Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

And so it starts....Obama/Ayres...

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
HardWorkingDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 12:20 PM
Original message
And so it starts....Obama/Ayres...
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9730.html

What every Dem follower should realize, so many of the most damaging aspects of presidential campaigns start with a scalpel and not a meat cleaver. Recall, during the Dukakis campaign, it was Al Gore that first brought up Willie Horton. During the Gore campaign it was fellow Democrats that brought up Gore's ill-perceived problem with telling the truth. Then it was Kerry's own words about 87 billion.

Now we have a conservative asshole that started this with a whisper into golden boy George Stephanopolus' ear to ask about this guy during the ABC debate. And now it starts and will continue to grow. Here is what Obama's main campaign man had to say...

"David Axelrod, Obama's chief strategist, says in the forthcoming issue of Newsweek that the campaign is planning to expand its research and rapid-response team in part to counteract charges about Ayers."

Jesus. No shit.

People here attacked me as being a tool of the right wing machine, a freeper and a chicken little for asking about the Ayers story. One of the main reasons I asked was I had never heard about this guy and it was brought up by a HRC supporter. I am still stunned at some of the statements people made. It's like we never learned anything from the Gore or Kerry campaign about how vicious the right is when it comes to presidential politics.

People, this story HAS legs. In the climate of irrational fear in the US it is naive to think the right is going to go lightly into the night on this story.

So, with that...who does McCain associate with that can embarrass him?

I'll start...even though they are different, it is obvious the Keating Five issue greatly angers McCain, so that needs to be brought up every single time this Ayers name is uttered.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. "Recall, during the Dukakis campaign, it was Al Gore that first brought up Willie Horton."
Edited on Sun Apr-20-08 12:25 PM by boloboffin
LIARS.

http://www.dailyhowler.com/h122299_1.shtml

That is from 19-fucking-99. That damn lie is about to celebrate a decade of existence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HardWorkingDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
36. You are correct....he didn't bring up Horton, but he did bring up..
the revolving door appearance of criminals in Mass. My error.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
56. Oh, crap. I didn't click over. I thought you were quoting Politico.
I apologize for inadvertantly calling you a name.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #56
70. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. this does not have legs
unless people choose for it to have legs

I'm not saying ignore it but it's been addressed

why let crap like this distract from the real issues

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. It will be a media darling for as long as they can keep it alive.
But, the reality is that it contains nothing of any lasting impact.

Ayres has been making positive contributions lately, and Obama was a pre-teen when Ayres was being a problem.

Non-starter.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
60. The broadcast media determines the life of any 'story". They will decide.
If they want it to go for 8 months, they will.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. Amen to that. Reverend Wright is a case in point.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. They are, and will, choose for it to have legs.
Regular folks don't like idiots who blow things up. Saying Obama was only 8 yrs old at the time is a NON-response. He continued to associate with Ayers, took campaign contributions from him, attended a fundraiser in his home. Ayers is unrepentant and wishes he'd done more.

You can ignore it if you choose, but this, on top of all the other crap (Wright, etc.) will make the moderate independents whose votes you are taking for granted quite squeamish. Ignore it at your peril.

Bake
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. One of the reasons
Senators have such a hard time getting elected president is because of the scrutiny of all the votes they've cast, their associates, their fundraising, and on and on.

THe Democrats need to be sifting through McCain's record, associates, money trail. No one in this climate is ever innocent. If guilt by association is the game they want to play then the Democrats have to be willing to play it hard.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kevinbgoode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm sorry, but the American people and media are not allowed
to ask about McCain's "character" issue - cuz he was a POW and wore a uniform and anyone running as a Republican is a "hero."

We aren't even allowed to ask about his time as a POW, unless it is to glorify him as another annointed-by-God candidate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
featherman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. This story has no legs with the public... minor kerfuffle of interest to RW

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. Just like the swiftboaters story had no legs with the public either.
Wake up and smell the coffee. Just like Willie Horton didn't interest the public.

Bake
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. I agree. It will only get people excited that wern't going to vote for Obama anyway. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. What Obama said.
"Obama said at the debate: This is a guy who lives in my neighborhood, who's a professor of English in Chicago who I know and who I have not received some official endorsement from. He's not somebody who I exchange ideas from on a regular basis. And the notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8 years old, somehow reflects on me and my values doesn't make much sense.

