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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:11 PM
Original message
Nobody cares what you think....


Nobody cares what you think.

I don’t write a lot of posts because plenty of smart people here usually cover what I might say before I can say it. I’ve been visiting here almost every day since shortly after DU began and have been a monthly $ contributor for years. Don’t let my low number of posts brand me as a DU newbie. I love this site. I love what good Democrats do here.

As the primary flame wars continue to new heights of stupidity, I’m going to try and write a variation of a post that many have written before.

People come to DU to discuss and argue politics - mostly. That’s cool. Allegedly it’s a Democratic Party partisan site to promote Democratic candidates and policies. Some of you may really feel you are making a difference with your latest 12 point rebuttal of someone else’s beliefs. Unfortunately, not many people will see it.

I got news for you, nobody cares. Nobody cares if you are a vegan, or a gun owner or Christian or an atheist gay or straight or other. Nobody cares how much you agonized during the primaries past and present. Nobody cares what campaign you worked for or gave money to. Nobody cares if you like Hillary or Obama. Nobody cares that you post here.

OK, relatively nobody. Maybe a few people do, but not enough to matter. Your endless back and forth flame war with some other DU poster certainly doesn’t matter. In October and November 2008, somewhere between 100 to 120 million American adults will give a shit enough to cast ballots for President and a whole long roster of important elected positions and local initiatives. It really, really matters to all of us and our Nation how this collection of partisan contests is resolved. Real people will die, be maimed, impoverished, imprisoned, tortured, spied on, abused, and marginalized in greater or lesser measure based in how we as a Nation vote in 2008.

As I write this, there are 118,842 user registrations on DU. Of course some of those are trolls, some never post or post lightly, some have written their “good bye cruel world” posts where they profess to never post here again because of some perceived injustice. Obviously some people visit and read and never sign in. Best case, there are a few hundred thousand that even know DU exists. Realistically, there are only a few thousand hard core DUers that come here often to read and sometimes post.

Let’s just say for a moment that by some miracle everyone on DU agreed exactly on the best candidate in every race nationwide. We can’t even vote as a block except for President and even then, if a 100 thousand of us vote in a 100 million citizen turnout we represent .001% of the vote. If every one of us gave a million dollars to our favorite candidates we still wouldn’t cover what will be spent Nation-wide in the various races.

Are we part of a larger Progressive/Liberal/Democrat blogosphere? Sure! But so what? The vast majority of America doesn’t pay attention to or even give a shit what we obsess over. The vast majority of Americans don’t read papers or watch network news every day, much less dive into the internet. Congratulations, you are part of the Elite! But nobody cares. The best rated TV cable news, Fox unfortunately, get around 2 million viewers a day. Rush gets about 2 million listeners to some part of his daily 3 hour bloviating. By contrast Kos gets around half a million visits a day. DU gets considerably less but if you want to be optimistic, roughly the same number of actual humans read liberal blogs as watch Fox news every day. The numbers go up and down. Have fun Googling the numbers. The fact remains that only about 10% of the voting population pays attention to political news on any given day. 3 million of our citizens are in jail for some reason or another. 80-100 million citizens won’t even vote. 12 million people are here illegally and can’t vote, but are affected by what we do.

The Liberal blogosphere is a bubble of sorts. If you live inside that bubble and think the rest of the world must see the same things you do then you are sadly mistaken.

90% of American voters don’t give a fuck what Hillary said about Obama today. 90% of American voters don’t give a fuck what Obama’s preacher said, ever. 90% of American voters don’t know what the most important news of the day is (whatever you may think that is). Tweety, Olberman, Russert and O’Reilly, Hannity and Rush can beat on a given silly topic for two weeks and 90% of the voters won’t have the slightest clue what the issue is. 90% of Americans couldn't’t tell you what States Senators McCain, Clinton and Obama represent. 68% of Americans believe in angels, 40% believe in Ghosts and 30% think George W. Bush is still doing a good job. 50% plus one of the electorate may still vote for McCain this year. I don’t care about the angels, ghosts, UFO or astrology beliefs because that generally won’t hurt many people, but a vote for McCain will.

