We've hit a new DU low

[JuniperLea]

When people can applaud a radio host for calling Hillary supporters "white trash"... we've become less than pond scum.

Seriously people... do you read your own posts?

Appalling.

[EFerrari]

1. You know "appalling" means "to turn white", right?!

:)

[JuniperLea]

5. LOL!

Now my side hurts!

:)

[EFerrari]

33. Seriously, that thread is . . not available to me.

And it's probably a good thing, too.

[JuniperLea]

39. You are quite fortunate...

Randi Rhodes called all Hillary supporters white trash... and she is being canonized on DU for this act of racism. It's pretty disgusting.

[EFerrari]

43. That is disgusting. Sometimes I think Randi has some kind of

an alcohol problem or something. Her judgment seems to have eroded to nothing.

[JuniperLea]

49. I used to be her number one fan...

Stephanie Miller's too... I just can't take their hate anymore.

[ronnykmarshall]

134. Me too!

I have Randi and Steph T-Shirts, called into Randi once (still have the recording of it), was the "Offical Gay Stalker" of the Stephanie Miller show, met Steph twice and called in several times.

It really sucks what's happened.

[DazedandConfused]

197. I cant stand listening to Miller, Shultz, Rhodes....

...I do like Bill Press though....

[stillcool]

95. "White trash" is not racist...

that is what white people call other white people...kind of like trailer trash.

[EFerrari]

97. If it's not racist, why is the word "white" needed?

I'm afraid I disagree mightily with you, stillcool47.

[stillcool]

I guess I'm from the 'wrong side of the tracks'..

or hung out at the wrong bars. I grew up with that language, in as white a setting as you can find.

[KittyWampus]

131. because it references a particular cultural subset. Race is about culture, not genetics.

Some people self-identify with certain cultural subsets. Though many do so with little or no conscious awareness.

That's why they're so easily manipulated via symbolism. So much of their world view, self identity operates below the surface.

IMO, the term 'white trash' can be somewhat derogatory (depending on intent) but not necessarily racist.

edit- I'm not really trying to justify the term 'white trash' or make a case it's racist or not. Just pondering the usage.

[EFerrari]

170. It's inherently racist because it is based on "color", not simply derogatory.

And of course "race" is about culture, not genetics.

[QC]

100. It is both racist and classist. No genuine progressive would ever say it.

That explains why it trips so effortlessly off the tongues of Randi and her fans here.

[stillcool]

106. "genunine progressives"..

that's interesting. White people calling white people names is all the rage here on DU. Do you ever come down from that high perch you're on?

[QC]

110. Do you ever climb out of that gutter you've been wallowing in

every since you got to DU?

Look around the thread and read some people do get it, and you might learn something useful from them.

[stillcool]

115. are you saying

I'm not high-brow enough for DU? Am I not your kind? Does DU look down on my kind?

[QC]

116. OK, I'll explain it.

"White trash" assumes that trashiness is normative for non-whites but not for whites. In other words, people who are both white and trashy are remarkable, whereas people of color are just naturally trashy.

"White trash" is also classist, because it is a special pejorative term for the poor, whose poverty is assumed to result from their inherent trashiness. They are not "trashy" because they are poor, but poor because they are trashy. This is one of the oldest ways by which the more comfortable wash their hands of the white poor. (They absolve themselves of any responsibility for poor people of color in the same way: _____s are just like that, you see. That's why they live they way they do. They just can't help it, because they are not like us.)

And don't try to pull blue-collar street cred on me: My dad worked in a factory, and I was the first in my family to make it to college, and had to work my way through. If you want to pretend that you are being oppressed by them fancy college boys with their big words and hoity-toity book-learnin', you need to look elsewhere.

[stillcool]

120. What is it that

you are referring to as 'Street Cred'? I may have grown up in a foster home, but I was never out on the street. Your 'defining' the term white trash/trailer trash is quaint. You can keep your condescending arrogant attitude and use it on someone else. I'm full up as they say.

[Name removed]

123. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

124. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bake]

143. In fact, I remember when using that term on DU would get a poster flamed

if not banned ...

Bake

[Kajsa]

171. Agree,QC.

That goes for describing ANY human being as "trash".

The "trailer park" " living in a double-wide" put downs
really get to me. Elitist, mean BS!

How can people call themselves "progressives"
when they look down upon those who live
in mobile homes?
Here in CA, those are the only homes many
people can afford! This is especially true for
seniors.

I rent- I can't afford any of them.

:(

[terrell9584]

103. white trash is the same equivalent

of when a modern white person uses the n word today

It conveys the same message, and to use the modifier trash to the word white is racist because it implies that they don't measure up to acceptable standards of whiteness. That's how it was always used in the South.

Epithets are unacceptable no matter what the context and who uses them

[stillcool]

112. white people calling white people names...

is racist? I consider myself a "modern white" person...albeit from the "wrong side of the tracks". Perhaps that is why I am more familiar with the usage of "white trash" and "trailer trash", then those that sit on higher perches?

[Ronnie]

122. Would you at least admit it is unkind to refer to a person that way?

I type that from a medium perch.

[stillcool]

126. It's nasty. without a doubt.

it is meant as condemnation. My comment was that it is not a racist term, but is used by white people against white people.

[JuniperLea]

176. Oh jeez

Calling someone white trash is making sure you know the person is white... because trash, you know, is generally not white.

