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Ya know what would make me have a lot more respect for Obama?

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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:35 PM
Original message
Ya know what would make me have a lot more respect for Obama?
If he came out and gave a big speech, about the right to vote. For good measure, he should talk about the voting problems we face in this country (Diebold, cooked optical scan counters, etc.), and electoral reform he will propose as president.

But the conclusion of the speech should be, out of respect of the right to vote, which our country has worked centuries to obtain and expand, he will do everything in his power to obtain a revote in Michigan and Florida. As in, not just sitting on the sidelines and saying "we are open to whatever the DNC and the states decide," but actually calling state legislators, arranging meetings between the candidates' campaigns, the states, and the DNC, and making it happen.

He can talk about not allowing incompetent and openly defiant state leaders to disenfranchise their own electorates. If we sat back and quietly let state leaders monkey with the right to vote throughout our history, it would have taken decades longer for African Americans to get the right to vote.

He can remind us that having a revote would in no way violate any rule set up prior to the primary season. All the states would have to do is submit a new plan to the DNC in accordance with the rules, which they would then promptly ratify.

He would remind America that the Democrats are the party of democracy, and we will go through great lengths to ensure fair elections, even if some results might not benefit us.

For those who say that Hillary's intentions are suspect, or that she only started caring about this issue after their outcomes were predetermined, or that she is hypocritcal because she wants to flip pledged delegates, I don't care. Let me repeat: I don't care what Hillary thinks. She can be wrong on other issues (such as flipping pledged delegates), or wrong on not advocating for MI and FL earlier, and still be right about advocating for them now. This isn't about Hillary, or her motives. She is willing to do everything she can to get a revote, and Obama is not. If Obama would call for a revote, there would be a revote. And Obama is not calling for one. That is all that matters to me.

It is evident to some of us that Obama's supporters in MI and FL (MI especially) have gone out of their way to cherrypick reasons to shut down any effort to have a revote. This is very difficult to prove, so I am not going to argue about it. Because one thing is not arguable: Obama has not come out and openly called for a revote, and done everything in his power to make it happen. Hillary has, Obama hasn't. Period.

Until he does, I will continue to think of him as an opportunist. An opportunist that sits back while two of our biggest states are silenced, while simultaneously saying how undemocratic it would be to allow superdelegates to overrule the will of the other 48 states. An opportunist who only puts the rules up on a pedestal when they benefit him.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. And if he gave a speech...
I'm sure you'd come up with just another imaginary reason not to vote for him.
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. DING DING DING DING
we have a winner here.......
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
65. Fail
When people piss on a poster for asking for a principled stand that is truly FAIL

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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #65
81. LOL
No, failure is being suckered by the Clinton soundbite that Obama's disenfranchising voters.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
72. Precisely!!
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
75. They'd call it pandering
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
76. no, Hillary would have to admit
she can't compete with a guy who's made TWO speeches.
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. He has no power to force a revote
Both states' legislatures have said no to a revote. Obama can't change that.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Hillary's campaign was really successful in one way at least...
in getting her supporters' hopes up by spreading misinformation.
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PoliticalAmazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
67. Hillary's campaign will be a textbook on how NOT to win an election. n/t
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
79. They do like lies
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
27. Yes he can.
The legislatures said no because Obama's campaign did not agree with the rules of the revote. His campaign and his supporters in the legislature brought up complaints about allowing Dems to vote again in MI even if they already voted in the GOP primary, and they brought up security concerns in FL about the mail in vote.

But instead of working to fix the concerns, Obama supporters in the legislature used these concerns to ensure that no revote would ever happen.
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kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. b.s. - if BOTH candidates insisted on it - it would happen or the Fla. results would count.
n/t
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. MI's first plan for a re-vote was a caucus.
Guess who said that *she* wouldn't accept that?

Sorry... but not everything is as simple as you'd like to believe.
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tokenlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. The other "re-vote" plan for MI would have disenfranchised all the..
..dems who voted in the GOP primary because they were told their votes wouldn't count. I'd call that selective enfranchisement.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. That's debatable. But that's not the point.
I find it a little rediculous that you are complaining about that, when other Obama supporters are crying foul over the "Rush Limbaugh factor."

But regardless, when two sides have a minor disagreement about the process, they meet and compomise and figure it out. That is not what happened. What happened was, Obama supporters in the legislature used the dems-voting-in-the-GOP-primary excuse to completely table a revote. Not to change the rules of the revote, to completely table it. That is what Obama could have prevented if he did everything in his power to make that not happen.
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
50. There you go again pointing
the finger of blame on Obama, its all his fault even when Hillary is
trying to change the rules in the middle of the game, its Obama's
fault for not letting it happen.

