for some white dem voters.
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #14
51. You are once again wrong
Obama did not start out with the majority of the black vote. Even as late as February of this year he did not have the majority of the black vote.

Obama earned the black vote as much as Clinton pushed it away. Clinton was the one who decided to play with racial politics thinking she could do so with impunity. Obviously the black community has shown her that she cannot.

And just for the record black people have voted for non black candidates for as long as we can vote and now when there's a viable black candidate the assumption is that he's getting the black vote because he's black?

Hell no and the insinuation is utterly insulting. Seriously there's a huge apology owed to the black community by anyone spewing such nonsense.

By the way for the record this black woman's first choice was John Edwards. Last I checked the man is white.

Regards
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CitizenLeft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #51
67. well said.
John Edwards was also THIS black woman's first choice. Even after Edwards dropped out, I was neutral on Clinton and Obama, and on the fence. Bill Clinton's sly remarks in SC and Hillary's kitchen sink pushed me over to Obama, where I now sit firmly. I have 2 cousins, both black women, whose 1st choice was also John Edwards. Neither has the least bit interest in Obama, even now, didn't even vote in their respective primaries, but they'll vote for him in November.

I have no idea what "ignored" said, but I get the gist from your response - what you said was right on.

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ScarletSniper Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
68. Nope. B lame Bill and Billy Sheehan, for their tactics..sorry
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Thepricebreaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
22. Didnt Bush even do better then 8% of that vote in 2004?
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
23. She had the vast majority of that vote until very recently.
The vast majority would Still vote for either of them in November.

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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. Bill in South Carolina.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #23
59. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #59
63. She had nearly twice the support even late last year over Obama.
Edited on Thu Apr-24-08 01:14 AM by onehandle
Most were not even aware of him earlier in the year.

And congratulations, FrenchieCat. That's the most racist thing anyone has ever directed to me in the seven+ years I've been a member.

Classy to the end.
_____________________________

Poll: Black support helps Clinton extend lead (Wed October 17, 2007)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sen. Hillary Clinton's lead over Sen. Barack Obama, her chief rival for the Democratic presidential nomination, is growing among African-American voters who are registered Democrats, and particularly among black women, a poll said Wednesday.

Among black registered Democrats overall, Clinton had a 57 percent to 33 percent lead over Obama.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/17/poll.blacks.demo...
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
26. You hit on the main reason why the supers will support the candidate with more pledged delegates.
Edited on Wed Apr-23-08 11:39 PM by totodeinhere
If they overturn the results and give it to Clinton they can kiss the African American vote goodbye in the general. They might very well set back the Democratic party for a generation. And the Dems would also have to kiss their majorities in Congress goodbye.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. Might set back the Democratic party a generation?
Holy hyperbole. And if Obama is nominated, celestial choirs will be singing and everybody will line up behind Obama and his eventual 400 electoral vote victory? :eyes:
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Now that's just stupid.
Edited on Wed Apr-23-08 11:55 PM by jefferson_dem
You and Hillary deserve each other.

Enjoy your stay.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
28. The irony of her kitchen sink strategy is that she has rendered herself unelectable.
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
36. What percentage of the total US population are African-Americans? Got any idea? nt
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. 13-14(ish)%
n/t
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True_Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #38
61. What about the Hispanic vote?
McCain is very popular with Hispanics, but not as popular as Hillary. If Obama gets the nomination, McCain will most certainly get the Hispanic votes.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #61
77. Latinos are 15%, blacks 12% of the population (4.4% is Asian, 1% Native Am., 2% multiracial)
Edited on Thu Apr-24-08 01:03 PM by jackson_dem
Among voters, though, as of right now there are slightly more black voters than Latino voters nationally. I expect 10-11% of the GE vote to be black and 7-9% to be Latino with Asians accounted for 2% and Native Americans 1%.
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kwenu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. Latinos don't vote in the same numbers as Blacks and the Latino vote is split with Repubs.
Edited on Thu Apr-24-08 01:09 PM by kwenu
It will be at least another 20 years for the Latino group to translate to solid voting stock assuming they do a full head on in get out the vote efforts. Recall Antonio Villaraigosa, Mayor of Los Angeles. Widely credited as a source of Latino voting power. One problem. He was elected by black voters and would not have won without them.