:eyes:

[EFerrari]

177. Well, you know, that's a good point. Insiders talking to insiders.

The problem is, white people often talk to each other in the presence of other people as if those other people weren't there. And, that's where at least part of the problem lies. Like men talking trash in a roomful of women would be inappropriate where the same talk would be "fine" were those women not there.

[stillcool]

192. There is nothing appropriate..

about using 'white trash', or 'trailer trash'. The words are just as harmful as any derogatory term. I'm not understanding why my disagreement with the term being racist is not understood. Perhaps people are not familiar with being called that.

[JuniperLea]

175. Well said

Thank you

[MyNameGoesHere]

129. They do huh? Well hello white trash how ya doing? n/t

[stillcool]

133. Hi trailer trash..

how are you?

[MyNameGoesHere]

135. I am fine, white trash. How is your daddy/uncle? Has your sister/mommie

got rid of the clap yet?

[Terran]

136. It is, however...

rude and insulting in the extreme. There's no excuse.

[stillcool]

193. It absolutely is...

and no where did I suggest otherwise. I am familiar with the term, although I think it is a bit dated. "Trailer trash" is the term I am more accustomed to.

[Terran]

196. Sorry, did not mean to imply that you did suggest otherwise.

I think "trailer trash" is just late 20th century code for "white trash", which may be perceived as a little too specifically targeted for some people.

[knight_of_the_star]

199. So then calling an African-American the N word isn't racist

Because other African Americans call eachother that, based on your logic.

[raebrek]

200. White peope can call other white people white trash. n/t

[stillcool]

96. ..at least she didn't call them...

kool-aid drinking zombies that were part of a cult following Saint Hillary.

[Scairp]

109. Hmm

Well, what is white trash anyway? I'm not quite sure I understand who she is slandering with that phrase. Is it someone who lives in an upper class neighborhood, has a college education and a spouse who is an executive at an international company, children who have a 3.8 GPA (or better)? If that is the meaning of "white trash" then, thank you, thank you very much! And Randi Rhodes can suck it.

A White-Trash Hillary Clinton Supporter.

[madeline_con]

6. Beyond the pale, man.

:rofl:

[Political Heretic]

179. *snort!*

[Adelante]

144. Haha

:D



:hug:

[patrice]

2. That's a pretty trashy thing to do. nt

[JoFerret]

3. Agreed. Very low point.

.

[Catherine Vincent]

4. gotta link?

:hi:

[JuniperLea]

8. ugh...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5655486

[AspenRose]

10. "You are ignoring the author of this thread"

Oh well, lucky me

[JuniperLea]

12. You are quite fortunate...

I may need to get blood pressure medicine!

[grantcart]

21. me too

[QueenOfCalifornia]

70. If you could read it

She (the OP) says she is disgusted by Randi's behavior - she does not condone it - some of the people in response may be subject to being total idiots though.

I am an Obama supporter.

I do not condone the rhetoric coming from Randi.

I find it damned stupid.

[Bjorn Against]

42. I read the thread and there was one nasty comment that really stood out...yours.

Here are your words:

Look up "white trash" in your Funk & Wagnalls, Randi... yes, that is a picture of you!

What a fucking whore.

Sorry, I couldn't hold myself back. She is lower than the soft white underbelly of pond scum.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5655486&mesg_id=5655924

Maybe it is just me, but seeing that comment in the context of your OP in this thread may make you seem like a wee bit of a hypocrite to some people.

[JuniperLea]

47. And you see the self-contained apology for calling her that name

Besides, you can be a fucking whore in any color.

:hi:

[gaspee]

151. What a surprise

I'm ignoring the author of that thread.

It's appalling, is what it is. Just like an Obama supporter made a post saying Clinton has the "Archie Bunker" wing of the party all sewn up.

Real nice.

This is not my DU - hasn't been for months.

[BayouBengal07]

7. I agree.

When we start trashing working class voters as white trash "Joe Sixpacks," nobody wins.

[JuniperLea]

9. Right you are...

As if the new hate is better than the old... white trash, the new black? ugh. Just not right. Not right at all.

[bigwillq]

11. Very, very low.

I don't know why it's ok to resort to name calling now..here on DU, it seems like that's what a lot of supporters (of both sides) have turned to, and it just make me very angry.

[JuniperLea]

14. And celebrating name calling is all the more disgusting

I'm angry too. Not to mention sick and tired.

[samdogmom]

13. I take it that you're a Hillary supporter.

Lows were struck when she endorsed McCain over Obama, invoked 9/11 in ads during the PA primary, pretended not to know if Obama was a Muslim, etc.....

Seriously, do you follow your candidate's bizarre and outrageous statements?

She's a loose wheel that needs to be reigned in by the party. I hope somebody is on this!

[JuniperLea]

18. Typical

No, I am NOT a Hillary supporter.

I voted for Edwards on Super Tuesday and never looked back. I've never supported either of the two peas in a pod candidates we have left.

She's not my candidate, and you are not my flavor of DUer... I can't abide by anyone who cannot understand that there are a lot of Democrats who do not fit your nice little molds, who do not support either candidate, but who will vote for whomever gets the nomination.

All y'all are fucking nuts.

[Birthmark]

26. Best summation I've seen, Juniper:

"All y'all are fucking nuts."

I'd like to say a pox on both their houses, but it seems like a waste of a good pox.

[JuniperLea]

40. LOL!

I'll file that one away with "may you live in interesting times" and "may the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits"... classic!

[readmoreoften]

Thank you! It's like people arguing over 1+2 or 2+1.