Good effort though....
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PetrusMonsFormicarum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. A guest appearance on the Simpsons
They you know you've ARRIVED!
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
7. Oh, please. 'There are none so blind as those who will not see'; you're
in that category.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Not a lonely place to be these days!
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
10. Why should he go against the pledge both he and Hillary signed?
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Because there was NO PLEDGE not to have a revote. NO PLEDGE. The pledge was about no campaigning
in the early vote. Not about a revote.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. She said she knew MI's vote wouldn't count for anything.
Edited on Mon Apr-07-08 03:52 PM by jenmito
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. For the second time, that was the EARLY primary. That has NOTHING to do with proposing a revote.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. For the second time: She said she knew MI's vote wouldn't count for anything.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #25
36. She knew MI's early vote wouldn't count for anything. Not that any future MI vote wouldn't count
for anything.

Repeating the same misinformation doesn't all of a sudden make it true.
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. No one thought about any future revote, so you point is completely moot.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. Now that's some funny logic.
Aside from the fact that it is wrong (the DNC specifically said that they could reverse the penalty later if a revote or other delegate selection plan was submitted later that adhered to party rules), let's look at your logic.

Hillary said she wouldn't campaign in the early primary.

Now you are saying that because people weren't "thinking" about a revote, she actually pledged to not campaign in any revote, ever. Because people weren't "thinking" about it.

So now what a pledge/contract says depends on what we we are "thinking" might or might not occur in the future?

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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. Know how to use logic, then get back to me.
You made a very severe fallacy in your post. If you correct that, get back to me.
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PoliticalAmazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #44
68. BWA-HA! So THAT's how flip-flops are spun in HillaryLand! n/t
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #36
60. Then why do you keep repeating the same misinformation?
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. No, the pledge said no delegates. 100% of delegates STRIPPED.
Is that clear enough?
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #20
38. Please show me where the pledge even mentioned the word delegate.
Thank you.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. .
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. Again, the pledge itself did not have a word about delegates or sanctions.
It was only about campaigning. Not a word about delegates.

Prove me wrong. Don't cite some 3rd-party interpretation of the pledge, show me the actual sentence of the pledge that says anything about delegates or sanctions.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #45
55. Not a big fan of reading?
Whereas, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee will strip states of 100% of their delegates and super delegates to the DNC National Convention if they violate the nomination calendar... Therefore, I ____________, Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with DNC rules ...pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window.”
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. I was looking at a copy of pledge 2, which doesn't mention that.
But even if they signed pledge 1, the states don't "violate the nomination calendar" if they have a revote later. That's called adhering to the nomination calendar. The pledge never had anything to do with a revote, which would occur to bring states in line with the nomination calendar. Iowa had a straw poll; this didn't violate the nomination calendar because they had a legal primary later.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. True enough...
but again... Hillary has done enough vote-stopping herself... so this finger pointing nonsense is just that.
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #55
74. Awww, SNAP!!
:thumbsup: :hi:
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 05:26 AM
Response to Reply #12
80. She should have accepted the caucus plan, except she'd rather grandstand than actually have the...
states vote.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. I'm guessing: nothing
but that is only a guess.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
13. Here's some video of Hillary's varying positions on the subject:
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. You didn't seem to read my post; I said that I don't care what Hillary thinks.
As long as she is doing everything in her power to get a revote now, I don't care what her positions were at some prior point.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. But she's not. She flat-out refused MI's first plan.
Still care to continue this nonsense?
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. The ONLY reason she wants a "revote" now is because she didn't wrap it up Feb. 5th.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. Again, I don't care what her reasons are. I care that it isn't happening, and that Obama is
preventing it from happening.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. He is NOT preventing it from happening. He's following the rules. She's trying to change them.
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PoliticalAmazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
69. I see. You have as little integrity as Hillary does. I don't hink I would like HillaryLand. n/t
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
14. any respect would be more than you have
ACCEPT THIS FAKE ELECTION OR WE'LL FUCK UP THE PARTY, THE GENERAL ELECTION, THE NATION AND THE WORLD

guess what spanky, we don't negotiate with TERRORISTS

get it?
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Lol at all the drama.
You obviously didn't read anything I said, since the entire post was about a revote.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
21. FL and MI broke the rules. ALSO, Hillary planned on wrapping up the nomination on Feb. 5th;
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
73. Rules? RULES?! Wait, wait...oh, for a second I thought you were talking about Hillary there.
HAHAHHHHAAAAAAAHHAHHAAAAAAAAAA!:hi:
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Florida22ndDistrict Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
22. re: Ya know what would make me have a lot more respect for Obama?
I would respect him again if he gave that speech but instead of calling for a new vote excepted the results of the original election and pleaded to the DNC to seat us with full representation and full voting rights. If he did that then we could all move on. Clinton would not object. Florida Democrats would not object. Dean and the DNC would most likely except it being that both candidates agree. As a Florida voter I would finally feel relieved and be able to respect the democratic party again. Too bad he doesn't seem interest in that...
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kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
24. A lot of Floridians will NOT vote in the GE if they don't get a re-vote/or votes to count.
Edited on Mon Apr-07-08 03:53 PM by kerry-is-my-prez
I live here and there's a bunch of people who have told me they're not going to vote.

I probably will but I'll just vote for the other races. Maybe vote Indy. I'm thinking of going indy from now on. I had been an independent before.