When this 90% that doesn’t know or care what you think goes to vote, they will never have read your carefully crafted explanation of progressive taxation as a net social good. They will not have been swayed by your vicious flaming of some candidate’s foreign policy experience. They will not be eating less meat to fight global warming. They won’t be trading in their SUVs because you pointed out they look stupid driving them. They won’t have read a book by either Howard Zinn or Ann Coulter. They are going to vote emotionally, without a lot of reasoned thought, and to an extent, how their friends, coworkers, clerics and neighbors say they should.

As of 2004 in the U.S., 28% of the population over 25 had a bachelor’s degree or higher. That doesn’t mean 72% of the adults over 25 are stupid, but think about what that does mean. In 2003 about 16% of the U.S. population over 25 didn’t have a High School diploma or GED. (more women than men have both HS diplomas and up – go girls!) Most of these folks can vote. Very few give a shit how Rachel Maddow tore up that republican on MSNBC last Tuesday. They don’t know who James Carville or Mary Matalin are. They definitely don’t care what you think about how Hillary’s experiences as First Lady prepared her for leadership. They don’t care if Obama didn’t craft his San Francisco speech to properly sway white, rural, male, nativist gun owners in Pennsylvania.

75% of the US population allegedly has internet access in their homes. I’ll let you ponder what they are using it for. I’ll just guarantee you most of them aren’t visiting Democratic political sites to bone up on current events. Who is going to get them to vote Democratic? Hint: It won’t be the mass media.

Flame away, split hairs, argue semantics, cuss, spit bitch and moan, but come October (early and absentee voting) we have to start turning out warm bodies to cast Democratic ballots. Use this forum however you want to promote DEMOCRATIC candidates and ideals, but don’t expect anything to change or happen because you bitched about it here. Refine your knowledge and firm up your convictions, but you have to take that to the streets and keep the message simple. What are you going to do that will make some of that 90% care what you think?

What are you really going to do to turn out Democratic votes this year? If all you are going to do is bitch at other Democrats on sites like this, then piously proclaim you’ll sit the election out because your favorite Dem didn’t get the nod, then screw you. 2008? If you think the Republican or third party alternative will be better, then you are an idiot. Go poison some other website.

There’s not that many of us that care or pay attention. There’s not enough for us to fight each other over trifles. Nobody cares what you think. They will only pay attention to what you actually DO. A lot of us here want to DO things. We want to meet up, organize, register voters, promote Democratic candidates, direct money to worthy candidates, ensure a legitimate vote count, etc. We want do real and positive things, not tear each other up over political minutiae. Give it a shot. Be the neighbor, coworker or friend that opens someone’s eyes just enough. The people you need to reach aren’t on this website. They don’t care what you think because they don’t know.

Think about it before you waste time writing that next flame post or argue with some troll whose only goal is the argument itself.

Thanks for caring enough about what I may think to read this far. Carry On!
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. Your post is an example of what you talk about in your post......
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. yes it is..thanks for reading anyway!
I do try to walk the walk too. Thats why after over 6 years on DU I have a little over 500 posts. I try to spend most of my Political brain-time outside of cyberspace.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. My self esteem is ruined.....sniff....
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. I doubt it *S*
Go Union!
How is Al Franken doing? I love that guy. Think he has a chance?
What are your feelings about a re-vote for the Pres primary in Michigan? I get the impression it ain't gonna happen.

Are people pissed at the DNC and Dean?
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. No re-vote. Plenty of guns in Michigan but politicians are out of season-yet
Al Franken...meh...baby we've got Kwami in Detroit to entertain us in Michigan don't you know.
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. Detroit...yeech
Did you see the High School graduation rates out of Detriot in the recent Dept of Ed report? 24.9%in 2004. Are people freaking out about that?
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
52. Well the Detroit school system has had about every kind of
intervention known. From multi tiered plans for reform to private business coming in to run select schools to the mayor's office running things. Nothing on the school end seems to get the school population to stay put. I haven't read the articles, just heard the news reports. My guess is that they are not starting young enough to help the kids understand the importance of graduation. Lot of raggedy families in inner Detroit that are functioning on fumes. Lot of reason for kids to leave school in terms of what there is to do OUT of school. Much of it illegal.

I wish people would freak out more about graduation rates anywhere but that's sort of an old fashioned idea it seems.
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #52
61. actually I think the problem is mainly economic
Poor people with few opportunities don't make very good parents or role models. When someone, even a bright kid see's an activity as futile, they are going to look for something else to do. When parents can't make a living they won't provide much encouragement for kids to work hard to live the same way.