Obama will be fine. The election will focus on the record of the last eight years, a record that McCain will be forced to alternately defend and denounce, and the befuddled McCain's campaign will get weaker by the day as soon as the focus is on Obama v McCain.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Republicans like to attack people's patriotism, in case you haven't noticed
Edited on Sun Apr-20-08 12:57 PM by PurityOfEssence
If they get in a tizzy about Nadhmi Auchi (old friend--literally--of Saddam Hussein's) being Rezko's Sugar Daddy, it can all get mighty ugly in a hurry. You're going to see Wright's "God Damn America" so many times it'll hurt. You'll see both Michelle's speech with the "...really proud..." line as well as the speech she gave before this where she simply said "proud". Then there's Raila Odinga and the church burning. They might even toss in Farrakhan for fun. Then there's that "clinging to religion" bit to top off the theme that he's against everything good and wholesome. How many people did those Weather Underground bombs kill?

These guys are ruthless, and not being prepared for it because the reverence for some new Messiah causes supporters to shout down any reasonable analysis of potential dangers is foolhardy.

Time and time again Obama supporters start off rebuttals with the fatuous pronouncement "Obama said..." as if every word from his mouth is by definition unassailable truth. It isn't. He's grossly misrepresented on many occasions, and even if this doesn't make him appreciably worse than the garden variety politician, it certainly HAS happened repeatedly, and should tarnish his godlike image of transcendent perfection. More importantly, even if so many of his acolytes take his word as the literal gospel, THE REST OF THE WORLD DOESN'T, AND YOU HAVE TO CONVINCE THEM TO VOTE FOR HIM. I'll vote for him if it comes to that, but I'm not your problem. Your problem is the sizable middle and disgruntled members of your own party. We don't just accept the outrageous poppycock he comes up with on a regular basis, and "he said it" doesn't just glaze us over and get us rhythmically swaying and chanting some mantra of spiritual fulfillment. In fact, the hero-worship appeal turns many of us off in a serious way, and even for those who are apt to be suckered by the the bandwagon approach of star frenzy, the whole thing crashes to the ground when certain cynical inconsistencies are brought to light. We love our idols in this country, but we love their comeuppances, too.

If you're going to sway others about this guy, continually reminding us that he "said" something isn't proof; it works for the already swayed, but not for the skeptics.

Think of it this way: everyone inclined to be swept away with cult-like love for this guy already has been.

(edited for grammar)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
54. The only way to counteract BS from concern trolls is a good offense-the only defense is good offense
Concern trolls have no clue how to run a campaign,
they are intentionally giving bad advice to a candidate
they want to lose to put up a patsy, just like in 2004.

Go after McCain. Drawing attention to your candidates
own faults or apologizing for McCarthyesque guilt by
association smears is not how you defend against those
allegations. Going after McCain's associations is.

You will not hear the concern trolls agree with any
part of this message. If they do, it means they are
sincere about Obama winning.

If they say, "But, but these allegations must be spread
and discussed..."

tell them What Part of our ASS are they speaking to
when they say "but" because they are showing their own.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
7. he was 8 years old at the time
Is Hillary really this desperate?

How pathetic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Was Obama 8 years old on 9/11 when Ayres said he wished they had done more damage?
or did he continue his association?

Same for Wright and his comments the Sunday after 9/11.


I know Obama says he 'didn't know' really if he is so clueless about the people he has invited into his life I don't want him making decisions.


Not that I believe he didn't know, he is smarter than that.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. that's a pretty pathetic stretch
judging a person by another person's words.

Hasn't worked for Hillary so far.. but keep it up.
It makes the Clinton team look like real narrowminded twits.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Please Goldie don't twist the facts to try and make a point


His interview was published prior to the attacks. He never said that he wished he had more bombing. He was never convicted of a crime.

These are the facts.


