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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:06 PM
Original message
Lunch Bucket Democrats vs. Latte Sippers
The Pennsylvania primary is slowly coming to view. After the Texas and Ohio primary there has been a long tough slog of campaign stories that are like so many biting gnats. There were a few bigger bugs that got into the ointment, like the Reverend Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. Mostly we have been treated with chaff; Hillary’s “sniper-fire” moment, Obama’s movie preferences, TV talking heads and others of the chattering classes opining on Hillary’s need to bow out of the race, what to do about Florida and Michigan.

The rhetoric has gotten overheated, the worst offenders being the “Progressive” blogosphere and MSNBC. Keith Olbermann has joined the rest of the he-man women haters club at MSNBC when he gave a not so “Special Comment” on Hillary. He wrongly co-joined Hillary and the KKK on that broadcast while producing some other rhetorical whoppers during the comment. His “Countdown” has become a shameless pro-Obama zone. If you are not totally in the tank for Obama, you don’t get on his show anymore (except if your name is Rachel Maddow.)

MSNBC distaste for all things Hillary is not much of a surprise. Most of the media hands hate her. Think of her as Al Gore in drag and you get the amount of animosity that Hillary engenders among the progressive elites.

It is the elites of the media and the progressive political class that have fallen for Barack Obama in a hard way. It is not so surprising, he is like them a man of great talent who got to the top of the game via his gift of language. He is one of them, one of the chattering classes. Look at the real pedigree of Obama, not the fluff and nonsense put out in his two books. All along the way he went to all the right schools and joined all the right causes. His education was top-top tier; he got into Harvard Law School and then taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago. He has led a very charmed life and operated in very charmed circles.

Even his “autobiography” is less a bearing of his soul than a weaving of a political tale. People are now coming out of the wood work to offer a much different story than Barack offered. The story is more and more about privilege and less and less about hard knocks. Barack comes out much more studious and much less wild then he claims. Much of the story in “Dreams of My Father” now seems to be less self-revelation and more self-serving. We are offered a “black” coming of age story that is less tethered to reality and more tethered to fiction. The book is a political document, a pitch to a segment of the public that wants to believe in the story Barack offers. For want of a better term let us call these folks “Latte Sippers.” It is an unfair and derisive label but it does capture the attitude of this cohort.

Another term has been offered is the Creative Class. It is an upper-middle class to nearly wealthy segment of the population. These are people who deal with ideas and concepts; they are socially liberal and politically moderate. Obama offers them a redemptive figure for their guilt. These people so want to prove that we are a post-racial, post-partisan nation. They dearly want to believe that rational thought and cool reason are now paramount. In short they are in deep denial about how the country really works. In their charmed circle there is no overt racism, there is no homophobia, women are judged as equals as a matter of course. The underbelly of this charmed life is that they really do have no skin in the game. None of them have to worry about abortion rights. They have the financial wherewithal to go to Canada to terminated their unwanted pregnancy. None of them lives paycheck to paycheck or has to really worry about getting pummeled to death by anti-gay thugs. There biggest worries are finding the right pre-school for children and the right house help to manage their frantic lives.

Theirs’ is highly thought out life; an information rich existence. Theirs’ is nuanced patriotism. Not for them the bombast of marching bands or flags or God Bless America stickers. They actually have empathy for the feeling of someone like Reverend Jeremiah A. Wright. They feel Barack Obama’s "A More Perfect Union" speech settles the matter. They offer countless explanation of how the black church works and how some of Wrights comments have merit. They go on to say that many of the Wright comments are taken out of context and should be seen for the whole. All of these are worthy arguments and all beside the point.

They are beside the point because they are not reaching the second group in the Democratic Party- the Lunch Bucket Democrats. This cohort used to be the back-bone of the party and the back-bone of the USA. Lately though the back-bone has gotten osteoporosis. Good paying blue-collar jobs have left the USA and decimated the union men and women who occupied them. Gone are the days of Ozzie and Harriet, both husband and wife now work to support the middle-income middle class life style. For almost a decade real wages have been stagnant; in the Bush years real wages have actually declined. For the lower reaches of the working class it has been worse. Poverty has increased and far too many people work in crappy retail and other service jobs that pay low wages and offer no benefit. Far too many families are one paycheck away from disaster.