Over and over, we see the best school districts and graduation rates are in communities that have economically secure parents involved in setting the conditions for success. Money spent per child is not the biggest factor.

It's a complicated subject and I've been trying to read more about the Educational reform solutions that have been tried.

Thanks for the ground level Michigan view.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Students come in all sizes and from all places.....
Edited on Wed Apr-16-08 07:56 PM by MichiganVote
I had a student who has an IQ of about 130-140. Nature. A white kid from a white mother who lived in a household with a couple of african american stepfathers. Now its not the kid's race that is the most important element. But...his role models have happened to be drug dealers, gang bangers and what all. So here is this kid, with any color skin, with a high powered IQ and guess what? Despite repeated intensive school services he couldn't and didn't even finish his GED. I'd see him going down the hallway of the local Alternative HS, dressed in the gang banging paraphanalia and it'd just break my heart. All that potential and its just gone. His mother held a job and yes they were low income. And yes she made some lousy choices but I don't think she intended to. But in our current economic predicament, there is just no way for low income families to break out. It takes a supreme effort to move from the low income class to the middle class if only b/c of the social skills required. For those in the middle class it takes supreme sacrifice on the part of the parents to support their offspring re: school, college etc.

We are locking ourselves in and it shows in areas like Detroit. But its everywhere. And yes, its about economics. It doesn't take money to become uncivilized human beings. Our world is full of wealthy individuals who are functionally uncivilized. But character and an internal moral compass require modeling---and that takes money.
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. wow...
Powerful and scary first-hand stuff. Thanks. It's hard for me to escape the idea that we as a Nation are just throwing people away like garbage because they don't live up to some sort of moral and economic test; a test that is intentionally rigged to insure a certain proportion always fails.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Exactly. And that is why educators, those wily, creative, interested in learning types,
are going out of their frickin' minds with NCLB. We are leaving behind anyone who does not fit the cookie cutter. Oh sure, there is a need for accountability in schools, teaching and so on...but not to the point where we trash the very novelty that is being a human being.

And this kid is just one....I swear someday I'll write the book that really tells the reality of what my student's lives are like.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yep. It's amusing, but it ain't the real world. And it's well to the left of that world, overall,
as well.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
48. Well....parts of it are
A bit like the curate's egg - good in parts.
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. You're right, of course.
Not that anybody cares what we think. ;)
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bilgewaterbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:20 PM
Original message
It's co-worker.
In the 3rd to last paragraph. (Just so ya know I readed it all.):evilgrin:
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
14. thanks! n/t
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. so which on-the-ground activities have you found most productive?
In terms of national elections. I come here in part to get ideas for how I could possibly help in the coming months. I'm short on cash, and I live in NY so my single vote is pretty worthless (NY will go Dem no matter what).

Local elections are another matter, but I have friends involved with those.

I also come here to read the Late Breaking News for making myself a better educated citizen and voter; there's no way I would have the time to locate the interesting pieces I find here.
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. All politics are local...
Local Dem clubs are the best place to start, just go. Costs nothing or maybe a token contribution once a year. Find out what is going on in local races. Sounds like you do that. I think that is the best thing. Opportunities flow from that.

I love the links to info I get here. I find it hard to recommend the site to people though because there is so much nasty vitriol to wade through sometimes.
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. speaking of vitriol, this is my other favorite cartoon seen on DU
in addition to the one in your OP:

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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. that's awesome!
Believe it or not, I hadn't seen that.
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. I specifically asked for it on this thread:
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
44. I had not seen that one before.
pretty funny
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NDambi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #12
45. LOL I love3 that cartoon
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. I come here
To blow off steam. I work a full time job and the rest of the time I'm volunteering for the campaign here in PA. I don't think I make a difference in here. I'm here for me because I enjoy it.
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. you are a smart person...
Keep fighting! Just fight the repukes harder than you fight Dems. (I have no idea idea if you fight with Dems...just say'n, general rule and all...)
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. LOL! Great post!
Are you Skinner's sock puppet?

:thumbsup:
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. thanks...
Skinner can speak for his own bad self and I don't want to have anything to do with his socks!
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
10. Wrong: (at least) "we" care what we think.
And "we" were right when "we" were against this sham of a war in Iraq.
And "we" are right when "we" still are against this sham of a war in Iraq.