Radical centrists fighting over nothing. It's just pure hate and rage.

[JuniperLea]

54. Yes, it is...

And people like Randi Rhodes and Stephanie Miller are keeping the steaming cauldron of shit stirred as best they can. Despicable.

[samdogmom]

53. I'm confused! I pointed out some Hillary problems and

you accuse me of not fitting into some "mold". Sorry if I don't fit your "flavor" of the month. Me? I was an Edwards supporter too...but he dropped out before my primary. In the long run, I still think Obama is a better candidate than Hillary and I'm not buying your crazy put downs! As far as I'm concerned....you're another crazy Hillary supporter. You can try to prove me wrong...but that's what I think right now. Basically, I've written you off!

[JuniperLea]

57. Read again

I'm not sure what you're snorting, but it has effected your reading comprehension. I'm saying you expect all of us to fit your mold... you accused me of being a Hillary supporter.

Take your marbles and leave... fine by me! Here, I'll help you pack 'em up!

[samdogmom]

62. Good grief! You really are crazy! Wow!

[JuniperLea]

65. I rest my case...

You might consider taking a nap... after putting the crack pipe down.

[samdogmom]

72. Projection?

[JuniperLea]

83. Yes, I'm sure you are projecting eom

[samdogmom]

93. I rest my case!

Wow. That was too easy! I'm actually smirking!

(Another bat shit crazy Hillary supporter bites the dust!)

[ruggerson]

84. you can say that again

[QC]

102. It's amazing how much trouble the simpleminded have with the possibility

that there might be more than two types of people in the world. Anything that's not a simple binary blows them away.

[Fresh_Start]

104. Couldn't agree more

both the HRC and BHO supporters need to take a real hard look at themselves.

[ampad]

28. Thank you

Interesting enough I read a post where a Hillary supporter basically called black people stupid. I don't see a single post about the absurdity of that statement. :shrug:

[JuniperLea]

41. You should have posted something!

I would have.

[samdogmom]

67. I don't think these Hillary fanatics are going to help!

Hillary is a dolt...end of story. If her supporters can't fix the "mis-statement" you're reporting...then good riddance. Obama is a much more inclusive candidate!

[gaspee]

152. Link?

Please point out where, exactly, this occurred. I don't believe you, just in case I haven't made that clear.

[ecstatic]

15. for the record, if the quote is true, I think it is kind of harsh

I think she just misspoke due to anger and passion. I don't think education level is related to whether or not someone is trash. And I'm not too fond of the phrase "white trash" because the phrase itself seems racist against non-whites.

[Catherine Vincent]

29. I agree.

"And I'm not too fond of the phrase "white trash" because the phrase itself seems racist against non-whites."

[Cha]

16. What's your point?

Don't hear you whining when hilary's acting like rich white trash.

[FrenchieCat]

17. If only Hillary could realize the truth, she wouldn't be causing so hurt in this party!

[JuniperLea]

22. The only thing hurting the party...

Is the incessant whining. Cut it the fuck out.

[DemVet]

147. So you agree with the "white trash" statement?

[Condem]

19. Nope

that is fucking appalling. Believe it or not, we're democrats.

[newmajority]

20. 1 in 5 white voters in PA said they would NEVER vote for a BLACK MAN

If a cross burning, sheet wearing, sheep and sister fucking RACIST is not White Trash, then what is??

[Condem]

25. Racism in PA, new

Get used it. It's going to get MUCH worse in the GE

[JuniperLea]

35. While that may be true

Two wrongs do not make a right. Blathering one's own flavor of racism in response is just plain idiotic and scummy.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JuniperLea]

60. You are making no sense at all

Go back and read again... but put the crack pipe down first.

[JuniperLea]

27. Two wrongs don't make a right

Why lower yourself to that level? You are disgusting.

[Condem]

36. You got to get a spine, juniperx

We've got to win this thing! If it's in the gutter, than the gutter I shall be! GOBAMA!

[JuniperLea]

44. Spine has nothing to do with it...

I have plenty of spine... spine enough to hold myself above the scummy places... spine enough to do my own thinking and not go along with the crowd just to be cool or accepted.

[Condem]

52. It has nothing to do with cool

Michael Jordan, when asked if there was an I in team said, No, but there is WIN. Hey, How bout a Jordan endorsement in NC. That would be BIG!

[readmoreoften]

59. What? You think that less than 20% of white people are racist?

I hate to tell you this, but 28% of male voters in PA said they wouldn't vote for a woman.

But do you think that it's right to say that Kucinich is a sexist pig because 28% of men in Pennsylvania are sexist?
Is John Edwards also white trash because of the 20% of racist Pennsylvanians.

And, one more thing, doesn't the word 'white trash' in itself assume that "trash" is the inherent property non-white peoples?

[newmajority]

64. That's a pathetic argument, but since when do Edwards and Kucinich live in PA??

And the very idea of Dennis being a "sexist pig".... that's just laughable.

Who writes your analogies? Geraldine Ferrraro?

[JuniperLea]

66. "inherent property non-white peoples"

They just can't seem to think that deeply. You are so very correct.

[QC]

108. "doesn't the word 'white trash' in itself assume that "trash" is the inherent property ..."

BINGO! That is exactly what it assumes, which makes it so unfortunate that so many self-styled progressives think that it's not only an acceptable epithet but somehow enhances their progressive street cred.