For these folks there is no grand political compromise; they are getting screwed and they know it. These are Hillary’s supporters lock, stock, and barrel. They are the ones who delivered the crushing defeat to Obama in Ohio. They are the ones he failed to pander to with his NAFTA double speak. They want a fighter not a smooth talker. They want rock-ribbed patriotism not nuance. They are the ones who can not, will not understand any preacher saying “God Damn America.”

Barack really does not get these people. He never really had to deal with them for any length of time. He got a glimpse of their world when he worked as a community organizer but even that was a small skewed subset. Barack mostly worked with people of color, organizing the South Side of Chicago. He might have run across some old-school union organizers but only as a passing fancy. Intellectually, culturally, spiritually he was not part of their world. None of these of these union people suffered problems of “authenticity” or needed to find self-realization. They had more prosaic issues like paying for college and health care. They have bills to pay and are working two jobs each just to support themselves. They are afraid that their children will end up worse off then they are.

Thiers are bread and butter issues, they want straight talk. They don’t want to hear about transformation, they don’t want to hear about post-partisanship. They want to hear about how the candidate is going to help them and their children. All their lives they have worked hard and played by the rules. They just want simple justice. They want security. They want their children to better off then they were. These people are not slam-dunks for Obama. He has consistently failed to reach them. These rust-belt denizens are nobody’s give-me. It speaks to Obama failing to understand them that he would say they would go to him in the general.

These are the so called “Regan Democrats” and they are being slowly turned off and turned away by the Obama crowd. Their sense of fair play is being abused by Barack’s stance on Florida and Michigan. Their patriotism is being mocked by Obama’s connection to Wright and the Weather Underground guy. They know a seedy operator when they see one and Rezko definitely fits the bill. Obama has still failed to explain himself in any of these issues. His supporters have been even worse. They have been overbearing jerks. Their tone has been demeaning; they have issued gross appeals to getting on an inevitable bandwagon of hope with out offering any real details.

Barack’s younger supporters just don’t understand how many times the older, less affluent voters have been burned by some one saying “trust me.” Regan Democrats believe in “Trust but verify” Again they have seen far too many snake-oil salesmen to trust any glad-handing pol. They do not give a fig about position papers, nor websites, nor grand ideas. They hate being called “low information voters” they know this is a politically correct way of calling them ignorant. They want to know about Obama’s character not his stance on the war.

This is where the good Senator has failed. In part, it has been deliberate; Barack has ardently strived to be a Tabula Rosa. He has been the political equivalent of an etch-a-sketch- you get to draw pretty much what you want on his screen. Problem is, the drawing does not last. The other problem, as Wright proves, is that Barack is no longer in control of the drawing. There was already a Republican meme questioning Obama’s patriotism because of the lapel pin nonsense and the hand-over heart silliness. Reverend Wright just added fuel to that fire. The man gifted a freaking forest to be exact. We also have the weirdo religion aspect to look at again. The Muslim angle was always a non-starter; but this black empowerment and black liberation theology is a totally different matter.

The slime machine is already in high gear. Unfortunately it has cropped up in Larry Johnsons’ No Quarter. In a featured post by someone named “Fleaflicker” we are treated to an appeal to the reptile brain. In a sloppy, disjointed, poorly sourced, and fallacious post we are invited to fear and hate. No link will be provided; it is a horrid post that should have never seen the light of day. But it is a small taste of the kitchen sinks that will be tossed Obama’s way by Republican 527’s in the general if he is the Democratic nominee. Barack will be painted as a combination of Osama Bin Laden and Huey Newton. He will be cast as an undercover operative of the New Black Panthers. You will be seeing You Tube after You Tube of angry black men screaming “kill whitey” being linked to Obama via Rev Wright. Every ill-tempered bit of vitriol every uttered by Wright, or the Weathermen, or god only knows who else will be repeated ad nauseum Infinitum. Once again our candidate will be forced to play defense. Once again the Democrat will have to try to torpedo legions of swift-boats.

Maybe Barack will make his move for the lunch bucket crowd after North Carolina. He needs the black vote and hence the black church to win in N.C. Look for a reappraisal of the good Reverend by Barack once that primary is done. Obama will have to do something to wink and nod to the black voters to say “look I got to pacify these kooky white folk” It will be a high-wire act tying to keep his black follows energized while somehow reassuring whites that his 20 year association with Wright was strictly spiritual. He has to come up with something better than the crazy uncle explanation. Barack is probably now regretting that he did not follow his grandfather in to the Unitarian-Universalist church. U-U’s might be weird but they are mostly harmless.