In short, Black people move as one entity in voting patterns as a rule. Power that they were not properly credited with until now.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. With Obama it will be split. In 2006 Latinos voted 70-29 for Democrats
Clinton and Gore carried Latinos by wide margins. Kerry, though, did not and that is a big reason he lost. Kerry won Latinos only 56-44. Expect a similar performance from Obama...

If we are going to discuss ethnic voting we need to look at the entire picture and when you do that it is Clinton who is stronger. Obama may not even carry Latinos in the GE, would struggle mightily to get even 40% of the white vote, and would not get the same margins with Asians Clinton would. Contrast that with the Obama argument. He would bring about 20-30% more of 10% of the population. That is 2-3% nationally. If we look at it strictly in ethnic terms Clinton should be the nominee. Of course there are other factors to consider. We can't risk losing much of the AA vote for a generation. Obama losing the GE wouldn't cost us Latinos, whites, or Asians beyond 2008.
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kwenu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. Why do you keep going back to the they won't vote for a Black man chatter.
Where do you get your numbers from because they sound crazy. If racial hatred is enough for a person to act contrary to their own interests then let them pay the penalty. I don't think that racist voting will happen in large enough numbers to deny Obama the Presidency. And as babyboomers and their parents die, this will become even less of an argument.
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TPILOL Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
39. huh
Um what makes you think that because theyre voting for Obama that means they wont vote for Clinton vs McLame
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Make this argument to Hillary and her supporters
who think they can extrapolate support during the primaries into support in the General.

The OP speaks for itself.
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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
41. Kinda funny george bush was elected twice with 10% or less of
the black folk.
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #41
47. Yes, but that's not Bush's base.
Bush relied on his base to win and Hillary will also need her base. If Bush had alienated his base, he would have been dead meat. Hillary NEEDS African American voters in order to win in November. If she alienates them, she is a sure loss.

Oh, and please don't use the term "black folk", it's offensive.
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
44. This is one of the main reasons why the supers won't overturn the pledged delegate leader
Another reason is because of all the new, mainly young, voters Obama has brought into the fold. It won't happen.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. Where are all these new young voters that Obama has brought into the fold?
Edited on Thu Apr-24-08 12:01 AM by NJSecularist
How come they didn't show up in Pennsylvania? Only 12% of the electorate was under 30 years old.
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. PA is the oldest state in the union after Florida, so obviously it's skewed towards older voters
nice try though ;-)
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. Is that what the excuse is going to be in the general election?
Let's write off Pennsylvania and Florida in the general election because of all those old voters!

With Obama's supposed ability to court the young vote, why were young voters only 12% of the electorate?
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. Did I say anything about "writing off PA?"
No. Please don't put words in my mouth. You wondered why only 12% of the PA voters yesterday were under 30. I answered. Don't twist it around.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. Well, what's the excuse going to be when only 12% of the electorate are young voters in the GE?
Are we going to write them Florida and Pennsylvania off in the general election because of all those old voters?
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. Again your saying Dems are just gonna write off PA and Flordia
Edited on Thu Apr-24-08 12:15 AM by Cali_Democrat
I said no such thing. I simply explained the demographic facts of PA and FL in the PRIMARY. The GE is a different animal entirely.

Oh, and I'm done with this conversation because you're putting words in my mouth.

Damn you got annoying all of a sudden.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. Why can't Obama's magical ability to court young voters working in the primaries?
Especially in a very important state like Pennsylvania.

Where is the evidence of this magical ability of Obama to court these voters?
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
49. Remarkably the only talking head on TV that made this same point was
Jack Cafferty. When Blitzer and company kept coming back on the point he just laughed at them. He had all the right numbers as well.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
60. How is Obama electable when he earns only
44% of women voters - the largest voting bloc in the US? :shrug:
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malik flavors Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #60
62. I guess they're both screwed, aren't they...
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 01:06 AM
Original message
All those latte liberals and party activists along with the netroots will propel him to victory!
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expada Donating Member (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
64. Primaries and General Elections are different
African Americans would overwhelmingly back Clinton over McCain. Do you doubt it? Unless they are suicidal and enjoy having no health insurance, of course.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
65. kick for discussion. nt
nt
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terrell9584 Donating Member (549 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
66. she won't lose the black vote in a general
Edited on Thu Apr-24-08 10:53 AM by terrell9584
because about 70% of the black population lives in the South, and another 20% lives in major cities which tend to be run by political machine and in which, blacks have not always been treated so well.