And... lookie-dookie, now a big majority of that 300+ million think the same...

"We" care.
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. I just hope "we" can win....
There are lots of reasons to be hopeful. I get really fired up when I read all the great things going on around the country and see poll after poll going our way. Then I go talk to some Joe-Bob out in the sunshine and he starts off on the "Libruls hate Amurrica" track and I realize we have a long way to go still.

Thanks for caring!

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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. I hope too.
We care about that Joe-Bob out there too, especially when the greatest depression of all that's coming soon is gonna smack the sorry-assed as hard as it's gonna hit ours...

On second thought, not! :grr:
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qijackie Donating Member (238 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
16. I thoroughly enjoyed your post. Thanks!!!
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
20. OKAAAAAAAY. You're right. If Obama wins the nomination, I'll vote for him. I agree with you. K/R
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. If Clinton wins, I'll vote, give and campaign for her
I do like Obama better, but damn, they are both giants compared with McSame.
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
22. That is the most beautiful story I have ever heard today.
:*
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InvisibleTouch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
23. Let me say (ironically) that you should post more.
Your analysis is dead-on. All the flaming and tearing into each other here doesn't do a damn bit of good, but it burns up time and energy that might be used for effective action. I can't fault people's passion to express their viewpoints and argue - it blows off steam, which is often necessary, and it does hone one's ability to debate or convince others in the offline world. It solidifies one's position and prepares one to address the likely counter-arguments. The site serves an important function, and I don't want to belittle its impact. It's a community, however contentious, and it does often motivate people to make calls, write letters, contribute money, and the like, for vital causes. But once we start feeling like we've accomplished something concrete by posting here, alone, we're getting lost in a mental/emotional realm instead of a world of action. To be effective, we have to be willing to take the next step. And to be fair, I saw a lot of people take direct action in 2004, phone banking, getting out the vote, etc., and also those who plant trees, clean up wetlands, and make lifestyle changes to help the planet. But a lot of people (myself included, more often than not) just read and post and then feel connected to the pulse of current events.

I've long since realized that DU's collective conventional wisdom is almost always wrong, or almost always irrelevant to the rest of the world. That's not to say it's foolish - it's a legitimate viewpoint of a particular group of people. But it doesn't often translate to the rest of the country. I do come here often to read, I post a little here and there, and I enjoy (usually) seeing the thoughts and opinions of fellow Democrats. But I no longer pin my hopes on what the collective of DU is "certain" will happen, or worry about the latest "scandal" or "whatever-gate" that has everyone up in arms. The key to staying sane on this site, is not to get too worked up about what others say - even when they're attacking people or concepts that I hold in high regard. What are the other posters' credentials, after all? They're expressing opinions, filtered through personal biases and worldviews, just like my opinions are filtered through my own biases and worldviews. That's why I'm always a bit disappointed to see someone stomp out and slam the door behind them because they're taking everything personally. That energy could be put to better use.

Thanks for your post. :)
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. thank you...I agree, well put...n/t
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
24. The media cares what we think.....cause this is one of the place they come
Edited on Tue Apr-15-08 11:02 PM by FrenchieCat
to harvest info for their stories (some about nothing, and some about a bit more than nothing). And although each separate set of stats that you cite about cable and network news viewers may not sound like much, but when added all together does end up as the public opinion shaper in respect to this country's politics. You've got 1,000,000 who watch this, and 1,000,000 that read this and that, and pretty soon, you've got 10 million digesters of political information; a small army. They each tell 10 of their friends what they think (many buddies always have the "political one" who's job is to inform the rest of them), and maybe those listening tell 10 of their friends, and so on and so forth.

In otherwords, each and everyone of our voices is important, which is how Barack Obama raised a lot of his "breaking all records" war chest. In fact, that is implicitly his message, that with our voices together we can change the nation and in turn change the world.

Obviously, you are not a believer of this type of activism; namely grassroots.

In fact, I think your post sounds foolish in that it illustrates your own underestimation of the idea that we are all interconnected and to separated us into single entities to be able to say that none of us really count is to deny the apparent; that the Internet has become the Corporate media's biggest obstacle to gain total control for its own corporate agenda.

Plus many of us here do other activist "things". We make phone calls, sign petitions, call our congresspeople, canvas for issues and candidates, donate, etc., etc.....
Some also write elsewhere, are local Democratic party chairs, etc....