The challenge for Barack is really making a play for the Regan Democrats. He really needs to court them. His record here is atrocious. He lost John Edwards easy endorsement because he ignored Edward’s core issues of poverty and a fair shake for the working stiff. He angered Elizabeth Edwards with his health care stance. For a supposed unifier he really manages to irritate and antagonize people. It is an odd thing for a man who started out his career as a community organizer. How did he develop such a tin ear for certain sections of the population? Why is the man so obviously arrogant? There really seems to be a sense of entitlement that exudes from the man. Outside the embrace of the black community and the black church he just does not connect with the working class. He seems to have a real disdain for the rough-and-tumble that is part and parcel of the blue-collar world. There is a disconnect that is profound and dangerous especially with the electorate in such a foul mood.

There is some light for Barack in PA. He is gaining among males a 12 point shift over the last week. But polls are very dicey this year and the election in PA is still a long way off. The real question for Barack is how badly he will loose in PA not if he can win. The crystal ball is otherwise clouded and cracked. Clinton is definitely behind in the delegate count and either behind or ahead in the popular vote depending on if you count FL and MI. We are talking tiny percentiles either way; less than 1%.

There is an almost even split in the Democratic Party. Hillary has the old-line union vote and the FDR coalition. She does well with the security crowd and lower income voters. Barack on the other hand has youth, the creative class, and the black vote. Clinton does much better among Latinos with only the Latino youth breaking Obama’s way. Except for the black vote Obama has very upper-class, very educated cohort voting for him.

Without the black vote Obama would not have a prayer. It carried most of the south for him and almost did in Hillary in TX. Hillary was saved by one of the stronger and expanding sets of the lunch-bucket crowd: the Latinos. Look at the statistics of all the people who are part of the middle-income cohort, the Latinos are least economically secure. They are middle-income but not yet middle class. These are the people who broke massively for Clinton. The question is, why is the great unifier not getting through to these voters? Why is Hillary better able to communicate to these voters? With the economy as the major issue in the 2008 election Obama better find the answer to the riddle of the lunch bucket set. Once again, just like with Bush the elder it could be “it’s the economy stupid” all over again.



by WhiskeyTangoFoxtrotOscar
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. Um...ok..... Tell the teamsters that they are "Latte drinkers".....


..and since when did Hillary's base.... aging white women.... typically carry Lunch buckets?


Your headline is false on it's face.
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GarbagemanLB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Hillary Oakley has worked the night shift. How else did she make 109 million dollars?
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Andy823 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. It was all those
Edited on Sun Apr-13-08 10:15 PM by Andy823
"Speeches" Bill gave, and the money he got from Columbia, that makes them know what it's like to be one of the "little people"!

Hell we should all relate to them as "one of us"!
:sarcasm: :sarcasm:


How anyone can make such statements as in the OP is beyond me!
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IntravenousDemilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Plus...
...she brown-bagged lunch for an entire week in February, clips coupons faithfully, and for some time now has been collecting her spare pennies in a coffee tin. Also, she has that part-time second job at the A & P.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
34. The Clintons did not own a million dollar house
in 1992. Their net worth then was a fraction of the Obama's, even adjusting for inflation.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. by WhiskeyTangoFoxtrotOscar..who is that? Is this your work.?
or Whiskey's? Do you need a link?
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JasonHill Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. This sort of characterization is counterproductive
Edited on Sun Apr-13-08 10:15 PM by JasonHill
it doesn't matter if you drink a latte or carry your food in a lunchbucket. That's just superficial nonsense dressed up in class-warfare terms where the dems lose because the "latte" contingent isnt going to go repub which makes it more easy to stereotype all Dems in that framework.

edit: cleaned up some gibberish :)
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. "Class warfare" = rightwing talking point. nt
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Class warfare... Latte drinkers... Elitist liberals... They're really catapulting...
...the RW propaganda, aren't they?

NGU.


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JasonHill Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Disagree
while the right uses the term specifically by framing it in a negative light, the history of it is rooted much more prominently in Marxist and Socialist circles.

