Interesting point about Clark's appeal across party lines

[Sparkly]

A USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll taken last week showed that North Carolina Sen. John Edwards drew the most enthusiasm among Democrats as a potential running mate, for instance. But retired general Wesley Clark's appeal was spread more evenly across party lines. There was less difference in Clark's level of support between Republicans and Democrats than for Edwards or Missouri Rep. Dick Gephardt.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/2004-06-29-kerry-minorities_x.htm

[Richardo]

1. That's one of the reasons we liked him for President in the first place...

ONE of the reasons. :)

[cosmokramer]

2. Which is exactly the point so many of us were trying to make.

Kerry / Clark WINS in 2004.

:kick:

[lancdem]

3. That is interesting

Dems would vote for Kerry anyway, so someone who can draw independent and Repub voters makes a lot of sense.

[Scoopie]

39. Exactly

Despite what some people on this board think, there are a great many of us Independents out here: many have become disillusioned with the far reaches of both parties.
I won't sit here and tell you that neo-conservatives will vote for anyone but Bush, but I know quite a few traditional conservatives who would love to have Clark on the ticket.
Just... shhhhhh.... don't tell them that he's actually more liberal than Kerry or Dean. ;)

[bowens43]

4. This is exactly why mainstream Dems didn't want Clark for Pres.

We don't need anyone who appeals too republicans. Moving to far to the center is what got us into this mess in the first place. All we need to do to win is get our voters to the polls. We out number them and the independents are leaning decidedly toward voting for Kerry.

[Sparkly]

5. Tell it to Michael Moore and George McGovern

I'm sure they'd be interested to know the candidate they endorsed is "too far to the center."

Did you ever hear any of Clark's proposals? Hardly "too far to the center."

[cosmokramer]

6. Bullshit. We DO, in fact, need someone who appeals to the GOP moderates..

...and indies--and we will not win without them. There are not more of 'us' than there are of 'them'--that simply is not true. Our base will vote for the ticket, no matter who is on it. We need indies and some moderate GOP voters. It is just plain stupid to say we don't 'need' people other than Dems to vote, and if GOP want to vote for our party, I WELCOME THEM! This in no way means we are moving toward the center--check Clark's background: He is as liberal as Kerry.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

7. Mainstream Dems?

I would think these "mainstream" Dems you speak of ARE the ones that "got us into this mess in the first place". Mainstream Dems ARE the moderate, almost-centrist Paul Begalas of the world. The people at DU are not your average Democrat.

[Adelante]

8. It's peculiar

In the primaries Dean was viewed as a leftist while he is a centrist. Clark is still viewed as a centrist while he is fairly leftist. I never understand quite how that works. Anyway, I hadn't seen the poll cited in the article, but more than two-thirds of Democrats would be either "enthusiastic" or "satisfied" if Clark were named VP. Edwards and Gephardt have clearer support among the Dems polled, but this isn't bad on Clark, either. I want to see the entire polling now.

Mainstream Dem here, 38 years :hi:

[MontecitoDem]

9. He appeals to them purely because he served his country

the policies and ideas he has offered are more liberal than most of the democratic primary opponents, imo.

This true-blue liberal thinks he's fantastic!

[TexasSissy]

32. I did.

[cosmokramer]

35. Is this why all the mainstream Dems in Ohio...

...flooded the Sec. of State with delegate applications for him? Is this why Clark is the only person to fill all his delegate slots in the state of Ohio? (Dean fell one shy, but was close).

"Main Stream Dems" were sold on Clark for Pres., but alas, we didn't get to have a say. Clark did just fine with mainstream dems, so your argument is not only ridiculous, it is without merit.

[PATRICK]

10. Listening to GOP people against Bush

So far it is looking good they will leave the Presidential choice blank- at least. In order to get any of them to actually vote for Kerry is an uphill thing for any Veep choice. Perhaps the whole McCain thing was to shake up the electorate and get them thinking about it so when real candidates were offered in secret polling they would be ripe for temptation.