[JuniperLea]

155. Not to be confused with the garden variety

In shades of black and brown.

It's freaking racist on so many levels, and racism is NOT covered by free speech.

[PVnRT]

23. More evidence that Randi Rhodes is a fucking twit

Air America can only have gotten better with her gone. Too bad no one around here broadcasts it.

[JuniperLea]

31. I agree

We get them all here in Los Angeles... fortunately, there are other stations to tune to.

[barack the house]

24. I'm all for getting back to positivity. Everyones vote is as sacred as anothers.

[Birthmark]

37. Well,

...except for Florida. lol

[cliffordu]

30. Whiter shade of pale??

We skipped the light fandango
turned cartwheels 'cross the floor
I was feeling kinda seasick
but the crowd called out for more
The room was humming harder
as the ceiling flew away
When we called out for another drink
the waiter brought a tray

And so it was that later
as the miller told his tale
that her face, at first just ghostly,
turned a whiter shade of pale

She said, 'There is no reason
and the truth is plain to see.'
But I wandered through my playing cards
and would not let her be
one of sixteen vestal virgins
who were leaving for the coast
and although my eyes were open
they might have just as well've been closed

She said, 'I'm home on shore leave,'
though in truth we were at sea
so I took her by the looking glass
and forced her to agree
saying, 'You must be the mermaid
who took Neptune for a ride.'
But she smiled at me so sadly
that my anger straightway died

[JuniperLea]

32. I love that song...

Thanks for the earworm!

:silly:

[cliffordu]

34. Anytime!!!

:hi:

[boston bean]

38. She called Hillary and Geraldine fuckin whores and that was applauded and hailed. nt

[Condem]

45. Hey, MassDemm

I never liked Randi Rhodes. The media is milking this thing for all it's worth. $$$$$$

[JuniperLea]

48. I know...

She'll be DU pope in no time.

:eyes:


What a disgusting role model.

[Ice-9]

46. If she really said that, then this Obama supporter is gonna

:puke:

[JuniperLea]

50. Check the link...

There were people there who said they heard it too... I can't say they were telling the truth. Guess you never really know.

Pretty sick, in any case.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lumberjack_jeff]

55. Been like this for awhile.

They excuse their behavior by telling the "fucking whores", "ignorant white fucks", "white trash" and "MRA's" (that one was from about an hour ago) that "only an idiot allows the comments of supporters to influence one's view of the candidate".

If you disagree with that sentiment, it's clearly because you are a racist.

Those of us who want to win really wish these people would shut the hell up, because they clearly don't.

Unfortunately, they've learned that nothing they say will get them the granite cookies they've so duly earned.

What does Obama deserve? What has he earned? He deserves better supporters.

[JuniperLea]

63. I feel badly for him

His supporters are not very supportive! In fact, they are making Hillary look more and more like an underdog... Americans love underdogs.

I'll vote for whomever gets the nomination. I hope we all have enough sense to do that.

[Upton]

68. Fact: there are racists supporting Hillary

Pa. was a prime example.

[JuniperLea]

71. FACT: It's beyond rude to battle one form of racism with another. eom

[lumberjack_jeff]

78. On the other hand, sexists supporting Obama...

... may or may not be the case, but it nevertheless is NOT a worthwhile question to pursue.

The "sexists" who support Obama and the "racists" who support HRC should be convinced to support the D candidate.

(I put it in quotes because it isn't your role to pick and choose who gets to be a democrat)

[tishaLA]

58. I have a different take but a similar conclusion

In that thread, which I just looked at, someone said, "Go Randi!" and someone else replied, "You Obama supporters..."

It looks to me like two groups of people who are willing to do almost anything to vilify each other. "White trash" and "you Obama supporters"--not as a particular, but as a universal--are really two sides of the same coin.

[JuniperLea]

73. I can agree to a point...

Though I'd much rather be called an Obama supporter than white trash.

Doesn't the term white trash imply that most trash isn't white at all? If you have to make the distinction...

I think it's offensive and racist toward both blacks and whites.

[tishaLA]

I agree with you

That it's offensive and racist. But I am not sure that the way to respond to the broad-brushing Randi did is with another broad brushing, especially if both are intended to be vituperative.

[walldude]

61. Yeah because Obamaton, cult member, sheep

Obamabots, idiots, suckers, those are all nice, friendly names that Hillary supporters use to describe Obama supporters. Take a look in the mirror. Hypocrite.

[JuniperLea]

75. In your little world two wrongs make a right, huh?

I hope you make it to the 4th grade this time.

[walldude]

79. You don't see me posting threads whining about name calling

That would be you. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of what you said. Sorry if your hypocrisy offends you.

[JuniperLea]

87. You make no sense...

buh bye

[walldude]

90. LMAO... No sense huh..

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I make perfect sense. You just can't counter the argument. Buh Bye!

[JuniperLea]

141. In your own little mind maybe... eom

[RiverStone]

69. It will get lower as Hillary's desperation gets higher

No, I'm not just blaming Hillary - plenty of negativity to go around.

But N.C. and Indiana truly represent the final throes of her campaign, unless Obama is hit with a major scandal.

The battle will get even worse before better - but just as we hit a new low, the SuperD's will pull the plug.

They will not let the party totally self destruct.

[JuniperLea]

77. What she does or does not do

Does not give people permission to be disgusting, vile, and racist.

[RiverStone]

92. Anger brings out the worse in people

And they could not give a shit about getting permission (or not) from anybody. Their choice.