And so, I say of your op; you've got it kind of wrong.

(edited to add, but yeah....the flaming gets to be a bit much--that's why you are only "kinda" wrong, IMO --if IMO still counts. :) )
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. You make good points
I'm very much about grass roots activism. I wasn't very clear. I think we overestimate our netroots influence sometimes. We have to do it all like you say...work all the angles. I just keep running across people, good people, smart people, that completely are outside the loop of Democratic political outreach.

You are especially right that each voice is important. I was mainly trying to get people to use those voices on people who otherwise aren't getting the message.

Thanks! keep it up!
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Kewl!
:thumbsup:
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
28. Going through GDP and alerting vigorously without posting
is a satisfying substitute for getting into it. I highly recommend it.
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. LOL..I'll give it a try! n/t
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
33. thanks for the recs y'all!....
I'm going to go be quiet again. Keep up the great work and thanks for your attention.

Be excellent to each other and go talk with more people who maybe don't get to hear a sane (Democrat)political voice in their life.

We shall prevail!
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
34. LOL!
I care what you wrote. :D


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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
35. You're right.
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
36. I don't care what you think.
:rofl:
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
37. K + R.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
38. I don't care what it is. If it's on the 4th rec...I kick it to the front page...
The world needs to see what kind of mindless crap we have in here :kick: :thumbsup:
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. way to not care!
Thanks for kicking my mindless crap! My artlessly presented point was the greater world doesn't see much of our mindless crap. They don't see the brilliant and well reasoned stuff either.

Take the good stuff outdoors and build more Democrats!

Thanks!
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
39. Fundamental difference: DU'ers care. We may be a very small part of the population at large,
Edited on Wed Apr-16-08 12:32 AM by Seabiscuit
but we care. We post our thoughts, discuss our differences, and between us, our opinions and feelings matter to ourselves and each other.

So what if we're a relatively small group of people? We care. And no matter how hostile it may get in here, we care about our country, and we care about what's happened to it, and we care, as Democrats, about each other. That's what's important.

On edit: I sometimes wonder, however about the 1,000 or so "Obamanoids" here that come across on this board as freepers trying to drag us all down.
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. I agree that people here care
My ham-handed point was that we perhaps spend too much time in this echo chamber. A small group of people can make a huge difference...if they collectively reach out and help change the minds of a much larger group.

Ewwwww Freepers!

Conservative trolls aren't persistent or clever enough to cause as much turmoil as a regular old hyper-partisan Democrat.

As far as Obamanoids or Hillarybots, I hate hearing dismissive monikers like those. The primary process is important and It's OK for fierce partisans to push for their fav candidate. It's essential we elevate our best candidates. More often than not, I think it works. Unfortunately, the bitterness of some of the battles hurts us. The negative energy is much better directed at say....John McCain.

The wingnuts websites had their own problems this season with the Ron Paulistas. The tactics of the Paulistas got them banned on many Conservative blogs early in the primary even though Paul was polling pretty well compared to the the Repub clown-car riders. Keep your eye on the Repub convention this year. The Paulistas aren't done.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
41. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. Your lead opinion
is sure leading.

You are a LEADER.(And still in your pajamas. Ain't the internet fab.)
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #41
47. Ouch!
Actually, I'm familiar with Charles Wright Mills writings, though I haven't read him in a long time. His ideas are a little dated but not irrelevant. Lots of writers and thinkers have built on his fundamentally sound analysis of economic elites. It wouldn't hurt to look again.

I'm sorry I didn't make a clearer point for you. I'm definitely not trying to promote a sense of helplessness. You are correct, small numbers can have big impacts, but only if these "opinion leaders" go out and actually lead.

As far as being a troll and pointing me to Freeperland? That's just mean! Thanks for taking the time to read and respond.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. Perhaps that was a bit too sharp. But, you can see why I took offense.
There are already too many messages promoting a sense of powerlessness. I understand that there are tradeoffs between blogging and other forms of activism. I could be ringing doorbells right now, but this is also an important form of political action -- and, I wouldn't dare ring door bells in my pajamas.