In any event this is one reason why I will trust Kerry's choice is based on judgments for which we do not have resources to fairly second guess. It is looking very bad for Bush if his own base is starting to commit NOT to vote for him. That's a step. I can't imagine how he can possibly overcome his negatives that have plunged him almost permanently behind his LOSING margin in 2000. Where are his new voters?
Where is the discouragement or rifts or third party challenges to negatively affect Kerry?

A crushing mandate is needed since the makeup of Congress is an uphill barrier even big coattails cannot overcome in one election cycle.

So this is an interesting idea and an example of the sound planning Kerry must be doing, NOT dissing ideologies or personalities. I would be almost 100% positive it would be Edwards or Clark from the little we glimpse of the factors. Let's learn to live with the choice regardless?

[Adelante]

15. Kerry gets to choose, that's the bottom line

He will make his decision based on his own reasoning and I have never had a problem with that. I would prefer a VP with foreign policy/national security weight, but that's just me. I am 100% behind Kerry's ticket whoever is on it ultimately.

[grannyfran]

11. Experience, service and common sense.

Those are the three criteria that my Repub friends and neighbors cite as the reasons they like Clark. I got them to sign Clark candidacy petitions easily. Even though he's pretty liberal in outlook, he's able to articulate his liberalism with a common sense and compassionate approach that actually is heard by people who aren't blinded by the right.

[democratreformed]

12. You put that into words so well, grannyfran

I often think things but can't find the right words to articulate them. His common sense and rational explanations of his more liberal postions ARE what attract so many to him. And his compassion is very striking indeed!

[Tom Rinaldo]

14. Remember the "Rock the Vote" Debate?

Where Clark explained how he would appeal to conservatives to fully embrace our country's Gay and Lesbian "Sons and Daughters", giving them all of the civil rights and opportunities they would want for their own children? That was a perfect example of that. It was simple and elegant and just made so much damn sense, it went right past the ideological divides to where people actually live.

[Adelante]

16. That was unbelievable, Tom

I saw him do something similar in an American Legion post in NH full of white people, where he spoke of the legions of young black men denied their civil rights in prison. There is no more complicated issue than this one, but he does not shy away from loaded issues. It's one of the most impressive things about Wes; he just says what he believes wherever he may be. And in this case, he was the one who opened it up, he was not responding to a question. I almost fell off my chair and have never forgotten it.

[democratreformed]

17. Oh, yeah, I remember it well.

It was so beautiful. The way that he brought "personal" into the issue. I think that's what gets people to thinking. He is a master, IMO, of getting people to think and consider certain positions.

[cosmokramer]

25. Yes! It was incredible, and full of compassion!

[julialnyc]

21. That was the most perfect explanation of him!

"His common sense and rational explanations of his more liberal positions ARE what attract so many to him."


He makes liberal a less scary word for people, because he can talk in a way where liberal=rational.
Do you remember him on Bill Maher before he announced he would run fro President where Bill Maher wanted to point out that Clark on CNN was the first person to say that Liberal isn't a dirty word and should be thought of more like liberty not extremism.

[democratreformed]

26. Reason and logic were the things that first caught my attention.

It was so soothing during those chaotic "first days of the war" coverage to listen to a person who was actually reasonable and logical.

[democratreformed]

13. Saw a reference to this on my local news this morning.

Ginger Gadsen says it might just put him "over the top".

[cosmokramer]

19. Cool!

:kick:

[Raiden]

18. I like Clark

As I've said several times, I would be satisfied with Clark or Edwards.

[WI_DEM]

20. by 80-16 dems and dem leaners would be enthusiastic/satisfied with Edwards

by 67-30 they would be the same with Clark. 32% of respondents would be enthusiastic about Edwards as Kerry's running mate compared to 16% for Gen. Clark.

[democratreformed]

22. So, count me as part of that 16%.

Thanks!