[Cobalt-60]

74. It's just noise

Remember: the republicans are trying to fragment the party.
We're hearing a lot more unworthy remarks than we should because they are putting them in.
I don't give the faintest sh*t who calls who what around here.
The only insult I'd engage in a beat down over is...Republican.
Our mission is to Destroy the Republican Party this fall.
They stand exposed for the fasicsts, hypocrites, and malfeasant criminals that they really are.
We will never get a better shot at the fascist enemy.
Direct all that hate at the Republican enemy.
Or I'll slip through your window some night and rip a maximum strength fart.

[JuniperLea]

80. Please! Please start an OP with this thought!

I've been trying to get that idea out there for the longest time!

[Forkboy]

76. It took you this long and this issue to reach this conclusion?

Where have you been? Both sides were wallowing in mud months ago.

[JuniperLea]

82. Naw... I've just tried to stay out of the fray

This pinched and twisted a nerve.

Wallowing in mud is exactly what the GOP had hoped for!

[Catherina]

81. The worst low in that thread was you

admonishing the poster who correctly stated

Randi's show is delayed up here in Washington State

I just heard the discussion on her show about how 1 in 5 white voters in PA said that they would NEVER vote for "a black man"

One in 5 voters is AN ADMITTED FUCKING RACIST.

If that isn't White Trash, I don't know what the fuck is.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5655486#5656619

And that got your panties all in a twist.

So you're ok with racism but you don't want racists to be called what they are. Appalling.

Taking Randi's quote totally out of context is appalling, disgusting but not unexpected.

[JuniperLea]

86. Calling someone a racist is one thing

Calling someone white trash is offensive to both white and black people and it can never be right.

[merh]

85. Let's see if we can give some perspective to the "outrage"

Randi Rhodes did a very poor job when she tried to be a stand up comic. Granted, her routine included a very poor choice of words, but words that many hillary supporters use here constantly. They will call everyone a whore (but hillary) and not think twice about it. They use the word in the same manner Rhandi used it, not as an insult to women but reflecting her belief that hillary is a sell out to the corporations and the war mongers and whatever other special interest is out there that can get her votes. That use of the word is not that much different than the use hillary supporters make of it when they call the media whores if they dare speak badly of hillary.

Now consider the millions of dollars spent by the likes of Scaife to dredge up all the dirt he could on hillary and bill, his efforts were more than just a poor choice of words in a lame effort at stand up, they were hundreds of thousands of words and accusations, an entire project dedicated to the efforts to prove that hillary is a lesbian or that bill and hill had some drug deals going on in arkansas or bill is a rapist or they had vince foster killed. Millions of dollars, thousands of man hours devoted to calling hillary the worst sort of trash there is, to include whore I would imagine, and yet, Hillary has embraced his endorsement, calls him a gentleman and has no qualms with associating with him and having his support.

So tell me, is all this outrage about Rhandi Rhodes poor choice of words or her exercising her first amendment right to free speech really comparable to Hillary's embrace of the likes of Scaife?

[JuniperLea]

88. Why do we need to compare what Randi did with something completely different?

That all you got?

:eyes:

[merh]

91. How can you not compare all that Scaife has done to hillary

to the few words said by Rhandi?

The damage done by Scaife will haunt her forever, the words of Rhandi will only be a mark against Rhandi.

[merh]

98. LOL, is that all you've got?

How about some reading for you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkansas_Project

And maybe you want to take time out from the pro-dem-you-are-for forums and DU and go visit some of the "mixed" smaller boards where both righties and lefties post. If you did that you would discover that the "words" of Scaife have been taken as gospel by many conservatives and they can't wait until it all comes out again so that they can get their side back in the white house.

[JuniperLea]

140. You just can't stick to the subject I guess... eom

[merh]

195. Oh, I know the subject - you can't stick to the facts or deal

with cruel realities. This is about the CANDIDATES - not about someone that supports them, not about the mean mouthed souls on this board or out in the radio world saying stupid and nasty things.

The candidate, Hillary, doesn't care that folks have called her names, that is obvious given she embraces the man that funded the specific project targeting her and her husband. I don't know about you, but calling someone white trash isn't anywhere as despicable as calling someone a murderer or a rapist, it isn't anywhere as horrendous as paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to ruin the president and the party. Context is everything, some folks hug their name callers just in the hopes of getting the power they thing they are entitled to, others rally against pixels on a screen making a big to do about name calling that wasn't done by a candidate or a member of their staff.

Here's a suggestion, TURN OFF THE RADIO and start caring about the nation, the citizens, the issues and the party.

[Buzz Clik]

89. Sorry, but that's not a new low.

Same old shit, different day.

[EFerrari]

99. Thanks for the perspective.

:rofl:

[Buzz Clik]

113. Yeah, it took me two hours to pen that bit of philosophical genius.

[Catherina]

114. !

:rofl:

[JuniperLea]

157. Well worth the effort, I'd say! eom

[KoKo]

94. That's not the worst I've seen....most is here on DU...maybe Free Republic is more kind to

Hillary than elsewhere....I don't know...I don't go there...but it can't be worse. Today her supporters were compared to Archie Bunker folks. She is a Democrat...here husband was the first two term serving Democrat in Office since FDR.

This is supposed to be a Democratic site...yet she who is a legitimate Candidate for the Dem Party is trashed as "White Trash/Archie Bunker type and one person even posted on DU that all Hillary supporters might "break their hips" before they got to vote for her.