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IntravenousDemilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. You better believe there's class warfare. We didn't start it, but we'll sure as hell finish it! n/m
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Perhaps I should clarify: Dismissing any discussion of class as "warfare" is a RW talking point. nt
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IntravenousDemilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Thank you for the clarification. n/m
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JasonHill Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #26
49. i wasn't dismissing class warfare
i was dismissing using class-warfare rhetoric against Dems when where it's being used will only help republicans with how they frame the debate.
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catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #23
56. Hey IV
I'll take "Sic transit gloria mundi" for $200 Alex.....Good to see you...
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IntravenousDemilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #56
60. Hey, catnhatnh, how the hell are ya?
I'm red-faced to admit that your handle is unfamiliar to me, so you have me at a disadvantage. Where have we met? I know, I'm just terrible...

Nevertheless, good to see you, too, since you're friendly. If we do know each other, please PM me.

BTW, I too have a friend named Gloria who once threw up on the streetcar on the first day of the work-week.
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catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #60
72. Nah....I remember your 15 minutes of fame...
Edited on Mon Apr-14-08 09:09 AM by catnhatnh
...we only cross paths occassionally.I remembered watching you on TV.
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IntravenousDemilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. What if you carry your latte in a lunchbucket?
Would it explode, as when matter hits antimatter?
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JasonHill Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
48. haha
worlds are colliding, jerry! :D
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CatsDogsBabies Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
6. I am responding though I didn't read all of the long post
but what is this with the latte sippers? Is this suppose to mean someone is elitist? Is this the 90s still? where we think if people drink lattes they are snobish or something? For goodness sake, aren't lattes pretty common these days? Aren't they sold at Dunkin Donuts and MacDonalds? Hasn't Starbucks lowered its prices to compete with all this latte competition?
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Hestia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Too true, even Sonic sells cappuccino's these days.
To me, if we have to pander to the Reagan people, can they really, in their hearts, be Democrats? Just call them Republican enablers and get it over with. It seems that their children are the one's who are convincing them to vote for Barack Obama. Isn't that why they went into debt - that their children would get the education they didn't and bring that back home?
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bigbrother05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #6
57. Can find latte machines at all the "elite" truck stops here in TX
Also have a good assortment of bottled water. That's just some new RW code words to replace the more obvious ones like: SF Dem, PC, Liberal, Commie/Pinko, and that old stand by N*-lover.
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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #57
61. Yup - Buccees! yum, yum I always stop there, they have the cleanest bathrooms too. -eom
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #57
66. They also have them at truck stops in San Bernadino County
course this is CA so I know we are so much more "elite" here than other parts of the USA. :sarcasm:
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bigbrother05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #66
73. Guess that's so the glitteratti can get a have a cup while the driver fills the limo
on their way to Palm Springs (Vegas?).
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. Heh Yeah
that's probably the reasoning. ;-)
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #57
77. Sign on fishing village store on Oregon coast--
Live bait and espresso
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thevoiceofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. Bullshit - I've never had the urge to have a latte
And to me, Clinton is deplorable. Barack speaks to hunters. And Christians.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. Here are real people in Pennsylvania that show this for the pile of crap it is:
Ted Alter, State College

Westmoreland County Commissioner Tom Bayla, Greensburg

Mayor John Brenner, York

Lloyd Casey, West Chester – President, Pennsylvania Forestry Association

Mayor John Fetterman, Braddock

Mayor Rick Gray, Lancaster

Scott Harrison, Warriors Mark

State Representative Bryan Lentz, Swarthmore

State Senator Sean Logan, Monroeville

Carl Majji, Claysville – Corporal, U.S. Army

Mayor Thomas McMahon, Reading

State Senator Bob Mellow – Pennsylvania Senate Democratic Leader

U.S. Representative Patrick Murphy, Doylestown – U.S. Congressman (PA-08)

Perry County Commissioner Steve Naylor, New Bloomfield

Lackawanna County Commissioner Corey O'Brien, Dunmore

Fran Rodriquez, Lancaster

State Representative Josh Shapiro, Abington – Deputy Speaker, Pennsylvania House of Representatives

Major General Walter Stewart, Berks County – Former Commander, 28th Infantry Division, Pennsylvania Army National Guard

State Representative Dan Surra, St. Marys

State Representative Thomas Tangretti, Greensburg

Lackawanna County Commissioner Michael Washo, Scranton

I suggest you read this... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5484461&mesg_id=5484461

I think I value their opinion slighlty more than WhiskeyTangoFoxtrotOscar
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TML Donating Member (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. You've got it wrong
I carry a lunch bucket because I don't have $2k or more lying around to pull on Howard Dean's chain to tell him to swing the election to my candidate.