[WI_DEM]

23. i'm glad your enthusiastic for your candidate

but in reading over the story of this poll the real story is that democrats/democrat leaners are much more enthusiastic for Edwards than the other candidates in the mix for VP.

[democratreformed]

24. I understand that and I respect their opinion.

Thank you again.

[Tom Rinaldo]

27. Enthusiasm over potential VP candidates

is a much over rated commodity, and that includes my enthusiasm for Clark. Enthusiasm over a definite Presidential candidate is much more important, and even that fluctuates wildly until the dynamics of a race get fully set. Mondale was beating Reagan after the Democratic Convention. Democrats were very enthusiastic at that moment in time. If you go by polls, most Americans were pretty enthusiastic about George W. until fairly recently.

It's early. Democrats (the overwhelming majority) will become "enthusiastic" over who ever Kerry picks, after that persons name and story gets out there. Diffuse enthusiasm among Democrats is not that high a priority for the VP to bring to the table at this stage. Broadening the overall appeal of the ticket - beyond core Democrats, strongly adding to the strength of the ticket in one or more states, helping establish a agreed upon image for the ticket, adding targeted appeal to certain groups that the Presidential candidate may not have the best ins with, being skilled at taking on the attack dog function, having a good working relationship with the Presidential nominee, and being the right person to lead the nation if anything happens to the President, THAT is what counts at this point.

[Adelante]

30. Actually, no

We already knew about the Dem enthusiasm for Edwards. It was pointed out on another thread in terms of this particular poll and repeatedly in many other threads. The rest of the polling information was new to me at least. Democrats will vote for Kerry no matter who his running mate is certainly. The real story is who the crossovers will vote for. This article does not play it that way, it's true.

[RafterMan]

29. Misread your stat

Oops.

[julialnyc]

28. New Kerry Ad Reaches Out to Non-Democrats

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20040630/ap_on_el_pr/adwatch_kerry
New Kerry Ad Reaches Out to Non-Democrats

[mia]

31. thanks for the news!

I'm heading over to Kerry's website to see the new ad.

[Doosh]

33. so I guess this means

Clark has appeal across party lines because the Repubs REALLY WANT HIM AS VP! HE'LL WEAKEN THE TICKET AND ASSURE A BUSH VICTORY! WE'RE PLAYING RIGHT INTO THERE HANDS!


sound crazy to you?

[Qutzupalotl]

34. Yes.

But then, you're deliberately misstating things.

Republican VOTERS respect Clark, and would consider crossing party lines to put him in office, especially if they're dissatisfied with Bush--and there are a lot who are.

The Republican LEADERSHIP see this prospect, and worry that their base is eroding.

[grannyfran]

36. Right, you are.

I've got a neighbor who's a 74-year old, fairly-wealthy farmer. He's never voted for a Democrat in his life, until the primary when he voted for Wes Clark. He proudly wore his Clark '04 button on his coat while he drove around in his old pick up with the "Impeach Clinton - And Her Husband, Too" bumper sticker. He said he hated Bush and wanted to see someone in office that was actually more interested in running the country properly instead of politically, even if it meant he would have to vote for a Democrat. What we have to learn as Democrats is to differentiate between the Repug Party and the Republican voters, and find a way to appeal to the ones who still have the country's best interest at heart.

[cosmokramer]

37. You hit the nail on the head!

:kick:

[JI7]

38. this should increase Clark's chances of being picked vp

after all Kerry won the primary because he did well among the democratic party base. among minorities, women, jews, unions and others which help make up the democratic party base. this is where he is VERY strong in. he did pretty well among non democratic voters also but not as well as he did among the base. and to win he needs to reach out to others. if clark can help him here then it would be a good thing.

[cosmokramer]

40. Agreed. We need the Base and THEN SOME!

I don't want election night to be a nailbiter...I want it to be a landslide.

[Sparkly]

41. You and me both!

I want that Chimp to go out in a humiliating defeat.