If black voters refuse to turn out, there will certainly be reprisals from the political machines, because in most cities, party organizations still run on loyalty. Machine politics may be less common today than it was 50 years ago, but it still exists today.

In the South, it gets more curious. There are many Democratic officials who hold their tenuous position in office only because black voters provide a cushion that means they only have to get a certain number of white votes. In some cases, this leads to white Democrats who are sympathetic to black interests, if just because of primary time. In other cases, these leads to control by black Democrats (who have the interests of the black community at heart). Now, in many of these black districts, a significant reduction in black turnout will lead to the replacement of many of these Democratic officials with Republican officials, who would know that they are there for one term, and who would have no interest in well, being good to the black community. If anything, in Republican politics in the South, being anti-black is actually a good campaign platform to run on, it has to be coded right, but it is still used today.

In other words, blacks refuse to vote out of some anger over Obama, they then undercut their position as 100-200 Republican sheriffs suddenly take formerly Democratic sheriffs positions and immediately begin to ramp up the pressure because, well, they have 4 years in office and for them, these offices will be nothing more than a stepping stone. In states where the legislatures have seats up for grabs, this could lead to Republican control, and what will Republicans do, especially ones who could care less about re-election, well, affirmative action, the first thing on the chopping block, as well as any government program that is theorized to be more for blacks than whites. The Republicans have tried for years to make the GOP the white mans party, and they have failed largely because of the fact that the Democratic Party still has tort attorney money, and in most Deep South states, can outraise the GOP handily. If the GOP did gain control, it would be 4 years of governance on race, that would be explicitly designed to benefit whites at the expense of blacks, in an attempt to lure stalwart whites into the Republican Party.

You could even see these legislatures pass modern versions of Jim Crow type legislation. In Northern cities, a reduction in black political representation that would necessarily be caused by reduced turnout, well, let's just say, police repression would increase, and you would see retaliation against the community by party big wigs who would want to do something retalitory (like when a neighborhood votes against an incumbent, and when he retains his office, suddenly that neighborhood school gets closed, and they decide to build a proposed recreational area elsewhere, all to punish neighborhood residents)

Of all groups in the country, the idea that blacks, who have been oppressed for years, are going to refuse to vote and as such, set their cause back 50 years, I just do not see that happening.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
70. If You Think Her Pulling In Only 1 Of 10 Has ANYTHING To Do With Her, You're Certifiably Insane.
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hill_win_2008 Donating Member (146 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
74. I thought this was the primary still
In the general election, Hillary will get the black vote. Right now, the black vote is going to...the black candidate!

I mean Obama got a smaller percentage of the woman vote...guess he can't win the GE without that woman vote. Come on!
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
76. She won't be running a black person in the GE
In 1988 Jackson got almost all the black vote, just like Obama did. In the general election, even after rebuffing Jackson's demand as the second place finisher to be put on the ticket, Dukakis won nine out of ten black votes.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
78. As I posted earlier: The notion was that blacks are loyal to the Clintons. That's why they decided
it was okay to make hints about drugs and play up associations Farrakhan and ties to terrorists, etc.

The Clintons figured it would play well with a certain segment of the Democratic Party, and that black voters would come back around to Hillary in the GE. A win was worth throwing black support under a bus.

If they're going to keep using the blue-collar white voters to make the electability argument for Hillary, then does anyone believe Hillary can win by disenfranchising black voters?

This is the divisiness that has resulted from Hillary's campaign. This is the Dem primary and we have a candidate trying to link the other to terrorists. I don't care who supports Hillary, no one can tell me this crap is "just politics," and as such it should be accepted.

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kwenu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
79. They haven't come to reality to realize that black votes count if a Dem is to win.
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