WE HAVE BECOME THOSE WE FOUGHT AGAINST...WE HAVE BECOME...FREE REPUBLIC FOR DEM HATERS....

:puke:

[QC]

117. I need to clarify something here.

I made the remark about Hillary supporters breaking their hips on the way to the polls, and it was in response to the standard kool kiddie assertion in that thread that only the ancient support Hillary.

It was, in other words, a joke. Of course, it's not hard to see how that slipped past you, since people say things every bit as stupid and hateful in perfect seriousness here every day.

[KoKo]

121. Thanks for "owning up to it."

That took guts to even bother. :hug: Your post would only be seen as humor to those who knew you, I think. There are "groups" here on DU who know each other and do "inside jokes" and you are kind to point out that your comment could have been mistaken as "every bit as stupid and hateful in perfect seriousness here every day." When reading down a thread, those of us "not in the group" might not catch a comment as a joke or humor.

[QC]

127. Yeah, but I hate that sarcasm smilie.

Of course, we need it--you can't really do satire in a place that has gone batshit insane.

[stillcool]

101. That is not even close...

to how low some people will go.

[Catherina]

105. We reached a new DU high too! It made my heart go

:woohoo:

Rec this thread- If you think it's time for Hillary to drop out

12 hours later it has 936 938 939 943 946 950 956 965 972 980 recommendations. Isn't that GREAT? It speaks to how many Democrats here are appalled by Hillary's bullshit.

Join me in recommending it. I'd like to see it hit 1000 :hug:

:woohoo:

[jjchvz]

107. Olbermann Proposes Taking Out Hillary! Video Clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv9FfZfegNg

[Catherina]

111. More videos by SantiagoJJJr "Barack Obama As - The Jerk"

What a jerk SantiagoJJJr is, don't you agree? His videos on Larry Sinclair are especially hilarious.

[AtomicKitten]

118. Take it up with the source of this degeneration into ugly: Hillary Clinton.

People are either parroting her bullshit or railing against it.

You do the math.

[KoKo]

119. The "source" of this hate is really Bush/Cheney and that our Dems have done nothing to Impeach them

or hold them accountable for ANY OF THEIR CRIMES... That's the hate. And, that hate has morphed over to Bill and Hillary because, in our minds, they somehow set us up for the HELL we've lived through under the Bush Crime Family.

I think we are playing into Repug hands...by taking our anger over all of this and putting it on Bill and Hillary's Backs. They deserve much of our wrath but the Repugs deserve it more and by allowing this to get projected onto the Clintons we play right into their hands for the Primaries and the General Election.

I know that the Clinton Presidency in the "rear view mirror" looks worse to us Dems than it did back in 2000 and there are many new folks here who don't remember how we Dems agonized over Al Gore having the election stolen from him and how we worked so hard to bring change supporting the NEW Internet...and the Liberal Web sites that sprung up. It's old news to many and old news to those of us who are so angry that Bush Crime family is never held accountable. But, trashing our fellow Dems...about Clintons only serves to hurt Dems who don't know "the rear view mirror" of the Clinton Presidency. It allows the McCorporate Media and Repugs to get great enjoyment about how they can star fights amongst us.

That's all I'm trying to say...and maybe I'm saying it badly but it's what I've observed...so just passing it along.

[AtomicKitten]

125. You've hit two different issues.

Of course, people are disgusted that the Dem Congress have let these asshats get away with their crimes. And that is separate from but dovetails into why it is so important that Barack be the nominee (other than the fact, of course, that it is impossible for him to lose his lead and Hillary refuses to accept her defeat). He will investigate and prosecute this administration; she will not. Her husband put the kibosh on the crimes of the prior Bush administration and it appears another Clinton is on deck to cover up for another Bush.

Point two. Hillary is running like a Republican against Barack. She is employing the worst tactics against a fellow Democrat, and that is unprecedented. Hillary deserves to be reviled. Not understanding why that is is precisely the division currently in the Democratic Party. We need to be honest with ourselves about the reality of what is going on.

Hillary is triangulating with the GOP against Barack. Scaife whom we railed against in the 1990s for tormenting the Clintons has endorsed her and is running ads on her behalf against Barack. Rush Limbaugh and other radio douchebags have Operation Chaos humming along to keep Clinton in the race because she's doing a fine job bloodying Barack up. McCain is sending out emails including to Dem supedelegates with 30-paragraphs arguing that Hillary is the stronger opponent.

Could it be any clearer that the GOP want her as the nominee? And worse, that Hillary is fine with playing along with it as a means to an end. It's pretty sick shit.

The truth is what stands between us and a real change in this country. I implore people here to look into their hearts and open their eyes. This is our chance to get it right. And if we don't, I can guarantee that after the last seven years of the current nightmare, the party will implode.

[KoKo]

128. How do you know that he will prosecute the Bushies?

That seems to be the hope from many of his supporters...that he will come in like a Patrick Fitzgerald and clean them all out and send them to jail..

Why would he do that? It's up to Congress to take care of them. Once he's in there, why shouldn't he do like Pelosi and Reid and say "we can't dwell on the past we have to look to the future." He will have too much on his plate with the problems Bush has left him and the folks behind Bush & Cheney are still out there with much power.

I would hope he will put in an Attorney Generial who will be better than Mukasey. But, I don't expect much because the Power Structure doesn't allow for big "housecleanings" from administration to administration.