Hillary's donors are the Caviar & Wine Democrats!
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union_maid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
10. Oh, give me a break
If Democrats keep labeling people what hope is there for anyone. I'm 58, suburban, female, white, brown bag lunch every day, don't drink lattes and I voted for Obama back on Super Tuesday and events since then have only made me firmer in my conviction that of the two candidates left in the race he's by far the better choice. You can keep your demographics.
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redstate_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. You really want us to read this dissertation?
:rofl:

Basically, you have that new disease going around called D.E.S.P.E.R.A.T.I.O.N. The cure is OBAMA.

Defending
Egotistical (and)
Sleazy (and)
Pandering
Elitist
Republican lite
Apostates
Truly
Indicates
Obstinate
Neurosis

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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
13. Hmmm... a bogus RW meme about Progressives and a derogatory name for...
...blue collar Dems. Cute.

NGU.


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IntravenousDemilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
15. I can't stand the taste of coffee, yet I'm ultra-progressive. What does that make me? n/m
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. If you're a "progressive" who doesn't care about working people, then you're still a "latte liberal"
Imo, of course. :hi:
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IntravenousDemilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Well, IMO...
The very essence of progressivism is caring about working people. I'd be a piss-poor socialist if I didn't care.

But I still find coffee pretty vile. Gimme a beer any day. :D
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bigbrother05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #15
58. Maybe an Earl Grey Dem?
My favorite hot beverage, if you don't count Gluhwein.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
16. K & R!
You took some time to develop and write this and made very important points.

"Without the black vote Obama would not have a prayer. It carried most of the south for him and almost did in Hillary in TX. Hillary was saved by one of the stronger and expanding sets of the lunch-bucket crowd: the Latinos. Look at the statistics of all the people who are part of the middle-income cohort, the Latinos are least economically secure. They are middle-income but not yet middle class. These are the people who broke massively for Clinton. The question is, why is the great unifier not getting through to these voters? Why is Hillary better able to communicate to these voters? With the economy as the major issue in the 2008 election Obama better find the answer to the riddle of the lunch bucket set. Once again, just like with Bush the elder it could be “it’s the economy stupid” all over again."
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
20. How about Democrats vs Republicans. No more triangulation within the party.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
24. well
Edited on Sun Apr-13-08 11:16 PM by dionysus
1) your crap title is flamebait and actually condescending, as opposed to Barack's comments
2) it's some shillbots opinion from a blog
3) you couldn't have written anything that complex so you grabbed it from a random shillbot's post


FAIL
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catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
28. I am going to take you apart....
Edited on Sun Apr-13-08 11:16 PM by catnhatnh
merely because it isn't tough...

Paragraph 1.Lying about being under fire is chaff? No it is not-perhaps you could consult a female who has been under fire since quite a few are now available.Among us guys, this is an absolute no-no....

Paragraph 2. Debatable

Paragraph 3. Republicans are more often seen in drag (see:Guliani, Rudy) but you have to admit that even we high school dropouts on SS disability have done our part to oppose her-is this an anomality or is your thesis flawed?

Paragraph 4.Fluff and nonsense accepted by the "chattering classes"???How many union cards have you held??? I've held 3 including steelworkers.

Paragraph 5.You THINK he's lying and say so-how about some proof?

Paragraph 6.I am stupid and think being black is cool.I am very rich.Wanna trade assets and obligations?

Paragraph 7.All of my thoughts are unimportant.

Paragraph 8.But never having earned over 50K a year,you will explain this to me from the wisdom of a Yale graduate corporate lawyer who laughed at an 800K payment to her husband when it was suggested that might be in conflict with her espoused view against what he was paid to support.

Paragraph 9. No-WE are not.Rock-ribbed my ass-when my country fucks my people and innocents world wide I abstain from singing the theme song.

Paragraph 10.Total muddle...on the pay of community activist, I'm gonna guess Barrack identified better than a partner in the Rose law firm.

Paragraph 11."rust belt denizens"??? Certainly SOMEONE assumed ownership.

Paragraph 12.You spelled "Reagan" wrong and assume the emotions of an electorate you don't belong to.Don't start me on dirty money-you won't like it.