Thanks for posting, even if it rubbed me the wrong way. :kick:
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #49
59. no sweat...i wasn't offended and didn't intend to offend
I didn't mean to offend but rather suggest people need to do more than post on websites to raise awareness. As many have pointed out, the internet is a great place to spread ideas and get info. I still think it can be an intellectual cul-de-sac that gives the illusion of progress while driving around in circles. A lot of people here work in meatspace and cyberspace and have fun mixing it up here, so maybe I'm too critical.

You mention knocking on doors. I personally don't like door to door canvassing. It has it's place, but I don't think it's really that effective. Some would disagree. In my fantasy activist world everyone here has a small group of unfortunately conservative acquaintances we work on over time. Eventually when they see the world and their place in it a bit broader, conservative ideology makes less and less sense. You build a progressive voter for life rather than a Democratic voter for one election. You are probably doing that and just not calling it "activism". So keep it up!

Thanks for reminding me of Mills. I need to re-read some 20th century Labor struggle history. We are going to have to re-fight some of the same battles and it would be very republican to learn nothing from history.

Thanks!
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kevinmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
46. I like that Cartoon. I've used it somewhere else before. Keeps it in perspective.. n/t
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
50. bravo.
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RiverStone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
51. It may be just a pebble...but
Edited on Wed Apr-16-08 11:20 AM by RiverStone
You don't know what you don't know.

Even in this tiny corner of the universe, never underestimate what a kind word or a note of compassion can do. I've had more than one person acknowledge that random acts of kindness even anonymously offered in cyberspace can change a day, a mood, or a life.

Small ripples - but some do indeed listen. And many of us make a difference, even here.

peace~:)
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #51
58. a great thought...thank you!
I wish people would toss more kind pebbles in life's pond than chunk rocks at each other's heads.

As far as "converting" conservatives to vote Democratic, I've had to change my approach. I used to be very angry and confrontational, full of the latest outrages and brimming with clever counterpoints to any objections.

Now I try to be calmer, simpler and let the weight of sincere conviction sink in rather than being confrontational.

And you are absolutely right that small gestures can mean a lot to individuals and this forum does allow individuals to connect in a meaningful way. I get too wrapped up thinking about the macro picture of Millions and Millions and forget that each one of those people is an individual that will respond in unique ways.

Thanks!
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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
53. OK, OK, OK - I'll go clean the house, dammit!
:cry:

At least I'm not some sports nut, that stuff REALLY doesn't matter. :hide:
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
54. Standing O from this seat.
:bounce:

There are too many people on the Internet, and they they all believe they're too fucking important.

You sound like a Gen X'er, btw.


~Writer~

PS: Note my sig.
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #54
62. thanks...
Technically, born in 1962, I'm supposedly a tail-end "boomer". I definitely exhibit more GenX sensibilities.

Have you read "Generations" by Strauss and Howe? I'm not sure I buy their whole argument about repeating cyclical generations, but it's fascinating how they call the shot of how each generation will behave.

If they are right, we better start fixing shit or GenY/Millennials will be putting us all in camps and forcing us at gunpoint to clean up the mess we made!
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. I read that book when I was in middle school.
I was born in 1975.

My opinion is that Gen X should start in 1963 following the assassination of Kennedy. 1964, perhaps. That was the end of American innocence, imho.

You should read this new book that has just been published: "X Saves the World." Brilliant and funny book by Jeff Gordinier. He says that Gen X is more of a sensibility than an age range.

You'll also feel a little bit better about Gen X contributions to society, such as Google, etc. We actually have made our mark as an age group even if we don't do documentaries on ourselves and talk about ourselves in vainglorious terms. :)

~Writer~
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
55. fun post - I'll be registering voters in Missouri and maybe volunteering for ACORN
you nailed it - good job

guilty as charged

still, I'm having some fun when I'm not hopping mad
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. most excellent!
We need to win Missouri. I wish I could say we can turn Texas Blue this season, but it is a very steep climb. Give it hell and try not to leave any marks.
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Arrowhead2k1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
57. I write stuff online mainly for fun and to past time.
Edited on Wed Apr-16-08 05:50 PM by Arrowhead2k1
Not because I think it'll make a difference. I already know it's impossible to change someone's mind over the internet, but it's easy just to aggravate people on the other side! That's what I like to do. :evilgrin:
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. i don't know if it's impossible
People can change their minds based on what they read here, but not usually because of a partisan firefight in HTML form.

By all means have fun. Might I suggest mainly aggravating people on the repuke side?

Gobama!
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