We will see. And I agree about Hillary's campaign...that it's being run like a Repuglican but isn't it better for Obama to deal with Repug tactics NOW than later? You know that what Hillary throws at him isn't going to be any worse than what the Repugs and their Swiftboaters will do if she leaves the race or he becomes the nominee..

I really don't think either of them are the best candidates...which I've said over and over. But, one of them will survive and hopefully win. And will be better than what's in there now. I don't vote until May 6th...It's going to be a touch decision. Experience over Inexperience....
I probably lean towards Obama...with the way Hillary is conducting herself these days...and the Clinton baggage. But, I don't expect he's going to be able to do as much for real "change" that his supporters think.

:shrug:

[AtomicKitten]

138. here:

Obama would ask his AG to "immediately review" potential of crimes in Bush White House

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/attytood/Barack_on_torture.html

* snip *

I mentioned the report in my question, and said "I know you've talked about reconciliation and moving on, but there's also the issue of justice, and a lot of people -- certainly around the world and certainly within this country -- feel that crimes were possibly committed" regarding torture, rendition, and illegal wiretapping. I wanted to know how whether his Justice Department "would aggressively go after and investigate whether crimes have been committed."

Here's his answer, in its entirety:

What I would want to do is to have my Justice Department and my Attorney General immediately review the information that's already there and to find out are there inquiries that need to be pursued. I can't prejudge that because we don't have access to all the material right now. I think that you are right, if crimes have been committed, they should be investigated. You're also right that I would not want my first term consumed by what was perceived on the part of Republicans as a partisan witch hunt because I think we've got too many problems we've got to solve.

So this is an area where I would want to exercise judgment -- I would want to find out directly from my Attorney General -- having pursued, having looked at what's out there right now -- are there possibilities of genuine crimes as opposed to really bad policies. And I think it's important-- one of the things we've got to figure out in our political culture generally is distinguishing betyween really dumb policies and policies that rise to the level of criminal activity. You know, I often get questions about impeachment at town hall meetings and I've said that is not something I think would be fruitful to pursue because I think that impeachment is something that should be reserved for exceptional circumstances. Now, if I found out that there were high officials who knowingly, consciously broke existing laws, engaged in coverups of those crimes with knowledge forefront, then I think a basic principle of our Constitution is nobody above the law -- and I think that's roughly how I would look at it.

The bottom line is that: Obama sent a clear signal that -- unlike impeachment, which he's ruled out and which now seems a practical impossibility -- he is at the least open to the possibility of investigating potential high crimes in the Bush White House. To many, the information that waterboarding -- which the United States has considered torture and a violation of law in the past -- was openly planned out in the seat of American government is evidence enough to at least start asking some tough questions in January 2009.

[JuniperLea]

173. Did you even read that?

How is reviewing the information that is already there going to make a case against BushCo, when BushCo is in charge of what is already there? What Obama is saying here is he will only look at what is "out there" now... he isn't willing to look at any new information. He is creating his own loop hole here!

[AtomicKitten]

184. We all know there is plenty of info "out there," plenty to put the mo-fos in jail.

Just because the MSM hasn't focused on the evidence doesn't mean it hasn't already been reported in alternative media. Obama is being diplomatic within the confines of a campaign at the same time throwing his marker down on this.

[JuniperLea]

185. I disagree

He's giving himself an out, plain and simple.

I'm betting Clinton wouldn't nail BushCo either. I'm betting whomever wins the election sweeps all this under the carpet in the name of "healing the country". Wounds cannot heal until they are thoroughly scrubbed clean... that is never going to happen. No matter which candidate wins.

[AtomicKitten]

187. My money is on the fella that taught Constitutional Law and was the Civil Rights attorney.

Obama has managed to lift the veil of pessimism for some, not for others.

I am hopeful. Sue me. :D

[JuniperLea]

189. Well the words he chose in the article you cite

Do nothing to convince me, that's for sure.

[Texas Hill Country]

130. thank you.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

132. we are truly looking more like freeperville here daily

[frickaline]

137. disgusting. maybe they were republicans in disguise? seems more their MO

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

139. What Do You Expect From Knee Jerk Ignorant Thoughtless Immature Jackasses?

I'm not surprised one bit.

[JuniperLea]

153. LOL... you forgot

Weak and simple minded Kool Aid swillers;)

[AtomicKitten]

142. Nah, I think the attempted censorship of others through brow-beating is a new low.

Now I didn't do what you are wagging your finger over, but I support the right of free speech. That is the beauty and real test of free speech - allowing others to say things we don't like without trying to shut them down.

[frickaline]

146. dont you think thats what these name-callers were trying to do? shut people down?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a supporter of free speech, but not when the intent is insulting specific individuals or attempting to silence them. I think name-calling here was an attempt at both those things and I'd denounce that.

[AtomicKitten]

148. of course not

They are expressing their frustration and deep feelings about what is going on. That may manifest itself in name-calling which can be construed as bad manners but falls well within the parameters of free speech.

It is summarily passing judgment on other's words and trying to shut down the source that is censorship. I hate it when the GOP snivels incessantly with their letter-writing demands to muzzle people and have them fired, and I hate it when Dems vis a vis the Clinton campaign and supporters emulate that short-sighted, undemocratic, unconstitutional behavior.

[JuniperLea]

161. Name calling is not allowed on DU, and name calling is not the same as racism

Calling someone white trash is racism against everyone.