Paragraph 13.You think young voters are stupid. I'm an old voter. Obama never called them "low information voters". I notice you did.

Paragraph 14.A "tabula rosa" would be a red slate-I believe you intended to say "tabula rasa" which would be a blank slate."the man gifted a freaking forest to be exact" is past my power to interpret.

Paragraph 15.So the Republicans will make the same accusations you do, but without couching them as a friendly warning.

Paragraph 16.I think he is an elitist too.

Paragraph 17.My candidate is fucked.

Paragraph 18.But I'll spin it anyhow.

Paragraph 19.If my Aunt had balls, she'd be my Uncle.If he's really so good, why are people like me still attacking him?

Pappa India Whiskey Tango Sierra Delta Sierra
(Put it where the sun don't shine)

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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. LOL, I'm assuming your response is satire.
Edited on Sun Apr-13-08 11:33 PM by zlt234
Unless you actually think that incoherently cherrypicking only the arguably weakest words or sentences out of the OP's piece makes for a credible response (including spelling mistakes???).

If so, continue your babbling. Nothing you said even attempts to counter the obvious truth: Obama is not connecting with many people who make under 50,000/year, as shown by double digit losses in that demographic primary after primary after primary.
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catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. Lol...I'm assuming you think you win a political campaign...
by posting 19 paragraphs of unsupported assertions, many of them insulting to the people you claim to "own" as your voters. My dearest dream would be to send this piece to the poster-described "low information voters" and let them see the contempt they are held in by some of Hilliary's "cognoscenti". I AM one of the low income types described and find the entire premise insulting as hell.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. If you don't like stereotyping of demographic groups,
then why don't you find Obama's stereotyping of them to be equally insulting?

Because that's Obama talking. Everything is fine when Obama talks. Not when Hillary or a Hillary supporter talks.

It really comes down to the fact that the demographic group the poster referred to is consistently voting for Hillary, and not Obama, often by double digits.
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catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #50
54. You know...
I spent well over a half hour of my time reading the original post and responding and your response was a drive-by to my 19 responses.Now you claim that all the stereotypes in the OP belong to Obama. Well-It's time to fish or cut bait...Either post links proving your assertion that Obama has used the terms in the post ("lunch-bucket democrats", "rust belt denizens" and especially "low information voters" among others) or drag ass to the stern and chop chum.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #54
63. Obama said that working class white voters cling to guns and religion
due to economic anxieties. That is broad-brush stereotyping. It is not labeling as you highlight in the OP, but it is certainly stereotyping a large group of people.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
29. well who ever wrote this sure the hell never carried a lunch box
this is one of thee most insulting posts i have seen here..if i could could type what my fellow unemployed steel mill and steel forge workers would say about this post i`d be banned.

i guess lunch bucket democrats are just a bunch of dumb fucking knuckle draggers...oh ya i hate coffee
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kwenu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
30. You are sooo full of shit.
Edited on Sun Apr-13-08 11:25 PM by kwenu
Hillary was raised as a middle class white girl in a two-parent family in Illinois who eventually went to Yale Law School where she met and married an oddly intelligent guy from Arkansas who grew up poor and was deserted by his father. Hillary doesn't know shit about the lunch bucket set and is the only candidate who whole heartedly meets every test for being called a latte sipping liberal.

Obama and Bill Clinton share far more in common in understanding the non-privileged working class than Hillary ever will. They came from it she DID NOT.

Stop the silly shit please.

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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. she was middle upper class back then
i bet her dad drove a buick
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
31. What should I tell the construction workers near work that are drinking Starbucks coffee?
Are they latte-drinkin' lunch bucket Joe Six Pack fellers?

Dimes to donuts, I doubt they'd like me putting them in a box...

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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
33. Link Please !!!
:shrug:
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cottonseed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
35. Hillary as the "blue collar" candidate is like her as the "change" candidate.
It falls flat because everyone can see through it. It won't work.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Then why does she keep having double digit wins in that demographic over and over again?
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Umbram Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. You assume way too much.
Do you think the average republican is voting out of self-interest when they vote for Repubs who lower taxes on the rich while screwing over the middle and lower classes?

Don't assume voters are all rational actors economically speaking - this goes for ALL voters.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. I'm not assuming anything. I'm simply stating a fact: Obama loses among this group in primaries
and polls. He just keeps losing that group.