Beyond that you are using the rightwing's oldest tactice against progressives - guilt by association. Judge Obama on what he says and does not the progressive friends that his work on prorgessive issues brings him into contact with.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ayers


In 2001, Ayers published Fugitive Days: A Memoir. Ayers's interview with the New York Times about his book was published, by historical coincidence, on September 11, 2001,<5> and opens with his statement, "I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough."<4> Ayers later explained that by "no regrets" he meant that he didn't regret his efforts to oppose the Vietnam War, and that "we didn't do enough" meant that efforts to stop the war were obviously inadequate as it dragged on for a decade; the two statements were not intended to elide into a wish they had set more bombs.<6> The interview also includes his reaction (in his book) to Emile De Antonio's 1976 documentary film about the Weathermen: "He was 'embarrassed by the arrogance, the solipsism, the absolute certainty that we and we alone knew the way. The rigidity and the narcissism."<4> New Politics reviewer Jesse Lemisch has contrasted Ayers's recollections with those of other Weathermen and has alleged serious factual errors.<7> Ayers, in the foreward to his book, states it was written as his personal memories and impressions over time, not a scholarly research project.<4> His history occasionally surfaces, as when he was asked not to attend a progressive educators' conference in the fall of 2006 on the basis that the organizers did not want to risk an association with his past<8>.




Ayers is currently a Distinguished Professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, College of Education. His interests include teaching for social justice, urban educational reform, narrative and interpretive research, children in trouble with the law, and related issues.<1>

He has edited and written many books and articles on education theory, policy and practice, and has appeared on many panels and symposia. He was tapped by Mayor Richard M. Daley to shape Chicago's now nationally-renowned school reform program.<2>

His degrees include a B.A. from the University of Michigan in American Studies (1968), an M.Ed from Bank Street College in Early Childhood Education, an M.Ed from Teachers College, Columbia University in Early Childhood Education (1987) and an Ed.D from Columbia University in Curriculum and Instruction (1987).<1>


Philanthropy
Ayers has also served on the board of the Woods Fund of Chicago, a anti-poverty philanthropic foundation, since 1999. United States Senator and Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama served on the same board from 1999 to 2002.<3>

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
35. Well, grantcart - I'm thinking ya can't talk to some folks like they were
Edited on Sun Apr-20-08 01:49 PM by cliffordu
Democrats. I'm thinking some folks here CONSTANTLY push Republican talking points....


:patriot:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #35
51. The problem is that these talking points are what the Clintons are working on
and Clinton supporters are trying to be good and loyal so they end up trying to make them work. Its not their fault that the Clinton campaign isn't giving them more to work with.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #51
59. I'm not completely convinced that all of them are Clinton
supporters - I'm not convinced all are even Democrats.

If it were me, I'd have operatives on this board throwing stuff against the wall to see what gains traction within the Democratic voters -

Like Rove would do. Looking for the most virulent meme possible.

It would save a LOT of time this fall and could be done by volunteers.

There have been a LOT of extremely poisonous innuendo posted here lately....

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HardWorkingDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
45. And George Bush and Dick Cheney will most likely never be convicted of a crime, does...
this make what they have done any less wrong?

I'm sorry, but trying to deal with this issue by trying to rehabilitate this man's past with what he is today will do Obama no good.

Obama and his campaign MUST deal with this early and strong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #15
64. Thanks Grant for the additional info
particularly this:

"I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough."<4> Ayers later explained that by "no regrets" he meant that he didn't regret his efforts to oppose the Vietnam War, and that "we didn't do enough" meant that efforts to stop the war were obviously inadequate as it dragged on for a decade; the two statements were not intended to elide into a wish they had set more bombs.


I appreciate it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #64
73. And how again is that Obama's fault?
I'm failing to make the connection, or why you're trying to push a RW/Rove talking point that doesn't make sense, but invokes fear in some.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 12:58 PM
Original message
Wow. You have walked off the deep end.
Ayers said that he wished he had done more to end the war, the vietnam war, in an essay that happened to be published on 9-11 but that had nothing to do with 9-11. We all wish we could have done more to end that war. Those of us still alive wish we could do more to end this Really Bad War as well.

Wright said that by the standards expressed in the New Testament, God would damn America for the way it acts in the world. The point he was making was that 9-11 did not happen in a vacuum but was a direct consequence of the way we act in the world. They do not hate us for 'our freedom', they attack us because we have spent the last 50 years attacking them. If we do not understand why muslim terrorists attacked us on 9-11 our response will be and has been stupid and will and has made the problem worse.

Keep the rightwing framing going though, it certainly clears the air around here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
55. Jesus would have been jailed for Vandalizing a Bank and Inciting to Riot and probably assassinated
Were he alive today.

He would also be considered a tax resister, an anti-war agitator, and a communist (in the literal sense of the term).