[frickaline]

162. cant agree with you there

No where have I seen anyone advocating a form of censorship. It seems to me they are just encouraging people to speak out against bad behavior. By your definition, that's not censorship, its just more free speech.

Maybe I'm missing something about the censorship part, feel free to fill me in on where that's coming from.

[JuniperLea]

154. Free speech does not include racism

Calling someone white trash is saying they are not to be confused with the regular variety of trash that only comes in shades of black and brown. Free speech does not include the n word either, or yelling fire in a movie theater.

[AtomicKitten]

159. Sorry, but it includes ALL speech short of screaming "fire."

When you get into the weeds trying to rationalize why these words or those words are beyond the pale, you lose the truth and reality of what free speech is. The real test of free speech is supporting it even when it is speech that makes your ears bleed.

[JuniperLea]

163. No it doesn't

Racism is not protected.

[AtomicKitten]

165. It's your interpretation that it's racism (moot) - The SC disagrees with your conclusion & remedy

Just being pissed off at what others say doesn't give people license to demand they be fired from their jobs and worse. That is an unreasonable kneejerk reaction that seems perfectly reasonable to you but, in fact, is an unconstitutional remedy (short of it being a contractual error).

On edit: I made no comment about this particular bit of brouhaha de jour that has you up in arms, however, that said, I believe free speech is an umbrella that applies to everyone. We will have to agree to disagree on this.

[JuniperLea]

168. The courts do recognize verbal racism

That's why we have special prosecution of hate crimes... spoken racism being the turning point.

[AtomicKitten]

172. hate crimes are actions, not speech & the courts, in fact, do not recognize them as one in the same

[JuniperLea]

174. Read again

Jeez.

Violent crimes become hate crimes when racist slurs are uttered.

[AtomicKitten]

178. you are trying to pass off a mitigating factor in sentencing as the crime itself

it is not

[JuniperLea]

183. No, I'm not... read the convo again...

Jeez

[frickaline]

180. that I agree with - they let the Nazi party march and speak, theres an example, however

however I'm still not seeing actual censorship anywhere.

[gsaguyCLW54]

145. As a piece of white trash....

.....I say sticks and stones.

[JuniperLea]

160. White trash... as opposed to...

What?

[gsaguyCLW54]

166. I guess Im white trash.....

...since I support Hillary. or I could have a post graduate degree and a household income over $100,000...not sure which one

[GoldieAZ49]

149. bottom feeders

indefensible

[ItNerd4life]

150. Sticks and stones may break my bones

but whips and chains excite me. Oops, wrong forum, sorry.

I do agree, it is pretty pathetic.

[MoonRiver]

156. I think RR must be a closet Repuke.

She's working so hard to make sure we have another one in the WH. :puke:

[JuniperLea]

164. Yep

She has quite the nerve saying Hillary is damaging the party, when it's the incessant whining of her and her ilk that is actually doing the damage and turning people off on Democrats.

[Writer]

158. I agree, I agree. But with a caveat...

they're posting about "groin squirrels" over in the lounge...

[ClericJohnPreston]

167. Unfortunately

the people you're addressing in your OP have cognitive dissonance and will NEVER be able to see the extremes of their viewpoint.

I predicted this awhile back. The EXTREMES of adoration poured irrationality into Obama, a flawed candidate, demands a balancing of the psychological equation; so, total hate must be directed at Hillary.

Simple physics 101: For every action, there must be an equal and opposite reaction.

Obamatons and their cultist groupthink don't permit rational discussion.

[JuniperLea]

169. Alas, I agree

Much like chastising someone for the splinter in their eye while not seeing the board in their own. The "you are either with us or against us" meme is so tiring... I thought we were ridding ourselves of that mentality by rallying against BushCo. Not so, it seems. Unfortunate.

[EFerrari]

181. What a silly and extreme generalization.

Physician, heal thyself.

[Kurovski]

182. IMO, It is a racist statement in that it implies all other races are already trash.

People don't always mean to say that, but the implication is there when you think about it.

I hope Randi would mull that thought over before ever using it again.

Maybe in Florida it's used without a second thought. But maybe a second thought might be in order.

Please. Try to leave all of DU out of it. "New low", That's way too broad a statement. DU is never of one mind.

[JuniperLea]

186. I never said all of DU had hit that low

Merely that the lowest end of the margin has been stretched lower than I ever thought could happen on a supposedly progressive and liberal site.

[Kurovski]

188. You are correct.

My mistake.

[JuniperLea]

190. So nice to see a gentle person

So rare to see someone say they were mistaken. I'm humbled, and honored.

[Kurovski]

191. Well, you're a good kid Juniperx,

and always have been as far back as I can recall.

I hope most of DUers can forgive one another the present craziness and again honor the past we have with each other. Many have all along. I've been a jerk many times. And probably will be some more.

But I'm getting weary of...my self! :D

[JuniperLea]

198. Thanks for the kind words, Kurovski

Interestingly enough, the recent chaos has done some good in that regard. I now have a DU pal who, had we been face to face, would have joined me in some hair pulling more than a few times:) We found so much common ground recently that we are now great pals, and I couldn't be happier. I'm hoping this is a trend that is recurring behind the DU scene.

We do have a lot to be thankful for here. Honor the past, indeed.

:toast:

[BootinUp]

194. They do read them and they laugh hysterically I assume.

I really like many things about DU, the angry fights that are based soley on groundless emotions are not one of them.

[IsItJustMe]

201. It only tells me that people here can go as low as Hillary. Just another day