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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. This attitude is part of the problem, imo.
You cannot dismiss working American's distress with the economic policies espoused by both parties, such as "free trade" and globalization as ignorance any longer.

Things have gotten way too bad for that to work any longer. The Democrats are going to have to reject rightwing economics to win these voters.
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cottonseed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #38
47. This same demographic are going to flee to McCain in the GE.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. Dup.
Edited on Sun Apr-13-08 11:34 PM by zlt234
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
37. I'm a steward on a ferry boat. I clean floor. I'm just as lunchbucket as anybody.
Don't you DARE say that Obama doesn't get working class support.

The Teamsters are Lunch Bucket Dems.
The Longshoremen are Lunch Bucket Dems.

Lunch Bucket Dems and young activists and African Americans(most of whom ARE Lunch Bucket Dems, you racist!)march for justice arm in arm across this country. Lunch Bucket Dems dream of a better world too.

You're basically saying that workers don't have souls.

And there is no excuse for anyone on DU printing a right-wing essay. You can't believe anything you said in that essay and not be a right-wing Republican. Or, worse, a Democrat for Nixon/Reagan. That is to say, a Democrat that never really WAS a Democrat.

And nobody who ever served on the board of WalMart has any right to claim to be the candidate that "gets" Lunch Bucket Dems.



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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
41. "Rock-ribbed Patriotism" means loving war and hating the world.
You can't be a "Rock-Ribbed" Patriot and have a positive vision of life.

And again, why are you posting something Pat Buchanan could've written on DU? No one who agrees with the hate in your essay.

Young activists who seek transformation have been fighting AGAINST Nafta. HRC helped bring it in. She never said a word against it WHEN IT MATTERED. She never said a word against outsourcing WHEN IT MATTERED(when Bill was cheering it on). She never said a word when the '92 Democratic platform omitted a single mention of the word "union". The couple who turned the Democrats against labor(and you know that everything that weakens unions is a defeat for all workers) have NO RIGHT to claim to be "pro-worker" now.

You are backing a candidate that doesn't want us to win. Doesn't it bother you that she prefers McCain and will lose to him if she does steal the nomination?

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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
43. Without the white vote Clinton would not have a prayer. Are you saying black votes count less if
they're for a black candidate?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
45. REC
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
51. excellent essay
I think there is a deep split in the Democratic party, and the Obama campaign has brought it to the surface. It is painful now, but this vital issue, long submerged and overdue for examination and resolution, needs to come into view, and in the long run it is a very constructive thing that it finally is. This will break up the logjam in the party, and end the confusion and frustration we have been experiencing for the last 30 years, and is the worst thing that could happen for the right wing.

There are two factions within the party that are going in opposite directions, there is no consensus, no underlying set of principles that are shared. This weakens the party and has made it impossible to form a united front to fight the political right wing.

This essay will no doubt be met with expressions of outrage and all sorts of smears and attacks because it scores a direct bull's eye on the problem, and people who are resistant to facing this will be thrown into confusion and feel a need to strike out in anger.

For those reading the essay in the OP who understand what it is saying, and who have been frustrated over the years trying to express this while being buried under an avalanche of ridicule and dismissal, don't despair. The dawn is not far off now, and the long nightmare is soon to end.
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
52. Lunch Bucket Democrats vs. Latte Sippers -- I can't think of a more idiotic wedge issue
But people manage to come up with this shit election cycle after election cycle. This is a tactic devised and honed by the GOP. Seeing it on a Dem board really calls the motives of the poster into question.

Most white-collar people I know, carry their lunch. A lot of blue collar people grab a latte on the way to work. Some moms do soccer and some don't.

Stupid stupid stupid.
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Kool Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. Thank you. My sentiments exactly.
I love it when Dems use repug talking points to attack other Dems. "Elitist", "latte-sipping". Sounds like O'Reilly or Hannity.
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catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. And never forget "low information voters"....
that they simultaneously snark at and claim as their own.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #52
70. It's all about confusing the issue so folks cant distinguish on TRADE & destruction of working class
Confusing Americans into believing that the only way to help average
income Americans "better themselves" is encouraging them to aspire
to become rich in an economy where good-paying working class jobs
have no place, are unwelcome and will not be tolerated.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
59. I found the link....Taylor Marsh's site. Are you ashamed to post it.?
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TML Donating Member (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #59
62. Elsewhere's Daughter = Marsh Guest Blogger?
Edited on Mon Apr-14-08 01:44 AM by TML
It looks like one, talks like one, writes like one...it's gotta be http://wiskeytangofoxtrotoscar.blogspot.com/2008/04/lunch-bucket-democrats-vs-latte-sippers.html">WhiskeyTangoFoxtrotOscar.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 02:00 AM
Response to Original message
64. I turn a wrench for a living. You are an idiot.
I could go on and on, but that about sums it up.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 02:00 AM
Response to Original message
65. I turn a wrench for a living. You are an idiot.
Edited on Mon Apr-14-08 02:02 AM by bhikkhu
I could go on and on, but that about sums it up.