Human standards of behavior are too hypocritical to accomodate a heavy dose of realism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. More specious bullshit.
Edited on Sun Apr-20-08 01:32 PM by cliffordu
Thanks, GoldieAZ49 for taking even YOUR intellectually corrupt 'arguments' to a new low.

It ain't going to work - the race baiting, the Pastorbating the Ayers baiting -

Don't you even READ what the truth is before you post this bullshit??


OR:

Is it just paraphrasing the hate emails you get from Ralph Reed??

The letter by Ayers was actually printed on the night of the 10th, for the dawn edition of the 11th of Sept.

I think you know this but just don't care.

Be sure to take everything out of context so you get maximum hatred for the lie.

SO: Will you be leaving right after she steps down or are you going to hang around till the General Election??



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
38. Ayers said that? Or you pulled it out of your ass?
Ayers did not say that. More bullshit from you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ecdab Donating Member (834 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. My goodness - Hillary supporters are pulling pure Right Wing Bull
Shit out. I mean pure. Time for some folks to get invitations to leave DU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ecdab Donating Member (834 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
41. Ayers said he wished they had done more - to stop the Vietnam War
but the GOP thanks you for spreading their right wing bull shit for them. Talk about clueless - why don't you take a look in the mirror and see the intellectually dishonest clown that stares back at you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
48. Besides that being a lie....it is a RW smear tactic to damn others by association.
Maybe you don't really belong on the DU? :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pavlovs DiOgie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
62. That's a complete lie
Ayers NEVER said that he wishes THEY had done more damage on 9/11. He said he wished HE had done more to end the Vietnam War. Stop spreading the ridiculous lies that fly around FR.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
75. who me one incident of Obama being with Ayers AFTER 9/11
proof please... link... anything.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. It started in February when Clinton was pumping it to the media
February was when Politico published its first hit piece on Obama and Ayers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. Serving on a board togther vs your husband giving members of said group pardons.........
which is more damning?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. exchanging ideas with someone that bombed America is
Obama:" He's not somebody who I exchange ideas from on a regular basis."

So how often do they exchange ideas? and about what?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/DemocraticDebate/Story?i...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
30. Are you really Ralph Reed??
Edited on Sun Apr-20-08 01:46 PM by cliffordu

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
39. love your wingnut shit. not. go to freeperville with that crap.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
49. You are so full of shit...
...how can you stand to be around yourself?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
50. From the Woods Fund
Glad you asked. http://www.woodsfund.org /

"MISSION & CORE PRINCIPLES
Woods Fund of Chicago is a grantmaking foundation whose goal is to increase opportunities for less advantaged people and communities in the metropolitan area, including the opportunity to shape decisions affecting them. The foundation works primarily as a funding partner with nonprofit organizations. Woods supports nonprofits in their important roles of engaging people in civic life, addressing the causes of poverty and other challenges facing the region, promoting more effective public policies, reducing racism and other barriers to equal opportunity, and building a sense of community and common ground.

The Woods Fund has a strong belief in the need for and effectiveness of including the less advantaged in the entire process of addressing issues that affect them. To this end, the Woods Fund encourages and supports organizations and initiatives that promote participatory policy making by reaching out to their less advantaged constituencies. Such efforts should involve the less advantaged in identifying and defining the issues that face them, and in forming effective solutions to these problems.

The Woods Fund believes that encouraging a close, learning-based partnership with its grantees can further the causes of Chicagos less advantaged residents and communities. All grantees of the Woods Fund are expected to engage in a learning partnership. Through this partnership, the Woods Fund expects that grantees will share best practices and successes with the Woods Fund and fellow grantees, as well as those challenges that impede effective implementation. This powerful collaboration has the potential to inform the Woods Fund's grantmaking process and to educate the nonprofit community and others about ideas and strategies that they may successfully adopt."

This is the connection between Obama and Ayer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GoesTo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #50
58. Why does the Woods Fund hate America?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Giving the pardons by a mile.nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. I didn't think Hillary could pardon ANYBODY.
I'll have to go look that one up in the Constitution and see where it says the First Lady has the power to pardon.