I was already disillusioned with the Dem Party and the way that women are treated in the party has made me sick. They're not really pro-women.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Hillary's a sitting US senator , and was a shoo-in for the nom... but the party isn't pro-women.
:crazy:
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kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #28
42. and how many females are in the Senate? and was she REALLY a shoo-in?
The daggers were out for her...
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Does it matter how many? Does the party stop them from running?
Edited on Mon Apr-07-08 04:09 PM by redqueen
:wtf:

As for her chances... I guess you're not too big a fan of VERY RECENT history. *sigh*
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kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #43
59. That was before all the right/left media attacks - a lot of them sexist....
Hillary has been getting 24/7 attacks all along. By liberal and conservative media pundits. A lot of the so-called "liberal" attackers have been worse than the fox news attacks. At least they haven't been calling women "whores" and using terms like "pimp," etc.

It's an "old boys network."
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #24
64. Is a bunch more than 10? 20? What about the electorate that is not following he said she said?
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
26. Aaaaaaaaah, the Hillbot talking point for the day...
...Obama does not want votes to count.

:eyes:

Go away....
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Um, he doesn't. You go away.
Edited on Mon Apr-07-08 03:54 PM by zlt234
Or back up what you say.
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GarbagemanLB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. How do you feel about Hillary actively campaigning pledged delegates to disenfranchise the people th
ey represent?
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. I disagree with that, as I actually said in my OP.
Just because I disagree on one of Hillary's actions doesn't mean I don't want a revote in MI and FL.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #31
46. See the GDP board....see at least two Hillbot threads on this.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. Talking point of the month is more like it.
I'm frankly amazed the paper-thin talking point is bandied about the way it is. True Believers, I guess...
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #32
49. I'm frankly amazed that ANY member of DU would call the right to vote in MI and FL a "paper-thin"
talking point.

I really am. When I joined DU, I actually expected that people would be pretty united in not wanting to disenfranchise voters. After all, I believe DU was started in part because of Bush vs. Gore.

Only after I read some of these posts did I realize that the right to vote isn't really an issue of the Democratic party at all. It is simply used by all candidates and all parties to their advantage.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. Learn.
Edited on Mon Apr-07-08 04:25 PM by redqueen
:nopity:
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Bensthename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
33. Uhhh yahh, that's it. Obama needs to make another speach. What Ever,
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
40. What a coincidence....
You don't care what Hillary thinks and neither do I.

Gobama!!!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
47. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Raejeanowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
51. It Would Be Great If The Voters Were Heard
And the (re)vote counted. Who knows which way it would go a second time? It could run in Obama's favor, for all anyone really knows. Or more dramatically in Clinton's. That's the chance everyone would be taking, isn't it?

Frankly, I don't care what either Hillary or Barack want, or what benefits THEM; it isn't the point-tune them out. Who and whatever is to blame, voters have been disenfranchised as a result. And there may be worse to come in the GE as a result of it, unless it's resolved. That is all.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Then take this whiny BS to the state forums, cause it's the state legislatures
that made the mess, and that have had the biggest hand in letting it sit this long.
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Ronnie Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
56. So, basically, you think that Senator Obama
should actually DO something. I'd like to see that.
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JimGinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
61. The Only Way Some Of You Could Respect Him Is If He Was Married To Bill
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JimGinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
62. The Only Way Some Of You Could Respect Him Is If He Was Married To Bill
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
63. The revote costs many millions, literally
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PoliticalAmazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
66. You know what would make me have a lot more respect for Hillary?...
...if she could follow the same rules everyone else has to follow, and if she would stop grasping at these odd and twisted scenarios whereby she could win.

Who is she trying to convince? Us or herself?
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
70. He doesn't NEED to, and therefore he will not.
Photo-ops drinking a beer with the locals? Oh yeah.

Feeding a calf? Yep.

Bowling? You know it.

But to give a speech on voting in an election he is, for the moment, winning?

Why?

He is a politician, through and through.

His slogans work well enough.

Why screw with that?

Principles?

lol...
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Aussie leftie Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
71. I dont care who said what and when
The important thing is that the people of Michigan and Florida are being disenfranchised, and if they don't bother coming out and voting in the general election, I wouldn't blame them. The people of Florida must be starting to think that their state doesn't count, especially after what happened in 2000. If 4,000 Americans died in the attempt to give another country democracy in recent times, one would think that it could be put into practice at home.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
77. I'm pretty sure Obama can win Florida in a general election.
I think he would win against Hillary in a primary.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
78. Obama could do this and spend her into oblivion.
She can't afford it. She's pretending like she wants a revote but really she just wants the delegates seated as is.

Its a joke.
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FedoraLV Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
82. He didn't give a speech
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TTUBatfan2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
83. And Hillary's not an opportunist?
Edited on Tue Apr-08-08 04:57 PM by TTUBatfan2008
They're both politicians. Quit pretending that they're not part of the same hypocrisy. She claimed the "elections" would not count. It was only after she began losing the race (starting with Iowa) that she decided those states were suddenly oh-so important since conveniently she had won there. If the roles were reversed, Hillary would be doing the same shit Obama's people were doing.
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