on edit - so I punched the button twice by mistake. Worth saying twice anyway.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
67. I live in CA and yeah I like lattes so
of course (according to Hillary's slander) I think I'm better than anyone in any other part of the country. :sarcasm:

I guess it's alright for hypocrite Hillary to come to San Fracisco and other places in CA to raise her money but then to turn around and insult and riducule us. :grr:
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 03:23 AM
Response to Original message
68. Dupe n/t
Edited on Mon Apr-14-08 03:30 AM by Leopolds Ghost
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 03:29 AM
Response to Original message
69. You Lost Me at Reagan. Youre a Liar and a Fool if you believe Hillary and her beloved Reagan
...will do anything for middle-income and lower-income Americans besides
promise to retrain them to be dependent on providing services to their new
wealthy role models, after the last manufacturing job is shipped overseas.

This message is a prime example of projection on behalf of people who
regard Barack Obama as a class traitor for even PRETENDING to care about
NAFTA -- the media and the Clinton campaign being a prime example.

Like ex-leftist neocons, they project the worst traits of an inbred
cultural class -- latte sippers -- they themselves can't bear to leave
and won't dare to admit being part of in mixed company with non-elitists
like themselves -- apologetic pink tutu liberals who promise to help the
less fortunate by persuading them to accept their fate and send their kids
to good schools so they, too, might one day afford to live in a blue city
that has greened its economy by eliminating the working class entirely.

Hillary and Reagan's faction of the working class is that which wants to
eliminate the working class and escape it, not better conditions for those
within it. Their message for the American voter is an unrelenting stream
of bigotry and casuistry about how you are better than those latte sippers
who seek to keep you out of Starbucks.
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
71. I'm a lunch bucket PA Democrat for Obama.
And guess what? All my union buddies hate Hillary. Not dislike, outright hate. I try to appeal to them that any Democrat is better than McCain but to a man they do not want to vote for her. If she gets the nomination she loses, period. Not all of them like Obama either but they will suck it up and vote for him. Almost all of us wanted Edwards.
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MattBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
75. Al Gore in drag?
I knew Al Gore, and Hillary is no Al Gore.
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
76. Wow
So, if the media is out to "get" Hillary, then why do they jump on the lapel pin "issue"? Or keep talking about "controversy" surrounding the "bitter" quote? Or any one of a dozen other manufactured "controversies" regarding Obama? It reminds me of right-wingers complaining about the "liberal media." There's just nothing to back it up, and wanting it to be so does not make it so.

And perhaps you can explain to me how Obama has "never had to deal with" poor people, despite years of community work on the south side of Chicago. Maybe you could point to Hillary's vast personal experience in this matter. And why don't you ask the lunchbucket union people how they feel about NAFTA while you're at it?

Your essay is amazing - you claim "latte sippers" is divisive, yet use it liberally to smear anyone who doesn't support Hillary. You then even have the gall to go on and say that we must appeal to conservative democrats to win; not independents, not people dissatisfied with politics as usual, but people WHO PUT RONALD REAGAN IN OFFICE. Give me a break. Why don't you just come right out and say anyone on the left who has any shred of idealism should just shut the fuck up and do what the Washington consultants want them to do.

Keep trying to throw half the party under the bus, Hillary supporters. Keep browbeating anyone not on your side as an idealist, elitist asshole trying to ruin the country, and you can sit back this November and watch a divided party guarentee a McCain win.

Just curious, if Obama "can't connect" with anyone who isn't black or a granola-munching pointy-head liberal, how do you explain all of the middle-aged union guys at the Obama town hall meeting I was at this past weekend giving him standing ovations? Agents provacateur, or what?
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