Bake
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Doesn't matter. If your husband pardoned a terrorist you are toast.
Edited on Sun Apr-20-08 01:11 PM by Quixote1818
If Hillary got the nomination the Republicans would go NUTS over that. They would be relentless. In Obama's case it just won't stick because they just said hello to one another. Big fucking deal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Isn't that part of her 35 years of "experience", or does that not count in Hillaryland?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ecdab Donating Member (834 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. Yeah but she associates with people that give pardons to terrorists
and isn't guilt by association the end all and be all of the point you are making?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #24
72. Which association is closer?
Obama <---> Ayers

H.Clinton <---> B.Clinton


:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bensthename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
17. Also Obama bought gum once from a store clerk that was a felon
Oh shit.. If the GOP get ahold of this he is toast.. :scared:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
18. Obama/Ayers 2008
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
31. Hillary/Vince Foster 2008.
See? anyone can be hateful!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
22. When he was 2, John McCain met Adolf Hitler in Panama in a secret meeting.
Hitler's ghost told me so. :D


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
23. So happy to see McSame bringing up a non-story 7 months before the election
Edited on Sun Apr-20-08 01:10 PM by zulchzulu
Repigs looking for distractions will be more than happy to see the Ayers thing as an "issue".

What they won't like will be how anti-McCain Vietnam POW 527s will be attacking him for being a traitor while held as a POW (I don't support it, but it's coming , folks) as well as McCain's integral role as a cheat with the Keating Five scandal, causing millions of dollars to be paid by taxpayers.

There's plenty more to smash McCain into the mud if he wants to play dirty. He may want to change his tune... Looking at his interview with GeorgieBoy today, he's just one verb away from exploding into a classic rage tantrum that will show him to be a hotheaded asshole.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HardWorkingDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
37. Go back and re-exam past presidential elections...
this is how it starts. Small at first and then bigger until it swallows up all else.

I just love how Duers seem to constantly let their guard down when it comes to the conservative, white male mind when it comes to winning elections.

Let me be blunt: those fuckers don't care about integrity, laws or the US Constitution. I would be willing to bet anyone around here a case of my favorite beer that this is going to be how it goes:

Slowly start to paint Obama not as a liberal, but as a far, far out radical. Hell, they'll show he hangs with all sorts of undesirables unless he can hit back with some sort of negating counter punch. But watch, when he is the nominee, these white conservatives will be scaring the rest of their ilk into believing Obama will pick the most radical of black Americans to fill his cabinet. Then they will traipse out all sorts of ads depicting all of this fearful crap.

And recall, this Ayers fellow wasn't accused of pranks or petty acts of disobedience. He and his wife were accused of bombing the Pentagon. Think of the ads contrasting that with 9/11.

And if you think I'm over stating this, just remember Max Cleland.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #37
68. Polls have already shown that the Ayers "story" doesn't stick...
Maybe you missed what Mayor Daley said about this "issue":

STATEMENT OF MAYOR RICHARD M. DALEY REGARDING SENATOR BARACK OBAMAS RELATIONSHIP WITH BILL AYERS:

There are a lot of reasons that Americans are angry about Washington politics. And one more example is the way Senator Obamas opponents are playing guilt-by-association, tarring him because he happens to know Bill Ayers.

I also know Bill Ayers. He worked with me in shaping our now nationally-renowned school reform program. He is a nationally-recognized distinguished professor of education at the University of Illinois/Chicago and a valued member of the Chicago community.

I dont condone what he did 40 years ago but I remember that period well. It was a difficult time, but those days are long over. I believe we have too many challenges in Chicago and our country to keep re-fighting 40 year old battles.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/04/mayor_daley_def...


That's going to be the spin thrown right back at McSame. If he wants to play that though, he would not be able to handle reruns of him in his Keating Five days. That shows him to be a criminal. Compared to being on some board and a small political contribution 10 years ago is NOTHING compared to being someone responsible for costing taxpayers millions of dollars.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HardWorkingDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #68
71. Let's see....
So you are saying it will be easier to attack McCain because he was involved with a money scandal and that it is going to be easier to defend Obama when it comes to his relationship with a self-admitted bomber, especially with the fear of post-911 in American minds?


Most likely the reason any poll shows this isn't sticking is because this story is just in its infancy.

Just last night on CSpan Brian Lamb was interviewing a man about guess what? Yep, Obama and Bill Ayers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
25. "People, this story HAS legs."
Yes, but only in your dreams. In your dreams it probably also has pincers and glowing red eyes and bloody fangs. In your dreams, that is.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
69. It's not a dream. This Ayers stuff (tied to Wright and Michelle) is Leg City.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
29. And it will continue only if you allow it to
I know that seems a daunting, insurmountable task -- to counter M$M, but, the fact of the matter is that by getting involved with writing letters, talking to neighbors, joining phone banks, etc. -- these are the things to counter the attacks. All politics is local. Fear not, because all of the people I know who are Obama supporters are still avid Obama supporters. They see through what is occurring now and are not swayed as they might once have been. Obama's message transcends these ugly political games. It's not 2000 or even 2004 any more. People are beginning to wake up to the nasty attacks and see them for what they are: distractions.

If you are that concerned, volunteer to make calls to voters in PA. We have a couple of days left. When you meet someone who says, "Hey, Obama and thast terrorist Ayers collaborated..." call them on it immediately. I once met a lady while having my car repaired and she said that Obama didn't believe in saying the pledge. I set her straight immediately. Others in the room joined in and she was set straight. It's time WE participate. It's by word of mouth, person by person, that we can help to make a difference.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
32. McCain is easy pickins. Besides being a bully and having a foul mouth,
he aided and abetted in trying to cover up Abramoff. It didn't work and now he's alleging he helped uncover it. Right. Then, of course, there's his private life - hate to go there, but if he's going to pick on Obama over some guy who was involved in something controversial when Obama was 8 years old, I want to talk about adultery and Cindy's drug use. In any case, it's only a matter of time before McCain goes ballistic and it's all over youtube.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. The more he tries to emulate Bush & Co.
the more alienated the electorate.

I think people should get a grip. Most view him now as an extension of Bush. That comment he made about '100 more years' pretty much did him in.

And, a lot of Repugs I know felt he sold out to Bush.

A Republican I know who supports Obama sent me this clip from SNL about McCain:

http://video.lisarein.com/tvfunhouse/mccain-tvfunhouse....

His father, also a Republican and a Vietnam War Vet, and who is also supporting Obama, is totally disgusted with McCain and certainly, neither like that he is portraying himself as an extension of Bush.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
40. I doubt the new "Red Scare" will have any effect.
The average folks are a helluva lot more concerned about losing their jobs, their houses, and their children to a lost war, than those scary commies under the bed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thoughtcrime1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
42. EVERYTHING against Obama has legs in the media
I think the public is catching on that the media is a RW tool, filled with RW tools, and nothing more. It is about protecting big money for those friendly, sweet rich people that would love to enslave the lower 95%, and folks just might be pulling their heads out of their collective asses to finally see this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #42
52. Nuthin like Drudgico.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
44. Ahh, the Politico
So neutral. So objective. So unbiased.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. And so often used....
by DU's Obama supporters.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #46
61. not this one
I don't trust them and I won't link to them.

Now, shall we talk about Clinton supporters linking to right-wing sources in order to buttress their candidate?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HardWorkingDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. And just what was ThePolitico reporting about?
It was not reporting about some National Review seminar or some conservative convention - it was reporting about what McCain said on ABC's poltical talk show "This Week."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fluffdaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
53. He will win only 3 or 4 states He will be mentioned in the same breath
as Dukakis and Mondale
The Big O will never run for POTUS again............................what a waste

He should have waited his turn
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #53
74. Bingo!
You've hit the nail on the proverbial head here.

What a shame.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dave From Canada Donating Member (932 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
57. If John McCain had a close supporter who was a former abortion bomber, it would and should damn
well be a story. A legitimate story. As the saying goes, "you are known by the company you keep." And right now, Obama keeps with some very questionable company (Rev. Wright, Bill Ayres). Not good.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
65. I agree, time to start digging dirt up on McGramps
Trying to associate Obama with "left wing radicals" isn't exactly a new thing. It's also not nearly as effective as it used to be, but it will be an issue.

It's definitely time to start working on hitting back McGramps. Nobody said this election was gonna be pretty.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
66. DU has found its hard working go-to Ayres guy.
Hi, HardWorkingDem! :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lucky 13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
67. NOT. WORRIED.
He SHUT DOWN this stupid argument during the debates and made Hillary look a little foolish. When are you going to realize our guy is TEFLON!

I've got an amazingly good feeling about Tuesday!! Who else feels it?!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun Dec 28th 2014, 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC